The 'ethics' of casual 'bdsm'

[Keroin]

Actually, I clicked on a few links scattered throughout, and the ones that were obviously started by BL (apparently formerly known as LoveIsAllYouNeed) are FetLife dead links. Which leads me to believe Mr. BL saved the titles and original links to everything thread he started, which leads me to believe there is an ego of mass proportions at play here.

BTW, if there's another explanation, I'm open to hearing it.

Bored, lost, angry, damaged, lonely...very, very lonely.

 

[WriterDom]

As to all of those links above -- that's a lot of time to spend engaging with people one considers akin to heroin addicts.

http://fetlife.com/groups/14/group_posts/136428

I guess he did wear out his welcome by spamming the same thing all over FetLife. I don't blame them. He took very limited information, his view of one munch, and one dungeon visit, and extrapolated it to the entire bdsm world.

He gets banned not for his opinion but for spam. When he does get banned then that fits nicely into his conspiracy theory.

Get some new material Bloved.

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

Actually, I clicked on a few links scattered throughout, and the ones that were obviously started by BL (apparently formerly known as LoveIsAllYouNeed) are FetLife dead links. Which leads me to believe Mr. BL saved the titles and original links to everything thread he started, which leads me to believe there is an ego of mass proportions at play here.

BTW, if there's another explanation, I'm open to hearing it.

Yeah, I got the same, when I wasn't getting server errors.

Then I remembered, being banned = deletion of all your crap.

I'd agree with your beliefs though.

 

[00Syd]

http://fetlife.com/groups/14/group_posts/136428

I guess he did wear out his welcome by spamming the same thing all over FetLife. I don't blame them. He took very limited information, his view of one munch, and one dungeon visit, and extrapolated it to the entire bdsm world.

He gets banned not for his opinion but for spam. When he does get banned then that fits nicely into his conspiracy theory.

Get some new material Bloved.

Wacky.

 

[Etoile]

It's called a blog. Nobody can ban you, nobody can downvote you, and you can even disallow comments. Enjoy.

 

[chy_girl]

So, is anyone else wondering if maybe he wasn't banned so much as chose to delete his profile at FetLife? Kind of like he did with his writing here? And then decided to play the victim?

 

[minx1]

Again - the vast majority of people you are insulting and arguing with are in long term, committed, monogamous, relationships that are not casual. The vast majority of people you are insulting and arguing with are not involved in the public "scene". The vast majority of the people you are insulting and arguing with are sincerely concerned with ensuring that those who DO choose to be non-monogamous or meet people face to face do so as intelligently as possible (meaning well educated). For example, I can't think of a single person on this board who would support a woman from an abusive background choosing a lifetime commitment to someone she met at CollarMe, after knowing the man [primarily online] for three weeks. I am sincerely glad that is working for y'all, but IMO it was an unwise and unsafe decision.

Thanks for making this point CM. I kept thinking...who the hell are these casual bdsmers he keeps referring to here?!

This thread is exhausting.

 

[rida]

Thanks for making this point CM. I kept thinking...who the hell are these casual bdsmers he keeps referring to here?!

This thread is exhausting.

Hint: everybody but him and his beloved.

 

[chy_girl]

Thanks for making this point CM. I kept thinking...who the hell are these casual bdsmers he keeps referring to here?!

This thread is exhausting.

We are. Every one of us. Because we're here. Even the one's who are with life partners and the one's who don't practice BDSM any more. And if a PYL in a committed, monogamous relationship goes to a local expert in, oh, fire play to learn how to set their pyl on fire without permanent damage or death... They're unethical, abusive predators too.

Nice to see you back, btw.

 

[chy_girl]

Hint: everybody but him and his beloved.

And the masses of lurking, abused, scared subbie-girls who don't know that they're in need of saving from the rest of us who are on the prowl for fresh meat to feed to the big, mean PYL's... Otherwise known as his imaginary friends.

 

[Bandit58]

Thanks for making this point CM. I kept thinking...who the hell are these casual bdsmers he keeps referring to here?!

This thread is exhausting.

LOL...Sir and I are in a long term committed relationship too, but because we sometimes include a third (woman), who is there precisely because she wants to be, we are classed as "casual bdsmers"

In fact bdsm is rarely included in these encounters. My fem friend is vanilla, and we engage in vanilla sex. I've jokingly offered to put her in the restraints attached to our bed, but she's refused

We're all (well) over the age of consent, anything engaged in is done consensually, I certainly am not being abused in any way shape or form and neither is the other person involved.

