BLoved
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2010
- Posts
- 1,457
The 'ethics' of casual 'bdsm'
- Thread starter BLoved
- Start date
Lizzie_Borden
Real & Spectacular
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2008
- Posts
- 4,157
rida
rope grupie
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2007
- Posts
- 4,823
when it comes to insults, I recall being told that I do know nothing about love, I have low self-esteem and that I'm dysfunctional, immature and that I belong to a mob of predators that are only out to abuse the novices.
I did not call you a predator. I just pointed out that many of your arguments and attitudes are often associated with a predatory behavior.
D
Daddy2mylilgirl
Guest
Oh I saw. That bitch is crazy Bweezy.
Be careful she doesn't stab your ass with a rusty spoon one day.
the captians wench
sewing wench
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2005
- Posts
- 12,258
Okay, Like I mentioned in my first post I didn't follow the two threads prior to this so maybe this has been answered but I'm going to ask anyway.
Bloved, if your experience with "the casual comunity" was on collarme and fetlife and other boards, why exactly did you come here and start these "ethics" questions?
Bloved, if your experience with "the casual comunity" was on collarme and fetlife and other boards, why exactly did you come here and start these "ethics" questions?
BLoved
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2010
- Posts
- 1,457
lol
You know, you folk really need to get together and figure out what your story is.
First you're worrying about her, now you're worrying about me.
~smile~
BLoved
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2010
- Posts
- 1,457
Okay, Like I mentioned in my first post I didn't follow the two threads prior to this so maybe this has been answered but I'm going to ask anyway.
Bloved, if your experience with "the casual comunity" was on collarme and fetlife and other boards, why exactly did you come here and start these "ethics" questions?
Because the other sites practice outright censorship.
This site merely sanctions the misuse of the rating system.
eastern sun
hungry little creature
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2005
- Posts
- 2,703
The First Elegy
Who, if I cried out, would hear me among the angels' hierarchies?
and even if one of them pressed me suddenly against his heart:
I would be consumed in that overwhelming existence.
For beauty is nothing but the beginning of terror, which we are still just able to endure,
and we are so awed because it serenely disdains to annihilate us.
Every angel is terrifying.
And so I hold myself back and swallow the call-note of my dark sobbing.
Ah, whom can we ever turn to in our need?
Not angels, not humans, and already the knowing animals are aware
that we are not really at home in our interpreted world.
Perhaps there remains for us some tree on a hillside, which every day we can take into our vision;
there remains for us yesterday's street and the loyalty of a habit so much at ease
when it stayed with us that it moved in and never left.
Oh and night: there is night, when a wind full of infinite space gnaws at our faces.
Whom would it not remain for--that longed-after, mildly disillusioning presence,
which the solitary heart so painfully meets.
Is it any less difficult for lovers?
But they keep on using each other to hide their own fate.
Don't you know yet?
Fling the emptiness out of your arms into the spaces we breathe;
perhaps the birds will feel the expanded air with more passionate flying.
Yes--the springtimes needed you. Often a star was waiting for you to notice it.
A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past,
or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing.
All this was mission. But could you accomplish it?
Weren't you always distracted by expectation, as if every event announced a beloved?
(Where can you find a place to keep her, with all the huge strange thoughts inside you
going and coming and often staying all night.)
But when you feel longing, sing of women in love; for their famous passion is still not immortal.
Sing of women abandoned and desolate (you envy them, almost)
who could love so much more purely than those who were gratified.
Begin again and again the never-attainable praising; remember: the hero lives on;
even his downfall was merely a pretext for achieving his final birth.
But Nature, spent and exhausted, takes lovers back into herself,
as if there were not enough strength to create them a second time.
Have you imagined Gaspara Stampa intensely enough
so that any girl deserted by her beloved might be inspired by that fierce example of soaring,
objectless love and might say to herself, "Perhaps I can be like her?"
Shouldn't this most ancient of sufferings finally grow more fruitful for us?
Isn't it time that we lovingly freed ourselves from the beloved and,
quivering, endured: as the arrow endures the bowstring's tension,
so that gathered in the snap of release it can be more than itself.
For there is no place where we can remain.
