"Can a Boy Wear a Skirt to School?"

[Katyusha]

I thought this article was worth spreading around. I did not attend Rincon High School myself but I grew up in Tucson and was friends with many students who did, and I'm proud that they (along with other schools around the country) are starting to find ways to protect self-expression.

 

[lance gt]

It's interesting where the problem places are and the ones that aren't. If it was Scotland or the Isles anywhere this article was in, it would be a laugh. Hawaiian men wear wraps, as do Polynisian men, Indians, Africans and so on. A dress is no more a woman's garment, as it is a man's. Just because some king with ugly legs decided to wear something to cover them, pants were the norm for men.

JFK was the deciding factor for most men not wearing hats anymore. The most powerful man in the world made a fashion statement that is still in effect. Whether the dress or skirt is decidedly feminine or not, doesn't matter, it's that person's choice of attire that matters. If he feels comfortable in it, so be it.

Women have been wearing suits for decades, so denying her the right to wear a tux is purely biased judgement on where the fem to male styling exists. To say she has to wear a dress only is denying her right to self-expression. It's a formal affair and she wants to wear formal attire, no rules broken, other than gender bias. I wear a kilt, so I'm a bit biased, let's just say.

 

[oggbashan]

When dressed as my AV, I'm wearing black tights (pantyhose), a skirted top, a padded jacket and a fur-trimmed cloak. I should be wearing a cod-piece but it would be hidden by the skirt so I don't bother.

I don't get rude comments about wearing the skirt. I don't usually get any rude comments at all. Perhaps it's because my Yeomen of the Guard are too fierce (and they wear skirts too).

Or maybe it's the masked headsman carrying a sharp axe?

Og

PS. Locally, on non-uniform days at local schools, some boys have turned up in their sister's or girlfriend's clothing. The non-uniform days are usually to raise money for a school-sponsored charity, so anything goes.

All it takes for a boy to wear a skirt to school on a non-uniform day is a reasonable amount of balls. Of course, if the girls wear trousers it could be their normal wear.

PPS. About two years ago, a local schoolboy was sent home because he wasn't wearing his school uniform. The next day he turned up in a girl's school uniform with grey skirt, white blouse and black pantyhose, saying that it was the accepted school uniform. He would have been sent home again for taking the piss, but he was lent some "proper" uniform from the lost property box. His protest soon died because the girls at his school laughed at him.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Sick twisted freaks.

 

[lance gt]

Sick twisted freaks.

Awww, c'mon Jimmy, you loved the feel of that hula skirt you wore for Halloween way back then. Put it on again and enjoy yourself. Throw a Hawaiian party at your house as an excuse, but continue to wear it long after the party. Switch it up, have a toga party, or a Clan Day of your own. See Jimmy, you wear dresses all the time. I'd still like to see you do a Statue of Liberty imitation, that would be a great AV for you.

 

[TxRad]

Sick twisted freaks.

Thank you, that's a great compliment in some circles.

Loosen up there James before your pacemaker blows a gasket.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

I say YES, IT'S OKAY as long as the skirt is long enough that the family jewels don't hang below the hemline

 

[lisa123414]

I say YES, IT'S OKAY as long as the skirt is long enough that the family jewels don't hang below the hemline

oh jenny, such baloney.....

cannot imagine you would get behind this,really?

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

oh jenny, such baloney.....

cannot imagine you would get behind this,really?

Actually, I'm not in that state and not in high school. I could care less what the teeny idiots are wearing. Haha

 

[DeeZire]

... I did not attend Rincon High School myself but I grew up in Tucson...

I went to high school in CA, but ended up in Tucson. Been here 30 years. I wonder if I've seen you around town? Do you shop at the Frys on Alvernon and Grant?

A local musician put out a CD a few years ago called "Boy in a Dress". This musician is now a transgendered female, although in my mind he's still the guy I knew before the change. Talk about a boy in a dress...

I prefer women in dresses - sun dresses, to be specific. I wonder if that's the reason I never left this hell-hole?

