Interracial Doesn't Have to be Reductive

[SimonDoom]

no, you're all septics when you're over here.

I'm not familiar with this term in this context. What does that mean?

 

[MillieDynamite]

Skeptics maybe.

I'm not familiar with this term in this context. What does that mean?

 

[Kumquatqueen]

Skeptics maybe.

Nope. It's rhyming slang - seppo (especially from Australians) or septic = septic tank = Yank, i.e. any American.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

As someone for whom this is a second language, I find this quibbling over words amusing and a little endearing.

Outside of English, "race" and "breed" are indeed often covered by the same term. In turn, "human race" may be a completely nonsensical expression, since humans (Homo sapiens) are obviously an entire species. The term "race" is not particularly precise and carries some historical baggage with it, but it refers to real and easily perceived differences between groups of people.
Yes, the boundaries are fuzzy, but doesn't negate the concept's existence. No one (I hope) questions the applicability of "blondes" as a classifier just because it's not clear how dark a blonde can get before her hair is better described as "strawberry" or "walnut" or just "brown."

English can vary more than some people think. For all it's development, it doesn't seem as structured as other languages.

That's what I'm saying. I get why people say human race, but it comes off as a missnomer to me, and it would be better to say we're all the same species, which is far more truth than saying we're all the same race. We're the same species, not the same race, even among people within the same... ah dunno... racial profile can be different, like Chinese and Indian, both of which are Asian races.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

I know this will never happen, but I would love for this dialog to take place in the context of an IR story, where the characters suddenly start debating what qualifies as race, ethnicity, culture, etc. Like, it starts out as a very "by the numbers" IR story. Just as it gets to the action, all the characters start deconstructing the genre and talking about fuzzy limits of race, ethnicity, biases, the unfairness of those biases, the natural and socially constructed limits of those definitions.

I'm sure it'd be get a low rating, but I think it'd be so, so great.

I could see it not being an erotica story, like maybe some liberal arguing with... anybody else. A romance at best. I'm not even sure Laurel would allow such social politics or not.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

Ah dude, the ABC/ARC neutral accent is totally a thing... it drives me crazy that I can't define it. I wish I could put my finger on what makes it "that way" but I can't... maybe it's like... the pronunciation are a bit too precise? Or it's a slight emphasis on certain vowels in certain words that others don't use?

Nuetral accents are what they push news emoloyees to use, such as anchors and weather people in some countries. Some people call it the news accent, or something like that. Some people just develop one, like say americanized immigrants(or is it emagrants?) decendants. Most accents come from regional enviroments and the way a non-native language is spoken. At least that's my assumption.

I happen to have a nuetral accent of sorts to the point people don't know where I'm from. Most of my family never had a southern accent either, and there is no single southern accent, it varies from state to state and even region to region in a state. People in Kentucky don't sound like Texans and Louisianites(or whatever they're called), and people in Louisville or Lexington don't sound like people from Paduca, Ashland, the Appalachians, or Hazard.

I was watching somebody from Australia--might've been a comedian, say his wife is British and they're gonna have a kid, or just had one. Makes me wonder what accent the kid will have, despite the Australian accent being somewhat of a derivative. I like accents, I met this teen a few years back from a spanish speaking country, he went to a private high school here, and where friends with a lot of white folks who he told me kept trying to get him to "sound white", or as we often call it; code switching. I told him to keep his accent, it's part of his heritage and shit and if they were real friends they wouldn'f be saying that seriously, and would accept him for him. If I had that kinda shit, I would hold on to it.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

Accents and dialects are crucial, to the extent that most Brits can and regularly do dial them up and down the social scale, depending on their surroundings.

Us black folks call that code switching.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

Nope. It's rhyming slang - seppo (especially from Australians) or septic = septic tank = Yank, i.e. any American.

Sounds like the aussie version of cockney expressions and slang. Yall just see an american, where within don't matter much. In a way I appreciate that whether it be good or bad, because here, you can be judged by where you come from. Somebody in Cali might think I'm some country dumbass because I'm from Kentucky. I remember once we went to St. Louis, we were talking to some people and told them we were from Louisville. One asked if we owned a horse. Had to explain how it was the biggest city in the state.

Yank here was mostly used to describe northern folks rather duragatory in the early days of the country, some don't get that at least in the uk and au, that it just equals american. Incidentally... when I had my Crown Victoria Police Interceptor, I nicknamed it the Yank Tank, as Jeremy Clarkson would've called it. The only qualifier they miss is having a big lazy v8, but they are over six feet wide, even without the sideview/wing mirrors and are 17'6" long. I don't know what that is in metric... a little over six meters long, maybe?

