Defining "Vanilla"

[Keroin]

That confuses the hell out of me. If people mean kinky sex, then I wish they'd just SAY kinky sex.

Why?

What does it matter?

Of course, if they are interacting directly with you and their meaning is relevant to you in a tangible way, sure. In that case, however, it would seem acceptable to ask for a more specific definition. Otherwise, why would you care?

Just curious.

 

[BiBunny]

Why?

What does it matter?

Of course, if they are interacting directly with you and their meaning is relevant to you in a tangible way, sure. In that case, however, it would seem acceptable to ask for a more specific definition. Otherwise, why would you care?

Just curious.

Because in discussions like these, it's easy to get kinda lost when you're thinking one thing and the other person means something else.

 

[Keroin]

Because in discussions like these, it's easy to get kinda lost when you're thinking one thing and the other person means something else.

But I don't think many of those people 'know' that they are only talking about kinky sex. Kind of like how someone in a new relationship will swear up and down that they are "in love" even though those in the know will easily recognize that they are still caught up in that chemical brain stew that hits everyone for the first few months.

In these discussions, I just assume that everyone has their own definition of D/s.

 

[midwestyankee]

But I don't think many of those people 'know' that they are only talking about kinky sex. Kind of like how someone in a new relationship will swear up and down that they are "in love" even though those in the know will easily recognize that they are still caught up in that chemical brain stew that hits everyone for the first few months.

In these discussions, I just assume that everyone has their own definition of D/s.

I prefer lamb stew.






Preferably docile and giving lamb, stew.

 

[ownedsubgal]

Because in discussions like these, it's easy to get kinda lost when you're thinking one thing and the other person means something else.

exactly. and it's so frustrating to really put yourself out there and offer insight, advice, etc. only to learn that nothing you've said applies whatsoever because you're coming from two entirely different galaxies yet using the same language.

it's one reason why i'll rarely come online seeking advice, even when i would really love it, because 98% of those who respond are likely to have a totally different concept of M/s...and for a good many even, M/s will mean "kinky roleplay" and they will be offended and horrified at any other concept of the term.

 

[Keroin]

I prefer lamb stew.


Preferably docile and giving lamb, stew.

Mmm, rack of lamb. It's been too long. (Feel free to let loose with bad puns about lambs on a rack, etc )

exactly. and it's so frustrating to really put yourself out there and offer insight, advice, etc. only to learn that nothing you've said applies whatsoever because you're coming from two entirely different galaxies yet using the same language.

Hm.

I expect that 95% of the advice I give in any situation will either be ignored or won't be applied, regardless of how applicable it is.

 

[Stella_Omega]

That confuses the hell out of me. If people mean kinky sex, then I wish they'd just SAY kinky sex. I don't even mean that in the "ooh, D/s is so pure and fantastic that we have to keep it up above all that dirty sex stuff" way that some folks you run across do. I just wish people would say what they mean and mean what they say!

because hetero people don't know any other term for kinky sex!

As we have seen time and time again on this board.

I've been promised a Venison roast for Xmas dinner. I love my hunter friends!

 

[Keroin]

because hetero people don't know any other term for kinky sex!

Oh please.

 

[sardoniclaugh]

What is this "vanilla" stuff and why is it such a problem?

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is the concept of a scene.
When you get a group of people together who feel marginalized and they make up a scene, there is nobody quicker to marginalize those who stand outside their scene. What starts off as open and inclusive quickly finds an orthodoxy and becomes more very closed and exclusive.
Thus, people who join together because their * preferences make them feel outside of the norm quickly start looking down their nose at people who don't share those preferences.

*this can be sex, music, cars, clothes, literature, art, religion, politics ... really anything. People form groups, and often define themselves in terms of groups, and US is always > than THEM.

 

[KoPilot]

it's one reason why i'll rarely come online seeking advice, even when i would really love it, because 98% of those who respond are likely to have a totally different concept of M/s...and for a good many even, M/s will mean "kinky roleplay" and they will be offended and horrified at any other concept of the term.

One thing I've learned is that nobody *really* wants people's advice, even when they ask for it. They're usually just fishing for support.

And pardon my ignorance, but... what would you ask about anyways? I thought seeking advice generally meant that you wanted to weigh options when it came to making a decision, either one action vs. another, or an action vs. inaction. And if you entire world revolves around your daddy, how does an outside perspective have relevance? And doesn't he make all your decisions for you?

 

[Stella_Omega]

Oh please.

I know, I'm indulging in hyperbole.

But still-- How many newbies have shown up here saying "I want kinky sex"?

They show up saying "I think I'm submissive. I really love getting spanked and having my hair pulled."

 

[ownedsubgal]

One thing I've learned is that nobody *really* wants people's advice, even when they ask for it. They're usually just fishing for support.

And pardon my ignorance, but... what would you ask about anyways? I thought seeking advice generally meant that you wanted to weigh options when it came to making a decision, either one action vs. another, or an action vs. inaction. And if you entire world revolves around your daddy, how does an outside perspective have relevance? And doesn't he make all your decisions for you?

the quest for advice, or even just some insight, is not limited to those in the midst of some decision-making process. as a human being i do have feelings, anxieties, fears, etc...it would be awesome if i could consult with other slaves about how to process those feelings or keep my head up during those rough times. it would be great to have the reminder that i'm not a horrible slave for struggling with something.

but i recognize that those folks are very few and far between...so in a public venue such as this and other lifestyle sites, it's just not worth it.

 

[ownedsubgal]

Hm.

I expect that 95% of the advice I give in any situation will either be ignored or won't be applied, regardless of how applicable it is.

that may be true, and i'm actually fine with that. but i'd at least like to know that i'm on topic.

