Not what you thought they were? Relationship changes...

[HottieMama]

Hi all. As a bit of backround let me start out by saying that the HusDom and I have been together for 18 months now and I love him dearly, but something has been concerning me for a while and I feel it is time to get advice from some others.

When we met and played together for the first time he was extremely sadistic. He is the first person that ever made me safeword. As we became a couple, I gave up any other male play partners. (Still with women but I don't submit or bottom to women.) As our relationship has progressed he has become less and less sadistic. I am a heavy masochist if nothing else and needless to say this has left me feeling very unsatisfied and unhappy. It has gotten to the point where I need to "ask" to "play." He typically says yes, but it is never to the degree that I need physically and mentally it does NOTHING for me. Perhaps because I feel that my having to ask equals begging and/or telling him what to do which in turn puts me in an awful headspace.

We have talked about this...many times. It is the one real issue we have at this point. He knows it is an issue. He admits this every time we talk about it. He knows he needs to "step it up," but NOTHING changes. It might get better for a week...but then it goes back to the same shit. I am quite honestly at my wit's end. I don't know what to do or how to make him see that this is hurting me and making me feel like he doesn't want me. I am tired of his excuses as to why things are different now. I am fucking OVER hearing about how much he used to "play" with his ex-wife and how much pain she liked. I feel like screaming at him... "You have no idea what I can take, fucker." I am so sick and tired of him talking about playing with other women when I am not getting jack-shit from him. I feel like I deserve his "best," not some other girl. After all, I am the one he chose to spend the rest of his life with.

So, I have no idea where to go from here. I love him very much and we are very compatible in day to day life. Leaving him is not an option. I will be honest and say that there is a part of me that wants to start bottoming for other men again though. I crave pain badly at this point and I just don't know how to make him see that, understand it, and then act on it.

 

[BiBunny]

Warning: Gigantic post that took me, like, an hour to write ahead.

First of all: *Hugs HM* I'm sorry you're going through this.

Secondly, I've never had this specific problem with my Owners, as they're the only people I've played with on a regular basis who are sadistic enough for me. However, I have had a lot of trouble communicating things with them in ways that they can understand. Maybe I can help a little.

I've had similar experiences with talking to them about what I needed, them acknowledging my need and trying to accommodate, and then seeming to forget all about it a week later. Sometimes, they even acted surprised I brought it up again.

"But, but...we tried to do [insert thing here] for three days! Is that not enough?"

*Cue Bunny banging her head against the wall repeatedly and then the whole cycle starting over again*

Most of my frustrations have been because I don't live right next door to my Owners and sometimes feel forgotten. Until they finally got it through their thick heads how much it hurt me, I would sometimes go days without hearing a word from either of them. Then, they'd pop back up several days later as if nothing had happened and be confused as to why I was upset.

Two things made it better. First, I realized that they honestly were NOT doing this to me to upset me or because they didn't care about me. They were genuinely confuzzled as to why I felt that way. The clincher was one night when I was talking to Mistress about how I felt that I was only tolerated or pitied, rather than truly loved and wanted. She proceeded to do a lot of talking to me and confessed her deepest, darkest fears to me. I consoled her, but I couldn't figure out what this had to do with anything. She grew really upset with me because she thought that I would understand that her confessing these things to me would show me that she loved and wanted me. Literal-minded me really just wanted to be told, "Of course, we love and want you!"

Slaves are from Mars. Owners are from a whole 'nother galaxy altogether.

But I soon understood that the reason they kept relapsing back into their old ways was that they didn't realize what a big deal it was to me. I finally just had to sit them down and use very simple words to explain, "Hey, look, I grew up in a house where no one showed their emotions, where no one ever said, 'I love you,' where the silent treatment was used as punishment, where I could go weeks being almost completely ignored by my mother until she decided I'd suffered enough for whatever stupid transgression she was punishing me for, and even though intellectually I know y'all aren't doing those things to me, I still get all freaked out when I don't hear from y'all, and I think y'all are angry at me or don't care about me anymore."