 

[MillieDynamite]

Yanks, rednecks, yokels, yahoos (not the search engine), hoods, gangbangers, hicks in the sticks, and a host of other names for folks around various parts of the USA. Florida fondly calls turisit gator bate.

Sounds like the aussie version of cockney expressions and slang. Yall just see an american, where within don't matter much. In a way I appreciate that whether it be good or bad, because here, you can be judged by where you come from. Somebody in Cali might think I'm some country dumbass because I'm from Kentucky. I remember once we went to St. Louis, we were talking to some people and told them we were from Louisville. One asked if we owned a horse. Had to explain how it was the biggest city in the state.

Yank here was mostly used to describe northern folks rather duragatory in the early days of the country, some don't get that at least in the uk and au, that it just equals american. Incidentally... when I had my Crown Victoria Police Interceptor, I nicknamed it the Yank Tank, as Jeremy Clarkson would've called it. The only qualifier they miss is having a big lazy v8, but they are over six feet wide, even without the sideview/wing mirrors and are 17'6" long. I don't know what that is in metric... a little over six meters long, maybe?

 

[Bramblethorn]

Sounds like the aussie version of cockney expressions and slang.

Yep. Australia has a few others like that e.g. "take a butcher's" (take a look, from "butcher's hook") but "septic"/"seppo" is about the only one I hear at all often.

Yank here was mostly used to describe northern folks rather duragatory in the early days of the country, some don't get that at least in the uk and au, that it just equals american. Incidentally... when I had my Crown Victoria Police Interceptor, I nicknamed it the Yank Tank, as Jeremy Clarkson would've called it. The only qualifier they miss is having a big lazy v8, but they are over six feet wide, even without the sideview/wing mirrors and are 17'6" long. I don't know what that is in metric... a little over six meters long, maybe?

17'6" would be about 5.3 metres; a metre is a little longer than a yard.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

Yep. Australia has a few others like that e.g. "take a butcher's" (take a look, from "butcher's hook") but "septic"/"seppo" is about the only one I hear at all often.



17'6" would be about 5.3 metres; a metre is a little longer than a yard.

I knew it just a bit more than a yard, but not how much. Thank you, though. Numbers aren't my strong suit.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

but they are over six feet wide, even without the sideview/wing mirrors and are 17'6" long. I don't know what that is in metric... a little over six meters long, maybe?

Lengths of 33 feet upwards are given in double-decker buses, until you get to the length of a football pitch or a blue whale. So you could say half a double-decker bus, or 3 feet longer than a Transit van.

After reading lots of US crime fiction, I conclude that a Crown Vic is a cop car and a Lincoln is a taxi car, yes? Do these manufacturers not make domestic cars at all?

Us black folks call that code switching.

I suppose - I think of code switching as a more conscious switch between two different dialects (see any local school with kids talking strong sarf London with various roadman influences, then changing to more respectable English with various national influences to speak to their parents), as opposed to a constant slide up and down a social scale, but it's a similar thing in that people more secure of their place in the hierarchy do it less.

An English accent in America gets mixed responses - lots of 'that sounds lovely but I didn't understand a word', to being charmed in some cities or totally unaffected in others (I guess NYC and Chicago have seen everything), to the thankfully rare "get back to your own country" (and once, a refusal to accept my US passport was mine... that was a fun hour at Immigration, not).

 

[Kumquatqueen]

Yanks, rednecks, yokels, yahoos (not the search engine), hoods, gangbangers, hicks in the sticks, and a host of other names for folks around various parts of the USA. Florida fondly calls turisit gator bate.

And our good friend Florida Man. A cousin of mine had lived in Florida a while then back to his home state. The family joke that this has lowered the IQ of both states...

 

[M_K_Babalon]

Lengths of 33 feet upwards are given in double-decker buses, until you get to the length of a football pitch or a blue whale. So you could say half a double-decker bus, or 3 feet longer than a Transit van.

After reading lots of US crime fiction, I conclude that a Crown Vic is a cop car and a Lincoln is a taxi car, yes? Do these manufacturers not make domestic cars at all?


I suppose - I think of code switching as a more conscious switch between two different dialects (see any local school with kids talking strong sarf London with various roadman influences, then changing to more respectable English with various national influences to speak to their parents), as opposed to a constant slide up and down a social scale, but it's a similar thing in that people more secure of their place in the hierarchy do it less.

An English accent in America gets mixed responses - lots of 'that sounds lovely but I didn't understand a word', to being charmed in some cities or totally unaffected in others (I guess NYC and Chicago have seen everything), to the thankfully rare "get back to your own country" (and once, a refusal to accept my US passport was mine... that was a fun hour at Immigration, not).

