One Take on the Gay Parenting Issue

[Esperanza_Hidalgo]

Esperanza, I agree with you. The sex of the parent(s) make no difference.

I admit to a warped sense of humour and I seldom get to the point quickly, but that was my point.

I did, however, get sidetracked on the issue as to whether two parents are better than one. That's not to say that a single parent has anything to be ashamed of. I once was one.

Now, awesome hunting in Canada stories....I have a few.

Chuckle

Okay, Canada has some good huintin' stories huh? Ya need to publish one of 'em. Trust me, my humor is as warped as the rest of 'em. Have a great day.

I simply wanted to make a point, and the thread was lost in the shuffle, but it's fun to read and think on. Bunches a smart people at this place.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Actually there are few smart people here; few of them bother to think things out before they blabber absurd opinions. Theyre more like monkeys with parisols and underpants.

 

[amicus]

Esperanza_Hidalgo, Post #73…

I only wanted to make one point.
The sex of either parent doesn't matter. Wise parent will produce good decision-making ability in children, again, not applicable to every situation, but as a general rule should apply.

The self identified Doctor of Medicine, Stephen55...should know better than to promote his personal belief and at least include opposing opinions or conclusions. I would have to search for documentation, but I have read that while some Doctors will perform abortions, most will not as a moral imperative. I offer that as evidence implying that 'Doctors' are human also and express differing and sometimes polar opinions.


http://www.zenit.org/article-11466?l=english

http://www.drtraycehansen.com/Pages/writings_samesex.html

Love Isn’t Enough: 5 Reasons Why
Same-Sex Marriage Will Harm Children
By Trayce Hansen, Ph.D.

Proponents of same-sex marriage believe the only thing children really need is love. Based on that supposition, they conclude it’s just as good for children to be raised by loving parents of the same sex, as it is to be raised by loving parents of the opposite sex. Unfortunately, that basic assumption—and all that flows from it—is false. Because love isn’t enough!

All else being equal, children do best when raised by a married mother and father. It’s within this environment that children are most likely to be exposed to the emotional and psychological experiences they need in order to thrive.
Men and women bring diversity to parenting; each makes unique contributions to the rearing of children that can’t be replicated by the other. Mothers and fathers simply are not interchangeable. Two women can both be good mothers, but neither can be a good father.

So here are five reasons why it’s in the best interest of children to be raised by both a mother and a father:

First, mother-love and father-love—though equally important—are qualitatively different and produce distinct parent-child attachments. Specifically, it’s the combination of the unconditional-leaning love of a mother and the conditional-leaning love of a father that’s essential to a child’s development. Either of these forms of love without the other can be problematic. Because what a child needs is the complementary balance the two types of parental love and attachment provide.

Only heterosexual parents offer children the opportunity to develop relationships with a parent of the same, as well as the opposite sex. Relationships with both sexes early in life make it easier for a child to relate to both sexes later in life. For a girl, that means she’ll better understand and appropriately interact with the world of men and be more comfortable in the world of women. And for a boy, the converse will hold true. Having a relationship with “the other”—an opposite sexed parent—also increases the likelihood that a child will be more empathetic and less narcissistic.

Secondly, children progress through predictable and necessary developmental stages. Some stages require more from a mother, while others require more from a father. For example, during infancy, babies of both sexes tend to do better in the care of their mother. Mothers are more attuned to the subtle needs of their infants and thus are more appropriately responsive. However, at some point, if a young boy is to become a competent man, he must detach from his mother and instead identify with his father. A fatherless boy doesn’t have a man with whom to identify and is more likely to have trouble forming a healthy masculine identity.

A father teaches a boy how to properly channel his aggressive and sexual drives. A mother can’t show a son how to control his impulses because she’s not a man and doesn’t have the same urges as one. A father also commands a form of respect from a boy that a mother doesn’t––a respect more likely to keep the boy in line. And those are the two primary reasons why boys without fathers are more likely to become delinquent and end up incarcerated.