Voices. Voices. Listen, my heart, as only saints have listened:
until the gigantic call lifted them off the ground;
yet they kept on, impossibly, kneeling and didn't notice at all: so complete was their listening.
Not that you could endure God's voice--far from it.
But listen to the voice of the wind and the ceaseless message that forms itself out of silence.
It is murmuring toward you now from those who died young.
Didn't their fate, whenever you stepped into a church in Naples or Rome,
quietly come to address you?
Or high up, some eulogy entrusted you with a mission,
as, last year, on the plaque in Santa Maria Formosa.
What they want of me is that I gently remove the appearance of injustice about their death--
which at times slightly hinders their souls from proceeding onward.
Of course, it is strange to inhabit the earth no longer,
to give up customs one barely had time to learn,
not to see roses and other promising Things in terms of a human future;
no longer to be what one was in infinitely anxious hands;
to leave even one's own first name behind,
forgetting it as easily as a child abandons a broken toy.
Strange to no longer desire one's desires.
Strange to see meanings that clung together once, floating away in every direction.
And being dead is hard work and full of retrieval before one can gradually feel a trace of eternity.
Though the living are wrong to believe in the too-sharp distinctions which
they themselves have created.
Angels (they say) don't know whether it is the living they are moving among, or the dead.
The eternal torrent whirls all ages along in it, through both realms forever,
and their voices are drowned out in its thunderous roar.
In the end, those who were carried off early no longer need us:
they are weaned from earth's sorrows and joys,
as gently as children outgrow the soft breasts of their mothers.
But we, who do need such great mysteries,
we for whom grief is so often the source of our spirit's growth--:
could we exist without them?
Is the legend meaningless that tells how, in the lament for Linus,
the daring first notes of song pierced through the barren numbness;
and then in the startled space which a youth as lovely as a god has suddenly left forever,
the Void felt for the first time that harmony which now enraptures and comforts and helps us.
Rainer Maria Rilke
Who, if I cried out, would hear me among the angels' hierarchies?
and even if one of them pressed me suddenly against his heart:
I would be consumed in that overwhelming existence.
For beauty is nothing but the beginning of terror, which we are still just able to endure,
and we are so awed because it serenely disdains to annihilate us.
Every angel is terrifying.
And so I hold myself back and swallow the call-note of my dark sobbing.
Ah, whom can we ever turn to in our need?
Not angels, not humans, and already the knowing animals are aware
that we are not really at home in our interpreted world.
Perhaps there remains for us some tree on a hillside, which every day we can take into our vision;
there remains for us yesterday's street and the loyalty of a habit so much at ease
when it stayed with us that it moved in and never left.
Oh and night: there is night, when a wind full of infinite space gnaws at our faces.
Whom would it not remain for--that longed-after, mildly disillusioning presence,
which the solitary heart so painfully meets.
Is it any less difficult for lovers?
But they keep on using each other to hide their own fate.
Don't you know yet?
Fling the emptiness out of your arms into the spaces we breathe;
perhaps the birds will feel the expanded air with more passionate flying.
Yes--the springtimes needed you. Often a star was waiting for you to notice it.
A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past,
or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing.
All this was mission. But could you accomplish it?
Weren't you always distracted by expectation, as if every event announced a beloved?
(Where can you find a place to keep her, with all the huge strange thoughts inside you
going and coming and often staying all night.)
But when you feel longing, sing of women in love; for their famous passion is still not immortal.
Sing of women abandoned and desolate (you envy them, almost)
who could love so much more purely than those who were gratified.
Begin again and again the never-attainable praising; remember: the hero lives on;
even his downfall was merely a pretext for achieving his final birth.
But Nature, spent and exhausted, takes lovers back into herself,
as if there were not enough strength to create them a second time.
Have you imagined Gaspara Stampa intensely enough
so that any girl deserted by her beloved might be inspired by that fierce example of soaring,
objectless love and might say to herself, "Perhaps I can be like her?"
Shouldn't this most ancient of sufferings finally grow more fruitful for us?
Isn't it time that we lovingly freed ourselves from the beloved and,
quivering, endured: as the arrow endures the bowstring's tension,
so that gathered in the snap of release it can be more than itself.
For there is no place where we can remain.
