Who Do You Respect?

[unknooown]

I think some of you are using respect and courtesy interchangeably. To me they are two different things. I'm incredibly courteous; that doesn't mean I have esteem for those that I'm polite to.

To the person that said "I'm sorry but I CAN just be nice" -- it's not that I'm not nice because I am; I take issue with the fact that being nice isn't enough. Don't think that I just walk around shitting on people left and right -- I'm pleasant up until someone fails to show me the consideration I expect. Again, showing consderation for another person does not necessarily mean you respect him. But for me, once that line is crossed, the gloves are off. This is when my feelings for others get me into trouble. And this is what has me so frustrated -- why isn't courtesy enough? And why am I expected to be polite to someone that lacks courtesy, and more than that, to actually hold them in high regard?

People are shit, man

 

[graceanne]

I think some of you are using respect and courtesy interchangeably. To me they are two different things. I'm incredibly courteous; that doesn't mean I have esteem for those that I'm polite to.

To the person that said "I'm sorry but I CAN just be nice" -- it's not that I'm not nice because I am; I take issue with the fact that being nice isn't enough. Don't think that I just walk around shitting on people left and right -- I'm pleasant up until someone fails to show me the consideration I expect. Again, showing consderation for another person does not necessarily mean you respect him. But for me, once that line is crossed, the gloves are off. This is when my feelings for others get me into trouble. And this is what has me so frustrated -- why isn't courtesy enough? And why am I expected to be polite to someone that lacks courtesy, and more than that, to actually hold them in high regard?

I don't recall saying you should hold them in high regard, but doing something bad because they did something bad first doesn't make you a good person, it makes you a three year old. "But, mom! She did it first!"

That said, I am quite guilty of doing this. I've been known to flip off the guy who cut me off, or tell the person who thinks children should be seen and not heard to fuck off. That doesn't make it okay, though.

People are shit, man

On this, we're in total agreement.

 

[JMohegan]

It gets me nowhere when I try to explain: No, it's not just you I don't respect -- it's most people, so no hard feelings. Last time I said that to someone I got a failing grade for the semester.

So you mouthed off and took a hit to your transcript. Has that changed the way you address professors at all?

The people I have an issue with are almost always those in a position of authority (either real or perceived). Professors. Doctors. Cops. I'm expected to just blindly respect them just because. I understand, in most cases, they've worked hard to get where they are. That's great. But everybody should work hard. I work hard. And I've found that the less competent a person is, the touchier he or she is about my showing adequate respect.

A college kid who has a problem with authority figures. Imagine that!

As part of the growing-up process, people either learn to respect the power held by authority figures, and adjust their behavior accordingly - or they don't, and take the consequences.

Of course, some people who respect the power held by authority figures defy it anyway. Whether the defying is worth the consequences depends on the time, place, and cause.

Why do I have to respect people just because?

There's no "have to." It's a free country, man. Do whatever you want.

 

[Cattypuss]

I respect someone until they prove to me that they're not worthy of my respect.

On who/whom, in British English throughout my adult lifetime (I'm 42), using "whom" in informal writing, or in ANY kind of speech, has generally been considered pedantic and a bit precious. Certainly it's considered to be very formal, at best.

USA/UK differences, eh?

One that goes the other way - using "whilst" is perfectly normal in the UK in all sorts of speech and writing, whereas on the other side of the pond it can come across as too formal/archaic.

 

[unknooown]

Utimately my transcript remained unscathed as I took the class a second time (with a different professor) and received a grade that more accurately reflected my understanding of the subject matter. That's how it should have been in the first place -- in what world is it appropriate for a professor to allow a bruised ego to affect his or her grading process? This is part of what makes me crazy: if a person can hold his own against me (or anyone else) without throwing a tantrum, it wouldn't be so hard to show him respect.

And the issue with this particular professor was simple. He mentioned that he had written a recommendation letter for a former student that was going on to get his PhD in biology. This student was also Christian and very religious; despite studying evolution for most of his adult life he personally believes in creationism. And my question was why in the hell would you write a recommendation letter for a person that believes in magic? Honest enough question if you ask me but that and the discussion that followed didn't sit well with the professor.

 

[unknooown]

And ultimately I have no regrets -- if I had to do it all over again I wouldn't change a thing.

