Requiem for the ellipsis...

[bronzeage]

It has finally come. After lingering near death for sometime, life support was withdrawn and the ellipsis died quietly.

The rule has always been plain and easy to understand.

"Use ellipsis marks when omitting a word, phrase, line, paragraph, or more from a quoted passage."

When improper usage becomes commonplace, it becomes proper usage. It ain't rocket science. My spell check glares at me until I insert the apostrophe between the n and the t in "ain't'. There was a time when "ain't" was the stamp of poor breeding and education.

Grammarians fought to keep ellipsis in its place, but the internet age overwhelmed them. When people found themselves speaking through keyboards, English grammar lacked a proper expression of a pause. In any face to face conversation, the faces do a lot of the talking. We say nothing and raise one eyebrow. This can be worth a paragraph or two in a chat window.

So, ellipsis was drafted, or dragged into the battle.

This morning I received the June 14th issue of the New Yorker magazine. It is there young fiction writers special issue. There are twenty fiction pieces by writers under the age of forty.

"Twenty young writers who capture the inventiveness and the vitality of contemporary American fiction."

On page sixty, I found a story titled "The Pilot" by Josh Ferris. In the second sentence of the first paragraph, I read the sentence:

He and Kate, they weren't... were they friends?

There it was. If it's in the New Yorker, it might as well be in the Harbrace Handbook.

 

[Tio_Narratore]

The ellipsis has long served to indicate the absence of a word, sentence, phrase, and more not just in quotations, but in any written record. Its use for a pause follows well from that, I think: it is a relief from a writing style that would offer the sentence "He and Kate, they weren't," he said, and then, after a pause, resumed, "were they friends?"

You see, Bronzeage, the use is the same, merely expanded in its application. And I query you then, sir writer, woulds't thou have us foreswear any and all inventions in our scrivings? Nay, I say, and nay again, for then none ever would have been "away alone along the...riverrun past Eve and Adam's from swerve of shore to bend of bay..."

 

[sr71plt]

My ellipsis is still alive and well.

And, although this New Yorker example is, technically, a misuse (gasp!), it seems to be alive and well with other writers too.

The definition you give (which, indeed, is the definition that the Chicaco Manual of Style gives, has at least one common use hidden in it). The ellipsis is proper for faltering or interrupted speech in dialogue (CMS 11.45). It isn't self-evident to me that "missing words" covers this use, but CMS seems to think it does.

The New Yorker example seems more a change of direction in thought in the dialogue, which is more properly denoted by the em dash (CMA 11.45, 6.90). But, as you have evidenced, an ellipsis is often accepted for this function.

 

[bronzeage]

The ellipsis has long served to indicate the absence of a word, sentence, phrase, and more not just in quotations, but in any written record. Its use for a pause follows well from that, I think: it is a relief from a writing style that would offer the sentence "He and Kate, they weren't," he said, and then, after a pause, resumed, "were they friends?"

You see, Bronzeage, the use is the same, merely expanded in its application. And I query you then, sir writer, woulds't thou have us foreswear any and all inventions in our scrivings? Nay, I say, and nay again, for then none ever would have been "away alone along the...riverrun past Eve and Adam's from swerve of shore to bend of bay..."

As I said, it's grammar. It ain't rocket science.

My real complaint with the ellipsis is its impotency. While our hero tries to tell us about his relationship with Kate, he may have looked away, forced his lips into a pinched smile or just shrugged his shoulders, and we would see his uncertainty. An ellipsis just isn't up to the job.

 

[Xelebes]

As I said, it's grammar. It ain't rocket science.

My real complaint with the ellipsis is its impotency. While our hero tries to tell us about his relationship with Kate, he may have looked away, forced his lips into a pinched smile or just shrugged his shoulders, and we would see his uncertainty. An ellipsis just isn't up to the job.

But often times we don't need all that information. The ellipsis tells us all that in the connotation.

 

[sr71plt]

But often times we don't need all that information. The ellipsis tells us all that in the connotation.

