Are You a Burden to Society?

[DeeZire]

Can any of us admit to being a burden to society? Take Amicus for example. Here is a guy who, on the one hand, preaches self-reliance, but on the other hand, has no qualms about collecting his lucrative Medicare windfall after NOT paying taxes for 40 years.

Or what about seniors in general? It is estimated that 70% of Medicare dollars will be spent during the last six months of life. How many seniors will outspend their Medicare tax contributions, never even considering the option of refusing profound measures to extend their doomed lives by an extra month or two?

How many seniors who are financially secure will decline their SS money so that the less fortunate can benefit from the program while it’s still viable. And then what? How do we keep SS and Medicare viable when the cost curve is heading in the other direction?

What about the chronically obese? They cost the whole system money with their preventable health problems. The same could be said for smokers, heavy drinkers and drug users.

Then you’ve got your run-of-the-mill criminals and welfare queens. Should we put them all to work, harvesting crops and such - doing those low wage jobs that normally go to illegal immigrants?

The disabled pose an interesting dilemma. Of course, veterans of the armed forces should be given a life of dignity after their sacrifice, but what about the “Trigg Babies” - those with birth defects that were known to the mother before giving birth. Are they the responsibility of the individual who made the decision to carry them to term, or do we, as society, take care of them, regardless of their cost to the system we all pay into? Is it even a question of money, or is it a moral issue? “Trigg Babies” are considered “Ambassadors from God” by the conservative camp, even though the conservatives are the first to cut government programs that care for the “Trigg Babies” when the parents run out of resources.

We all have the potential to be a burden to society. Unfortunately, we all don’t have the awareness to realize it. The question is, how do we deal with the competing motivations of altruism and self interest?

 

[voluptuary_manque]

No, I am a bear-don on society.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Yep. I owe the county hospital something like $13,000.000 for sewing my finger back together.

I am paying it off at $50.00 per month-- in other words, not really.

And I had food stamps for about a year. My counselor got me a lot of money in food stamps, and I let her.

It felt REALLY GOOD to have access to better food for my family.

 

[stephen55]

Say it ain't so, Ami.........

Can any of us admit to being a burden to society? Take Amicus for example. Here is a guy who, on the one hand, preaches self-reliance, but on the other hand, has no qualms about collecting his lucrative Medicare windfall after NOT paying taxes for 40 years.

Before I start making my usual measured and respectful remarks, I must be certain.
Ami takes Medicare benefits!!!???
Medicare is what we have in Canada, home to cowards of the Left, morally and ethically bankrupt after sacrificing individual freedoms and personal liberties on the alter of socialism.
Does Glenn Beck know about this? (Medicare benefits....those are code words...etc. and so forth...)

Are you sure?

No taxes paid over forty years?
Does the IRS know about this?

 

[sr71plt]

[No taxes paid over forty years?
Does the IRS know about this?

Well, if he isn't lying about it, you could collect some cool change by turning him in. There's a program for that (has been for almost two centuries). And ami is fairly easy to find. He's connected his real life enough here to be fingered.

Have fun.

As far as being a burden, I think we are all a burden in terms of receiving more than we give. For all the bellyaching about taxes, there's no way any of us could live as we do if our support wasn't covered by the efficiency of costs of having everything aggregated and covered on a great-mass scale. By the same tokens most of us are also the assets that make it all possible--except maybe for deadbeats like Ami, who draw on it but don't put anything into it (by his own declaration--of course he could just be as full of hot air on this as he is about most everything else).

 

[stephen55]

I could never turn in ami. We would all lose a valued and important member of the Lit community. On the other hand, if you can have an internet connection in a US calaboose.....

Actually, I'm sure ami would be proud to go to prison for tax evasion, that is, if found guilty. Not only would it be a meaningful statement against government interference in individual freedoms and personal liberties, I've heard that a lot of American prisons are managed by private, free enterprise companies. ami could run a for-profit in house publishing company.

 

[DeeZire]

Before I start making my usual measured and respectful remarks, I must be certain.
Ami takes Medicare benefits!!!???
Medicare is what we have in Canada, home to cowards of the Left, morally and ethically bankrupt after sacrificing individual freedoms and personal liberties on the alter of socialism.
Does Glenn Beck know about this? (Medicare benefits....those are code words...etc. and so forth...)

Are you sure?

My understanding of Medicare is that it kicks in automatically at age 65. I am not sure Ami is on Medicare, but judging by his perceived age, I assume he is. Perhaps he'll grace us with his presence and explain the disconnect between his stated principals and his real-life ones.

I was hoping the discussion could wander outside the bounds of a cost benefit analysis and into the wonderful realm of the intangible. For example, does society as a whole benefit from the arts? If so, could a starving artist type of person offset their burden to society by enhancing culture with their work?