It was like a lightbulb went off. Once they understood why I felt that way, they suddenly had a vested interest in making sure my mental health didn't get too whacked out, worrying about them. I thought I'd made it clear several times what the problem was, but apparently, I hadn't connected the dots well enough. (That's a problem of mine sometimes.) I promised to try to stop flipping out over little things because I'd been letting frustration build for so long without talking about the problem, and they began to take a more active role in keeping my state of mind on an even keel, which they believe to be one of their responsibilities as my Owners.

The second thing that really helped was the acknowledgment that, up until fairly recently, all three of us had been trying to do this Owner/pet or M/s thing with one foot outside the door. In case anyone out there is keeping score, it really doesn't work that way.

We'd all been trying to keep one another at arm's length to keep from being hurt, and we were only succeeding in pushing each other farther and farther away. I admitted to them that I'd tried to leave before, on several occasions, but had been unable to. Then, they told me it was ok because I didn't have their permission to leave, anyway.

Now, that should've angered me in the "How dare you tell me if I can leave or if I can't" sort of way, but I'm kinda fucked up. To me, it meant that they did, in fact, truly want me. I was told I had no authority to decide if I could leave and no permission to do so. They also told me if I left that they would just bring me back.

If they didn't love me, they wouldn't care if I left, right? They'd just say, "Yeah, don't let the doorknob hit you in the ass on the way out." Knowing that just really made me feel safer and more secure in my place with them.

Feeling safer and more secure helped me to feel more comfortable talking to them about things. I let them know that I take being their pet/slave/little girl/laundry bitch just as seriously as they take their own marriage vows. It's no less of a commitment to me just because it lacks the paper. I began to feel more comfortable about treating them in the way I wanted to be treated, like "thinking of you" text messages when we're apart or a big spontaneous hug and kiss and an "I love you" when we're together. And you know what? When I became proactive, they, too, became more comfortable, and now snuggles and "I love yous" are much more common.

Happy pet girl. Happy Owner people.

Now, the upshot of this whole novel is this (if you've made it this far without falling asleep). It's entirely possible that while YOU think you're making yourself perfectly clear, he may not be making the connection, for whatever reason. If you don't want to just accept the way things are, you can always try to change them. Plus, it's a fact that if humans have a plan, they begin to feel happier about their situations, even if nothing has changed yet.

By "plan," by the way, I don't mean manipulation. I can't give you a plan, obviously, because that's something very personal that you have to figure out on your own. But sometimes, it does help to talk to others in the way you might speak to someone you've never met before: very kindly and politely and providing him/her with background information he/she either doesn't know or might not have thought of before.

Like, why do you feel unwanted when you don't get hardcore sadomasochistic playtime? You don't have to answer me, but you might want to answer it for yourself. Try to figure out the reason behind those thoughts, and then see if you can't connect the dots for him. Once it makes sense to him why you feel a certain way, rather than him just feeling like you get upset for some inexplicable reason (which is how my Owners felt about me), then it'll probably make it easier for him to give you what you need.

Of course, there's always the possibility that even if he does understand it, he'll say, "Too bad, I'm in charge, and we're doing it my way." I ran that risk when I talked to Master and Mistress, but I lucked out that they didn't say that!

As far as other play partners, that's always a possibility, too. You can always do what I did. I decided that I would give my Owners six months to help me with these feelings, and if nothing changed in that time, I'd seek help somewhere else. I didn't share this timeline with them, of course. It's not about tossing out an ultimatum. It's just giving yourself a concrete plan. I talked with them regularly, not enough that they wanted to strangle me, but once a week or so, and they figured it out, thus negating the need for me to take any other action.

Maybe you could, say, wait until the first of the year to see if anything changes, while making sure that you keep communicating your thoughts and feelings. If explaining it one way doesn't work, then try it another way. Everybody learns differently. If, by that time, things are still the same, maybe you could tell him you would like to see other play partners if he's cool with it.

(Also, maybe think about changing your mind to bottoming to women. I used to be that way, too, and now I'm glad I changed my mind! )

And if you've already done all this, and it still didn't work, then I'm out of advice.