Father-need is also built into the psyche of girls. There are times in a girl’s life when only a father will do. For instance, a father offers a daughter a safe, non-sexual place to experience her first male-female relationship and have her femininity affirmed. When a girl doesn’t have a father to fill that role she’s more likely to become promiscuous in a misguided attempt to satisfy her inborn hunger for male attention and validation.

Overall, fathers play a restraining role in the lives of their children. They restrain sons from acting out antisocially, and daughters from acting out sexually. When there’s no father to perform this function, dire consequences often result both for the fatherless children and for the society in which these children act out their losses.

Third, boys and girls need an opposite-sexed parent to help them moderate their own gender-linked inclinations. As example, boys generally embrace reason over emotion, rules over relationships, risk-taking over caution, and standards over compassion, while girls generally embrace the reverse. An opposite-sexed parent helps a child keep his or her own natural proclivities in check by teaching—verbally and nonverbally—the worth of the opposing tendencies. That teaching not only facilitates moderation, but it also expands the child’s world—helping the child see beyond his or her own limited vantage point.

Fourth, same-sex marriage will increase sexual confusion and sexual experimentation by young people. The implicit and explicit message of same-sex marriage is that all choices are equally acceptable and desirable. So, even children from traditional homes—influenced by the all-sexual-options-are-equal message—will grow up thinking it doesn’t matter whom one relates to sexually or marries. Holding such a belief will lead some—if not many—impressionable young people to consider sexual and marital arrangements they never would have contemplated previously. And children from homosexual families, who are already more likely to experiment sexually, would do so to an even greater extent, because not only was non-traditional sexuality role-modeled by their parents, it was also approved by their society.

There is no question that human sexuality is pliant. Think of ancient Greece or Rome—among many other early civilizations—where male homosexuality and bisexuality were nearly ubiquitous. This was not so because most of those men were born with a “gay gene,” rather it was because homosexuality was condoned by those societies. That which a society sanctions, it gets more of.

And fifth, if society permits same-sex marriage, it also will have to allow other types of marriage. The legal logic is simple: If prohibiting same-sex marriage is discriminatory, then disallowing polygamous marriage, polyamorous marriage, or any other marital grouping will also be deemed discriminatory. The emotional and psychological ramifications of these assorted arrangements on the developing psyches and sexuality of children would be disastrous. And what happens to the children of these alternative marriages if the union dissolves and each parent then “remarries”? Those children could end up with four fathers, or two fathers and four mothers, or, you fill in the blank.

Certainly homosexual couples can be just as loving as heterosexual couples, but children require more than love. They need the distinctive qualities and the complementary natures of a male and female parent.

The accumulated wisdom of over 5,000 years has concluded that the ideal marital and parental configuration is composed of one man and one woman. Arrogantly disregarding such time-tested wisdom, and using children as guinea pigs in a radical experiment, is risky at best, and cataclysmic at worst.

