The 'ethics' of casual 'bdsm'

[BLoved]

you are such a fucking idiot.

No wonder your "beloved" left you.

It's funny that I nailed exactly what was going to happen after only one post from her and yet you completely missed it during your "weeks" of getting to know each other.

Seems I knew your "beloved" better than you.

~smile~

Its ok.

~pats your head~

Sometimes "Love" can blind a person.

You are getting repetitious.

As the excerpt from my essay indicates, I was well aware of the risk I was running.

I placed my trust in the lady's words. It is called an "act of faith".

 

[seela]

It might help if you were to provide a link to these laws of yours.

It appears you are talking about a curfew for those under 18.

I am unaware of any law that keeps 16 year olds out of restaurants and cafes after 9-10 PM.

I also have my doubts about restaurants and cafes hosting a public casual 'bdsm' event involving exhibitions for the benefit of 200+ people off the street, so I am not sure how relevant these claims are either.

Here you go. The age of consent is 16 all way around here, except if the other person is in a position of authority, ie. doctor, teacher etc. over the other one. Then the age of consent is 18.

And I'm not talking about a curfew. People under the age of 18 are kicked out of places that serve any alcohol at 9 or 10. I can't remember which one it is, anymore, because it's been a while since I've been kicked out for that reason.

Here most BDSM events are actually held in bars and restaurants. Lately there have been events in places like theaters and warehouses, but even those maintain the 18 year age limit. And yes, they do enforce the rule. I was denied entry when I was 19, because I didn't have any suitable ID on me.

But it is clear that you have made up your mind on BDSM communities. I bow out.

 

[seela]

I've provided the link to Wiki's list of states and their ages of consent. That list includes the laws that apply to age of consent. There are no restrictions listed regarding porn stores or bdsm events Ages of consent in North America: United States - Wikipedia

Might it be that here are no restrictions to that vein because a different law is applied on those cases? The age of consent only deals with who is allowed to have sex with whom. Going to a porn store or a bdsm event isn't having sex. It's going to a place.

 

[Daddy2mylilgirl]

You are getting repetitious.

As the excerpt from my essay indicates, I was well aware of the risk I was running.

I placed my trust in the lady's words. It is called an "act of faith".

Blind faith led to you missing out on your "beloved's" greatest needs and issues.

Its ok.

~pats head~

Jump back on CollarMe and you'll find a new "beloved" in no time. This time really listen to her. Get to know her better. And maybe this one will actually last.

~smile~

 

[Bette_coquette]

Is this the never-ending thread?

 

[BLoved]

Is this the never-ending thread?

~smile~

So it would appear.

 

[BLoved]

Here you go. The age of consent is 16 all way around here, except if the other person is in a position of authority, ie. doctor, teacher etc. over the other one. Then the age of consent is 18.

And I'm not talking about a curfew. People under the age of 18 are kicked out of places that serve any alcohol at 9 or 10. I can't remember which one it is, anymore, because it's been a while since I've been kicked out for that reason.

Here most BDSM events are actually held in bars and restaurants. Lately there have been events in places like theaters and warehouses, but even those maintain the 18 year age limit. And yes, they do enforce the rule. I was denied entry when I was 19, because I didn't have any suitable ID on me.

So they are not banned from public casual 'bdsm' events because of their age.

They are banned because the events are being held in establishments where alcohol is served, and being underage they're not allowed in such establishments.

And presumably once these events occur in establishments that don't serve alcohol, they will be able to attend them.

 

[intothewoods]

Since we're quoting from Wikipedia, here is an excerpt from the entry on BDSM:

Parties and clubs

BDSM parties are events on which BDSM practitioners and other similarly interested people meet in order to communicate, share experiences and knowledge, and to "play" in an erotic atmosphere. The parties show similarities with ones in the dark culture, being based on a more or less strictly enforced dress code; most often frivolous clothing made of latex, leather or lacquer (vinyl, PVC), lycra etc., emphasizing the body's shape and the primary and secondary sexual characteristic. The requirement for such dress codes differ. While some events have none, others have a policy in order to create a more coherent atmosphere and to prevent voyeurs from taking part.[54]