Methinks BLoved has a big case of "white knight syndrome" but none of us here want or need to be rescued

 

[BLoved]

That's interesting to me, because what I've seen from your various threads is a refusal on your part to clearly define "ethical" BDSM.

On Ethics

"Behave towards others the way you would want them to behave towards you, were the situation reversed."

Seems pretty straight-forward, doesn't it?

What about this one?

"Others will behave towards you the way they expect you to behave towards them."

You won't see that one written down anywhere, but it is nonetheless true.

There are those who expect the best in others, and do their best to offer the same.

And then there are those who expect the worst in others, and will do their best to meet their needs anyway they can.

One might generalize these two concepts as "Cooperation" and "Competition".

Cooperation seeks to harmonize relationships so that all may meet their needs and all may benefit.

Competition seeks private profit without regard for the consequences to others.

Each is a paradigm through which each individual makes choices.

The nature of each individual can be determined by their concern for the consequence of decisions to others.

Cooperation demands concern.

Competition scorns it.

________________________________________

The Ethics of BDSM

There is no concept more essential to BDSM than "Consent".

Without consent BDSM is assault, rape, forcible confinement, kidnapping ...

There are no doubts about this. For BDSM to be "consensual" it must depend upon "consent".

But how does one define "consent"?

For some, it is enough to show up at the door.

For others, it requires lengthy negotiations and a signed agreement.

It can be many different things to different people.

As one might expect, those who choose Cooperation and those who choose Competition have very different ways of looking at this.

Cooperation

Because the focus of Cooperation is that all needs are met and all benefit, those who follow this path concern themselves with issues such as competency.

It is not enough to say "Yes". For a yes" to have meaning, it must be the result of an informed consideration from a competent mind.

The individual must understand what they are agreeing to, and must be in a sober, adult state of mind.

This automatically invalidates consent from children, and adults with afflictions that affect their capacity to judge for themselves the consequences of their decisions.

It also invalidates the consent of those who have no idea what they are getting into. If they are unaware of the risks, they cannot make an informed decision for themselves.

Cooperation requires all of these assessments take place, so as to ensure that all will indeed benefit.

And even so, despite all of these precautions, problems can arise.

I will discuss more of that in "Living with Trauma: Cycles of Self-Destruction".

Competition

Because the focus of Competition is personal gain, without concern for the consequences of others, "consent" becomes a vague and nebulous concept.

Whatever definition is applied, it will serve the needs of the one seeking consent, not necessarily the one who gives it.

And this does not apply just to the idea of consent, it applies to all activities.

If one is willing to play fast and loose with consent, what is one willing to do when it comes to limits and safewords?

What about health and safety concerns?

Again, none of these are concerns for the one seeking consent.

His concern is his own personal gain.

He has no concern for the consequences to those he uses to get what he wants.

His is a strictly cost/benefit mentality. The less he can put in and the more he can get out, the better.

This is not an individual who is going to get to know the submissive, whether he gives that appearance or not. He doesn't want to know her. He wants to use her.

As long as she is willing to be used, he is happy. If she becomes unwilling, he will find another.

His concern is only for his own personal gain.

________________________________________

Love and Fear and BDSM

By now it will be obvious that those who focus on Cooperation act from Love. The degree to which they love isn't an issue, they love to some degree to care for the well-being of others.

And because they care for the well-being of others, health and safety risks are minimized, as are the risks that limits and safewords will be ignored.

This approach also recognizes the value of after-care.

Those who focus on Competition act from Fear. Their focus on personal gain without concern for others is a result of their fear they live in a dog-eat-dog world, and that if they don't grab what they want, they will never get it as no one will cooperate and give it to them.

For them it is 'use or be used'.

That some of them can cooperate in casual groups does not alter this.

Dogs hunt in packs yet will fight for the spoils.

Yet Love and Fear do not act on the domly types alone. They also motivate the submissives.

Some submissives give because the Love within them for another inspires them to give.

Some submissives give out of fear that if they don't they will not be loved, accepted, desired.

The one who loves is concerned for how her behaviour benefits another. Cooperation.

The one who fears is concerned for how her behaviour benefits herself (that others benefit is the cost she must pay to get what she wants). Competition.

The consequences for these couplings depends very much on the nature(s) of those involved.