Best of luck to you and let us know how it goes, ok? If you need an ear, my PM box is always open, and I tend to be on Yahoo pretty often, too.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

Without wanting to sound like a ball-breaking feminist, it can really damage a guy's self confidence and libido if his partner has a higher sex drive than he does, which sounds like the case here. Obviously, I can't speculate as to why your husband's sex drive has plummeted but if you're always having to ask for play, something has definitely happened to his mojo. One of the most common reasons is depression. Although this may be the only issue you two have as a couple, a loss of sex drive is usually a symptom of something psychological. Is he unduly stressed at work or with some other issue in his life? If so, helping him resolve that issue could be enough to boost your playtime.

Can you recall when he scaled down your sessions and what was happening then? Was there any new medication introduced or something that maybe knocked his confidence?

If you really think he's happy and healthy psychologically, it might be worth sending him to the GP. A simple blood test can rule a lot of potential problems and it's a more pro-active approach than waiting for some serious medical problem to maybe surface.

Failing all that, it might be time to consider a kink-friendly therapist. There's obviously something going on with him and it sounds like you've already talked about things at length so it may be that you've reached a point where mediation of some kind is needed to draw him out on what's really going on.

 

[eastern sun]

BiBunny and Velvet have good advice. I'd also add that I've had similar experiences with my husband. Sex really does change after marriage for many couples, radically dropping off in frequency and intensity. It hasn't stayed that way. We've been able to pick up where we left off in our courtship and take it places we couldn't even imagine back then. Only to find it dropping off again as kids/health/work exert their demands or familiarity dampens the drive. And then pick it up again. That's one of the benefits of staying with one person. You get to keep building on the foundation that has been laid, even if work seems to have stalled for a while.

Part of my identification as "slave" comes from the fact that I have never been in a position to ask for what I want and expect to get it. He is very much aware of what I want and enjoy, but he doesn't always want to give it to me for lots of different reasons, sometimes just plain because he knows I want it. Just like I don't always want to give him what he wants.

That may not be a solution for you, but it helped me to accept that I wasn't the one in control. I backed off on my demands, though I still communicate my desires whenever I want to. I learned I could live without getting what I wanted, and frequently discovered that I liked things I thought I wouldn't like because that's what he was giving at the time.

Truthfully, it also made me a nicer person over the years, less demanding, less focussed on myself all the time.

 

[HottieMama]

Like, why do you feel unwanted when you don't get hardcore sadomasochistic playtime?

First of all, thank you for the lengthy post. I really do appreciate it. For me it is quite simple as to why I feel unwanted. Even when he is not playing with me, he is still consistently talking about the things he wants to do "when we get another girl." Well, shit... If I am getting very minimally from you AT BEST, WHY on Earth would I want to encourage or actively seek another girl for us to play with?!?! That's happened before. A girl we met online came to visit for the weekend. It was devistating to watch him be a brutal sadistic bastard with her...while I looked on. I won't put myself through that again at this point. I don't know many people who could deal with that and not feel unwanted...

As for his sex drive... His sex drive is normal IMO. We have garden-variety sex quite frequently. I separate BDSM play and "just sex." I have no complaints with the sex in and of itself, except that it would be more satisfying for me if sadomasochistic play occured with roughly the same frequency. He knows my wants/needs and claims he wants to make me happy. I know I am not in control but it really bothers me that he says he wants to make me happy but this behavior doesn't change.

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

It wouldn't be that some part of him is afraid to hurt you now, because he loves you and wants to protect you? And he doesn't realise that?

 

[HottieMama]

It wouldn't be that some part of him is afraid to hurt you now, because he loves you and wants to protect you? And he doesn't realise that?

I have brought that up to him several times and he always claims that isn't the case. I still wonder if it's not at least partly true. I have also tried to explain to him that in order to feel fully loved I need to be reduced to a bruised, crying, sometimes bleeding mess occasionally which he also claims to understand and want to do, but it doesn't happen.

 

[Daddy2mylilgirl]

It wouldn't be that some part of him is afraid to hurt you now, because he loves you and wants to protect you? And he doesn't realise that?

That was what I was going to suggest. I know it has happened to me.

When you are with someone you are not emotionally attached to then its just easier to be sadistic and not care.

When you love and care about someone then it gets harder. That instinct to protect what is yours comes in to play. I think that's why he wants another girl to play with. The other girl isn't his so he can be mean, sadistic, and cause all the pain he wants because he doesn't love and care about her.

