Publishers only Publish Women

[sxyoldguy]

Since there seems to be some folks around today I thought I'd thrrow this out there for consumption and disection.

I was lurking in another E forum that seems to be frequented by a fair amount of published authors.

One of them stated that most publishers of erotic works will reject male writers out of hand.

When I looked at the lineup of several, that appears to be the case.

I'm wondering if that's a result of the market, ie more women buy than men;
or if, as the writer suggested, men don't get it enough to write good erotica.

Anybody care to weigh in?

SOG

 

[Stella_Omega]

It seems that the publishers do beleive that women are more likely to be consistently erotic. Erotic writing entails emotions, as well as mechanics, and women are commonly held to be more sensitive and verbal about inner lives-- other people's as well as their own.

I don't think that's always true, but publishers are notorious for keeping to the simplest and safest of formulas, and it took two decades for them to discover this one-- they aren't going to give it up quite yet.

try submitting with a woman's name...

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

The truth is, women do it fior free. Anything they do becomes a pink collar ghetto becuz they'll work cheap.

 

[TxRad]

Like Stella said, all it takes is a female pen name, if you have what they want for material.

 

[Stella_Omega]

From "An established N.Y. literary agent with 20 years experience"
OK, so what's selling is paranormal romance and young adult fiction. And, as I've said countless times, you can never have too many vampire novels, with zombies following close behind. And don't forget to set those paranormal YA romances during the vampire/zombie apocalypse (seriously).

However, it's become increasingly difficult to sell any genre fiction from a male protagonist's perspective, unless he's really hot. But even if he's a really hot teen vampire, it's better to tell the story from a female point of view. If you have a male character, I'd almost suggest that you change the gender of your main character to sell a novel in this climate.

And as far as erotica goes, it is nearly impossible to sell any sexually explicit material from the male point of view, unless it's gay or M/M.

I have never seen a time in publishing where women's tastes have driven the market. I'm hoping that it produces a whole new crop of books that are unique (and profitable for all).

 

[shabbu]

I have no trouble getting erotica published--and I am a combination of two male writers. And neither of the two making up me have had any trouble getting published in erotica separately either. And one of us has lots of red Hs and a some green Es here for the whole gamut of erotica writing--and has a story topping the current 30-day Nonerotica top-rated list.

I don't think generalizations hold here. If statistically more writers being published are woman, it's most likely that more woman are writing erotica than men are.

 

[Guest]

deleted

 

[glynndah]

It's because we have tits.

Everything is because we have tits.

 

[TheeGoatPig]

Even as a man, I prefer reading stories from a woman's perspective more than a male's. Most times I don't even read stories from a male perspective unless I am really having trouble finding something else worth reading. It's a last resort for me, and as such I write from third person or a female perspective, but never the man's, even though I am a man (even though I don't think I have submitted any female perspective stories yet ).

 

[WRJames]

The hottest thing we (Club Lighthouse Publishing) have going right now is the Matter of Time series -- written by a women (at least ostensibly) but featuring a gay protaginist. That seems to be a very hot combination right now, even more so than vampires, and another one of our lady authors is weighing in with a little gay romance of her own.

We publish a lot of men, but mostly not erotica. Maybe we should give them all feminine pen names and see if that sells better.

There are authors with an extremely male point of view, for example Powerone, who seem to do pretty well.

 

[LaRocha]

I have no trouble getting erotica published--and I am a combination of two male writers. And neither of the two making up me have had any trouble getting published in erotica separately either. And one of us has lots of red Hs and a some green Es here for the whole gamut of erotica writing--and has a story topping the current 30-day Nonerotica top-rated list.

I don't think generalizations hold here. If statistically more writers being published are woman, it's most likely that more woman are writing erotica than men are.

Aren't all your stories Gay Male? Under your combo name and as pilot? I think the opposite would be true for Gay Male stories, a female would have to write under a man's name to sell Gay Male stories to men. Of course there would be exceptions for every possible generalization we can come up with...

If a female pen name outsells a man's, which it probably does in erotica, just go with the female name. Most writers are good enough that the reader won't have a clue what the real sex of the author is.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I have no trouble getting erotica published--and I am a combination of two male writers. And neither of the two making up me have had any trouble getting published in erotica separately either. And one of us has lots of red Hs and a some green Es here for the whole gamut of erotica writing--and has a story topping the current 30-day Nonerotica top-rated list.

I don't think generalizations hold here. If statistically more writers being published are woman, it's most likely that more woman are writing erotica than men are.

Hi Shabbu, are you talking about "real" book publishing, or about sites like this one?

 

[WRJames]

Aren't all your stories Gay Male? Under your combo name and as pilot? I think the opposite would be true for Gay Male stories, a female would have to write under a man's name to sell Gay Male stories to men. Of course there would be exceptions for every possible generalization we can come up with...

If a female pen name outsells a man's, which it probably does in erotica, just go with the female name. Most writers are good enough that the reader won't have a clue what the real sex of the author is.

Oh -- au contraire. The hot thing right now is gay romance written by women -- for women.

 

[LaRocha]

Oh -- au contraire. The hot thing right now is gay romance written by women -- for women.

Tell me more about this, what's the appeal? Still, aren't most of the consumers of gay male porn, gay males? Do they like the stories written by women?

 

[sr71plt]

Aren't all your stories Gay Male? Under your combo name and as pilot?

