Who Do You Respect?

[unknooown]

I don't mean generally. Specifically. Who are the people in your life, that you interact with somewhat regularly, that have earned your respect and why?

I have a hard time respecting people I don't know. Hell, I have a hard time respecting people I do know. That's not to say I'm cruel because I'm actually pretty friendly (no, that's not even really true but I'm a nice enough dude), but lately I've been hearing from more and more people that I'm disrespectful. I mean fucking hell, I can't just be nice to people, I have to have esteem for them as well? It gets me nowhere when I try to explain: No, it's not just you I don't respect -- it's most people, so no hard feelings. Last time I said that to someone I got a failing grade for the semester.

The handful of people I do respect consists of:

1. My girlfriend. She's smart as hell but more than that she actually does something with it. What's the point of being smart if you don't make use of it? Granted in our day to day lives I don't always make my feelings for her clear. What I say goes unless she puts up a hell of a fight, but when she's right she's right. How could I expect her to respect me if I can't admit when she has a point? I'd say about a quarter of the time I treat her like a child. And yet in over 10 years of my knowing her, she's confronted me about being disrespectful only a few times (and in more than half of those instances she was right). If ANYBODY has the right to accuse me of being disrespectful, it's her: the way I speak to her/treat her/etc would get to even the most strong-willed person, and she takes it in stride. I suppose she could be considered an exception, because she knows me and also knows that I do have a lot of respect I have for her. But part of that respect stems from the fact that she's secure enough to take my shit.

2. My dad. I shouldn't have to elaborate on this but I will just to say that raising my two brothers and myself could not have been easy, and he started his company from scratch and retired at 45 and with enough money to not only live very comfortably for the rest of his (and my mother's) life, but also to put aside a generous amount of money for his three kids and and any children that we may have. And, like my girlfriend, my (sometimes misguided) abuse rolls right off his back (unless I've truly crossed a line).

3. One of my two best friends. We'll call him 'A' (the other, 'D', is a nice guy but not necessarily someone I have respect for). A is my moral compass. He's the first to tell me when I've crossed a line and the first to get on my ass about correcting my actions. He's not unintelligent but I wouldn't call him intellectual. I would say my respect for him comes from the fact that he stands up to me. He's actually one of the two people ever to have hit me in my adult life. I wouldn't say that's part of the reason I respect him but I think it's interesting that I do despite it.

4. My older brother. The other person who's hit me since I turned 18. That I actually deserved (long story) and again it's not why I respect him but it's telling. Basically it just comes down to the fact that he's so grounded. He's a good father/husband to his family, he's always been there for me as well as our shitty younger brother even when we don't necessarily deserve his support. Like our dad, he's self-made (started his own architecture agency in Oslo).

5. One of my professors. Doesn't bullshit anyone, says what's on his mind even if the person on the receiving end doesn't want to hear it. Sometimes he's a little too blunt but I respect that much more than lacking the ability to be honest. Opened an off-campus university art gallery in which his students can display their work. After battling bureaucracy for months (and maybe breaking a law or two) he finally got it open. Paid for everything out of pocket and is fixing up the place himself (with my help and the help of a few other students) and to top it off admission is totally free for all high school and college students.

Why do I have to respect people just because? This is particularly difficult with strangers because apparently my lack of respect for others is obvious. Something has to change -- and since I'm not about to start respecting people willy-nilly, it's everyone else that has to pull themselves together.

Surely I can't be the only one that feels this way.

 

[CurlyKat]

I'm the complete opposite end of the spectrum. The way I was brought up taught me that everyone deserves respect until proven otherwise. There are varying degrees of respect, and strangers don't get the same respect as someone whose opinion I highly value and think the world of, etc. To me, it's just manners. Show them the respect that each person deserves simply for being a person (don't intrude on their rights), and most people will show you the same courtesy in return.

Once someone has lost my respect, however, it does take quite a bit to gain it back, kind of like trust.

 

[sb2009]

I *treat* everyone with respect, it's just good manners. The people that I value thier input in my life and will heed when needed? A few.

 

[celticsunspiral]

I treat everyone with courtesy, but respect them, not necessarily. People I respect, actually there are very few. People who show intelligence, are reliable, giving. Those are usually people that I open up to with the total me. Others just get the version for public consumption.

Mariam Webster defines it as "1 : a relation or reference to a particular thing or situation <remarks having respect to an earlier plan>
2 : an act of giving particular attention : consideration
3 a : high or special regard : esteem b : the quality or state of being esteemed c plural : expressions of respect or deference <paid our respects>

So who do I respect? My 2 best friends, my sister and brother in law, and a small group of others.

 

[Etoile]

I respect people who know the difference between who and whom.