 

[unregistered]

 

[MisterSir]

And my question was why in the hell would you write a recommendation letter for a person that believes in magic?

Because those wizards are fucking scary.

 

[unregistered]

 

[unregistered]

 

[CurlyKat]

Utimately my transcript remained unscathed as I took the class a second time (with a different professor) and received a grade that more accurately reflected my understanding of the subject matter. That's how it should have been in the first place -- in what world is it appropriate for a professor to allow a bruised ego to affect his or her grading process? This is part of what makes me crazy: if a person can hold his own against me (or anyone else) without throwing a tantrum, it wouldn't be so hard to show him respect.

And the issue with this particular professor was simple. He mentioned that he had written a recommendation letter for a former student that was going on to get his PhD in biology. This student was also Christian and very religious; despite studying evolution for most of his adult life he personally believes in creationism. And my question was why in the hell would you write a recommendation letter for a person that believes in magic? Honest enough question if you ask me but that and the discussion that followed didn't sit well with the professor.

He probably took offense to the way the question was worded. You could have said the exact same thing in a much more polite way. The way you did say it could be, and is, offensive to anyone in the world believing in creation. Even if it's not your particular belief, common courtesty dictates that you are at least tolerant of the ideals of other beliefs. The way you said it comes across as arrogant and like you think your professor is the most idiotic person in the world. You don't have to agree with what he did, but then again, it wasn't your call to make. Maybe this particular student had a whole lot else going for him and happened to be a brilliant scholar, beliefs aside. That in and of itself would warrant a letter of recommendation, academically. Also, it's not really up to him to prove why he thought it a good idea to write the letter of recommendation to you.

 

[intothewoods]

Because those wizards are fucking scary.

Ha ha ha.

 

[graceanne]

He probably took offense to the way the question was worded. You could have said the exact same thing in a much more polite way. The way you did say it could be, and is, offensive to anyone in the world believing in creation. Even if it's not your particular belief, common courtesty dictates that you are at least tolerant of the ideals of other beliefs. The way you said it comes across as arrogant and like you think your professor is the most idiotic person in the world. You don't have to agree with what he did, but then again, it wasn't your call to make. Maybe this particular student had a whole lot else going for him and happened to be a brilliant scholar, beliefs aside. That in and of itself would warrant a letter of recommendation, academically. Also, it's not really up to him to prove why he thought it a good idea to write the letter of recommendation to you.

Add to that, who your professor chooses to write recommendation letters for (and why) is none of your business.

 

[unregistered]

 

[unregistered]

 

[unknooown]

Really? Did you say this in front of the student requesting a recommedation letter?

No, the student was a former graduate student of his and I was just an undergrad fulfilling a science requirement.

I get what you are saying, completely. I'm a non-believer myself and struggle to understand the number of scientists and doctors who believe in a creator (and, surprisingly, they're not at all uncommon).

It's not that he's religious, and it's not that he believes in a creator. It's that he was seeking a PhD in biology. I cannot imagine why someone who has spent the entirety of his adult life studying evolution wouldn't believe in it. Would I take that person seriously as a biologist? No -- how could I? He doesn't even believe in his field of study. If he was studying something else this would be a non-issue.

Furthermore, I have no problem with people that believe in god. There are plenty of people that are religious and believe in evolution. I just don't understand how or why a person that doesn't believe in evolution would be seeking a degree in biology. (Also, and I may be remembering wrong, but I believe his ultimate goal was to become a professor. Horrifying.)

He probably took offense to the way the question was worded.

This I understand. Truth is, I was completely baffled. When he mentioned it I think I let out an audible scoff and this is when he invited me to share my opinion. If I had better self-control I would likely have only had to take that class once.

 

[unknooown]

I feel like we're getting off track here.

People are terrible; that's the bottom line.

 

[BiBunny]

I feel like we're getting off track here.

People are terrible; that's the bottom line.

You posted a thread on a public message board. People are going to go on tangents sometimes.

 

[unknooown]

I was being facetious. I got more off track than anyone.

 

[CurlyKat]

It's not that he's religious, and it's not that he believes in a creator. It's that he was seeking a PhD in biology. I cannot imagine why someone who has spent the entirety of his adult life studying evolution wouldn't believe in it. Would I take that person seriously as a biologist? No -- how could I? He doesn't even believe in his field of study. If he was studying something else this would be a non-issue.

