bottom vs. sub?

[bhndblueyes88]

I've heard this mentioned a couple times but didn't really seem to find any threads explaining the difference? Is there really a notable difference, or is it just people trying to define things into nice pretty lines?

 

[chaosgirl42]

I don't have any idea what the answer is to this, but I hope you get one. I've been wondering what lable would apply to me (if a single one could possibly encompass all of me ) and as per general advice (Kybele and UMB in particular) I decided to check out fetlife.
Holy crap! So am I a bottom or a slave or a submissive or a masochist or what?!? What if I like more than one? How is it that community got so into lables? What am I limiting myself to by picking submissive over masochist? I mean, yes I want to be tied up and collared, but I also want to be beaten, so what the fuck?
I hope someone who knows a little more about this answers you soon

 

[Bandit58]

Oh dear it's that label thing again....

Simply put, and my opinion only (YMMV):

Bottom - someone who submits only in the bedroom/sexually. Has a safe word and limits.

Sub(missive) - Someone who submits both sexually and outside the bedroom. Usually has a safe word and limits.

Slave - Someone who submits throughout their relationship. Has no safe word and their limits are defined by their Dominant.

That's just a very broad definition. You can have many variables within the same "label". My advice - don't get caught up in trying to put a label on yourself, especially if you're new. As you explore more of the wonderful world of BDSM, you'll discover a lot about yourself you never thought you were or could be.

 

[bhndblueyes88]

I rather dislike how many people seem to want to put labels on things, but both terms are used so frequently that I wanted to make sure I was using them in sort of the "general consensus" definition so I didn't confuse or offend anyone. Proper communication and all

Also, your tribble cat causes me great amusement. Lol and I just noticed your avatar as well. It is also most excellent ^_^

 

[CutieMouse]

Bottoms generally submit in specifically negotiated ways, for specific lengths of time. Anyone can bottom - even dominants/masters/tops. Bottoming is most often a physical activity - flogging, spanking, psychodrama scene, etc.

Submissives submit. I mean it's more complicated than that, but there's a mental/emotional aspect involved that isn't necessarily present when bottoming.

The New Bottoming Book and The New Topping Book are both excellent introductions to the various styles of BDSM interaction if you want a little more researchy sort of input.

 

[rida]

To confuse a bit the waters, here are my definitions:

Bottom:
Outside of a relationship: the scope of submission is limed to the play situation and it is more often than not for their own enjoyment. Play is also often very detailed in what is and what is not allowed to happen.
Within a relationship: the power exchange is limited in scope and time. It could be because they keep it in the bedroom, or because they are switches or for any other reason that keeps it from being submission.

Submissive: mostly within a relationship.
Someone that submit to the will and desires of her Dominant. The submission is not only physical but mental as well. Can be in the bedroom only, can be 24/7 or anything in between.

Slave: only within a relationship
Total submission: serving the Master is the scope and desire of the slave. The Master's will and desires are the only one that count. 24/7, if not physically, surely mentally.

And then you have all the nuances and differences, such as toy, pet, little-girl and so forth.

As for masochist and sadist, that refers to what side of the pain you like. And you can be a masochistic Dominant or a sadistic slave.

 

[VelvetSin]

Here's a thread that went over a bunch of this labeling biz.

By the definition I go with, bottom is similar to submissive, and while they can overlap, they are not perfectly synonymous. Submissive is the term used when the mental side of an exchange takes place, and bottom is the term used when it is mostly physical. Submissive is the term applied to D/s power exchanges where dominance and submission take place, and it can include some S&M, but is mainly focused on the D/s. Bottom is the term applied to those participating in an S&M exchange that may or may not involve a bit of D/s but is mostly focused on the S&M-angle.

Working with that definition, someone can be both submissive and a bottom, or just submissive, or just a bottom.

 

[bhndblueyes88]

Thanks velvet! I somehow missed that thread when I was scanning the old threads. I'll read through that as well as people's responses here

 

[Stella_Omega]

Here's a thread that went over a bunch of this labeling biz.

By the definition I go with, bottom is similar to submissive, and while they can overlap, they are not perfectly synonymous. Submissive is the term used when the mental side of an exchange takes place, and bottom is the term used when it is mostly physical. Submissive is the term applied to D/s power exchanges where dominance and submission take place, and it can include some S&M, but is mainly focused on the D/s. Bottom is the term applied to those participating in an S&M exchange that may or may not involve a bit of D/s but is mostly focused on the S&M-angle.

Working with that definition, someone can be both submissive and a bottom, or just submissive, or just a bottom.

This is the way I define it too.

 

[chy_girl]

Submissives get in trouble for telling The Bossy One(s) to fuck off.

Bottoms, not necessarily. Especially if the bottom is The Bossy One.

 

[ecstaticsub]

Submissives get in trouble for telling The Bossy One(s) to fuck off.

Bottoms, not necessarily. Especially if the bottom is The Bossy One.

This is perfect!!! Absolutely the best definition yet.

 

[welkin]

An example I had found helpful was a dom may choose to bottom if s/he enjoys some pain, so s/he could order the sub to flog him/her, for example, but still remain in control of the play.

 

[where]

reading this, I'm wondering if I'm a bottom and not a sub. All too complicated. I'll stick with being me.

 

[chy_girl]

This is perfect!!! Absolutely the best definition yet.

Thank you. I thought it was rather succinct and to the point. And true.

*cringes at the thought of her People's reaction if she were to ever tell them to fuck off*

 

[Stella_Omega]

reading this, I'm wondering if I'm a bottom and not a sub. All too complicated. I'll stick with being me.