(unknooown, I'm SO sorry. I was sure someone would have posted this before me. I can't help myself, it HAD to be said. Please know that I don't actually respect you any less for not using whom, I learned long ago not to care about grammar on the internet, but the joke was lying RIGHT THERE begging me to use it, and I just HAD to.)

 

[Vixandra]

I'll play nice until someone proves their either worthy of respect or not worthy of my time. I don't respect easily either.

I can act respectfully but its just an act, not the real thing. And if asked, I'll tell someone that.

 

[unregistered]

 

[unknooown]

I respect people who know the difference between who and whom.

(unknooown, I'm SO sorry. I was sure someone would have posted this before me. I can't help myself, it HAD to be said. Please know that I don't actually respect you any less for not using whom, I learned long ago not to care about grammar on the internet, but the joke was lying RIGHT THERE begging me to use it, and I just HAD to.)

You're betraying your age, as the consensus among English professors these days is that this particular rule is no longer significant.

 

[unknooown]

Re: Those in the service industry. These are not the people I have an issue with. I treat servers, customer service reps, receptionists etc with the utmost courtesy (courtesy, in this case, being different than respect). I understand they have a job to do and also that I'm not the only person demanding their attention. Not only am I a generous tipper but I even have a roster of people (that I interact with somewhat regularly) that I send wine/chocolates/etc to over the holidays. Partially because I've developed some sort of fucking complex over how I treat others but mostly because I appreciate what they do for me and I want them to know it so that they will continue to serve me well. This, however, does not equal respect.

The people I have an issue with are almost always those in a position of authority (either real or perceived). Professors. Doctors. Cops. I'm expected to just blindly respect them just because. I understand, in most cases, they've worked hard to get where they are. That's great. But everybody should work hard. I work hard. And I've found that the less competent a person is, the touchier he or she is about my showing adequate respect.

 

[Etoile]

You're betraying your age, as the consensus among English professors these days is that this particular rule is no longer significant.

Oooh really? I didn't know that. It will probably always cause me to twitch, though. And hey, I'm only 29!

 

[midwestyankee]

You're betraying your age, as the consensus among English professors these days is that this particular rule is no longer significant.

Prove it, please, saith someone who has taught English for 30 years. By proof, by the way, I do not mean the opinions of a few of your favorite teachers. I want to see citations to articles in juried professional journals that cite this phenomenon.

 

[unknooown]

Based on your attitude I'm going to assume you teach high school English.

Since I don't have access to JSTOR on this computer, this will have to do for now:

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/10/07/magazine/on-language-shnorring-the-burden.html

Bottom line of that article (which was written in 1990, Etoile) is that, with the exception of formal writing, using whom is more or less ostentatious.

 

[midwestyankee]

Based on your attitude I'm going to assume you teach high school English.

Since I don't have access to JSTOR on this computer, this will have to do for now:

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/10/07/magazine/on-language-shnorring-the-burden.html

Bottom line of that article (which was written in 1990, Etoile) is that, with the exception of formal writing, using whom is more or less ostentatious.

Frankly, I'm surprised a bit by your attitude. What was it in my post that suggested that my experience is exclusively at the high school level, which seems to be the implication that you intended? Is there something inherently inferior about high school teachers in your view?

Now, the column (it's hardly an article reporting fact, now, is it?) that you linked is both entertaining and irrelevant. Had you paid closer attention to the reasoning laid out by Safire in the final paragraphs you'd have seen that his acceptance of "who you know" is based solely on the fact that the phrase has become an idiom and not because of any linguistic shift away from the use of the object pronoun.

Nowhere in this piece by Safire is there any evidence of the claim that you made. For that matter, there is also no evidence to support your claim that the use of "whom" is ostentatious.

Still waiting for empirical evidence to support the claim you made that a majority of teachers of English believe that the subject/object distinction in the personal pronoun is "no longer significant."

 

[DVS]

I don't mean generally. Specifically. Who are the people in your life, that you interact with somewhat regularly, that have earned your respect and why?

I have a hard time respecting people I don't know. Hell, I have a hard time respecting people I do know. That's not to say I'm cruel because I'm actually pretty friendly (no, that's not even really true but I'm a nice enough dude), but lately I've been hearing from more and more people that I'm disrespectful. I mean fucking hell, I can't just be nice to people, I have to have esteem for them as well? It gets me nowhere when I try to explain: No, it's not just you I don't respect -- it's most people, so no hard feelings. Last time I said that to someone I got a failing grade for the semester....

I'm sorry, but I CAN just be nice to people. So, it's a general thing with me. I can see why when you say "No, it's not just you I don't respect -- it's most people, so no hard feelings" that you get into trouble with people. You should give everybody your simple respect.

I believe everybody deserves a certain amount of respect unless they do something or say something that changes that. That means I give simple respect to each person I meet on the street and give them their space, their chance to speak, their air to breathe and my assistance if it becomes necessary by calling the police or an ambulance if they need help.

