One Take on the Gay Parenting Issue

[Esperanza_Hidalgo]

http://topnews.co.uk/22112-child-s-success-not-affected-gender-parent

Child’s Success Not Affected By Gender of Parent
Submitted by Rasik Sharma on Sat, 01/23/2010 - 19:03

Labeling the theory, that children of lesbians are disadvantaged through the absence of father figure, a "self-fulfilling prophecy", an article in the Journal of Marriage and Family seems to contradict the popularly held belief that fathers as parents are indispensable.

According to the authors, there was no substantial evidence of gender based parenting abilities and skills in their research with the obvious exception of "lactation".

In a study that encompassed households with single mother, single father children, alongside children with lesbian mothers, researchers could find no discernible proof to support the popular notion that a father is an indispensable parent.Children of lesbian parents had just as fair of chance of being successful and happy as children with heterosexual parents. On the contrary, some researchers even claimed that lesbian mothers make better parents, since the non - biological mother is more involved in the care of the child than a father is in a heterosexual couple.

The results were welcome news for Rachel Epstein, coordinator of the LGBTQ (Lesbian Gay Bi-sexual Trans Queer) Parenting Network at Sherbourne Health Centre, who said, "This finding about gender is interesting. It kind of lays to rest the anxieties that people have about kids growing up in lesbian families".

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Feel-good Nonsense.

Children require male & female parents for optimal benefits. For one, females are clueless about boys. And I cant name one male who knows squat about girls.

 

[Lisa Summers]

Thank you for the article, Hidalgo. Ignore the unevolved troll.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Listen to her! And believe all the feel-good BS you read.

 

[Esperanza_Hidalgo]

Feel-good Nonsense.

Children require male & female parents for optimal benefits. For one, females are clueless about boys. And I cant name one male who knows squat about girls.

I know quite a few James, thar be a few in existence. I do feel it is important to have good male and female role models in any child rearing situation. The parents are one option, but there are others.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I know quite a few James, thar be a few in existence. I do feel it is important to have good male and female role models in any child rearing situation. The parents are one option, no doubt the best, but there are others.

You guys want to duplicate a recipe that Mother Nature perfected long ago. Blue Cheese aint Rochefort. I mean, what in fuck do you know about pissing in a urinal?

 

[Handley_Page]

I almost hate to say this, but JBJ is more-or-less right.

A father may love his daughter to distraction, but is not the best person to deal with woman-matters when she's growing up, to say nothing of that horrible phase "I'm right" they go through at about 8.

A boy is going to have a bit of trouble with his Mum(s?) when he gets to that same age.

Apart from anything else, since when did a boy want his Mum to buy him a pint ?


PS. There's some duplication in the quote.

 

[Esperanza_Hidalgo]

You guys want to duplicate a recipe that Mother Nature perfected long ago. Blue Cheese aint Rochefort.

I do not thrust my views on anyone. But I do advocate knowledge and learning of all views, and simply choose to share one take on the issue, and yes, it is my view. You may choose to believe as you wish, which you do with zeal.

 

[Esperanza_Hidalgo]

PS. There's some duplication in the quote.

My bad, fixed it.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

When females raise boys they get sissies like ROB who hide under the blankets sniffing momma's drawers.

I recall a birthday party for my grandson at Chuck E. Cheese. My grandson was 6, I think, and some older boy shoved him out of the way. Devon balled. So his dad and I took him aside, gave him a few pointers about sucker punching, and sent him to slap the shit out of the other boy. He did, the other kid was enjoying goodies with his friends when my grandson bitch slapped him. Mommas dont teach this kinda stuff. When their kid gets a bloody nose they kiss him and give him money for an ice cream sandwich.

 

[Esperanza_Hidalgo]

When females raise boys they get sissies like ROB who hide under the blankets sniffing momma's drawers.

I recall a birthday party for my grandson at Chuck E. Cheese. My grandson was 6, I think, and some older boy shoved him out of the way. Devon balled. So his dad and I took him aside, gave him a few pointers about sucker punching, and sent him to slap the shit out of the other boy. He did, the other kid was enjoying goodies with his friends when my grandson bitch slapped him. Mommas dont teach this kinda stuff. When their kid gets a bloody nose they kiss him and give him money for an ice cream sandwich.

You cannot take one example and flush it out as applicable to all situations. I have none to draw upon, so I'll not offer any, but surely, they exist. Not all same sex parents are going to turn out sissified boys, boi-girls, or girl-boys. Not saying I serve as an example of any of the aforementioned *chuckle*

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

You cannot take one example and flush it out as applicable to all situations. I have none to draw upon, so I'll not offer any, but surely, they exist. Not all same sex parents are going to turn out sissified boys, boi-girls, or girl-boys. Not saying I serve as an example of any of the aforementioned *chuckle*

It all depends on whose interests you serve...the kid's best interest or your vanity & self esteem. Most gays are wanting a seal of approval from society.

Lincoln told the tale of the ox who was celebrated by all the farm animals. They got together for a dinner & testimonials, and gave the ox a certificate proclaiming him an honorary bull. When the ox spoke he said he'd rather have balls than all the good wishes.