 

[amicus]

My appearance on this thread will no doubt be seen as, 'trolling' or flaming, but so too should Katyusha's posting of the thread and the link, as it flies in the face of the vast majority of people with children in public schools.

Homosexuality is a minority issue and should be treated as such.

Do you ever consider the consequences of your approval of gender confusion?

Young people, children, adolescents, have a hard enough time with peer pressure and performance in a social setting as it is, let alone being confronted by cross gender displays and affectations.

I was going to type, 'I probably won't live to see it...', but on second thought, with the National controversy over Gay Marriage and the rabid insistence of the gay community, things may come to a head long before I suspected.

It would seem to me that concerned parenting would involve itself in supporting and confirming a child's natural sexuality, instead of casting doubt at that very young and influential age.

Ahhh, "Diamonds and Rust" by Joan Baez is playing on channel 6033, reminds me of a college girl I once knew....sighs....memories...

With the social indoctrination by the public education system reaching a fever pitch, the natural evolvement towards computer learning at home may well experience a burst of growth in view of such antics as described in the linked article.

Eliminating the 'warehousing' of young children and the associated indoctrination by educators who transmit a flexible or subjective/relative behavioral role model instruction will solve most of the problems except perhaps for the very poor who might be forced by circumstances to continue in inner city slum education.

Again, I ask, do you ever look ahead and foresee the consquences of your actions and approvals? Some, perhaps most, have children or grand children in the system; is it truly the 'freedom of expression' that you are proseletizing, or is it an agenda?

Or are you so myopic as to not really see beyond your selfish aspirations?

One wonders...

Amicus

 

[TxRad]

Amicus, I only have one question. When was the last time you went outside and looked at the way kids dress these day. Just so ya know, it's worse than the height Ashberry days and we all know how much you loved the hippies.

 

[driphoney]

It would seem to me that concerned parenting would involve itself in supporting and confirming a child's natural sexuality, instead of casting doubt at that very young and influential age.

Ahhh, "Diamonds and Rust" by Joan Baez is playing on channel 6033, reminds me of a college girl I once knew....sighs....memories...

Again, I ask, do you ever look ahead and foresee the consquences of your actions and approvals? Some, perhaps most, have children or grand children in the system; is it truly the 'freedom of expression' that you are proseletizing, or is it an agenda?

Or are you so myopic as to not really see beyond your selfish aspirations?

One wonders...

Amicus

I must admit, I haven't read the thread, so my remark might be inappropriate. However, with some parents, it might just be a situation of picking their battles. A silly outfit isn't a permanent thing, and might only serve to tease later in life, but huge amounts of tattooing and piercings are something a child might regret in 15 years. In a perfect world . . .

Just curious. Back when you were enjoying Joan Baez . . . what were you wearing?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Parents have a responsibility to set limits with kids when the kids have no self-discipline. What they want today wont be what they want tomorrow.

 

[KarennaC]

Not that this has anything to do with gender identification, but...

In 1988, my senior year of high school, my school had a dress code that prohibited students from wearing shorts. No shorts whatsoever, regardless of length.

We were in the middle of a stretch of what, for Maine, was major heat, 85 degrees or more every day. The girls got around the "no shorts" rule by wearing the shortest skirts we could get away with. The boys had no recourse, until our class president read the handbook very carefully and discovered the dress code said nothing about boys wearing skirts.

So the next day, he and at least 15 other guys showed up wearing miniskirts borrowed from sisters or girlfriends. When the administrators tried to consequence them, they pointed out that they were not in violation of the dress code.

All of them were told to change; a couple were suspended for "insubordination". Later that morning, an announcement was made: Shorts of reasonable "beyond-fingertip" length would be allowed. And boys should refrain from wearing skirts.

 

[driphoney]

I've figured out the problem.

See, back in the olden days, turn of the century and even into the 1920's little guys wore dresses every day. Just so much easier to change that wet diaper and not ruin so many clothes pre-plastic. A little boy would wear his dress and look just like his sisters until he was about, oh, 5 or so (I think), and it was a big deal to get your short-pants.

We have just deprived the little sweeties of their early dress-wearing days.