The Crown Victoria, Town Car, and Grand Marquis sit on the Panther platform, the last american body on frame cars. The Vic was fords option for a police car, currently it was the Taurus, is still the Explorer, Expedition and F150. Lincoln is a personal luxury brand, the Town Car has always been available to the public as the Marquis was. It is used as a personal limo or private car to pick people up from airports and ect. An example would be in How I Met Your Mother; Barney's company driver used one.

The Crown Victoria has packages, P71 is the police package(P7B for 09-11) LX, P72 is the civilian LX, P73 is the civilian LX Sport, P74 is the extended wheel base(about 3" longer in the rear) LX Taxi model. P71 and P74 are fleet/base model cars. The P71/7B are badged Police Interceptor, not Crown Victoria, same as the Taurus. One could order a Vic with the police package up until 2008 when the Crown Victoria was made a fleet only car.

The CVPI came with bigger sway bars, a rear swaybar, heavy duty brakes and suspension, a metal matrix or aluminum driveshaft, variable power steering, non resonated stainless dual exhaust, 17" wheels, 240 hp, or 250hp for 05-11, to the civilians 230 with bigger airbox and throttlebody, 120amp alternator, different transmission and ecu tunes, oil cooler, the transmission has an 11" torque convertor instead of a 10", with optional single or dual spotlight, black honeycomb grille made standard, the chrome slot grille was optional from 98 to about 02ish, the Street Appearance Package recieved either a body colored or black slot grille and honeycomb grille was optional. There are more retired police models as taxis than the taxi model.

Town Cars are not used as taxis, but sometimes one might find a random Grand Marquis used as one. GM often used the Impala as their police option code 9C1, replaced with the Caprice PPV(Police Pursuit Vehicle) based off a Holden Monaro I believe, like the Pontic G8. The civvy version had a shorter wheelbase simply called the SS. Dodge once used the Intrepid, but wasn't really in the game until they reintroduced the Charger. The police model is called Charger Pursuit, some are awd with either the v6 or 5.7 Hemi. Currently I think GMs only option is the Tahoe and Silverado.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

Lengths of 33 feet upwards are given in double-decker buses, until you get to the length of a football pitch or a blue whale. So you could say half a double-decker bus, or 3 feet longer than a Transit van.

After reading lots of US crime fiction, I conclude that a Crown Vic is a cop car and a Lincoln is a taxi car, yes? Do these manufacturers not make domestic cars at all?


I suppose - I think of code switching as a more conscious switch between two different dialects (see any local school with kids talking strong sarf London with various roadman influences, then changing to more respectable English with various national influences to speak to their parents), as opposed to a constant slide up and down a social scale, but it's a similar thing in that people more secure of their place in the hierarchy do it less.

An English accent in America gets mixed responses - lots of 'that sounds lovely but I didn't understand a word', to being charmed in some cities or totally unaffected in others (I guess NYC and Chicago have seen everything), to the thankfully rare "get back to your own country" (and once, a refusal to accept my US passport was mine... that was a fun hour at Immigration, not).

That's basically what code switching is. The way you'd talk to your friends is not the same way you'd talk to get a job, or talk to a judge.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

That's basically what code switching is. The way you'd talk to your friends is not the same way you'd talk to get a job, or talk to a judge.

That's more a change of register (choice of words), unless you are suppressing one dialect and/or accent in favour of another when doing it, which is often the case (when it would be code switching).

The UK situation often has people speaking to different neighbours and shop staff and colleagues in different dialects and accents - mostly unconsciously, but sometimes the impossibility makes you notice, like if I meet a local childminder and parent at the same time, the former stretching her solid south London working class dialect up to respectable middle class, posh mum blunting vowels and not using words like 'loo', and my speech lurching from one to the other!

A big cultural difference is the amount of wordplay that's simply expected in conversation, and news headlines. I'd never heard anyone before March 2000 refer to an illness as a Miley, but when my neighbour did, the expectation was that I'd figure it out (Miley Cyrus = virus = Covid - it's not used for other illnesses, so far). I told him I was old enough to have caught the Billy Ray version. If you're with friends in the pub and don't try to catch on to what people are doing with words, they'll write you off as either stupid or snobby. Or foreign, in which case you get a pass and are allowed to ask for clarification, at least for a decade or two. Actively trying to confuse others is all part of the great game.

 

[SimonDoom]

A big cultural difference is the amount of wordplay that's simply expected in conversation, and news headlines. I'd never heard anyone before March 2000 refer to an illness as a Miley, but when my neighbour did, the expectation was that I'd figure it out (Miley Cyrus = virus = Covid - it's not used for other illnesses, so far). I told him I was old enough to have caught the Billy Ray version. If you're with friends in the pub and don't try to catch on to what people are doing with words, they'll write you off as either stupid or snobby. Or foreign, in which case you get a pass and are allowed to ask for clarification, at least for a decade or two. Actively trying to confuse others is all part of the great game.