Oh, I agree with this. Intelligent readers like to do some thinking for themselves. I delight when I can discern the whole foundation of a character or a relationship between characters by just a clever hint given by the author by a turn of phrase or a use of punctuation like this.

 

[Huckleman2000]

As an actor learning a script, ellipses and dashes mean slightly different things. A dash (actually, two dashes or an em-dash) means that one character interrupts the other, or cuts them off. Ellipses are used when a character stops speaking or trails off of his or her own accord.

 

[driphoney]

As an actor learning a script, ellipses and dashes mean slightly different things. A dash (actually, two dashes or an em-dash) means that one character interrupts the other, or cuts them off. Ellipses are used when a character stops speaking or trails off of his or her own accord.

That's what it indicates in writing, too.

 

[sr71plt]

That's what it indicates in writing, too.

Yep, yep.

 

[bronzeage]

But often times we don't need all that information. The ellipsis tells us all that in the connotation.

Oh, I agree with this. Intelligent readers like to do some thinking for themselves. I delight when I can discern the whole foundation of a character or a relationship between characters by just a clever hint given by the author by a turn of phrase or a use of punctuation like this.

It certainly saves a lot of work for the writer.

 

[sr71plt]

It certainly saves a lot of work for the writer.

No. It gives a lot of credit to the reader for their intelligence--and gives them space to take the journey of discovery with the writer. (Trust me, it gets more publisher acceptances in the real, mainstream world then dishing it all out like pablum does.)

 

[TheeGoatPig]

As an actor learning a script, ellipses and dashes mean slightly different things. A dash (actually, two dashes or an em-dash) means that one character interrupts the other, or cuts them off. Ellipses are used when a character stops speaking or trails off of his or her own accord.

I use ellipsis for trailing off speech, as evidenced in probably over 90% of my forum posts...

And yes, I really talk like that, trailing off all of the time. It's like my brain shuts off halfway through the sentence.

And I don't use em dashes because I find them ugly.

 

[bronzeage]

No. It gives a lot of credit to the reader for their intelligence--and gives them space to take the journey of discovery with the writer. (Trust me, it gets more publisher acceptances in the real, mainstream world then dishing it all out like pablum does.)

I guess that explains the Da Vinci Code.

 

[sr71plt]

I guess that explains the Da Vinci Code.

No, it doesn't. Unless you want to be silly about this. By all means, write just as you would like to. But if you give advice that doesn't match what I see as meeting success with readers (especially paying ones), I'll say so.

 

[bronzeage]

No, it doesn't. Unless you want to be silly about this. By all means, write just as you would like to. But if you give advice that doesn't match what I see as meeting success with readers (especially paying ones), I'll say so.

The Da Vinci Code sold a lot of copies. It had a sparse style that left a lot up to the reader. It was not favored by the critics, but what do they know. Writers who sell books make more money than most critics.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

The ellipsis will never die. It's more proper function may be to indicate a lacuna, but in writing it's much more valuable as one of the few punctuation marks we have that actually indicates the emotional tone or quality of speech. (The others being the ?, the !, and the --. The interobang never having caught on.)

Lately I seem to be using it a lot in combination with the question mark to indicate the uncertain question: "And the father of your baby is...?" Distinctly different from the interrupted question: "What the--?"

The punctuation mark that's really the most in danger is the poor, misunderstood semi-colon: half comma, half colon, it's too genteel and refined for the modern rough-and-tumble prose world. One publisher I know won't accept semi-colons at all because they think they intimidate and confuse readers. They want them all replaced with em dashes.

But that statement, "It's grammar, not rocket science," kind of got me. To me, the rules of grammar are a lot more difficult and inconsistent than the laws of ballistics.

 

[Verdad]

As an actor learning a script, ellipses and dashes mean slightly different things. A dash (actually, two dashes or an em-dash) means that one character interrupts the other, or cuts them off. Ellipses are used when a character stops speaking or trails off of his or her own accord.

Doc explains it better, I think. It doesn't matter so much whether it's someone else who interrupts the character's speech; what matters is whether it's an abrupt interruption or a trailing off/unspoken suggestion.

The informal overuse on the internet aside, I find elipses a useful tool like all others and don't see that anything much has changed about them.

