BDSM and Religion

[DeepGreenEyes]

I've always had an interest in both BDSM and religious sexual fantasies, and I know they're related; the sense of ritual, taboo, control, sin, punishment and atonement are so similar. In many religions, God is really the ultimate Dom; sometimes when I'm reading the liturgy in church, I feel as if it were written by a committee of subs.

Thoughts? Are you aroused by religious scenarios? If so, what kind? And what links do you see with your D/s preferences and fantasies?
And, of course, religious kink stories/experiences are welcome as well.

 

[eyreSN]

ha I have to admit that the Nun and Preist porn is pretty hot

 

[YourCaptor]

Ugh, religion.

There was a religious girl once. Every time I tried to get her to place me above her god she said I sound exactly like the devil tempting her.

 

[StrayKat]

Ugh, religion.

There was a religious girl once. Every time I tried to get her to place me above her god she said I sound exactly like the devil tempting her.

Hahaha. Did she resist the temptation?

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

Ugh, religion.

There was a religious girl once. Every time I tried to get her to place me above her god she said I sound exactly like the devil tempting her.

Hahaha. Did she resist the temptation?

Hmmm...Maybe she had snake issues.

 

[radepor]

God, I wish I could blame religion

I firmly believe religion is simultaneously the expression of the best of humankind and the worst.

I'd love to say I was abused by a priest and forever corrupted, but I'm not Catholic and I wasn't; tho I may be forever corrupted.

I seem to be interested more in the "M" of BDSM and you'd think somewhere or other the/a church would be involved but I can't for the life of me find a church to blame. Darn it.

I've always had an interest in both BDSM and religious sexual fantasies, and I know they're related; the sense of ritual, taboo, control, sin, punishment and atonement are so similar. In many religions, God is really the ultimate Dom; sometimes when I'm reading the liturgy in church, I feel as if it were written by a committee of subs.

Thoughts? Are you aroused by religious scenarios? If so, what kind? And what links do you see with your D/s preferences and fantasies?
And, of course, religious kink stories/experiences are welcome as well.

 

[Scotsman69]

I'm a convinced atheist.

Maybe because I was brought up in the presbyterian Church of Scotland.

 

[morninggirl5]

I've always had an interest in both BDSM and religious sexual fantasies, and I know they're related; the sense of ritual, taboo, control, sin, punishment and atonement are so similar. In many religions, God is really the ultimate Dom; sometimes when I'm reading the liturgy in church, I feel as if it were written by a committee of subs.

Thoughts? Are you aroused by religious scenarios? If so, what kind? And what links do you see with your D/s preferences and fantasies?
And, of course, religious kink stories/experiences are welcome as well.

Interesting question and one I hadn't given a lot of thought to until I attended a Muslim wedding last weekend. It was an experience that definitely cemented for me that no way no how will I ever be interested in any type of 24-7 arrangement. I was very respectful of their traditions, but inside I was seething.

 

[missy_me]

.....

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

Interesting question and one I hadn't given a lot of thought to until I attended a Muslim wedding last weekend. It was an experience that definitely cemented for me that no way no how will I ever be interested in any type of 24-7 arrangement. I was very respectful of their traditions, but inside I was seething.

I can understand your need for a seething biscuit. I admit that it's difficult for me to get my brain around traditions that different, but this is unwilling bondage to me. Or at least bondage in which you've been raised from infancy to think is the only real choice.

In Western cultures, where there is plenty of room for individual choice, people still freely choose D/s relationships. I find that much more interesting. Why? What are our cultural influences? And what role does religion play?

Major offtopic, but for the longest time BDSM has seemed very religious-like to me. Rules, rituals, texts that people often refer to, even people who are looked up to for help and wisdom. Not to forget the whole "true" submissive/dominant discussion and some clashes in defining what's kosher. No matter how many times we seem to say that BDSM is pretty much what you make of it, there are rules and there seem to be even fanatic followers of the said rules. I've noticed it happen especially in smaller communities, not maybe so much in the BDSM scene as a whole. Just a thought.

Do continue with the actual topic.

Absolutely dead-on topic, I'd say. I wrote something on the BDSM personals area about that, here: http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=672599

It does have all the hallmarks of a religion at times: who's in, who's out, who's pure, whose rituals are true.