Voices. Voices. Listen, my heart, as only saints have listened:
until the gigantic call lifted them off the ground;
yet they kept on, impossibly, kneeling and didn't notice at all: so complete was their listening.
Not that you could endure God's voice--far from it.
But listen to the voice of the wind and the ceaseless message that forms itself out of silence.
It is murmuring toward you now from those who died young.
Didn't their fate, whenever you stepped into a church in Naples or Rome,
quietly come to address you?
Or high up, some eulogy entrusted you with a mission,
as, last year, on the plaque in Santa Maria Formosa.
What they want of me is that I gently remove the appearance of injustice about their death--
which at times slightly hinders their souls from proceeding onward.
Of course, it is strange to inhabit the earth no longer,
to give up customs one barely had time to learn,
not to see roses and other promising Things in terms of a human future;
no longer to be what one was in infinitely anxious hands;
to leave even one's own first name behind,
forgetting it as easily as a child abandons a broken toy.
Strange to no longer desire one's desires.
Strange to see meanings that clung together once, floating away in every direction.
And being dead is hard work and full of retrieval before one can gradually feel a trace of eternity.
Though the living are wrong to believe in the too-sharp distinctions which
they themselves have created.
Angels (they say) don't know whether it is the living they are moving among, or the dead.
The eternal torrent whirls all ages along in it, through both realms forever,
and their voices are drowned out in its thunderous roar.
In the end, those who were carried off early no longer need us:
they are weaned from earth's sorrows and joys,
as gently as children outgrow the soft breasts of their mothers.
But we, who do need such great mysteries,
we for whom grief is so often the source of our spirit's growth--:
could we exist without them?
Is the legend meaningless that tells how, in the lament for Linus,
the daring first notes of song pierced through the barren numbness;
and then in the startled space which a youth as lovely as a god has suddenly left forever,
the Void felt for the first time that harmony which now enraptures and comforts and helps us.
Rainer Maria Rilke
Etoile
Mod, 2003-2015
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2000
- Posts
- 17,049
Why don't you complain to Laurel? I'm sure she'd love feedback from her users.
TypicalDeviant
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2006
- Posts
- 716
CutieMouse
Meticulously Flighty
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2004
- Posts
- 8,493
Dude. It might be worthwhile taking a bit of time getting to know one's audience before making such wide sweeping statements.
Due to discussions had while continuing therapy after my decision to leave the marriage, we approached custody from a practical standpoint rather than treat the children as pawns like so many divorcing couples do.
As the one with the college degree, better work schedule (HS Physics & Chemistry teacher), and desire to eventually remarry (he did so last summer - lovely woman; the children adore her)... he's their primary parent; I have them every other weekend. I am incredibly proud of how much he grew up and tuned in once I removed myself from the marriage, and while he doesn't do things the way I would, the children all have a great relationship with their father as well as a loving adult network consisting of their stepmother, myself, and several close family friends.
What was it you were assuming about my ex-husband being "emotionally incapable of raising" his children, again?
Lets be somewhat civilized and not play the who was more abused game here, shall we? There's no guarantee she will win... (Again - might want to get to know your audience before making sweeping statements.) IMO someone who has suffered that degree of dysfunction has no business going back to it - especially if they are young (no idea her age, but your beloved strikes me as being somewhat younger?), or have just made a life decision the abusers might disagree with (like shacking up with a guy they met online), or don't have the skills therapy gives one to deal with the experience of returning to "the lion's den". I would have insisted on going as well, but that's just me.
Again (God I feel like a broken record) one can have deep emotional caring relationships and bonds with other human beings ("love" for lack of a better word) without it being a life long "True Love" until death do us part experience. That's the part that keeps getting at me... the idea that anyone who doesn't commit to spend their entire lifetime with one person isn't experiencing love.
I am of the opinion that it takes more than three weeks to "Love" someone. I've done that in the past, with mixed results (lovely children/miserable marriage; initially fabulous relationship with a lover which became a destructive, emotionally abusive, manipulative disaster). If you want to walk that path - rock on, you are welcome to run your life as you see fit and again I am very happy you have your lover.