Same-sex marriage definitely isn’t in the best interest of children. And although we empathize with those homosexuals who long to be married and parent children, we mustn’t allow our compassion for them to trump our compassion for children. In a contest between the desires of some homosexuals and the needs of all children, we can’t allow the children to lose.

~~~

I at first cut and pasted just the first paragraph and then opined that most would not follow the link to the complete article but might read what was presented.

To Hidalgo who claims to be in an University atmosphere, seeking truth; please accept this as a polar opinion to your expressed 'belief'.

Amicus

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

OMG I had no idea EH was getting enlightenment.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Esperanza_Hidalgo, Post #73…



The self identified Doctor of Medicine, Stephen55...should know better than to promote his personal belief and at least include opposing opinions or conclusions. I would have to search for documentation, but I have read that while some Doctors will perform abortions, most will not as a moral imperative. I offer that as evidence implying that 'Doctors' are human also and express differing and sometimes polar opinions.


http://www.zenit.org/article-11466?l=english

http://www.drtraycehansen.com/Pages/writings_samesex.html

Love Isn’t Enough: 5 Reasons Why
Same-Sex Marriage Will Harm Children
By Trayce Hansen, Ph.D.

At the beginning of her article, Dr Hansen notes;

Subsequent to publication of the May/June 2009 special issue (Volume 21, Issue 3), homosexual activists within and without the organization pressured CAMFT to not only apologize, but also expunge from their organizational archives those articles that voiced opposition to same-sex marriage. CAMFT capitulated to those demands. The Director of CAMFT apologized for publishing articles critical of same-sex marriage and all the "offending" articles were censored from the CAMFT website archives. So much for intellectual debate and freedom of opinion.

Indeed. But what Trayce-boo forgets is that freedom of opinion also includes the freedom to opine that some opinions are too uninformed to be bothered with.

And here is where Doc hansen disqualifies herself;

Dr. Hansen has extensively reviewed the research literature in these areas and occasionally writes commentaries based on her findings that have been published worldwide.

First of all, there is no "the" research literature. Secondly, anyone who has reviewed (in past tense), is not qualified to publish findings currently. You have to keep reviewing, continuously. A little learning is a dangerous thing, and in any research field, the learning is always "a little"

I at first cut and pasted just the first paragraph and then opined that most would not follow the link to the complete article but might read what was presented.

To Hidalgo who claims to be in an University atmosphere, seeking truth; please accept this as a polar opinion to your expressed 'belief'.

Amicus

You opined incorrectly, kid. it's always worthwhile to check into your sources' credentials.

 

[Lisa Summers]

1. I have NO idea if this article I am linking has been posted on this thread, and I'm not wading through it to find out. If it has been posted previously, just ignore this post.

2. What I HAVE seen referenced here is pretty much above my pay grade. I'm not positioning myself for an argument or a debate with anyone here, so don't bother telling me the authors at my link are full of shit. They may well be, I'm just not in the mood to hear about it.

3. Basically, their research showed that gay and lesbian couples are 'better' than having a single parent, and in many respects echo the relationships in conventional 2 parent households.

4. I'm going to bed now.

Here ya go -

Claims that children need both a mother and father presume that women and men parent differently in ways crucial to development but generally rely on studies that conflate gender with other family structure variables. We analyze findings from studies with designs that mitigate these problems by comparing 2-parent families with same or different sex coparents and single-mother with single-father families. Strengths typically associated with married mother-father families appear to the same extent in families with 2 mothers and potentially in those with 2 fathers. Average differences favor women over men, but parenting skills are not dichotomous or exclusive. The gender of parents correlates in novel ways with parent-child relationships but has minor significance for children's psychological adjustment and social success.

 

[amicus]

Dear Lisa Summers.... I copy and paste from my own Post:

Third, boys and girls need an opposite-sexed parent to help them moderate their own gender-linked inclinations. As example, boys generally embrace reason over emotion, rules over relationships, risk-taking over caution, and standards over compassion, while girls generally embrace the reverse. An opposite-sexed parent helps a child keep his or her own natural proclivities in check by teaching—verbally and nonverbally—the worth of the opposing tendencies. That teaching not only facilitates moderation, but it also expands the child’s world—helping the child see beyond his or her own limited vantage point.

Rather than depend upon the opinions of others, do you yourself find the above statement to be rational?

I find the delineation of male and female characteristics to be well found and relevant.



Ami...

 

[Esperanza_Hidalgo]

OMG I had no idea EH was getting enlightenment.

I consider myself enlightened.

At the beginning of her article, Dr Hansen notes;

Quote:
Subsequent to publication of the May/June 2009 special issue (Volume 21, Issue 3), homosexual activists within and without the organization pressured CAMFT to not only apologize, but also expunge from their organizational archives those articles that voiced opposition to same-sex marriage. CAMFT capitulated to those demands. The Director of CAMFT apologized for publishing articles critical of same-sex marriage and all the "offending" articles were censored from the CAMFT website archives. So much for intellectual debate and freedom of opinion.

and educated . . .

And here is where Doc Hansen disqualifies herself;
Quote:
Dr. Hansen has extensively reviewed the research literature in these areas and occasionally writes commentaries based on her findings that have been published worldwide.

. . . just a bit more each day. Lit certainly is an education, albiet somewhat jaded at times. Much more interesting than the typical undergrad class.

It's hard to opinion based upon bias, and Dr. Hansen mind set is against gay parenting. She bases this view on a review of research, not on work that she has done.

Again, I do not deny the "opinion" that role models of both sexes are important for the well-being of the child, but good parenting depends upon more than the sex of the parent. Good and bad parents come in a variety of flavors . . . in my "opinion."

Dr. Hansen asserts that children of lezbigay parents are more likely to be lezbigay, ah . . . so what? Love, in my "opinion" doesn't see the sex of an individual. Love is love, and it also comes in a variety of shapes and sizes. I feel for women as a hetero feels for the opposite, and it didn't happen because I was brought up by a lesbian parents. Uhm, Uhm, hetero all the way. Sorry, guys just don't do it for me, and they never did ever since I can remember. This isn't the result of the way I was raised, which was fanatically conservative and religious. I'm just a girl who loves girls. No research needed, it just is, and it isn't wrong, sinful, or leading to the morale decay of modern society. No, just looked out the window, no buildings tumbling down, no lightning strikes. Dang, I'm drifting, gettin' sleepy.

Below is her website (Hansen), look for yourself and read her "opinion" on the issue.

http://www.drtraycehansen.com/Pages/writings_samesex.html

And that's my opinion, which thankfully I can express.

Now I'm going to bed, a warm bed with a warm woman, who's hot to boot.

 

[amicus]

Ah...then you are not seeking enlightenment, merely supporting your own lifestyle.

That be fine and dandy...but no one cares about your personal proclivities as they don't care about mine, nor do I trumpet them to agrandize a choice of lifestyle.

Once upon a time....the purpose of attending University was to learn. The first dictate students were given, was to shed all their previously held opinions and beliefs and open their minds to truth.

You would do better at a Trade School, at least you would learn something useful.

Amicus

 

[Esperanza_Hidalgo]

Ah...then you are not seeking enlightenment, merely supporting your own lifestyle.

That be fine and dandy...but no one cares about your personal proclivities as they don't care about mine, nor do I trumpet them to agrandize a choice of lifestyle.

Once upon a time....the purpose of attending University was to learn. The first dictate students were given, was to shed all their previously held opinions and beliefs and open their minds to truth.

You would do better at a Trade School, at least you would learn something useful.

Amicus

Whose truth? Yours? Or should I be able to decide that?

 

[amicus]

Whose truth? Yours? Or should I be able to decide that?