Another example was on Undercover Boss the other night. A tour guide on a river boat ride for tourists was singled out for his uncanny ability to connect with kids. His contribution to society could be joy - not something you can put a price on, but something we all need. His burden to society will be health related, since he was a couple hundred pounds overweight.

 

[sr71plt]

I was hoping the discussion could wander outside the bounds of a cost benefit analysis and into the wonderful realm of the intangible. For example, does society as a whole benefit from the arts? If so, could a starving artist type of person offset their burden to society by enhancing culture with their work?

I did suggest that almost everyone was an asset as well. Not ami, of course. I think he's a dead loss to society--goes into the negative value. A parasite and deadbeat.

 

[bronzeage]

On behalf of myself and all the other productive members of society, I would like to tell the burdens on society, you are all very welcome.

He ain't heavy, he's my brother.

 

[stephen55]

Hummm.......

Are You a Burden to Society?

Wow...I never actually thought about it. I'd like to think I wasn't when I was working as a family doc, trying so hard all year to patch up the injured, slow the ravages of over-everything, spending endless hours in Emergency, occasionally actually saving someone and generally getting so tired of it that every fall, I had to go out into the bush and Kill Something!!!

But now...no longer working, collecting my pension (self payed) and every now and then, costing the health care system some resources...maybe...(sigh)

HELL NO!! I'm not a burden!! Unless you count ranting at ami as a burden.

I can't say I'm a poor artist. I'm not a starving musician. (I've always lived in mortal fear of missing meals.) As for the cultured class of society...they've never heard of me.

I do go on road trips with local hockey, volleyball and basketball teams as the official team doc and unofficial bus driver/water boy. I do teach fly casting at our local Fish and Game Club, where I also try to teach Trap Shooting. I teach introductory visual astronomy at the local observatory. (The telescope's drive system was built around the rear end of a Ford pickup. The observatory roof was once the roof of a grain silo.) So, I like to think I still contribute to the community.

When I get frail and they park me in a home, letting me sponge off society for a while...I guess it'll all work out even.

And somewhere in the darkness, the gambler he broke even
But in his final words I found an ace that I could keep

You got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em
Know when to walk away and know when to run
You never count your money, when you're sittin' at the table
There'll be time enough for countin', when the dealin's done

From The Gambler, written by Don Schlitz.

We should all do as well.

 

[Stella_Omega]

On behalf of myself and all the other productive members of society, I would like to tell the burdens on society, you are all very welcome.

He ain't heavy, he's my brother.

 

[Carnevil9]

Excuse me if I'm wrong, but it sounds to me like the OP is claiming we are all burden's on Society in one way or another.

Everyone can't be a burden to Society. No matter how many are riding in the wagon, somebody has to be pulling the wagon, or it ain't gonna roll. To blithely declare that we are all budens somehow is the sheerest sophistry.

If you are a burden, stop trying to claim moral high ground. Somebody is paying your freight, so have some gratitude.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Being retired, I neither toil nor do I spin, and the same could be said for my wife. Except for the few dollars I pick up as a tax consultant and for the dirty stories I write, and the entertainment that some people derive from them, neither of us contributes anything. We are sustained by the pensions, including SS that we worked for throughout our working lives. The money we receive is what we put in, what our employers put in on our behalf and the interest on that money. I realize that is not exactly the way it works, which is similar to a Ponzi scheme, but let's not get too technical.

I don't think of us as burdens on Society, because we live off money we earned while working. Besides that, there are four other people almost wholly dependent on us, so we contribute there too.

We determined a while ago that Amicus is a few months older than I, making him 71, or almost 71. I don't know if he is collecting SS or not, but I suppose he is. If so, he is also covered by Medicare, which applies to those collecting SS when they turn 65. The payments are subtracted directly form his benefits. The only exception would be if he is a member of some strange religion that is opposed to such things, but I doubt that he is. Of course, if he never applied for SS, he would not be receiving it or Medicare.

We may become burdens on Society later, but we aren't yet.

 

[DeeZire]

... To blithely declare that we are all budens somehow is the sheerest sophistry....

I don't know where you got that idea Carney. I didn't say everyone is a burden to society - only those who are collecting more than they contribute. Of course, if we live long enough, we'll all be a burden on society, since SS and Medicare were not designed for a population with a life expectancy reaching into the 80's. The point is, do we face the issue now, or do we pretend it doesn't exist?

I also think it's helpful to consider someone like Stephen, who, in his retirement, is not focused on his own needs, but rather the needs of his fellow man. If we could all just step outside of our little spheres of greed, we might discover a whole new world out there, a world that could benefit from our participation, just as we have benefitted from the participation of others who have made our society what it is.

Another aspect I feel is misrepresented is the idea that the rich pull the cart, and the poor ride in it. The rich wouldn't be rich without the poor to do their dirty work, because it's the poor people who put the cart together and keep it running. What I see missing is gratitude from the cart-pullers, who wouldn't have a cart without the underclass they so blithely dismiss.