Furthermore, I have no problem with people that believe in god. There are plenty of people that are religious and believe in evolution. I just don't understand how or why a person that doesn't believe in evolution would be seeking a degree in biology. (Also, and I may be remembering wrong, but I believe his ultimate goal was to become a professor. Horrifying.)

Biology, by definition is the study of life. This includes many, many different sub-categories that don't necessarily have to focus on the debate of how life came into existance. And I still hold that someone can be well-qualified and do extremely well in a field, beliefs aside. Teaching shouldn't necessarily be the infusion of beliefs into your students, so his personal beliefs should stay out of the classroom. I've seen both creationists and evolutionist BOTH present balanced views of both sides, just the facts and no opinions, and let the students decide for themselves which is fact and which is theory. That is the most effective teaching: giving your students the tools to sort through information on their own and come to their own conclusions.

You can easily believe in creation and be a scientist at the same time. Personal beliefs do not come into play in academic pursuits.

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

Personal beliefs do not come into play in academic pursuits.

I agree that a good lawyer can present either side of a case, and likewise, teachers should know the claims and counterclaims of various theories. For instance, a professor of political and economic ideology should be able to explain the arguments and criticisms of both Karl Marx and Milton Friedman.

But academic pursuits do require examination of evidence, and subsequent drawing of conclusions, i.e. personal beliefs. Research and publishing are not optional for academics. If you're a biology professor whose opinions on the basic underpinnings of your discipline are contrary to those of 99% of your colleagues, well...you got some 'splainin' to do. If you're a Shakespeare scholar who believes that the Bard's work was really written by elves during the night, you'd better be ready to argue that in The Oxfordian and defend it to the tenure committee.

 

[FurryFury]

I respect people until they give me a reason not to.

Specifically I respect my husband, friends and kids.

 

[ImOnIt]

Respect meaning treat politely/show respect: everyone.

Respect meaning admiration is much more specific.

 

[Homburg]

I both respect, and trust, everyone I deal with - to a safe extent. Literally every human being from the meanest to the most high deserves the same sort of basic respect as a fellow human being. In my case, that means common courtesy, basic politeness, etc. I assume that a given person is worthy of least that basic respect. Beyond that, they have the opportunity to earn my regard, esteem, or whatever you call it.

By the same token, I disrespect only those who have earned my disrespect. It is just how I was raised. That said, I can be hellaciously disrespectful.

I say "please" and "thank you" to my kids when I ask them to do something. And I say "please" and "thank you" to both of my girls. Slaves or not, they deserve polite treatment as well, at least in normal day to day conversation. Sex/scenes might warrant different behaviour.

I am no shining beacon of politeness, but I realise that the world works just a little bit better when people are polite. I get better service when I smile and say thank you. I get better results out of hostile people.

I get a smile in return. A real one. That is worth something to me.

Even that harried, over-worked cashier at the grocery store appreciates being treated like a human. I can't tell you how many times I've been just normally nice, and had someone in that position look at me with honest thanks in their eyes. I've been in that position, and I will never forget it. I've had those blisteringly shitty days and gotten picked up because one customer was friendly, polite, and made me smile.

I want to be that customer.

 

[Netzach]

Utimately my transcript remained unscathed as I took the class a second time (with a different professor) and received a grade that more accurately reflected my understanding of the subject matter. That's how it should have been in the first place -- in what world is it appropriate for a professor to allow a bruised ego to affect his or her grading process?

The real one. Sucks, doesn't it? But it illustrates the nature of authority. Was it worth the extra tuition to retake the course?

And the issue with this particular professor was simple. He mentioned that he had written a recommendation letter for a former student that was going on to get his PhD in biology. This student was also Christian and very religious; despite studying evolution for most of his adult life he personally believes in creationism. And my question was why in the hell would you write a recommendation letter for a person that believes in magic? Honest enough question if you ask me but that and the discussion that followed didn't sit well with the professor.

In the real world there are also all kinds of people with values and beliefs you may think are stupid. You are no less obligated to just deal with them and get on with your life. Pointing out the stupidity you see every single time you see it doesn't make you hip and special, it makes you an asshole that ultimately no one wants to be around. You can just accept that there's a lot in the world that strikes you as stupid and not have to retake class.

No one's being killed, it's just a recommendation that wasn't your business in the first place.