~~~

You might begin with a Freshman Introductory course in Philosophy. You should find reference to Aristotle's 'A is A', a thing is that which it is.

Learning the definition of axioms and self evident truths, might also help.

You might observe the Periodic nature of elements and comprehend why they are absolute truth, not mine, yours or anyone's, but in fact, in reality.

You might study Universal Truths, that surpass all societies and opinions and exist for all men at all times, such as the laws of physics and such.

But then, making the transition from the absolutes of the physical world to the world of abstractions and concepts is most likely beyond your abilities as it is with most here.

Instead, you will likely follow the course of least resistance, that of denying all absolutes and stating that nothing is real, nothing is absolute, there are no truths and join your fellow relativists in seeking narcotic oblivion when your mind rebels at the contradictions you live by. You will lose your sanity and your humanity, but you will be so drugged up you don't care.

Sad.

Amicus

 

[Stella_Omega]

Whose truth? Yours? Or should I be able to decide that?

You are supposed to truckle under to his superior powers of excrimental bloviation. So sad that no one will take pity on an old, shabby, little satyr, isn't it?

 

[Esperanza_Hidalgo]

You are supposed to truckle under to his superior powers of excrimental bloviation. So sad that no one will take pity on an old, shabby, little satyr, isn't it?

He'll not win. But more is useless.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

EH

Who you do is your business.

Every lesbian I know or knew is or was nuthin to write home about. So your sexual druthers may not be all that much of a loss to the menfolk, just in case you think we're contemplating slicing our veins over you. Girlz are like city buses.

