D/s and health care

[rakess]

I'm a nurse and I was reading about strongly patriarchal societies and the women's health care issues involved. In these societies the husband makes all of the health care decisions for his wife, and sometimes not in her interest. A lot of times the women don't protest because they can't or because they believe that his decisions are right because of their culture. Essentially the issue comes down to the line between respecting a culture and protesting human rights violations (even if the woman may not realize). All that said, I started thinking about D/s relationships, and what would happen if I had to care for a couple who was living this lifestyle. How would one go about ensuring that the woman (or man) is getting the care that she needs and wants without disrespecting their life choices. Any thoughts? I realize that there are probably very few people who live d/s this intensely, but I thought I'd ask. One more questions! Let's say I'm caring for a man or woman who has some serious morning after marks (bruises, lash marks, etcs). My first thought is oh my gosh, let's talk to the charge nurse and the social worker. What would be an appropriate way to ask about them without humiliating the couple?

That was long winded.

 

[insert____here]

wow, good question....

i would suggest just asking directly if you are sure the couple in question is heavily in to ithat lifestyle. if it was serious enough to actually have to come to hospital, then clearly it went beyond their usual "safe" limit and they didn't have the kit to deal with it at home. as a nurse i would probably give them a small lecture on the possibilty of permanent damage with that kind of heavy play.
if the person with the marks isn't afraid to tell you where they came from then i would suggest it's ok, and probably just went a little over the top. if the person who gave the marks isn't afraid to tell you how many and with what, i would say the same.
if either party seems hesitant, and you are relatively sure they participate in an "alternative" lifestyle, then it may just be that they don't want to be judged. let them know you are open or non judgemental of that lifestyle and you may get a more relaxed couple.
if the partern brought his / her s.o in for treatment it's becasue they couldn't do it themsleves and are willing to hand over to the professionals. they are probably quite worried and want what is best for their s.o. so whatever treatment you give will probably be welcomed with relief.

that is of course, provided neither person is displaying the emotional signs of "abuse" that you as a nurse are probably well used to seeing and recognise quite well.

any more practised people want to chime in on this one??? it's something some of us may have to deal with, and a more experienced comeback would be welcome

 

[CutieMouse]

Note:
PYL = Dom/Top/Master
pyl=submissive/bottom/slave

All that said, I started thinking about D/s relationships, and what would happen if I had to care for a couple who was living this lifestyle. How would one go about ensuring that the woman (or man) is getting the care that she needs and wants without disrespecting their life choices.

Something to think about is that [IMO] the vast majority of the time PYLs are looking out for the best interest/health of their pyl. Personally, I suck at taking care of myself. I just do.

But get a PYL type person I respect in the picture? I might not get it done in the promised amount of time, but I get it done. (Most recently it was an exam I'd been putting off for about a year. ) I might be okay with disappointing myself, but I'm not okay with dissapointing someone I care about and respect.

Any thoughts? I realize that there are probably very few people who live d/s this intensely, but I thought I'd ask. One more questions! Let's say I'm caring for a man or woman who has some serious morning after marks (bruises, lash marks, etcs). My first thought is oh my gosh, let's talk to the charge nurse and the social worker. What would be an appropriate way to ask about them without humiliating the couple?

That was long winded.

In the instance of seeing bruising/etc - most people I've heard talk of such things try to either time things so they don't have fresh marks around the time of an appointment, make a point to see a kink-aware professional, or bring it up first (BTW I know there's some bruising on my thigh/etc; no worries - my partner and I just enjoy rough sex).

 

[PertPerth]

the vast majority of the time PYLs are looking out for the best interest/health of their pyl.

Because the PYL values his/her pyl where as in the societies where (generally) women are virtually valueless. A man will go to jail for stealing or killing a sheep, but not for stealing or killing a female. Where as in a PYL/pyl relationship, the PYL will care for the pyl just like any other piece of property - such as ensuring their car is serviced regularly.

 

[CutieMouse]

Where as in a PYL/pyl relationship, the PYL will care for the pyl just like any other piece of property - such as ensuring their car is serviced regularly.

Sooooo tempted to ask what model/make of car I get to be.

 

[Netzach]

I'm a nurse and I was reading about strongly patriarchal societies and the women's health care issues involved. In these societies the husband makes all of the health care decisions for his wife, and sometimes not in her interest. A lot of times the women don't protest because they can't or because they believe that his decisions are right because of their culture. Essentially the issue comes down to the line between respecting a culture and protesting human rights violations (even if the woman may not realize). All that said, I started thinking about D/s relationships, and what would happen if I had to care for a couple who was living this lifestyle. How would one go about ensuring that the woman (or man) is getting the care that she needs and wants without disrespecting their life choices. Any thoughts? I realize that there are probably very few people who live d/s this intensely, but I thought I'd ask. One more questions! Let's say I'm caring for a man or woman who has some serious morning after marks (bruises, lash marks, etcs). My first thought is oh my gosh, let's talk to the charge nurse and the social worker. What would be an appropriate way to ask about them without humiliating the couple?

That was long winded.

The standard health worker "do you feel safe in your environment?" when the pt is alone works well, I would think. Look at the marks, too. If they're deliberate and specific you know they're probably not the result of angry flailing randomness - a healthcare worker I know has to explain cupping and ritual markings to his cohorts all the time let alone SM.