 

[lance gt]

Sure we should Jimmy, but every kid has a mind of their own and the desire for individuality and peer pressure will dictate what they do. I tell my son the clothes he wears look stupid on him. It doesn't matter that they don't fit right or feel comfortable to wear and restrict movement, he wants to look cool.

Grow out of it? Sure he will. Will he wear appropriate attire to different functions? I hope so. He'll wear a white shirt, jeans, a sports coat and black running shoes.

That let's me know he understands the concept of dressing, but look at the difference in styles we have to choose from. Imagine we're still in 16th century France and all the guys dress in vibrant colours and powdered wigs. Powder your face and stick fake moles on it.

That was the norm back then, what if styles never changed? Can you see yourself dressing like that everyday? No. Neither can I, but we would have, because we wouldn't want to look weird.

So, who makes the dress codes? Who says what is appropriate or not? People with distinct ideas of what a boy and a girl should look like. Put people with different values in culture in those seats and this goes away.

Clothing is a completely individual expression of one's self and being told they can't is an injustice and unconstitutional. Herding everyone to conform to a set standard is never going to happen. It never has, it never will.

Mao loved his people to look the same, even he wore the same outfit, albeit a nicer grade of material. One style, one colour, unisex and utile. I can't see myself wearing it, can you?

So if a boy wants to wear a dress or a girl wants to wear a tux, let them. You're only strengthening your claim to be free and democratic.

Dame Edna is laughing.

 

[Safe_Bet]

I've figured out the problem.

See, back in the olden days, turn of the century and even into the 1920's little guys wore dresses every day. Just so much easier to change that wet diaper and not ruin so many clothes pre-plastic. A little boy would wear his dress and look just like his sisters until he was about, oh, 5 or so (I think), and it was a big deal to get your short-pants.

We have just deprived the little sweeties of their early dress-wearing days.

My, my, my, Driphoney... aren't you just the homophobic thing! I've grown accustom to Ami and his ilk smearing shit like this, but your a new one. I'll have to remember that. (oh, I know... you were just kidding, right? )

Just so it's said (cuz I doubt you really give a shit), cross gender dress has been found by the courts to be a First Amendment right of free speech.

What's the matter... don't like the Constitution anymore, you pinko, socialist, commie you???

I personally see this as progress. Though still dangerous in many locales, boys and girls being able to express their true gender identity earlier is a positive thing. One to of that, their acceptance by their peers is what is going to finally overcome the homophobic policies and laws that the haters have clung to for decades.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

LANCE

Believing youre a girl is as delusional as believing your shit doesnt stink or youre the smartest nigger in the room. People believe all sorts of stuff that aint necessarily so.

It ain't necessarily so
It ain't necessarily so
The t'ings dat yo' li'ble
To read in de Bible,
It ain't necessarily so.

Li'l David was small, but oh my !
Li'l David was small, but oh my !
He fought Big Goliath
Who lay down an' dieth !
Li'l David was small, but oh my !

Wadoo, zim bam boddle-oo,
Hoodle ah da wa da,
Scatty wah !
Oh yeah !...

Oh Jonah, he lived in de whale,
Oh Jonah, he lived in de whale,
Fo' he made his home in
Dat fish's abdomen.
Oh Jonah, he lived in de whale.

Li'l Moses was found in a stream.
Li'l Moses was found in a stream.
He floated on water
Till Ol' Pharaoh's daughter,
She fished him, she said, from dat stream.

Wadoo ...

Well, it ain't necessarily so
Well, it ain't necessarily so
Dey tells all you chillun
De debble's a villun,
But it ain't necessarily so !

To get into Hebben
Don' snap for a sebben !
Live clean ! Don' have no fault !
Oh, I takes dat gospel
Whenever it's pos'ble,
But wid a grain of salt.

Methus'lah lived nine hundred years,
Methus'lah lived nine hundred years,
But who calls dat livin'
When no gal will give in
To no man what's nine hundred years ?

I'm preachin' dis sermon to show,
It ain't nece-ain't nece
Ain't nece-ain't nece
Ain't necessarily ... so !