As parents each sex comes with an incomplete tool box. Both sexes make a full set of tools. Two girls or two boys duplicate 1/2 of the tool box. Girl tools are important and necessary, but they dont fix everything, and THAT is the inescapable point.

 

[Lisa Summers]

Dear Lisa Summers.... I copy and paste from my own Post:



Rather than depend upon the opinions of others, do you yourself find the above statement to be rational?

I find the delineation of male and female characteristics to be well found and relevant.



Ami...

Amicus, I was going to respond to your point...and believe it or not, I am sympathetic to, if not in agreement with some of your points made on other threads...but in reading your responses to Esperanza here, I find myself unwilling to undergo the anticipated contentious discussion that will inevitably result. It's not you, it's me .

Those of us who are gay, or lesbian, are likely to be unswayed by the (good or bad, flippant or well thought out) responses of the straight folk, as we, too, are interested in living out our lives and creating families where there once were none. It is a completely human response to desire a family.

If you think that we will be ineffective as parents, that is your right, but I give that as much credence as I do to the opinions of someone like Al Gore or Newt Gingrich. That is to say, none.

 

[Stella_Omega]

EH

Who you do is your business.

Every lesbian I know or knew is or was nuthin to write home about. So your sexual druthers may not be all that much of a loss to the menfolk, just in case you think we're contemplating slicing our veins over you. Girlz are like city buses.

As parents each sex comes with an incomplete tool box. Both sexes make a full set of tools. Two girls or two boys duplicate 1/2 of the tool box. Girl tools are important and necessary, but they dont fix everything, and THAT is the inescapable point.

Jimmy, remember.

The girls don't want to meet Mr. Happy.

Mr. Happy stays in his house.

 

[stephen55]

It's called Freedom of Speech...........

Esperanza_Hidalgo, Post #73…



The self identified Doctor of Medicine, Stephen55...should know better than to promote his personal belief and at least include opposing opinions or conclusions. I would have to search for documentation, but I have read that while some Doctors will perform abortions, most will not as a moral imperative. I offer that as evidence implying that 'Doctors' are human also and express differing and sometimes polar opinions.