I have learned that *for me* loving quickly isn't wise. So I enjoy the moment. Enjoy the warmth, companionship, respect... every single thing you describe in your relationship - without the big huge TRUE LOVE neon sign hanging over our heads. So one might argue that it isn't that I have lost my faith in love - I have simply chosen a different path, language, embodiment of "love" than you. Of course, since the facts of my experience (a caring, mature, respectful, emotionally supportive, deepening friendship without the "L" word) don't mesh with your hypothesis (It must be lifetime True Love from the word go)... I anticipate you will find a way to discount or deflect my reality. You'll say I'm too defensive, or protest too much, or can't possibly understand love because of XYZ history you know nothing about...
And there are a lot of people here who don't share your view of True Love (TL = lifetime commitment), yet haven't given up on caring, giving, respectful, compassionate, intimate relationships - as friends, lovers, family, etc. It's like if someone doesn't believe in "TL" as defined by BL, they are incapable of love, period, and therefore must be abused/have a history of abuse/have all sorts of issues/etc.
You repeatedly state in this thread and others that people who don't experience relationships as you define them have self-esteem issues. You assume anyone who operates their relationship differently than you is incapable of forming healthy emotional bonds. You have talked of people who practice relationships differently than you doing so because they feel they don't deserve any better. According to your own words, any intimate relationship that is not based in True Love [til death do us part] is emotionally unhealthy behavior.
After reading pages and pages and pages of your statements that anyone who doesn't operate under "True Love" is emotionally damaged, has self-esteem issues, is incapable of love period, can't form healthy human connections, is self-destructive, etc - and then you topped the whole shebang off with comments about how this state of being was the result of abuse... I chose to sum all that up with the phrase "broken emotionally crippled individual".
BLoved
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2010
- Posts
- 1,457
Then said Almitra, Speak to us of Love. And he raised his head and looked upon the people, and there fell a stillness upon them. And with a great voice he said:
When love beckons to you, follow him,
Though his ways are hard and steep.
And when his wings enfold you yield to him,
Though the sword hidden among his pinions may wound you.
And when he speaks to you believe in him,
Though his voice may shatter your dreams
as the north wind lays waste the garden.
For even as love crowns you so shall he crucify you. Even as he is for your growth so is he for your pruning.
Even as he ascends to your height and caresses your tenderest branches that quiver in the sun,
So shall he descend to your roots and shake them in their clinging to the earth.
Like sheaves of corn he gathers you unto himself.
He threshes you to make you naked.
He sifts you to free you from your husks.
He grinds you to whiteness.
He kneads you until you are pliant;
And then he assigns you to his sacred fire, that you may become sacred bread for God's sacred feast.
All these things shall love do unto you that you may know the secrets of your heart, and in that knowledge become a fragment of Life's heart.
But if in your fear you would seek only love's peace and love's pleasure,
Then it is better for you that you cover your nakedness and pass out of love's threshing-floor,
Into the seasonless world where you shall laugh, but not all of your laughter, and weep, but not all of your tears.
Love gives naught but itself and takes naught but from itself.
Love possesses not nor would it be possessed;
For love is sufficient unto love.
When you love you should not say, "God is in my heart," but rather, "I am in the heart of God."
And think not you can direct the course of love, for love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
Love has no other desire but to fulfill itself.
But if you love and must needs have desires, let these be your desires:
To melt and be like a running brook that sings its melody to the night.
To know the pain of too much tenderness.
To be wounded by your own understanding of love;
And to bleed willingly and joyfully.
To wake at dawn with a winged heart and give thanks for another day of loving;
To rest at the noon hour and meditate love's ecstasy;
To return home at eventide with gratitude;
And then to sleep with a prayer for the beloved in your heart and a song of praise upon your lips.
-- Kahlil Gibran, "The Prophet"
Last edited:
Stella_Omega
No Gentleman
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2005
- Posts
- 39,700
Ah, but I don't recognise that someone has a right to be a racist and I don't respect that opinion-- and I am honest about that.
Once you understand that you will not be able to change the minds of a group of people, why keep hammering at them? You have had your say. A couple of people have even agreed with parts of your opinion, and the rest have been insulted by your sweeping generalisations, and have told you so.
At which point you tell them that they are abused or abusive, deluded, or insulting you. None of which are the actions of someone who really does respect other people's choices.
You do NOT respect other people's opinions or choices-- and comparing a woman's choice to be a sub in a BDSM lifestyle to racism is proof of that.