 

[driphoney]

My, my, my, Driphoney... aren't you just the homophobic thing! I've grown accustom to Ami and his ilk smearing shit like this, but your a new one. I'll have to remember that. (oh, I know... you were just kidding, right? )

Just so it's said (cuz I doubt you really give a shit), cross gender dress has been found by the courts to be a First Amendment right of free speech.

What's the matter... don't like the Constitution anymore, you pinko, socialist, commie you???

I personally see this as progress. Though still dangerous in many locales, boys and girls being able to express their true gender identity earlier is a positive thing. One to of that, their acceptance by their peers is what is going to finally overcome the homophobic policies and laws that the haters have clung to for decades.

My, my, my .... aren't you just the bitchy thing! But I don't have to remember it, because I've seen you hammering newcomers and old alike for months now.

No, I was actually not being that deep, and maybe I was just doing a bad job of working your own point. I think it's silly to be too concerned about teen's clothing, and as Lance says, fashion comes and goes. Who can determine it, and why would we want to? I was just remembering my Grandma's old family photos and how she explained why her grandpa was in a dress. As a little girl in the modern era, I was confused and she just explained it. It was as simple as that.

As I readily admitted, I hadn't read the whole thread, so I wasn't completely informed as to the original topic, just responding to his comment, then I had the thought of little boys, not so long ago wearing dresses, and our great-great-grandparents never thought a thing about it. Gender issues weren't even on my radar.

Why does everyone have to make a mountain out of a molehill? Do you know that Amicus thinks I truly am a pinko communist?

Good morning to you, too.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I'm curious. IF YOURE MALE HOW IN HELL DO YOU KNOW WHAT ITS LIKE TO BE FEMALE?

The late psychiatrist, Milton H. Erickson, MD, said that transvestites (males who wear female clothes) are confused and mistake form for substance; female costume cant possibly fit or feel the same on the male body.

 

[lance gt]

I'm curious. IF YOURE MALE HOW IN HELL DO YOU KNOW WHAT ITS LIKE TO BE FEMALE?

The late psychiatrist, Milton H. Erickson, MD, said that transvestites (males who wear female clothes) are confused and mistake form for substance; female costume cant possibly fit or feel the same on the male body.

Put the dress on Jimmy, close the curtains, slip on the panties and run around the house. Doesn't that feel great? Sure it does.
Ever see a picture of Jesus in pants? Romans, Spartans, Greeks, didn't wear pants. Scots, Irish, Polynisian, African all still wear a skirting of some kind.

More men in the world have worn a skirting than pants so what's the problem? Don't like the floral pattern or the A-line styling? Feel real men should have their packages confined in tight underwear and pants?

I don't need or want to be a fashion maven, but clothing has symbolized who we are as people and dictates how we relate to one another based on the attire we wear. It wouldn't matter if that guy told you the honest truth to all your questions and could make your life near-perfect, he's wearing a dress/skirt and you'll never believe him.

This again seems to border on Homophobia and what our depiction of normalacy is. Sure it's hard to understand their need to express themselves that way, but I'm not dressed like that, and I bet you're not dressed like that, so what's the problem?

To each, their own, has always been a great way to allow me acceptance of something different. If it doesn't affect me directly, I have no problem with them doing what they want.

 

[Trudy_Antone]