 

[bronzeage]

The ellipsis will never die. It's more proper function may be to indicate a lacuna, but in writing it's much more valuable as one of the few punctuation marks we have that actually indicates the emotional tone or quality of speech. (The others being the ?, the !, and the --. The interobang never having caught on.)

Lately I seem to be using it a lot in combination with the question mark to indicate the uncertain question: "And the father of your baby is...?" Distinctly different from the interrupted question: "What the--?"

The punctuation mark that's really the most in danger is the poor, misunderstood semi-colon: half comma, half colon, it's too genteel and refined for the modern rough-and-tumble prose world. One publisher I know won't accept semi-colons at all because they think they intimidate and confuse readers. They want them all replaced with em dashes.

But that statement, "It's grammar, not rocket science," kind of got me. To me, the rules of grammar are a lot more difficult and inconsistent than the laws of ballistics.

Semicolons have found new live as emoticons, ;p ;D ;o

A few years ago, I was trying to explain a very old DOS file system to someone in a chat window. When I typed the DOS command, it turned into a smiley.

English grammar is the bastard stepchild of Latin grammar. When educated people began to write in English, they shoe horned the poor Anglo-Saxon tongue into a Roman sandal.

 

[Tio_Narratore]

Semicolons have found new live as emoticons, ;p ;D ;o

A few years ago, I was trying to explain a very old DOS file system to someone in a chat window. When I typed the DOS command, it turned into a smiley.

English grammar is the bastard stepchild of Latin grammar. When educated people began to write in English, they shoe horned the poor Anglo-Saxon tongue into a Roman sandal.

It was standard practice, and even stranger since the Romans modeled their grammar on the Greek. My favourite is the Aranda grammar written by the Australian missionary T. G. H. Strehlow. It slavishly followed his Latin Grammar book, where chapter 6 was The Verb "to be". Chapter 6 of his Aranda grammar was the same, and had but one sentence: "There is no verb 'to be' in Aranda." It sure helps us understand a language to know what it would be had it been something else.

 

[bronzeage]

It was standard practice, and even stranger since the Romans modeled their grammar on the Greek. My favourite is the Aranda grammar written by the Australian missionary T. G. H. Strehlow. It slavishly followed his Latin Grammar book, where chapter 6 was The Verb "to be". Chapter 6 of his Aranda grammar was the same, and had but one sentence: "There is no verb 'to be' in Aranda." It sure helps us understand a language to know what it would be had it been something else.

Working in other languages always helps one to understand their a little better.

To translate the sentence, "Shall we light a fire?" one has to find a verb which means "ignite" and not "illuminate". Then you have to put it in the form of a question.

 

[Tio_Narratore]

Working in other languages always helps one to understand their a little better.

To translate the sentence, "Shall we light a fire?" one has to find a verb which means "ignite" and not "illuminate". Then you have to put it in the form of a question.

Unless, of course, that question is a variant form of "Come on, baby, light my fire"...

 

[bronzeage]

Unless, of course, that question is a variant form of "Come on, baby, light my fire"...

Then, you would be looking for the imperative form, if there was one.

 

[Tio_Narratore]

Then, you would be looking for the imperative form, if there was one.

"...if there were one", Bronzeage; let's not lose the subjunctive!

No, I wouldn't be looking for the imperative. I suggested it might be a variant, in this case, an interrogative. The point was that "light a fire" has a romantic and erotic meaning in English that it might not have in another language. To translate the denotation rather than the connotation might not give the same results.

 

[bronzeage]

"...if there were one", Bronzeage; let's not lose the subjunctive!

No, I wouldn't be looking for the imperative. I suggested it might be a variant, in this case, an interrogative. The point was that "light a fire" has a romantic and erotic meaning in English that it might not have in another language. To translate the denotation rather than the connotation might not give the same results.

Of course. One would have to translate the literal sentence, "Start the process of sexually exciting me," while a literal translation would yield, "Approach and ignite my oven."

The English language is a minefield of metaphors(there's another one).

 

[ExoMani]

The reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated.

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