http://www.zenit.org/article-11466?l=english

http://www.drtraycehansen.com/Pages/writings_samesex.html

Love Isn’t Enough: 5 Reasons Why
Same-Sex Marriage Will Harm Children
By Trayce Hansen, Ph.D.



~~~

I at first cut and pasted just the first paragraph and then opined that most would not follow the link to the complete article but might read what was presented.

To Hidalgo who claims to be in an University atmosphere, seeking truth; please accept this as a polar opinion to your expressed 'belief'.

Amicus

I don't understand why I should know better than to voice my personal opinions, without including opposing opinions. Those who disagree are free to post their own opinions. After all, what I'm posting are my opinions as a person. My profession background gives me no authority or special knowledge about anything, outside of what was my job. I don't argue with Electrical Engineers about circuit design because I know dick all about electrical engineering. I do know something about human anatomy, physiology and reproduction. That doesn't give me any leg up on issues that revolve around ethics, morality and philosophy. Nor does it preclude me from adding my two bits into the thread.

You're certainly right that some doctors do perform abortions and some don't. Doctors, like everyone else, cannot be forced to do any procedures against their will. Personally, I believe a woman has the right to abortion, for whatever reason she feels is proper. I never did this type of procedure for the simple reason that I was never trained to do it. Nothing prevented me from acquiring the appropriate training. I simply felt that a properly trained gynecologist could do it better. So whenever a woman came to my office wanting an abortion, I simply referred her to someone who was better able to do the procedure. Medical ethics require that a doctor who is unable or unwilling to do any procedure, finds another doctor who can. It's not passing the buck, it's doing the best thing for the patient.

 

[stephen55]

One more thought....

Isn't this thread about gay parenting? Amicus, why did you go after me about abortion in here? (And why did I reply?)

Damn.

If you want a second opinion, I'll say it's your gallbladder.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Isn't this thread about gay parenting? Amicus, why did you go after me about abortion in here? (And why did I reply?)

Damn.

If you want a second opinion, I'll say it's your gallbladder.

You've just been pulled in by a very adept troll.
Fooled you once, eh?

 

[Austin8]

EH

Who you do is your business.

Every lesbian I know or knew is or was nuthin to write home about. So your sexual druthers may not be all that much of a loss to the menfolk, just in case you think we're contemplating slicing our veins over you. Girlz are like city buses.

As parents each sex comes with an incomplete tool box. Both sexes make a full set of tools. Two girls or two boys duplicate 1/2 of the tool box. Girl tools are important and necessary, but they dont fix everything, and THAT is the inescapable point.

I for one, enjoyed the toolbox analogy

 

[cloudy]

Anyone else laugh their ass off at ami ... ing Esperanza in one post, speaking to her of "enlightenment," and then, once he realizes that he can't have this girl (especially since not a single one has wanted him back yet ), he starts in about how'd she be "better off in trade school"?

http://bestsmileys.com/lol/14.gif

Poor ami - I honestly believe he has a 24/7 case of blue balls.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I for one, enjoyed the toolbox analogy

MELANIE: Brand New Key
I rode my bicycle past your window last night
I roller skated to your door at daylight
It almost seems like you're avoiding me
I'm okay alone, but you got something I need

Well, I got a brand new pair of roller skates
You got a brand new key
I think that we should get together and try them out you see
I been looking around awhile
You got something for me
Oh! I got a brand new pair of roller skates
You got a brand new key

I ride my bike, I roller skate, don't drive no car
Don't go too fast, but I go pretty far
For somebody who don't drive
I been all around the world
Some people say, I done all right for a girl

Well, I got a brand new pair of roller skates
You got a brand new key
I think that we should get together and try them out you see
I been looking around awhile
You got something for me
Oh! I got a brand new pair of roller skates
You got a brand new key

I asked your mother if you were at home
She said, yes .. but you weren't alone
Oh, sometimes I think that you're avoiding me
I'm okay alone, but you've got something I need

Well, I got a brand new pair of roller skates
You got a brand new key
I think that we should get together and try them out to see
La la la la la la la la, la la la la la la
Oh! I got a brand new pair of roller skates
You got a brand new key

 

[amicus]

The 'clan' of regulars here continually express faith that abortion and gay marriage are 'enlightened' positions and righteously claim that anyone who dares challenge them is ignorant and trollish.

Even presenting a 'consensus' of scientific thought concerning when life begins brought no response as it seriously damaged the pro abortion argument. Presenting a documented, with references, exposition on the damage gay and lesbian parenting does to children, was simply ignored or the source challenged with the content dismissed out of hand.

That is not surprising or new, it has been going on for the several years I have been on this forum and not for a minute did I expect to sway the true believers from their stated hysterical anecdotal faith.

What one hopes for when taking a position in opposition to a majority, is that the truth will be seen by some, considered, and included in their repertoire of conflicting information in their search for truth and reason.

Curious, since neither gays nor lesbians reproduce, by choice, that they also favor abortion. When and if they adopt, they furiously claim they do not impose their sexual proclivities upon the child, yet the statistics and numbers say otherwise.

Further, one self proclaimed doctor, presented with evidence that science requires ethical and moral judgments, chooses to ignore that evidence and the suppositions and continue occupying the moral high ground of ambiguity and grey relativism.

Stella and Cloudy are the 'high Preistesses(sp?) of the faith and will brook no opposition but seem to enjoy the continuing personal attacks the supposedly replace rational debate.

Go figure.

Amicus

 

[Stella_Omega]

Ami is just the saddest most misunderstood little crayon in the box, isn't he?

AHAHAHAHA!

 

[bronzeage]

Feel-good Nonsense.

Children require male & female parents for optimal benefits. For one, females are clueless about boys. And I cant name one male who knows squat about girls.

I grew up in a house with a mother and two younger sisters. I have two daughters of my own who are now successful adults.

I do know that girls squat.