 

[eastern sun]

I really do appreciate it. For me it is quite simple as to why I feel unwanted. Even when he is not playing with me, he is still consistently talking about the things he wants to do "when we get another girl." Well, shit... If I am getting very minimally from you AT BEST, WHY on Earth would I want to encourage or actively seek another girl for us to play with?!?! That's happened before. A girl we met online came to visit for the weekend. It was devistating to watch him be a brutal sadistic bastard with her...while I looked on. I won't put myself through that again at this point. I don't know many people who could deal with that and not feel unwanted...

This is really true. I hated the times when I thought other women were getting his best while I had to put up with his worst. Hated it.

Do you have the freedom to look for sex with other men? That helped me, and was right in line with what he wanted. I still wished that I was getting it from him, but I didn't feel unwanted.

 

[HottieMama]

Do you have the freedom to look for sex with other men? That helped me, and was right in line with what he wanted. I still wished that I was getting it from him, but I didn't feel unwanted.

I voluntarily gave up that freedom when we began our relationship. As a last resort, I will ask for it again...

 

[midwestyankee]

HM, I've a couple of thoughts for you, somewhat related to things that others have already said. Please understand that this is only speculation on my part but I'll try to explain my thoughts clearly enough that you can see if they or any part of them might fit.

Some people have a hard time flipping the switch that can take them from "this is my wife, the love of my life" to "this slut is going to take whatever kind of beating I choose to give her for my own amusement." Many men who have affairs engage in much more adventurous sex with their lovers than their wives simply because they just can't conceive of their wives in the same way. There may be some element of this happening and he may very well have no idea that it's happening. This has been the case with me so I know that it can be really hard to see in yourself.

It's also possible that the thrill of the chase is a bigger thrill for him than he realizes. If this were the case, he might have allowed himself to let loose all of his sadism as part of the seduction/chase of you. Now that he has you, and that chase thrill is no longer present, it may be harder for him to let loose all of the sadism. Now, you say that he likes to talk about how much he used to beat his ex. Could it be that he was never quite secure in that relationship so that the seduction/chase continued for years?

You gave up sexual relations with other men as part of your agreement with your husband. Could you negotiate an arrangement where you get SM play with other men who would be willing to beat you to a pulp, either with or without sex play with these partners? Would it be enough for you to confine yourself to the SM play with other men and still remain sexually faithful to your husband?

This sounds like it's weighing very heavily on you. I hope you find a way to make it better.

 

[graceanne]

It wouldn't be that some part of him is afraid to hurt you now, because he loves you and wants to protect you? And he doesn't realise that?

That's kind of my fault.

I have brought that up to him several times and he always claims that isn't the case. I still wonder if it's not at least partly true. I have also tried to explain to him that in order to feel fully loved I need to be reduced to a bruised, crying, sometimes bleeding mess occasionally which he also claims to understand and want to do, but it doesn't happen.

Maybe he doesn't realize that's what's going on.

 

[CutieMouse]

My first thought was a Madonna/Whore issue, as well... I'm off to work in a minute, but I was wondering if this is a pattern with him? Hot heavy sadistic bastard initially, but as his past relationships deepened and developed did the hard stuff suffer neglect?

 

[HottieMama]

You gave up sexual relations with other men as part of your agreement with your husband. Could you negotiate an arrangement where you get SM play with other men who would be willing to beat you to a pulp, either with or without sex play with these partners? Would it be enough for you to confine yourself to the SM play with other men and still remain sexually faithful to your husband?

I could negotiate that and it would be enough for me at this point. However, that is really, really, a last resort for me. Just the task of finding someone capable and willing to play the way I want is difficult, nevermind trusting someone enough to "let go" and get the release I need. I want that with my hubby. I know he is capable of it.

 

[HottieMama]

My first thought was a Madonna/Whore issue, as well... I'm off to work in a minute, but I was wondering if this is a pattern with him? Hot heavy sadistic bastard initially, but as his past relationships deepened and developed did the hard stuff suffer neglect?

Not according to him. Like I said he routinely talks about what he and his ex wife did throughout their relationship in terms of play. Now, I don't know if that is 100% accurate, because I have never spoken to his ex-wife and probably never will.