I think we established that, in that other thread...

The caveat would be that if calling yourself a bottom in your crowd leads to confusion, while calling yourself a sub gets you what you want? Call yourself a sub.

 

[bhndblueyes88]

Thank you. I thought it was rather succinct and to the point. And true.

*cringes at the thought of her People's reaction if she were to ever tell them to fuck off*

Oh dear lord that color is painful.

And yah. I kinda cringed too. I tend to poke and prod at my boyfriend, but I have a feeling that "fuck off" would be like stabbing a bull with a hot spork. He does not appreciate that, from anyone (not that most people appreciate being told to "fuck off" in that particular context)

 

[chy_girl]

Oh dear lord that color is painful.

And yah. I kinda cringed too. I tend to poke and prod at my boyfriend, but I have a feeling that "fuck off" would be like stabbing a bull with a hot spork. He does not appreciate that, from anyone (not that most people appreciate being told to "fuck off" in that particular context)

Knowing my People, the hot spork would go over better, I'm sure.

 

[rosco rathbone]

I don't have any idea what the answer is to this, but I hope you get one. I've been wondering what lable would apply to me (if a single one could possibly encompass all of me ) and as per general advice (Kybele and UMB in particular) I decided to check out fetlife.
Holy crap! So am I a bottom or a slave or a submissive or a masochist or what?!? What if I like more than one? How is it that community got so into lables? What am I limiting myself to by picking submissive over masochist? I mean, yes I want to be tied up and collared, but I also want to be beaten, so what the fuck?
I hope someone who knows a little more about this answers you soon

I wouldn't worry about it too much.

 

[where]

I think we established that, in that other thread...

The caveat would be that if calling yourself a bottom in your crowd leads to confusion, while calling yourself a sub gets you what you want? Call yourself a sub.

good point. I could be greedy and go for the whole switchy thing, but I suspect that I'd just fall into giggles if I ever had to try and top anyone and I know I can't dish out pain.

 

[JustaSCOUNDREL]

Why do you believe you need a label? Thoughts, ideas, wants and NEEDS can change from day to day and sometimes hour to hour. One of the favorite terms on this board seems to be "Pick Your Own Label (pyl)

Never let anyone else define you. You are exactly who you feel you are at the moment. There may a whole under-riding or overriding theme but, the moment is what is important.

My slave/wife and I are into pretty heavy BDSM. Still there times when I want something softer and/or I sense she does. Then we play that way.

No matter how we play on any single occasion it does change our relationship or how we relate to each other.

I've been doing this since 1967 off and on. Yeah, I really am that old.

So my advise is do what you want, with whoever you want, in any way you want in and to hell with worrying about how someone else will label you.

Just follow your needs and desires.

So pyl and have a good time. Enjoy the moment.

 

[chaosgirl42]

SCOUNDREL, I don't think the point was ever that he/she/it/we are uncomfortable with who we are and how we feel about that. The benefit of lables is they offer a way to present one's self to the world. The point I made was that fetlife had a bunch of different lables and if there was an "understanding" amongst others as to what a certain lable meant than I probably would want to know that before applying it to myself.
I would hope a clear headed person wouldn't feel bound by a label. And I don't think that was the question in this thread.

 

[bhndblueyes88]

It is not the question in this thread. I am not looking for my "label", not only because I know myself sufficiently to not go label-fishing, but because I detest the use of labels as if they are definitions.

HOWEVER, humans do seem to require words in order to properly communicate. Because of this, there needs to be some agreement to what a given word means for all involved parties to understand the concept being communicated.

Therefore, I wished to know what concepts this community assigns to "bottom" versus "sub", in order to best communicate my concepts in the future.

by the way, if you're one to take all the above as irritated, I am not. Just want to make that clear and that I was only trying to clarify my question ^_^

I really have no desire to ask you all who I am It's much more fun to figure it all out on my own

 

[SWinters]

Rockin' my world

I so totally this thread.

A round of kisses for the house!

 

[chy_girl]

*snip*
Therefore, I wished to know what concepts this community assigns to "bottom" versus "sub", in order to best communicate my concepts in the future.
*snip*

Dominant(s) is/are The Bossy One(s). They give directions and expect their submissive(s) to follow such directions.

Submissives are just that - submissive to their Bossy One... Mostly... there's the sammy side factor, but that's a bit of a variation.

A switch in regard to the D/s dynamic is someone who is both Dominant and submissive depending on the people involved, situation, etc. For example, my Mistress is *my* Dominant, but our Sir's submissive. My Sir, on the other hand, is about as submissive as I am dominant - not at all.

Now onto the world of play, which may or may not have anything to do with the D/s dynamic...

A Top is the one wielding the flogger/cane/whip/rope/etc. and can be either a Dominant or a submissive.

A Bottom is the one receiving the flogger/cane/whip/rope/etc. and can be either a Dominant or a submissive.

Again, a switch is either a Top or a Bottom depending on the people involved, situation, etc. Again, my Mistress is a switch. Some days she likes to Top, other days she likes to bottom. Our Sir is only a Top... The closest he's ever came to bottoming is testing the sting/force factor of a new flogger. And I'm very much a bottom. Even my service topping is restricted to things like massage because I can't cause pain for the right (*cough*legal*cough*) reasons.

So when you add the D/s parts in with the play parts it can get rather confusing. And my previous answer may have sounded like I was being a smart ass, but I was rather serious (though slightly delirious with a fever) and that's what it boils down to if you're looking for the simple definition.

 

[sardoniclaugh]

In short, ask not what your bottom can do for you, but what you can do for your bottom.