If someone runs into me, on the sidewalk, I say maybe they're late for an appointment. If someone butts into line in front of me at the bank, I turn the other cheek. If someone interrupts me when talking, I let it go. If someone cuts me off while driving, I don't let it get to me. Even if they disrespect me for some reason, I'll still respect them because I don't know anything about them. Maybe they're having a bad day, or maybe a relative of theirs just died, or maybe they just got fired or whatever it may be.

Does their simple disrespect annoy me? Yes, but the world isn't going to end just because of what they did to me. It takes more for me to say something to them, or contact a manager of a store, or even notify police.

I give everybody the benefit of the doubt. I have no list of people I don't respect with out good reason. Unless someone does something I see as overstepping the line, I'll let it go. Live and let live. There's too much hate in this world. Chill out.

This is life. This sort of thing causes people to go postal when they get fired. This causes road rage. This causes people to kill family members for no reason when they get together for Thanksgiving.

Do I have greater respect for friends and family? Of course I do. But even they can disrespect me enough to cause me to longer respect them. This is life.

Oh, and even though you might not respect this sort of post from someone you don't know, I mean nothing disrespectful in it. And I'm sorry if you took it that way. I've got one word for you...Zoloft.

 

[unknooown]

Hey big guy, search for some articles on JSTOR if you have access. If it makes any difference (and I doubt it will) I go to university in Oslo. Perhaps we do things differently over there.

 

[midwestyankee]

Hey big guy, search for some articles on JSTOR if you have access. If it makes any difference (and I doubt it will) I go to university in Oslo. Perhaps we do things differently over there.

I hope that you don't do things differently at your university. After all, science is science.

My only issue with you is that you made an unsubstantiated claim as fact. And, since it was you who presented the arguable point, it's up to you to defend it adequately. I suspect that you're wrong in your assertion and I asked for substantiation. If you can find it, I'll be interested to see what you offer. One of my master's degrees is in linguistics so this is a topic of real interest for me.

I don't know what you're studying at university, but for the sake of discussion let's assume that it's anthropology. If you were to submit a paper whose thesis was that all Americans are the descendants of Scandinavians who visited North America a few hundred years before Christopher Columbus, I presume that your professor would expect you to support that thesis with the anthropological analog to empirical data. The same is the case in discussions online. When you present a thesis as fact, those of us who like to discuss such things as discussions and not merely as opinion-spouting fests want to know what's behind the thesis.

That's all.

What are you studying, by the way, if you don't mind?

 

[MisterSir]

I treat everybody with good manners, and exceptionally so. I'm the only person I know who bothers to thank cashiers and bus drivers, among other people, and I'm told a friend's mother, who referred to one mutual friend as "Gropy X" and another as "Fat Y", called me "Polite Z" (names changed to protect the innocent, and partly because X makes that sentence sound XTREEEEEM). But respect? Good question. I can think of maybe one person.

Doesn't bullshit anyone, says what's on his mind even if the person on the receiving end doesn't want to hear it. Sometimes he's a little too blunt but I respect that much more than lacking the ability to be honest

Ah. So he's the sort of person who thinks plain speaking is all about rudeness. Good good.

 

[unknooown]

You misunderstand me, MS. I don't think honesty and rudeness go hand in hand and neither does my professor. However, when it comes down to it there are only so many ways to say to a student, "Your attempt to pull one over on me is pretty transparent" or "You will not make it as a photographer; it's time to try your hand at something else."

On the other hand he's the first the first to offer praise when someone deserves it.


And I'm studying photography with a double minor in creative writing and art history.

 

[Primalex]

Ah. So he's the sort of person who thinks plain speaking is all about rudeness. Good good.

For MisterSir is an honourable man.

 

[Etoile]

Based on your attitude I'm going to assume you teach high school English.

Since I don't have access to JSTOR on this computer, this will have to do for now:

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/10/07/magazine/on-language-shnorring-the-burden.html

Bottom line of that article (which was written in 1990, Etoile) is that, with the exception of formal writing, using whom is more or less ostentatious.

I gotta side with midwestyankee on this one. It's William Safire. He's not the chief arbiter of proper English usage. The man was a journalist with an interest in linguistics, not a linguist with an interest in writing.

Now, I don't disagree with you that "whom" is considered ostentatious, of course it is. But I think it may yet be correct usage. In fact, the very same Safire article says this:

Always substitute whom for him; you wouldn't say, ''You know he,'' would you?

This is the rule of thumb I have always followed when puzzled about which to use.

Another article (pulled from your favorite JSTOR): http://www.jstor.org/stable/30047350 (The English Journal, Vol. 94, No. 5 (May, 2005), p. 34, "EJ Extra: Who Needs Whom?" by Derek Soles)
Now, this one admits freely that it is correct, but also says we should jettison "whom" from English altogether.