 

[Netzach]

I'm stepping up here as a poly Sadist with similar issues in relationships. I stopped beating M for a long enough duration that he's lost much interest in being beaten BY me as hard as we used to and I sometimes feel similar levels of frustration.

Sadism is sometimes attached to NRE. It's not something I do intentionally to fuck people over, it just happens. It's just a LOT easier to hurt someone who's there for that reason and gonna go away again when you are done. And it's satisfying, in a snickers bar kind of way if you're overlooking real food.

It's also inversely proportional to how many 1. issues I've got at home that have nothing to do with SM (being sick or having a sick partner is an issue)

2. It's easier with the person I don't have to see every day. I don't know why this is. It has nothing to do with not WANTING to work M over hard or not, but making the transition from kiss kiss hi how was your day to screaming in pain is just not easy. I've heard people say that this means I'm a guilty immature Sado, but I'm no longer buying that. Unlike what MW is talking about, I can SEE him as a sexy toy just FINE - I believe that some people are simply better at steeping in their private alternate reality and some people just need more work on transitions between work/external and internal/private. I'm really good at one OR the other and I need refocusing. Sometimes that shift just does not have room to happen in the external world of money/internets/smut and the internal world of "ohshitcrohn's"

Now, in my case, I'm married to someone who I think is the same. There's a LOT of transition work and a LOT of need for no stress before diving in again, so we have very long dry spells, but I take a long haul view like ES does. I'm comfortable with that. However, having another sexual partner who is willing to fan those particular flames and cater to that particular need to be mean to people - fuck yeah that helps, even if he's long-distance.

3. Hello, um, foreplay. I don't know if this is part of your problem, but it sure is/was part of mine. It's not just asking for a beating and letting me know you'd like one - when people ask for things it feels like "oh shit another obligation."

I've told H that he needs to seduce me into it, SOME of the way. Turn me on. I'm receptive, and I sure the fuck bring my 50% of the energy to the table, but when all I get is "please do this thing I need or I'm going to get upset" the pressure is on, the sexy stock is way down, and I feel like I'm a pro again. It's yucky. How can asking be more like foreplay? How can signals that you're in that space be more like an invite and less laden with "if it doesn't go where I need it to, you are in trouble."

However, I see one thing here that bugs me. Rubbing your face in the secondary rels. what the cock? WHEN I discuss my other partners with my other partners, I am very religious about doing it in the context of WHY I LIKE YOU. To H I will say "you know I love when T fucks me but he'd never do this crazy shit you do." When I talk to M it's "I love these guys but I could never live with them" or "God I love your shaved smooth girly legs" (something the others don't have quite the same) or something like that. When it's T it's 'I love you, you hairy hunk of vaguely hetero manly man" which the others are NOT. Superficial examples, and I could be accused of manipulation, but it's really really freaking important, IME.

It's great to be poly, but when there is a problem is not the time to be bringing up how other partners seem like an alluring solution to said problem. The time to tell me that M really wants a BF is NOT right after strap-on sex. It's just about any other time.

 

[Netzach]

This is really true. I hated the times when I thought other women were getting his best while I had to put up with his worst. Hated it.

Do you have the freedom to look for sex with other men? That helped me, and was right in line with what he wanted. I still wished that I was getting it from him, but I didn't feel unwanted.

My relationship with M has SOARED in sexual improvement the moment he started getting some good outside dicking, too. It takes him out of my hair for a bit. What I posted above about the usefulness of decompression.

I'm still not having SM time with him like we once enjoyed as much, but we are at least fucking a whole lot more again.

 

[HottieMama]

3. Hello, um, foreplay. I don't know if this is part of your problem, but it sure is/was part of mine. It's not just asking for a beating and letting me know you'd like one - when people ask for things it feels like "oh shit another obligation."

I understand that and I do make every fucking attempt known to man to seduce him into it. That usually results in some quite lovely borderline vanilla sex NOT me getting beat/cut/etc... I'm at a loss as to what more I can do before it is actually ME topping Him instead of the other way around.

As for the secondary relationships or the potiential thereof, we don't have independent relationships with other women. Any one we are with, we BOTH are with. I'm just not willing to discuss it at all right now. Yes, I am denying myself being with a woman...which I miss terribly...but I am also preventing myself from experiencing more emotional pain and feelings of inadequacy.