 

[matriarch]

Boy oh boy, don't we love to maintain our stereotypes.

Dads teach the boys to fight and punch, and be overall nasty and vicious. Mums are just there to wipe the tears, do the laundry, cook the food, and take the little dears to school.

What a load of rubbish, but then I don't know why I expected anything else from JBJ.

 

[matriarch]

I do not thrust my views on anyone. But I do advocate knowledge and learning of all views, and simply choose to share one take on the issue, and yes, it is my view. You may choose to believe as you wish, which you do with zeal.

Esperanza, don't even both arguing with JBJ it's a total and utter waste of time. His opinions are the only ones that count.

 

[Esperanza_Hidalgo]

It all depends on whose interests you serve...the kid's best interest or your vanity & self esteem. Most gays are wanting a seal of approval from society.

Lincoln told the tale of the ox who was celebrated by all the farm animals. They got together for a dinner & testimonials, and gave the ox a certificate proclaiming him an honorary bull. When the ox spoke he said he'd rather have balls than all the good wishes.

Where do you come up with these things? Must admit, they make me laugh.

People, for the most part (though some may say present company excluded and certainly there is room for debate if most are as I suggest) are sentient beings with the ability to process and make rationale decisions. A wise parent is a wise parent, the parents orientation should not matter---That is with the caveat of the parent being wise.

Wise parent will produce good decision making ability in children, again, not applicable to every situation, but as a general rule should apply.

My views may not match the norm for most gay and lesbian couples. Honestly, I just don't know enough about this big old world to venture a guess. I wish my children not to be homophobes, plum rose wearing faeries, sissies or any of those labels that we like to sling at one another. I wish them to be as they are, and hopefully thoughtful good people, strong in view, yet tolerant of a difficult world and willing to make sacrifice and change when needed.

Okay, I'm the resident Pollyanna--who needs to run off and do a bit of work.

May your day and life be peaceful,

Esperanza

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Boy oh boy, don't we love to maintain our stereotypes.

Dads teach the boys to fight and punch, and be overall nasty and vicious. Mums are just there to wipe the tears, do the laundry, cook the food, and take the little dears to school.

What a load of rubbish, but then I don't know why I expected anything else from JBJ.

I just watched a nature show about cheetahs. The photographer kept his ass inside his truck. But It occurred to me that someone like you would be outside with the big cats doing a Baye's Probabilty Analysis to estimate their potential threat for violence. You know you would.

I knew a psychiatrist whose car broke down at night, and she accepted a ride from 6 very drunk guys. I asked her, CLAUDETTE? WHY DID YOU DO THAT? And she said, WELL, YOU CANT ASSUME EVERY DRUNK PERSON IS EVIL. I believe you'd do the same.

Stereotypes keep wise people alive.

 

[Lisa Summers]

I'd like to amend my characterization of JBJ, from "troll" to "loveable old curmudgeon."

He's not here to wreck things, only to give us a different* view of things, accompanied by colorful anecdotes.



*a different century?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I'd like to amend my characterization of JBJ, from "troll" to "loveable old curmudgeon."

He's not here to wreck things, only to give us a different* view of things, accompanied by colorful anecdotes.



*a different century?

But fuck-off anyway, Lisa.

I remain certain youre an ass-clown like all the other Usual Suspects.

And, uh, have a nice day.

 

[Pure]

refs

the news summary in the OP didn't reference the article, so here are the refs and links. it appears to be a kind of meta-analysis.

unfortunately, to get more than the abstract online, you have either to pay 20 bucks, or go through a library.


http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/123248173/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0


Journal of Marriage and Family
Volume 72 Issue 1, Pages 3 - 22 ,

Published Online: 20 Jan 2010


How Does the Gender of Parents Matter?

Timothy J. Biblarz 1 Judith Stacey 2
1 University of Southern California
2 New York University *
Correspondence to Department of Sociology, University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089-2539 (biblarz@usc.edu).

* Department of Sociology, New York University, 295 Lafayette St., 4th floor, New York, NY 10012.

Copyright Copyright © National Council on Family Relations, 2010
KEYWORDS

bisexual • development or outcomes • family structure • fathering • gay • gender • lesbian • parenting and parenthood • transgender

ABSTRACT
Claims that children need both a mother and father presume that women and men parent differently in ways crucial to development but generally rely on studies that conflate gender with other family structure variables. We analyze findings from studies with designs that mitigate these problems by comparing 2-parent families with same or different sex coparents and single-mother with single-father families. Strengths typically associated with married mother-father families appear to the same extent in families with 2 mothers and potentially in those with 2 fathers. Average differences favor women over men, but parenting skills are not dichotomous or exclusive. The gender of parents correlates in novel ways with parent-child relationships but has minor significance for children's psychological adjustment and social success.

==

From another, fuller, news summary.
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2010-01/w-dcn012110.php

[[a couple lines as to specifics and differences:]]


//As the researchers write: "The social science research that is routinely cited does not actually speak to the questions of whether or not children need both a mother and a father at home. Instead proponents generally cite research that compares [heterosexual two-parent] families with single parents, thus conflating the number with the gender of parents."