The very best combination (and the one I seek) is a Cooperative Dom with a Cooperative submissive. Both are thinking of the well-being of the other.

The very worst combination is the Competitive Dom with a Competitive submissive. Her need for approval is a terrible weapon in the hands of a selfish dom. Simply by grinding down her self-respect he can make it impossible for her to leave. Those familiar with the symptoms of spousal abuse would recognize this relationship as being very similar.

With either of the other two combinations, there is an opportunity for healing, and an opportunity for abuse.

A Cooperative dom with a Competitive submissive can offer the submissive the experience that helps her overcome her low self-esteem. On the other hand the submissive can be emotionally abusive and drain the dom.

A Competitive dom with a Cooperative submissive has a chance to physically and emotionally abuse the submissive. Her need to heal the pain that caused his fear can lead her to return repeatedly and tolerate much before the abuse reaches a point where she cannot return. On the other hand, her love could be what he needs to turn his back on fear.

To the degree we believe in the best in others we will be inclined towards provide loving cooperation and will expect to find the best in others.

To the degree we believe in the worst in others we will be inclined towards taking what we want out of fear that no one will love us enough to give us what we want.

Love or Fear, we exist under the sway of one or the other.

Never both.

Self-Respect

Self-respect means to have a healthy concern for your well-being: mental, physical, emotional, and for those who believe in it, spiritual.

It means to take care of yourself, embrace healthy choices and reject unhealthy ones.

It means to be truthful with one's self. To be completely candid. To recognize the consequences for one's decisions and to accept responsibility for those consequences. Not just the consequences as they affect you, but also as they affect others involved.

This is not about how others see you. It is not about flattery or delusions of grandeur.

This is about you taking care of you. A quiet, calm, fair assessment.

That which promotes self-respect is healthy.

That which inhibits self-respect is unhealthy.

To the degree one exhibits these qualities is the degree to which one feels self-respect, and thus the degree to which one can feel and express love towards another.

To the degree one lacks these qualities is the degree to which one feels a lack of self-respect, and thus is susceptible to control by Fear.

Abuse

Abuse is the process of inhibiting self-respect.

The more one believes they are deserving of mental, physical, emotional and/or spiritual degradation, the more inhibited self-respect will be, and thus the greater the abuse done.

This is not a natural condition. Babies are not born believing this.

People are taught to believe this about themselves.

Considering we are all born with an aversion to such treatment, shunning away from it being a natural response, the fact someone believes themselves deserving of nothing better is evidence of past abuse.

At some point she was taught to expect no better treatment, to tolerate the treatment she got ... to see herself "deserving" the abuse.

Whether a submissive is predisposed to abuse because of past abuse, or whether she is unable to see that the dom she loves is incapable of giving love back, either in the hands of a Competitive dom will find his needs are met better the more they inhibit their self-respect.

The longer this goes on, the greater the damage done to their self-respect.

Living with Trauma: Cycles of Self-Destruction

As was described in the previous section, past abuse can predispose a submissive to accept more abuse.

This is not inevitable. Love has a healing quality when it comes to abuse.

Whether the love of one person can heal the abuse suffered by another very much depends on the individuals and the degree to which Love and Fear motivates them.

But there is no cure for abuse but Love.

Love helps to restore self-respect.

Love provides a solid foundation from which one can determine what is real, what is flattery, and what is delusion.

Love does not deceive.

But for those who do not find love, and for those combinations of people where the love of one was insufficient to overcome the fears of the abused, there continues this diminished sense of self-respect.

In their need for relief, they seek solace in the arms of others. But in allowing themselves to be used for the sake of the illusion of being desired they further undermine their self-respect.

Some, convinced they are not doing enough to be desirable, seek to go further, casting off limits if need be, ignoring safety concerns and pushing themselves to the brink of extinction, emotionally if not physically as well.

It is a vicious cycle which, if not stopped, eventually leaves the submissive incapable of accepting love, pushing away anything that looks like love.

After so much abuse, she simply no longer believes in it, or no longer believes herself worthy of it.

She may well go to the extreme of only seeking out situations where there is no chance of Love entering her world.

Jaded and calloused, she may even join in the abuse of others.

After so much abuse, the ability to relate to the feelings of others grows numb.

Just as it does for the domly types who abuse others.

________________________________________

________________________________________

The Case for Love

Love strengthens self-respect, in the lover and the one loved.