You have no idea how much self deception is evident in your posts.
To the rest of the people here, I want to say that I have been impressed by the quality of thought some of the posts have shown, and their authors ought to get together and copy them out-- they are worth saving!
D
Daddy2mylilgirl
Guest
Please feel free to quote where I labeled your beloved a "broken emotionally crippled individual".
I was only stating my opinion and giving advice trying to help.
You even conceded that:
So why say that I tried to do that?
My opinion?
You are nothing more than a manipulative, controlling, possessive, and abusive Dom. You tell your beloved that you and your "Love" are the only things that will help her. You want her to believe that no one else cares about her. It makes it easier for you to treat her like shit, abuse her, and isolate her.
She has stated herself that she believes your "Love" could fix her of all her problems and has done a better job than going to see a professional.
Why?
Maybe because you found a vulnerable, abused, and emotional scarred sub to sink your claws into. You pumped out your "True Love" diatribe until she gave in and started to believe it herself.
Disagree? Then why can't you concede even the slightest of ground in your "True Love" discussion?
Because in order to con, manipulate and control you must never give up or give in. You have to stay strong in order to grind down the will or resistance that someone might put up.
I see from this that you've done a good job wearing her down and convincing her the "True Love" way is the only way for her. You already have her ready to "attempt death" rather than live without you. Bravo.
And as for the whole allowing her to go back and why would you do that if you were possessive, it's very simple. You let her go back and she realizes that you are right, no one else cares about her and that you are the only one that does. It only strengthens your grip on her. And to her, it looks like you're just being a helpful and good guy.
Agree or disagree. Respond or don't. Have your beloved come to defend you or not. ~smile~ or don't.
I don't care.
I only know that now when a novice sub or someone new to the lifestyle reads this thread they will see you for who you truly are. They'll see just how "helpful" you are trying to be.
And please don't flatter yourself by thinking it took me this long to figure you out. I knew exactly what you were around your 20th post. I was just waiting for your true colors to come out.
I really hope I am wrong about you, but I doubt it. Hopefully your beloved can see you for who you truly are and escape your grasp before you can inflict too much damage.
Last edited by a moderator:
TypicalDeviant
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2006
- Posts
- 716
Shame, too. That was a good post.
BLoved
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2010
- Posts
- 1,457
You continue to confuse posters for readers.
The latter is a much larger subset of the audience than the former.
BLoved
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2010
- Posts
- 1,457
Indeed.
D
Daddy2mylilgirl
Guest
Hit a little too close for home?
EDIT: I just noticed what you did there. Clever little boy.
By minimizing my reply to what you quoted:
You can now continue your "see? no one else wants to help you my beloved. I'm all you have." manipulation.
Very clever.
Last edited by a moderator:
Homburg
Daring greatly
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2007
- Posts
- 13,578
All jokes aside, the more I read of this tale, the more disturbed I am by what I am reading.
I feel sorry for both of you. I honestly do. I still think you're a twit, but I can pity twits just fine without respecting them.
I hope your life improves.
I feel sorry for both of you. I honestly do. I still think you're a twit, but I can pity twits just fine without respecting them.
I hope your life improves.
Stella_Omega
No Gentleman
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2005
- Posts
- 39,700
Not so much, this thread is getting about ten views per post. And since there has been some thirty people that have participated here, not even one third of them have been checking in with any regularity.
I don't think you're reaching many lurkers.
rida
rope grupie
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2007
- Posts
- 4,823
I probably need to apologize to you.
My appreciation of your logical post caused you to be lumped with the mob and accused of seeking its approval.
Sorry about that.
(I never for a moment thought I could be considered as one of the "regulars" ...)
TypicalDeviant
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2006
- Posts
- 716
Well, if he's dating, er, in True Love(TM) with, Elizabeth Smart, Jaycee Lee Dugard, Elisabeth Fritzl, or Natascha Kampusch he might win, if that's what you'd want to call it. Other than that, I'm going to have to agree with you here.
BLoved
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2010
- Posts
- 1,457
Doodles, there are many people who care for her and want to help. She talks with them nearly every day.
You flatter yourself if you think you were so convincing as to be included amongst them.
Similar threads