At these parties, BDSM can be publicly performed on a stage, or more privately in separate "dungeons".[55] Sexual intercourse is only rarely seen, and almost taboo within most public play spaces. A reason for the relatively fast spread of this kind of event is the opportunity to use a wide range of "playing equipment", which in most apartments or houses is unavailable. Slings, St. Andrews crosses (or similar restraining constructs), spanking benches, and punishing supports or cages are often made available. The problem of noise disturbance is also lessened at these events, while in the home setting many BDSM activities can be limited by this factor. In addition, such parties offer both exhibitionists and voyeurs a forum to indulge their inclinations without social opprobrium. In order to ensure the maximum safety and comfort for the participants certain standards of behavior have evolved, these include aspects of courtesy, privacy, respect and [Safeword|safewords] among others.[9] Today, BDSM parties are taking place in most of the larger cities in the western world.

In some cities there are specialized BDSM clubs with a more or less structured program schedule, in which theme parties alternate with topic-free "play evenings", similar to the business concepts of more conventional nightclubs. Social control of these parties and/or in the clubs is far higher than in a normal discothèque. Consensuality in the public BDSM sessions is strictly monitored and enforced. Apart from commercial events there are also privately organized or only moderately profit-oriented parties, which are organized by BDSM groups and individuals. Minors are not allowed at parties or clubs, even though intercourse and drinking are usually not found in these parties.

(emphasis added)

Link here.

 

[BLoved]

Might it be that here are no restrictions to that vein because a different law is applied on those cases? The age of consent only deals with who is allowed to have sex with whom. Going to a porn store or a bdsm event isn't having sex. It's going to a place.

If someone wants to provide a link to such a law ...

 

[BLoved]

Since we're quoting from Wikipedia, here is an excerpt from the entry on BDSM:



(emphasis added)

Link here.

Sounds good, but given the evidence of immature and irresponsible behaviour in this discussion, can we have any confidence these words have anything to do with reality?

 

[Daddy2mylilgirl]

If someone wants to provide a link to such a law ...

Its called being a minor.

Anyone under the age of 18 can not be exposed to anything of a sexual nature. It is illegal.

Age of consent has no bearing on that.

 

[intothewoods]

Its called being a minor.

Anyone under the age of 18 can not be exposed to anything of a sexual nature. It is illegal.

Not exactly.

 

[Daddy2mylilgirl]

Sounds good, but given the evidence of immature and irresponsible behaviour in this discussion, can we have any confidence these words have anything to do with reality?

Because in reality the organizers (and possibly people at the event) would be arrested and charged with endangering the welfare of a minor. (just to name one possible charge)

They also could be charged with a sex crime depending on the circumstances. If convicted they might have to register as a sex offender. Their neighbors would be notified that they are a sex offender, the type of crime committed, and where they live. They might have to move if they live too close to a school. They will have to register on a website where anyone can check to see where they live, what type of crime they committed, what they look like, and where they work.

All this because they allowed a 16yo into their party.

So, I think it is safe to say that they will try damn hard to make sure everyone coming into an party will be of legal age.

 

[Daddy2mylilgirl]

Not exactly.

How so?

 

[BLoved]

Its called being a minor.

Anyone under the age of 18 can not be exposed to anything of a sexual nature. It is illegal.

Age of consent has no bearing on that.

"The ages of consent in North America for sexual activity vary by jurisdiction.

"The age of consent in Canada is 16 and all US states set their limits between 16 and 18."

-- Wikipedia: Ages of consent in North America


Canada
For all provincial laws (such as alcohol and tobacco regulation), the provincial and territorial governments have the power to set the age of majority in their respective province or territory, so as such, the age varies across Canada. Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Quebec, and Prince Edward Island have the age set at 18, while in British Columbia, Ontario, Yukon Territories, Northwest Territories, Nunavut, Newfoundland, Nova Scotia, and New Brunswick the age of majority is 19.[1]

For Federal Law (Criminal Code, Voting, etc.), the age of majority is 18.[2]

Main article: Youth Criminal Justice Act
-- Wikipedia: Minor (law)

Care to provide a citation to support your claim?

 

[intothewoods]

I like the law too, but a lot of the time the answer is found in plain old common sense. Someone hosting a party where people are beating each other is not going to let someone under 18 in. No one wants the potential risk or liability.

 

[intothewoods]

How so?