After travelling to Japan where the majority of teens wear make-up and outrageous clothes (you see lines of boys in high school doing their faces in the mirror), this development is hardly surprising. And equating clothing to sexuality (JBJ) is ridiculous. When I wear pants I don't do it to express my lesbianism (of which I am not), nor do I wear skirts to express my heterosexuality. I dress to please myself, occassionally to please others, and yes, clothing is an expression of personality but not necessarily sexuality.
Has anyone considered that this may be a backlash against mass produced clothing, where sourcing anything for little girls that isn't pink or purple is virtually impossible, and boys always wear navy blue, ALWAYS. Kids are boxed in place from day one. Try buying a hula-hoop or a child's brush and pan set that isn't pink! I have a teenage son (13) with long emo hair who begged me to buy him a suit and wore it everywhere to much consternation from adults and his friends. From adults: Jesus, was that a midget? From peers: Are you going to a funeral? Mate, leave my lawyer alone. The day he wore the suit to school for mufti day the kids were pissing themselves laughing. I drove away fearful for him and at the end of the day was SO proud that he braved it out and laughed off all the negs. Basically, it doesn't matter what you wear, if it isn't the same as the pack, you'll hear about it, LOUDLY! Kids who carry it off show a resilience and courage that inspires me.
On to my own teenage years... Skirts to an inch above the knee - f*ck that - we rolled up the waists as soon as we left school grounds. Regulation black or navy panties - scr#w you. There wasn't much we could buck in terms of uniform so the loophole - hair. I came to school with violet locks (the parts that weren't shaved) and was promptly called to the headmistress. "While I think it's great that you're expressing your individuality.... conform, conform, blah blah blah." Could they expel me? No. The violet stayed (much to my mother's disgust). We also wore louvre sunglasses, drew spider webs on our faces and crocheted our skirts (circa 85).
Good on them. I see no harm in a girl wanting to wear a tuxedo, or a boy dressing in a skirt. Would a man in a skirt turn me on? Not if it was rose patterned, but a kilt with hot legs...mm. IMHO, unsupervised internet access to porn is FAR, FAR more harmful to boys than whacking on a dress.

 

[Katyusha]

I think TruantOne makes a good point. Kids will get made fun of if they don't fully conform in even the smallest way, and adults will see any child who isn't a conformist as a child with a Problem. But the thing is, a kid can dress like everyone else, try to act like everyone else, and still get harassed incessantly by their peers. Looking at my own schooldays...I did my best to dress the way the so-called "cool kids" dressed, wore the same styles the same ways, even tried to behave the same ways, and still I was made fun of. Teased mercilessly. Made to feel like there was something fundamentally wrong with me. Unable to make any friends because nobody wanted to endure the harassment they would start getting if they associated with me. I didn't know what it was or why I was never able to get other kids to accept me.

"Fitting in" isn't JUST about what kids wear and how they look. There are some kids who will never, ever fit in no matter what they do, how they look, how they behave. They'll go from being told by adults that they need to conform better to being told that they're trying too hard to fit in, and they'll never understand just what it is that's "wrong" with them. To me, THAT'S the best way to confuse a child about who and what they are compared to who and what society thinks they should be. Allowing them to express themselves early on, particularly when it comes to gender identity and sexual orientation, eliminates much of the confusion that so many adults say these kids go through if they're *not* forced to "fit in."

It wasn't until sometime in college that I finally found out what my particular Problem was. I was smart. I was far smarter than average, although I never felt like it, and still don't consider myself to be smart. My intelligence as a kid probably intimidated the other, more "normal" kids, and to make themselves feel bigger and better they chose everything they could to make fun of, to put me down, to make me feel like I was some kind of a freak. To this day, I have problems with fitting in at work and in social circles because I'm "too smart." Am I teased? No. Not anymore. People like me, they respect me. But they have trouble relating to me. I have a feeling I'll always have this issue.

Sadly, the adults in my life when I was young did nothing to help; I *was* one of those poor kids who was encouraged to display my intelligence, and yet told I needed to be more like everyone else so I'd be able to make friends, and then told I was trying too hard and needed to be myself. Which was it? Was I trying too hard or was I allowing myself to be too different?

Or was it that I *was* just different and people couldn't handle it?

To me, encouraging kids to be who and what they feel they are INSIDE is a good thing...whereas telling them they need to conform to some so-called "social ideal" on the outside, and hide who and what they are confuses and hurts them. Children can be very cruel to each other. These ideas pushed on them by adults makes that even worse.

 

[Katyusha]

I went to high school in CA, but ended up in Tucson. Been here 30 years. I wonder if I've seen you around town? Do you shop at the Frys on Alvernon and Grant?

I've lived in Chicago for the last seven years, but before moving here and while I was living there, I was always at the Frys on Alvernon and Grant. After I turned eighteen it was the closest store to my apartment.