 

[eastern sun]

A couple thoughts - it's unfortunately very likely that some people won't seek medical attention, even if they need it.

In cases and cultures where men make the medical decisions, if you can appeal to the man's interest in keeping her alive, it may be helpful. Frequently, even if the men do not value her life per se, they are dependent on her labor. On the other hand, if she has become just another mouth to feed, and can be replaced by a younger, healthier girl, he may withhold treatment as unnecessary expense.

Sometimes, depending on the culture, you can appeal to religious beliefs that support charitable action. (That is one of the reasons we all came up with religion in the first place, isn't it?) But you would need to be familiar with the culture and the specific values you can appeal to.

In my own M/s relationship, my husband makes me go to the doctor much more frequently than I would otherwise. I have raised red flags, especially among the younger (less experienced) gynecologists in the practice I go too. And the judgement I've felt has definitely made me less willing to go the next time.

On the other hand, there are a few older women in the practice who size me up non-verbally if I present something suspicious. I can see them watching me, and I am always relieved when they ask a few questions about "my relationship with my husband" that I can answer with a wink, "my stress levels," "my children" and the course of this casual interrogation puts everyone at ease.

I also completely avoid doctors and hospitals, if at all possible, though I recognize that is not necessarily good advice. My husband has medical training.

 

[eastern sun]

Women also are more likely to take their children to the doctor than themselves. I have frequently asked general questions of my pediatrician, and in cultures where women's health is not inherently valued, approaching them through their children may be more effective.

 

[StrayKat]

I cant say much about BDSM since I have little real life experience. I can just pop in this thread and mention what I went through in country that does have laws that protect women formally, but literally they are rarely applied in some parts of the country.

I went to see a physician with black eye and some other visible bruises that were product of domestic violence and I was totally disregarded since I didnt have any life threatening damage.

I had police come to my house and tell both me and my ex to cool off or we will be reported for "disturbing the peace" or some similar crap. We were told to take care they were never called again over such mundane matters. Mundane matters being my drunk ex husband attacking me with a knife and me defending myself with broken beer bottle and nearly slicing his throat off. The one who called the police in first place was my older daughter who locked herself and her sister in the bedroom.

Now mind, if I lived in a big city I am sure those things would be dealt with properly but unfortunately I lived in small town in pretty patriarchal area.

So, from my point of view, showing some real interest and concern over such things should not be humiliating if you are careful and respectful in your inquiry.

 

[catalina_francisco]

In terms of culture, my advice is to not assume everyone wants to live by the standards and practices you do in your culture. There may be some women in cultural situations they are not happy with, but just because such things would be deemed as inappropriate and abusive in our own culture does not make it right to then make assumptions from that standpoint and force our values onto others. Perhaps if some lived more by the live and let live philosophy, there would not be so many lives being senselessly extinguished in the name of democracy and liberty.

Similarly, in terms of dealing with abused women, the worst thing you can do is assume you know what is best for them and act accordingly. Asking can create more trauma for the woman once out of range of protection from others, and automatically calling in a social worker can also create more risk depending on the experience, knowledge, and approach of that worker. My advive in both these situations is to fully educate yourself first, with your mind open to accepting things which may not paticularly sit well with you but allow you to help those who honestly want help. Education is the first step, being able to apply it without bias is the next and most important.

Catalina

 

[eastern sun]

My advice in both these situations is to fully educate yourself first, with your mind open to accepting things which may not paticularly sit well with you but allow you to help those who honestly want help. Education is the first step, being able to apply it without bias is the next and most important.

Excellent advice.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I would also add, your language and what you say can be more damaging than your behaviour or attitude in some situations. For instnce, my specialty is working in Domestic Violence...I had the misfortune to work with others who did not see anything wrong with telling rape victims to stop describing what had happened as it made them sick; telling abused women that they did not understand why they hadn't suicided as they could not imagine going on living if the same had been done to them etc. I know what effect this had on some of these women on the receiving end as they told me when I took them on while their worker was on holidays....they always asked to remain my client even after the workers retruned from vacation....no wonder.

So though it may be a personal view or feeling, voicing it or how you say something can have detrimental effect, and even lose you the opportunity to help someone genuinely in need and previously open to help. Another thing worth noting when dealing with a possible DV victim is that just by mentioning it, you can drive them in the opposite direction and straight back to the abuser. Many women in this situation, especially if still living with the abuser, will defend them to the death if someone says or hints at anything negative about the abuser. It doesn't mean they want the abuse to continue, but they also are not in a place where they are ready to let a stranger say anything against the abuser. Understanding the psychology behind these emotions can be invalueable.

The team leader I worked with also told staff to put anyone threatening suicide on the phone on hold and hope they hung up before the worker went back to check 10-15 minutes later, and that anyone who claimed to be into S&M was a victim of abuse who just didn't know it yet. She also said she could never go through getting a degree in social work as it was too hard...not surprising.

Catalina

 

[rakess]

Good advice everyone! It's hard because even though you prepare you think with an open mind, so many thoughts and behaviors are conditioned and automatic, that you really have to be care. DV is a very touchy topic. Thanks for getting me thinking...