Love respects consent and the lack of consent.

Love tolerates no deception.

Love is patient and thorough.

Love never places a beloved at risk.

Love delights in the sharing of discovery and exploration.

Love needs no previous experience.

Love heals.

Love has meaning, not just for one night, but night after night after ...

Love isn't lonely.

Love is much more than lust.

Love challenges us to be our best, because it demands of us that we care for another as much as we care for ourselves.

As we would not deny ourselves our best, so too do we not deny our best to those we love.

To be our best we must be willing to grow, to learn, to explore and discover, always respecting our selves and each other.

Love offers all of this to those who have the courage to believe in themselves, to respect themselves, to respect others.

Love offers itself to those who turn their backs on Fear.

Love offers itself to those who choose to be what they were born to be.

Human.

-- Excerpt from "Casual 'BDSM' and Emotional Abuse: The Case for Love"

----

Promises to Live By

I will hope for the best from you.

I will have faith in you.

I will believe you.

I will trust you.

I will respect you.

I will discuss with you.

I will listen to you.

I will teach you.

I will learn from you.

I will cherish you.

I will care for you.

I will heal you.

I will need you.

I will be there for you.

I will stand up for you.

I will understand you.

I will love you ...

... Always ...

 

[BLoved]

Actually, I clicked on a few links scattered throughout, and the ones that were obviously started by BL (apparently formerly known as LoveIsAllYouNeed) are FetLife dead links. Which leads me to believe Mr. BL saved the titles and original links to everything thread he started, which leads me to believe there is an ego of mass proportions at play here.

BTW, if there's another explanation, I'm open to hearing it.

Perhaps things have changed on FetLife, but at the time I was posting there was no way to track a member's contributions.

As I was seeking my Beloved at that time, I included links to everything I contributed as a means of providing anyone interested with a complete disclosure of my thoughts on a variety of topics.

I also included links to discussions which I thought contributed to my arguments regarding casual 'bdsm'.

As the FetLife volunteer who was responsible for investigating any complaints about me had grown quite sympathetic to my situation, aware that I was to be banned merely because I challenged casual players to justify their lack of ethics when it comes to bdsm, I was provided with a heads-up regarding my impending banishment so that if there was anything I wrote which I wanted to save, I could do so before everything I'd written was erased (deletion of all material contributed by a banned member was standard policy).

So I saved all material from my profile, which included the links I'd provided.

Seems strange, considering some have claimed I was never banned, that when I provide evidence to prove otherwise, I then get accused of excessive ego.

 

[BLoved]

http://fetlife.com/groups/14/group_posts/136428

I guess he did wear out his welcome by spamming the same thing all over FetLife.

As anyone who used FetLife at the time knows, there are hundreds if not thousands of discussion groups, many of which touch on the same or similar topic.

I distributed "Casual 'BDSM' and Emotional Abuse: The Case for Love" widely, as I believed then and still believe now the message contained is relevant to anyone seeking love, and anyone unaware of the lack of ethics involved in casual 'bdsm'.

I don't blame them. He took very limited information, his view of one munch, and one dungeon visit, and extrapolated it to the entire bdsm world.

First off, casual 'bdsm' isn't even part of the bdsm world. It is a set of dysfunctional attitudes and behaviours more akin to abuse.

Second, the best argument against casual 'bdsm' was, and still is the online behaviour of players and their advocates. Their immature and abusive behaviour was and still is the best evidence of the 'ethics' of casual players and their advocates. That they are willing to portray themselves so poorly in public spoke volumes regarding the 'ethics' they practiced in private.

This discussion is another fine example of this problem.

He gets banned not for his opinion but for spam. When he does get banned then that fits nicely into his conspiracy theory.

Except for the fact there was no rule regarding the posting of the same essay to various discussion groups, thus I could not be banned for that reason:

Hey - i am planning to respond to your letter in more detail - but
wanted to hit the 'p.s.' right away - .... absolute credit... as i
said in my letter - i kind of like you - and unfortuantely although an
adult website there is a lot of childish behaviour out ther, and
although thought provoking and intellectual - people really don't like
hearing the truth.... hence why you may rub them the wrong way - and
yet not officially warned due to the fact that you're not ACTUALLY
breaking a rule.... so total credit..... and on a side note - there is
a lot of bashing and provocation you've ignored to walk that fine
line.... in fact

as you mentioned in your note about the bbw group - when researching
and looking into it, i found you weren't insulting anyone, and yet
someone had an OUTWARD attack on you.... troublesome - but thank you
for ignoring it - and if you DO feel the need to report them, i can
talk to them, but can't do anything without a report (only becuase we
do not go trolling for people 'breaking the rules' we want people to
be able to speak and talk as though big brother isn't watching
over..so yea, anyways, ) total props to you my friend.... and i'll
respond to the letter more specifically shortly

Keep on spanking,

The FetLife Caretaker Team

Get some new material Bloved.