(you also have to remember that on a message board there are always lurkers, some dealing with the same issues as the OP...if it's good advice it will be heard by someone who needs it)

 

[BiBunny]

I know, I'm indulging in hyperbole.

But still-- How many newbies have shown up here saying "I want kinky sex"?

They show up saying "I think I'm submissive. I really love getting spanked and having my hair pulled."

*Ahem* I want kinky sex!

But wait. I'm not new.

Damn.

 

[Stella_Omega]

*Ahem* I want kinky sex!

But wait. I'm not new.

Damn.

You can still have kinky sex, of course.

 

[BiBunny]

You can still have kinky sex, of course.

Yay! Thanks!

 

[Stella_Omega]

Yay! Thanks!

I wish I could have kinky sex with you.

 

[BiBunny]

I wish I could have kinky sex with you.

I'm perfectly ok with that.

 

[Keroin]

I know, I'm indulging in hyperbole.

But still-- How many newbies have shown up here saying "I want kinky sex"?

They show up saying "I think I'm submissive. I really love getting spanked and having my hair pulled."

But, again, I ask, "So what?" If that's what they think D/s is, who cares?

All that stuff I enjoy, that for years and years I thought was just "kinky sex"? Turns out it was BDSM. Who knew? And who cares? I had a good time. End of story.

Also, there is a huge spectrum of self-identified submissives here. Some are admittedly not very "submissive", at all, whereas some would submit to a coffee cup, could it speak and were it even slightly dominant. Should we tell those that fall into the former category that they are only into kinky sex?

 

[bhndblueyes88]

*Ahem* I want kinky sex!

But wait. I'm not new.

Damn.

OH OH OH! I'm new! I'm new!!

*clears throat*

I want kinky sex!!!

*beams*


*grumblemumble* but no, no I have to study PHARMACOLOGY and memorize all these stupid drugs grrrrgrumblerumblemumbler

 

[Stella_Omega]

But, again, I ask, "So what?" If that's what they think D/s is, who cares?

osg cares. She doesn't want to be talking about lifetime of True Submission to someone who only wants to learn more about bondage knots.

I care. I don't want to talk about bondage knots to someone who wants lifelong submission.

I care also because some folk come here expecting lifelong submission when all they actually want is kinky sex.

All that stuff I enjoy, that for years and years I thought was just "kinky sex"? Turns out it was BDSM. Who knew? And who cares? I had a good time. End of story.

Also, there is a huge spectrum of self-identified submissives here. Some are admittedly not very "submissive", at all, whereas some would submit to a coffee cup, could it speak and were it even slightly dominant. Should we tell those that fall into the former category that they are only into kinky sex?

Well... I do. Have done. And had some of those "submissives" agree with me.

What's with the "only?" by the way? Kinky sex is Biiiiig. And Gooood. Kinky sex is all the rest of the BDSm spectrum.

 

[Keroin]

osg cares. She doesn't want to be talking about lifetime of True Submission to someone who only wants to learn more about bondage knots.

I care. I don't want to talk about bondage knots to someone who wants lifelong submission.

I care also because some folk come here expecting lifelong submission when all they actually want is kinky sex.

Well, this is obviously a more serious matter than I'd thought. Carry on.

Well... I do. Have done. And had some of those "submissives" agree with me.

See, now I'm thinking of someone like Syd. Someone who has struggled with the submissive label precisely because of how other people want to define it. To my mind, what makes her and her partner happy is all that matters, titles be damned. But I suppose to others it does matter what she calls herself.

What's with the "only?" by the way? Kinky sex is Biiiiig. And Gooood. Kinky sex is all the rest of the BDSm spectrum.

Nothing wrong. Love kinky sex. It rocks. Remove the "only". Just trying to convey that some folks might not appreciate being told what they are or are not.

 

[ownedsubgal]

Well, this is obviously a more serious matter than I'd thought. Carry on.

i know you intended this is a sarcastic response, but for some of us it really is a serious matter. from what you've shared in the past, i gather that your primary interest in discussion boards like this one are light-hearted, non-D/s or bdsm "lifestyle" related chat. you know, the fun stuff. which is all good and more than dandy, but some people use outlets like this for serious lifestyle-related discussion and even self-reflection and discovery. from the total newbie asking, "what am i, do i fit here?" to a slave of 20 yrs seeking support and advice on dealing with the death of their Master. personally message boards like this one have been invaluable to me, as they serve as my only real opportunity to openly interact and talk with other people in the D/s lifestyle. it prevents me from getting that lonesome deserted island feeling.

so yeah, language matters. it's not about assigning labels to strangers, it's about productive communication.

 

[Stella_Omega]

...See, now I'm thinking of someone like Syd. Someone who has struggled with the submissive label precisely because of how other people want to define it. To my mind, what makes her and her partner happy is all that matters, titles be damned. But I suppose to others it does matter what she calls herself.

It matters that she knows what she means by it. But in a social setting, the more common definitions rule, regardless of what we think they should be.

And it might matter to her, in certain circumstances, if someone else has completely different assumptions, and acts on them.

Nothing wrong. Love kinky sex. It rocks. Remove the "only". Just trying to convey that some folks might not appreciate being told what they are or are not.

Some people have thanked me because they felt so inadequate because they just could not be submissive like some Dom demanded they be. They couldn't figure it out.

I don't tell people what they are or not, I offer them some more vocabulary to use in defining themselves.

 

[ownedsubgal]

I don't tell people what they are or not, I offer them some more vocabulary to use in defining themselves.

a great way of putting it, and kudos to you for being willing to do it!