 

[eastern sun]

3. Hello, um, foreplay. I don't know if this is part of your problem, but it sure is/was part of mine. It's not just asking for a beating and letting me know you'd like one - when people ask for things it feels like "oh shit another obligation."

I've told H that he needs to seduce me into it, SOME of the way. Turn me on. I'm receptive, and I sure the fuck bring my 50% of the energy to the table, but when all I get is "please do this thing I need or I'm going to get upset" the pressure is on, the sexy stock is way down, and I feel like I'm a pro again. It's yucky. How can asking be more like foreplay? How can signals that you're in that space be more like an invite and less laden with "if it doesn't go where I need it to, you are in trouble."

I totally agree with this. I've been afraid sometimes that attempts at seduction will be viewed as "topping from the bottom," but have found instead that it is frequently welcome, and when it isn't, there will be clear signals to stop. I've also found that if I give him what he wants, he is more inclined to give me something I want. (Though, in our relationship, there are also periods where he explicitly denies me things he knows I want. I have learned to be patient through those periods. They don't last forever.)

 

[Netzach]

I understand that and I do make every fucking attempt known to man to seduce him into it. That usually results in some quite lovely borderline vanilla sex NOT me getting beat/cut/etc... I'm at a loss as to what more I can do before it is actually ME topping Him instead of the other way around.

I don't mean some primitive SM version of getting the lingerie and a hotel room, I mean *discussing* it in a fashion that is not boiling over with frustration, even though you may be.

Until I let go of the frustration, I was getting nowhere with trying to restart my broken sex life with a year off in it.

I find that if I would like to play a certain way, the best testing scenario is talking dirty about it while massaging the dick of the other person. "I'm imagining you doing this to me." kind of stuff.

 

[Netzach]

I totally agree with this. I've been afraid sometimes that attempts at seduction will be viewed as "topping from the bottom,"

This notion that everything short of lying back being available is "topping" has to be one of the most detrimental. It's fine if that works for you, but for most human beings ritual, repetition, courtship behavior, and mutual INTEREST is kind of important.

I also want to feel wanted. Not just sought out. I'm still a freaking GIRL even if I'm the one beating you. And if I wasn't I'd still be a man with attendant sexual ego and stuff I like. I've been on both sides of this divide as the person wanting more SM/sex/whatever and the person having it wanted of her.

Until frustration isn't actually the main topic, as much as the frustration is real and legit, the talks are going to stall.

 

[ataxia.girl]

i got out of trying to make my husband fulfill all my "needs" by taking a lover. i'm not sure how i got out of the mindset that husband and wife have to be EVERYTHING for each other but i did. i couldn't imagine going back to sexual monogamy. Its just too frustrating. We actually have sex more now that i'm not so angry and resentful all the time. i am less apt to feel hurt if i'm in the mood and he isn't or if he makes a snide comment about my sexual style which he sometimes does.

i still get frustrated sometimes. i still have some pretty simple and easy to fulfill fantasies i have a hard time getting out of my relationship with Daddy (but in a way that serves its own purpose) but my angst over it is no longer directed at my husband who has to share a home with me. He's not constantly having to carry that burden and neither do i.

 

[Evil_Geoff]

... I will be honest and say that there is a part of me that wants to start bottoming for other men again though. I crave pain badly at this point and I just don't know how to make him see that, understand it, and then act on it.

So be honest and tell HIM this, not us. HE needs to hear it. And you need to negotiate for it. He ponies up to meet your needs or he gets you someone who can.

So sayeth the Evil One...

{{{{{{{HUG}}}}}}} And good luck!

 

[Evil_Geoff]

I could negotiate that and it would be enough for me at this point. However, that is really, really, a last resort for me. Just the task of finding someone capable and willing to play the way I want is difficult, nevermind trusting someone enough to "let go" and get the release I need. I want that with my hubby. I know he is capable of it.

*Jumps up and down and waves his hand in the air*

Oo! Oo! Oo! Pick me! Pick ME!

 

[HottieMama]

Geoff...as much as you aren't a last resort in the least, the whole scenario of me being with another man is. Maybe I'm being too hopeful at this point, but I'm still hoping...