Anything of a sexual nature? Minors can check out books with sexual themes. PG-13 films sometimes have sexual themes -- there is just no nudity or less nudity.

As far as what is allowed in a private party or hotel event, it all depends on the laws in that jurisdiction. For a hotel event, the hosts will have to follow whatever they agreed to in their contract with the hotel.

 

[intothewoods]

Sounds good, but given the evidence of immature and irresponsible behaviour in this discussion, can we have any confidence these words have anything to do with reality?

Because it's a wikipedia entry. Not a post on a porn forum.

 

[CutieMouse]

And unless you are actually monitoring everything that happens at these events, the best we can say is that you attend them.

What's good for the goose, is good for the gander.

BL, unless you are actually monitoring everything that happens at every BDSM event worldwide (munch, seminar, public play party, private play party, online message board, PM exchange, and public board exchange) - the best you can say is you attended.

So by your own argument, you are unable to accurately state what happens at BDSM based events.

 

[Daddy2mylilgirl]

Anything of a sexual nature? Minors can check out books with sexual themes. PG-13 films sometimes have sexual themes -- there is just no nudity or less nudity.

As far as what is allowed in a private party or hotel event, it all depends on the laws in that jurisdiction. For a hotel event, the hosts will have to follow whatever they agreed to in their contract with the hotel.

I meant sexual nature as in porn, showing nude pics, sex acts in front of minor, physical nudity in presence of minor, etc.

 

[Daddy2mylilgirl]

"The ages of consent in North America for sexual activity vary by jurisdiction.

"The age of consent in Canada is 16 and all US states set their limits between 16 and 18."

-- Wikipedia: Ages of consent in North America


Canada
For all provincial laws (such as alcohol and tobacco regulation), the provincial and territorial governments have the power to set the age of majority in their respective province or territory, so as such, the age varies across Canada. Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Quebec, and Prince Edward Island have the age set at 18, while in British Columbia, Ontario, Yukon Territories, Northwest Territories, Nunavut, Newfoundland, Nova Scotia, and New Brunswick the age of majority is 19.[1]

For Federal Law (Criminal Code, Voting, etc.), the age of majority is 18.[2]

Main article: Youth Criminal Justice Act
-- Wikipedia: Minor (law)

Care to provide a citation to support your claim?

Pornographic materials may not be made available to minors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pornography_by_region#Americas

In the United States as of 1995, minor is legally defined as a person under the age of 18

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minor_(law)

 

[WriterDom]

BSDM dungeon rules are usually posted online. I could post links all night long to events that don't allow anyone under 18, 19, or 21 to the venue. If you find one that welcomes 16 year olds then let us know.



Tomorrow you might as well state that there are human sacrifices and cannibalism going on. We can't prove that there isn't. Common sense would say there is not.

 

[BLoved]

I meant sexual nature as in porn, showing nude pics, sex acts in front of minor, physical nudity in presence of minor, etc.

So at 16 you can legally have sex, but you cannot be exposed to sex or nudity?

How does that work?

 

[BLoved]

BSDM dungeon rules are usually posted online. I could post links all night long to events that don't allow anyone under 18, 19, or 21 to the venue. If you find one that welcomes 16 year olds then let us know.

I'd be very surprised if I did, just as I'd be very surprised if the American government admitted to torture.

Propaganda is one thing, reality is another.

Tomorrow you might as well state that there are human sacrifices and cannibalism going on. We can't prove that there isn't. Common sense would say there is not.

~smile~

I'm sure that might be expected of me, but I am trying to address the 'ethics' of casual 'bdsm' in a responsible manner.

On the other hand, a casual player did accuse me of cannibalism once ...

 

[BLoved]

What's good for the goose, is good for the gander.

BL, unless you are actually monitoring everything that happens at every BDSM event worldwide (munch, seminar, public play party, private play party, online message board, PM exchange, and public board exchange) - the best you can say is you attended.

So by your own argument, you are unable to accurately state what happens at BDSM based events.

My objections to casual 'bdsm' are based on an analysis of the no-strings-attached paradigm, which is the essence of casual 'bdsm'.

I'm not claiming to be a witness to all events everywhere.

That doesn't stop people like Netzach and seela from making claims that would require them to have witnessed all events everywhere.