No. I (sr71plt) have more stories posted here that aren't GM than 95 percent of those posting stories to Lit. have on their lists altogether--and all of these are well covered with both H's and E's. And I have several published erotica works that aren't GM as well. (Feel free to check it out for yourself.)

I haven't had anything I've tried to have published rejected at all--let alone because of the subject matter or that I was a male author.

If someone is having trouble getting erotica published, I think it is their writing, not their gender, that can be fingered for that.

 

[sr71plt]

Tell me more about this, what's the appeal? Still, aren't most of the consumers of gay male porn, gay males? Do they like the stories written by women?

I think that what was quoted on this is basically true. But I also think that woman struggle at writing authentic GM--especially in search of GM readers (and most particularly because of fundamental misunderstandings of what "nonconsent" means to a woman as opposed to a man who really is actively gay). And although I think woman might read GM material by other women in great abundance (with neither one of them really understanding the fundamentals of GM--just fantacizing them), my mail indicates that there is no shortage either of female readers for the GM that I write.

 

[WRJames]

Tell me more about this, what's the appeal? Still, aren't most of the consumers of gay male porn, gay males? Do they like the stories written by women?

I am as baffled as you are. We put out this Matter of Time Series and it's been selling like hotcakes. The sales on our site (which are the only ones we can tell who bought it) are mostly women.

The author sent us this article.

 

[LaRocha]

I am as baffled as you are. We put out this Matter of Time Series and it's been selling like hotcakes. The sales on our site (which are the only ones we can tell who bought it) are mostly women.

The author sent us this article.

Maybe it just goes with the standard idea that women buy erotic fiction and men buy erotic visuals. I can see how any well thought out depiction of sexuality, lust and love, matched with quality storytelling might appeal to the women who read erotica. Men have a tougher time with alternatives to their everyday fantasies. Erotic elasticity of mind? Just making stuff up now. Anyway, I read all your guys' stories.

 

[Lisa Summers]

I once edited a collection of erotic stories for a particular straight/lesbian erotic romance story site. In soliciting authors to use their stories, I got a tremendous response from male authors, and a very poor response from female authors.

I don't draw any lessons from that, only that it seemed like an apropos tidbit to throw into this thread.

 

[sr71plt]

Maybe it just goes with the standard idea that women buy erotic fiction and men buy erotic visuals. I can see how any well thought out depiction of sexuality, lust and love, matched with quality storytelling might appeal to the women who read erotica. Men have a tougher time with alternatives to their everyday fantasies. Erotic elasticity of mind? Just making stuff up now. Anyway, I read all your guys' stories.

I think much of "it," rather, is a function of counting readers (or not). I think something like "men have a tougher time with alternatives" is more "seems like" supposition than any sort of truth. But I think it's pretty true from detailed observation of actual ebb and flow here that male readers--especially GM readers--do more just coming/reading/going away and less coming/reading/voting/somehow commenting/going away than female readers do. Unless there's a device in play on the "views" or "purchase" function that can distinguish female from male clickers, I don't think you can make any conclusions based on either the voting or comment functions here or anywhere else.

And, back on the main thread topic, as one who works in publishing, I think publishers look at the content first and the gender of the writer later or not much at all.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Tell me more about this, what's the appeal? Still, aren't most of the consumers of gay male porn, gay males? Do they like the stories written by women?

There are a whole bunch of ways that 'slash' fiction appeals to women. One of the simplest is that it's more fun to be a hero in genre fiction, than it is to be a heroine.

Another is that for a woman who really likes men, two men are better than one

As for whether or not gay men like women-written gay erotica, it will, of course, depend on the reader-- and on the literary quality of the writer. There are several women who, gay men say, write very authentically, but they are not the norm. Most don't, as sr71plt notes. The reason is that they really aren't writing for or about men; they really are writing for the romance market, and they don't care about authenticity, anymore than they do when they write hetero bodice ripper romances-- blech.

 

[Ann Vremont]

I haven't read through the replies, so apologies if I'm repeating anyone - Samhain Publishing, Ellora's Cave, Changeling Press all have some male authors (although predominantly female). Some, however, are men writing with female pen names. I know Dr. Mabeuse has published at both Ellora's Cave and Harlequin's Spice. I know of only one publisher that will not allow males to submit - that was Virgin's Black Lace, which I think also went out of business. And, even then, Virgin had another erotica line men could submit to (Nexis, I think). Michael Hemmingson has erotica under MH and then female pen name for romance (possibly erotic romance).

So don't be afraid to sub - they may want you to use a female or ambiugous pen name if you're writing erotic romance, particularly if you're a little edgy (read leaning to harsh or disrespectful) in your treatment of women - like JW McKenna, who does heavy BDSM. Yeah, there are female readers who like to read the harsh/disrespectful stuff, but some of them feel better about their reading choices if they think it's written by a female. Go figure :-D

 

[Ann Vremont]

edited out - I was posting link WRJames posted on the la weekly article

 

[Stella_Omega]

edited out - I was posting link WRJames posted on the la weekly article

That article is so funny and so accurate! And the more I look at the artwork, the harder I laugh...

 

[cloudy]

That article is so funny and so accurate! And the more I look at the artwork, the harder I laugh...

Isn't "James Buchanan" one of ours????

(damn, can't quite grasp what her name was here)