I've seen recordings of exchanges in Parliament and I'm often impressed at the display of impromptu wit. It's almost impossible to imagine it in the US Senate. The Brits seem to value wit more.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I've seen recordings of exchanges in Parliament and I'm often impressed at the display of impromptu wit. It's almost impossible to imagine it in the US Senate. The Brits seem to value wit more.

Paul Keating (Treasurer under Bob Hawke in the eighties and PM in the nineties) was our greatest parliamentary wit, and lethal with it. Julia Gillard (PM in the early 10s) could serve up a good line, too. Our current lot are all a bit po-faced these days, which is a shame.

 

[MillieDynamite]

So you're saying we're full of shit!

Nope. It's rhyming slang - seppo (especially from Australians) or septic = septic tank = Yank, i.e. any American.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

I've seen recordings of exchanges in Parliament and I'm often impressed at the display of impromptu wit. It's almost impossible to imagine it in the US Senate. The Brits seem to value wit more.

There's a constant underflow of expected but barely acknowledged wit that's part of small talk. It is impossible to walk past someone washing their car without saying "Can you do mine next?" or for anyone to drop a drink in a pub without applause and calls of "Sack the juggler!"

Panel shows are very popular in the UK, and I'm told they don't exist in the US - imagine a quiz show with a host and two or three minor celebs on each side, only the real objective isn't to win but to be funny. Cheap to make, and no end of talent. It's not that Americans can't be witty and funny - see Whose Line is it Anyway? for example - but it's like Germany in that there is a Time and a Place to be humorous. Other times are Serious. In the UK all the time is for humour, and the more serious, the more jokes.

And yes, Parliament is generally good for a few good jokes a day, even if written by speechwriters in advance where the Minister has written Insert Joke Here. Some MPs do great banter, like Dennis Skinner and his jibes at every Opening of Parliament - though the famous line attributed to him isn't actually correct (a similar joke is):

Skinner (allegedly) - Half the Tories opposite are crooks!
The Speaker: Withdraw that remark.
Skinner: OK, half the Tories opposite are not crooks...

 

[Bramblethorn]

Paul Keating (Treasurer under Bob Hawke in the eighties and PM in the nineties) was our greatest parliamentary wit, and lethal with it. Julia Gillard (PM in the early 10s) could serve up a good line, too. Our current lot are all a bit po-faced these days, which is a shame.

Some are unintentionally funny, but it's not the same.

It's hard to go past Gough Whitlam's immortal exchange with a rural MP who said "I am a country member". Whitlam promptly replied "I remember".

I suppose - I think of code switching as a more conscious switch between two different dialects (see any local school with kids talking strong sarf London with various roadman influences, then changing to more respectable English with various national influences to speak to their parents), as opposed to a constant slide up and down a social scale, but it's a similar thing in that people more secure of their place in the hierarchy do it less.

As I understand it, the way "code switching" is used in linguistics is different from everyday use.

In linguistics, it means shifting between languages within a single conversation. A classic example is a bilingual household where somebody might start out speaking in English, then switch to Spanish when they can't recall the English word for something, and keep on in Spanish mode until something puts them back into English mode.

This is different from the non-academic use which is more about changing languages/dialects/registers between one conversation and another. But it seems quite apt that it means different things in different contexts; one of those self-illustrating words.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

There's a constant underflow of expected but barely acknowledged wit that's part of small talk. It is impossible to walk past someone washing their car without saying "Can you do mine next?" or for anyone to drop a drink in a pub without applause and calls of "Sack the juggler!"

Panel shows are very popular in the UK, and I'm told they don't exist in the US - imagine a quiz show with a host and two or three minor celebs on each side, only the real objective isn't to win but to be funny. Cheap to make, and no end of talent. It's not that Americans can't be witty and funny - see Whose Line is it Anyway? for example - but it's like Germany in that there is a Time and a Place to be humorous. Other times are Serious. In the UK all the time is for humour, and the more serious, the more jokes.

And yes, Parliament is generally good for a few good jokes a day, even if written by speechwriters in advance where the Minister has written Insert Joke Here. Some MPs do great banter, like Dennis Skinner and his jibes at every Opening of Parliament - though the famous line attributed to him isn't actually correct (a similar joke is):

Skinner (allegedly) - Half the Tories opposite are crooks!
The Speaker: Withdraw that remark.
Skinner: OK, half the Tories opposite are not crooks...

I've always wanted to reach the levels of Groucho Marx and Hawkeye Pierce(Alan Ida; M.A.S.H.) in wit.