The material I post serves its purpose well. No need to re-invent the wheel.

 

[BLoved]

Hint: everybody but him and his beloved.

Considering the behaviour of casual players and their advocates, those who practice love-based bdsm have no need to engage in discussion here or on any of the major 'bdsm' websites.

Doesn't mean they don't exist. Just means they don't need a bunch of overgrown juvenile delinquents screaming abusive insults every time they post.

I'm the exception, in that I recognize that for an insult to have merit, the insulter would have to be someone whose ethics I respect.

As none of those who have posted fit that category, insults are like water off a duck's back when it comes to me.

Being intelligent, articulate and having more than a little experience with the victims of casual 'bdsm' I am willing to keep this discussion going for the benefit of those who are unaware of the unethical nature of casual 'bdsm', and the immaturity of players and their advocates.

I am sure those who wish to avoid abusive individuals can readily recognize all the red flags and will take the appropriate action.

 

[BLoved]

We're all (well) over the age of consent, anything engaged in is done consensually

Heroin addiction is a consensual act.

Doesn't make it a healthy choice.

 

[rida]

On Ethics

"Behave towards others the way you would want them to behave towards you, were the situation reversed."

Seems pretty straight-forward, doesn't it?

What about this one?

"Others will behave towards you the way they expect you to behave towards them."

You won't see that one written down anywhere, but it is nonetheless true.

There are those who expect the best in others, and do their best to offer the same.

And then there are those who expect the worst in others, and will do their best to meet their needs anyway they can.

*snip*
.

So you have been insulting everyone because you expected everyone to insult you.

And you called their words insulting (with or without merit), because that was your expectation.

Got it.

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

So you have been insulting everyone because you expected everyone to insult you.

And you called their words insulting (with or without merit), because that was your expectation.

Got it.

/hijack

Hot new av, btw, rida

/endhijack

 

[BLoved]

So you have been insulting everyone because you expected everyone to insult you.

And you called their words insulting (with or without merit), because that was your expectation.

Got it.

~smile~

As I recall, I was shown what kind of behaviour to expect here when I first started posting.

That doesn't mean someone can't come along and surprise me with behaviour more mature than the others. I tend to focus more on such individuals, and enjoy the exchanges (such as when Etoile and I exchanged our PoVs regarding same-sex marriage).

Those who approach in a mature and civil manner can expect the same from me.

Those who don't are more likely to be added to my pin-up gallery of typical casual players and their advocates.

 

[TypicalDeviant]

Those who don't agree with you automatically support your opposition?

You're delusional.

 

[LaRocha]

I support whoever the opposition is to BLoved/LoveIsAllYouNeed.

 

[BLoved]

Those who don't agree with you automatically support your opposition?

Either you believe casual 'bdsm' is emotionally abusive, or you don't.

If you don't, you are opposed to my position and thus either a casual 'bdsm' player, or someone who believes there is nothing wrong with it (aka an "advocate").

You're delusional.

~smile~

Then you and your friends have helped build one of the largest threads currently going simply to tell readers I am "delusional".

Congratulations, that and a buck gets you a coffee.

 

[BLoved]

I support whoever the opposition is to BLoved/LoveIsAllYouNeed.

Predators, abusers, frauds, overgrown juvenile delinquents ...

 

[LaRocha]

Predators, abusers, frauds, overgrown juvenile delinquents ...

It's funny you should use these labels, as they are precisely what psychologists using the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders used to classify BDSM practitioners up until the 1990's at least.

 

[BLoved]

It's funny you should use these labels, as they are precisely what psychologists using the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders used to classify BDSM practitioners up until the 1990's at least.

Considering how private those of us who are love-based can be, I'm not surprised.

Casual 'bdsm' is the public image of bdsm, just as the gay bath-houses were the symbol for homosexuality for many many years.

I've had more than a few people tell me how they didn't understand bdsm until they read my story and essays.