Of course, the debate has been going on far longer than that. See here, another JSTOR article: http://www.jstor.org/stable/807942 (The English Journal, Vol. 34, No. 9 (Nov., 1945), pp. 510-511, "Current English Forum: "Who" and "Whom"" by J. B. McM.)
This one, too, acknowledges that "whom" is correct, but allows that calling "who" wrong is "derogatory to the marvelous complexity and elasticity of living English syntax and begets an unhealthy attitude toward the rich resources of the language."

So, basically...I'm still right. My joke stands. Using "whom" may make me a grammar snob, but I'm okay with that. And I still respect people whose grammar snobbery is equal to or surpassing my own.

I also respect people who can have a lively debate without insults.

 

[midwestyankee]

You misunderstand me, MS. I don't think honesty and rudeness go hand in hand and neither does my professor. However, when it comes down to it there are only so many ways to say to a student, "Your attempt to pull one over on me is pretty transparent" or "You will not make it as a photographer; it's time to try your hand at something else."

On the other hand he's the first the first to offer praise when someone deserves it.


And I'm studying photography with a double minor in creative writing and art history.

Photography with an interest in art history, eh? I like that combination. Which photographers of note do you most enjoy? Do you find yourself emulating or being inspired by any one in particular in your work?

 

[Trinique_Fire]

I don't think anyone should walk around blatantly disrespecting people. I don't know exactly what it is that you do that makes it clear to people that you don't respect them, but I hope I never meet you IRL. You can be polite and courteous to someone and believe me, you won't look like a punk for doing so.

On that note, I have my bad days and my good, but I'd say 90% of the time I try to at least be polite.

As for the people in my personal life, well, I respect a few of them.

1) My ex, Luna. (Fear of God). No, she didn't really put the fear of God in me, but I've developed a respect for her that is partly her dominance to my submissive side, and partly respect that has grown out of a deep friendship and understanding that we share.

2) My sister. For very personal reasons, my respect for my sister has really grown throughout recent years. I aspire to be like her.

3) A few friends that I grew up with and/or went to school with. Various reasons.

 

[Trinique_Fire]

I'm sorry, but I CAN just be nice to people. So, it's a general thing with me. I can see why when you say "No, it's not just you I don't respect -- it's most people, so no hard feelings" that you get into trouble with people. You should give everybody your simple respect.

I believe everybody deserves a certain amount of respect unless they do something or say something that changes that. That means I give simple respect to each person I meet on the street and give them their space, their chance to speak, their air to breathe and my assistance if it becomes necessary by calling the police or an ambulance if they need help.

If someone runs into me, on the sidewalk, I say maybe they're late for an appointment. If someone butts into line in front of me at the bank, I turn the other cheek. If someone interrupts me when talking, I let it go. If someone cuts me off while driving, I don't let it get to me. Even if they disrespect me for some reason, I'll still respect them because I don't know anything about them. Maybe they're having a bad day, or maybe a relative of theirs just died, or maybe they just got fired or whatever it may be.

Does their simple disrespect annoy me? Yes, but the world isn't going to end just because of what they did to me. It takes more for me to say something to them, or contact a manager of a store, or even notify police.

I give everybody the benefit of the doubt. I have no list of people I don't respect with out good reason. Unless someone does something I see as overstepping the line, I'll let it go. Live and let live. There's too much hate in this world. Chill out.

This is life. This sort of thing causes people to go postal when they get fired. This causes road rage. This causes people to kill family members for no reason when they get together for Thanksgiving.

Do I have greater respect for friends and family? Of course I do. But even they can disrespect me enough to cause me to longer respect them. This is life.

Oh, and even though you might not respect this sort of post from someone you don't know, I mean nothing disrespectful in it. And I'm sorry if you took it that way. I've got one word for you...Zoloft.

Hear, hear!!! Now THAT is what I was trying to express.

 

[unknooown]

I'm not saying it's wrong. This particular rule hasn't changed, it's just gradually becoming less and less significant. Once a staple of casual conversation as well as informal and formal writing is now considered pedantic when used anywhere but the latter. If you use "whom" when talking with friends I can guarantee they consider you to be pretentious. While I understand that in this new age of Death Cab for Cutie, The Decemberists and Donnie Darko pretention is considered by many to be a good thing -- it isn't. I was hopeful at first that this new "faux-nerdism" fad was just among my peers at university but I've since come to the harsh realization that it's affecting every generation. "Whom" is not incorrect when used informally; it's just unnecessary.

ETA: In the future I should not attempt to type paragraphs on my new phone.

 

[sb2009]

I'm nice to everybody I interact with. Even small messy children and old slow people.