[the reporter continues:] Indeed, there are far more similarities than differences among children of lesbian and heterosexual parents, according to the study. On average, two mothers tended to play with their children more, were less likely to use physical discipline, and were less likely to raise children with chauvinistic attitudes. Studies of gay male families are still limited.

However, like two heterosexual parents, new parenthood among lesbians increased stress and conflict, exacerbated by general lack of legal recognition of commitment. Also, lesbian biological mothers typically assumed greater caregiving responsibility than their partners, reflecting inequities among heterosexual couples. //

 

[3113]

Esperanza, most of us have JBJ on ignore. It really is pointless and a waste of your breath and time to argue with him, though your views might enlighten others.

Oh, and JBJ, don't fret. I'm sure that the gay man who donated the sperm to the the lesbians for the strapping young lad that they're raising has a part in the boy's life and, as biological dad, will teach him all the things that he needs to know to be a true man, like decorating a home and shopping for the right clothes....

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Men and women do parent differently.

I mean, c'mon! If the pixie who did the study discovered that women suck as parents he sure as shit wouldnt publish the results so he can fuck himself at Pixie Doodle University.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Esperanza, most of us have JBJ on ignore. It really is pointless and a waste of your breath and time to argue with him, though your views might enlighten others.

Oh, and JBJ, don't fret. I'm sure that the gay man who donated the sperm to the the lesbians for the strapping young lad that they're raising has a part in the boy's life and, as biological dad, will teach him all the things that he needs to know to be a true man, like decorating a home and shopping for the right clothes....

No doubt the boy'll become a fine florist one day....or maybe prance about in the ballet.

The problem with IGNORE is, the Usual Suspects wont keep me on IGNORE. I'll bet STELLA chatters at me more than her mother.

 

[PolyLvr]

Children require male & female parents for optimal benefits. For one, females are clueless about boys. And I can't name one male who knows squat about girls.

I believe gays and lesbian couples can make terrific parents. Preferable to single parenting simply for the workload and multiple perspectives angles.

But I believe JBJ's statement here is accurate. There are things I would talk to my Dad about and not to my Mom.
Ideally, the evolved gay or lesbian couple would be (Hmm, I don't want to say normal, but the word I want escapes me) enough that they would have the appropriate friends and family, with the appropriate level of intimacy with the child to help, but I know real life isn't that perfect.

I think at best that study shows that lesbian couples can be adequate, or even exemplary parents. But that wouldn't be as ideal as the presence of an invested and loving invested father and mother.

 

[Lisa Summers]

But fuck-off anyway, Lisa.

I remain certain youre an ass-clown like all the other Usual Suspects.

And, uh, have a nice day.

Ouch. I can see the "loveable" part's going to be a tough slog.

 

[3113]

But that still won't compensate for the absence of an invested father.

SIGH! Look. In the best of all possible worlds no one would be allowed to have kids without going through a psychological profile to prove that they'd be invested 100%, utterly committed, and that they'd have someone there that the child could talk to about anything they might need to talk about. But that's not this world is it? There were things you could talk to your dad about but not your mom? What about that gay boy who knows that he can't talk about the most important thing in his life to either his mom/dad? Should we require that every couple have a gay partner in case their child is gay and needs to talk about such things to someone? Needs a gay person to help them grow up right?

This is THE POINT. Parents are a crap-shoot. And kids aren't guaranteed the perfect mom and dad who they can talk to (one or the other) about everything and anything. They aren't even guaranteed that mom/dad will be around when they need to have that talk. Dad may die, mom may die, dad may NOT be committed, mom may not be committed, or just not able to understand them. All those things they need and want to talk to mom/dad about they may not be able to--and these are kids with a mom/dad.

As a committed dad is not required in order for a couple to have a child--as no one says, "You can't get get your wife pregnant and have a baby without being 100% invested in helping your son grow up to be a man" then it's ridiculous to have this argument about lesbians. Especially as a lesbian couple doesn't have a child by accident; in that family, the child knows that they were very much wanted, not a mistake or an afterthought. As for boys who need a man to talk about those things that they just can't talk to a mom, they'll just have to make due with teachers, coaches, councilors, older friends, uncles, etc. A committed dad may be the best for such things, but we don't get to have everything we want or need in life. Thems the breaks.

I suspect, by the by, that if you asked children of lesbians, they'd probably tell you this: "I love my parents and wouldn't have any other. If I could have had a committed dad instead of one of these two, knowing that one of my moms wouldn't have been there to raise me, love me, care for me, I wouldn't. Being able to talk about those few things with a Dad in exchange for not having both these two as my parents for my entire life would not be worth it."

Our personal experience talking to moms/dads about whatever we couldn't talk to dad/mom about doesn't extend to this child's experience. If they love their lesbian parents, wouldn't have any other, felt they were raised well and turned out right, that's all that really matters. Because in THIS world, that's better than can be said for by most about their upbringing.