As Bronzeage so succinctly stated, we're all brothers. And yet we're all rivals, striving to take from one another whatever we can grab through the trickery and sleight of hand of free market capitalism. In my view, the CEO's who ship jobs overseas are a burden to society, because they impoverish society in order to enrich themselves.

If you are a burden, stop trying to claim moral high ground. Somebody is paying your freight, so have some gratitude.

Another strange assumption, totally out of the blue. I'm paying my own freight at the moment, and contributing to society in the field of music, so I'm not worried about being a burden for the foreseeable future.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

STEPHAN talks a good game but you dont know more than he sez; I wouldnt put it past him to pimp his elderly mom and sleep at the library.

There are some rules of thumb about how much people contribute, and the conservative figure is 20/80: Twenty pull the wagon for the 80. I think the number is more like 15/85.

 

[stephen55]

STEPHAN talks a good game but you dont know more than he sez; I wouldnt put it past him to pimp his elderly mom and sleep at the library.

My library is in front of me. I cried when my momma died.
As for your lack of knowledge beyond what I say, I'll never argue the point.

 

[stephen55]

Damn!! I was waiting for your next shot which would have been met with Your ineffectual poesy is reminiscent of the scolopaceous twittering of typhlitic Christian Scientist.

But it's all for naught. I'm off to bed, perchance to dream...

 

[Liar]

Over a lifetime, so far, I guess I'm a freeloader. Growing up and attending government subsidized day care, free public school, city sponsored kid league soccer team, free youth dental care, and public health care for 20 years.

I've started repaying that in the last decade, but I'm not sure if I'm quite done yet.

 

[Handley_Page]

On behalf of myself and all the other productive members of society, I would like to tell the burdens on society, you are all very welcome.

He ain't heavy, he's my brother.

Well said, Sir.

 

[xssve]

Taxes are not the only form of redistribution - I believe in the US, profit distribution in the private sector is roughly 50% inputs, the remaining 50% is divided 25% to labor, 25% to management, so in term of productivity, you generate $0.75 for every quarter you earn, or rather, you get to keep a quarter out of every dollar you produce.

These are averages, and those figures are old, but I suspect they are still roughly accurate.

You put it like that, if you had to pay 75% taxes, nobody would go to fucking work.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Taxes are not the only form of redistribution - I believe in the US, profit distribution in the private sector is roughly 50% inputs, the remaining 50% is divided 25% to labor, 25% to management, so in term of productivity, you generate $0.75 for every quarter you earn, or rather, you get to keep a quarter out of every dollar you produce.

These are averages, and those figures are old, but I suspect they are still roughly accurate.

You put it like that, if you had to pay 75% taxes, nobody would go to fucking work.

No. Its much less than a Quarter. I did the math and its about 5 cents for the average wage slave.

In reality productivity goes to hell when taxes reach 50%.

 

[LaRocha]

Anyone who works 30 to 40 hours a week for someone else should be able to provide food, shelter, clothing, health care for their family. Unfortunately, in our society there's no such thing as a living wage. The free-market force, the labor union, got us pretty close to living wages in the 60's and 70's.

Working people can never be a burden on a society, even if they don't pay income tax. Children and the elderly don't work, are they a burden on society? Maybe we should make children work and kill everyone over 65? The whole picture of a society is more than production and consumption values.

 

[xssve]

No. Its much less than a Quarter. I did the math and its about 5 cents for the average wage slave.

In reality productivity goes to hell when taxes reach 50%.

Well, it's going to vary depending on the industry, but I would agree that the ratio for the average minimum wage earner is a smaller percentage of their productivity - the higher you get up the food chain generally, the better the margins.

I believe the global statistics I looked at were closer to 30% for labor, but again, it's been over Ten years since I looked at it - shit, Twenty years, now.

IT productivity gains were just beginning to kick in, back in the early/mid 90's before the DOW broke 1000.

 

[LaRocha]

phil jones isn't a burden on English society

LONDON (March 31) -- Professor Phil Jones, the scientist at the center of the "Climategate" scandal, has been cleared of manipulating global warming data by a British government investigation.


http://www.aolnews.com/world/article/report-climategate-professor-did-not-distort-data/19421195

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Well, it's going to vary depending on the industry, but I would agree that the ratio for the average minimum wage earner is a smaller percentage of their productivity - the higher you get up the food chain generally, the better the margins.

I believe the global statistics I looked at were closer to 30% for labor, but again, it's been over Ten years since I looked at it - shit, Twenty years, now.

IT productivity gains were just beginning to kick in, back in the early/mid 90's before the DOW broke 1000.

Whatever the exact rate is isnt much.

While I support capitalism over every other economic system, I do have a problem with 'capitalists' who are protected from risk by taxpayers yet are rewarded and compensated for risks they never experienced. Its the Special Olympics for Wall Street.