I bet the Spanish Inquisitors were into BDSM.

 

[neci]

I can understand your need for a seething biscuit. I admit that it's difficult for me to get my brain around traditions that different, but this is unwilling bondage to me. Or at least bondage in which you've been raised from infancy to think is the only real choice.

In Western cultures, where there is plenty of room for individual choice, people still freely choose D/s relationships. I find that much more interesting. Why? What are our cultural influences? And what role does religion play?



Absolutely dead-on topic, I'd say. I wrote something on the BDSM personals area about that, here: http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=672599

It does have all the hallmarks of a religion at times: who's in, who's out, who's pure, whose rituals are true.

I bet the Spanish Inquisitors were into BDSM.

i have a very good friend who in most ways is the epitome of the modern woman. she is a social activist, good job, very caring, intellectual, and she is a devout Muslim. when i heard she was going to be married to a man she had only met three times, i was flabbergasted. i couldn't understand. they have been married now for six years, and they have a very spiritual relationship. i look at them, and realize that while i don't "get" it, they will most likely be together forever. it's crazy to me, but for them it really works. she explained it to me one day, because i just didn't get it, and while i couldn't reword it correctly, i understood.

i have to agree with the Spanish Inquisitors - Glory, Gold and God!
that would have been pretty damn kinky

 

[WriterDom]

Interesting question and one I hadn't given a lot of thought to until I attended a Muslim wedding last weekend. It was an experience that definitely cemented for me that no way no how will I ever be interested in any type of 24-7 arrangement. I was very respectful of their traditions, but inside I was seething.

"I, Morninggirl5, offer you in myself in marriage in accordance with the instructions of the Holy Quar'an and the Holy Prophet, peace and blessing be upon Him. I pledge, in honesty and with sincerity, to be for you an obedient and faithful wife."
Groom: "I pledge, in honesty and sincerity, to be for you a faithful and helpful husband."

Works for me.

 

[MisterSir]

Of course it does, you appear to have no understanding of Muslim culture beyond the name of their holy book.

I'm unashamedly atheist and so it's not surprising I don't see anything in this idea; I have no interest in religious scenarios and the "Dom as God" parallel plain doesn't make sense to me because God, your Abrahamic God, retains all his cosmic powers regardless of whether us, the subs in this equation, believe in him and follow him or not. I don't, but if he exists and was inclined that way, he could still fry my ass with a lightning bolt; in contrast, a Dom who tries to exert his Domly authority over a sub who doesn't follow him is...many things, foremost of which would be a criminal. See my point?

 

[SimonBrooke]

Of course it does, you appear to have no understanding of Muslim culture beyond the name of their holy book.

One fifth of all the people in the world are Muslims. There are a bunch of primitive rabid zealots in the hills between Arghanistan and Pakistan, and you assume because they are Muslims that all Muslims are like them. Wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong and wrong. Muslims across the world are about as varied as Christians across the world. Some are extremely liberal; others are extremely illiberal. But there's nothing in 'Muslim culture' about arranged marriage, or wives being subservient to their husbands. There is in Afghani and in Saudi Arabian cultures, granted. But Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia together make up only five percent of the Muslim world.

 

[StrayKat]

I dont get too well with religious people. They tend to express their religious views too much in everyday conversations for my taste.
If I go shopping with a friend and she buys a dress because God likes her dressed that way (exaggerating but I hope you get my point), that is the end of any conversation for me. If I am hurt and someone tries to comfort me with "Gods will" or something alike I dont hurt less, I just get angry. Basically there is nothing in common between me and religious people and I dont mingle with those I have nothing in common with.
I just do not believe in almighty entity sitting on the cloud and ordering us how to live. I believe in things I can see and touch.

My Mother turned religious last couple of years and I am fine with that as long as she doesnt try to convince me in anything (what she does all the time, like most religious people I know). I dont see any changes in her since she turned religious though, she is just the same selfish bitch as she always was.
I did read Bible, I was born in Rimocatholic family that took religion for granted and expected everyone to get educated about it. I decided their views dont suit me when I was about 15.
The "turn the other cheek" is something I despise, the "eye for an eye" I might relate to.

I dont think my religion or the lack of it affect my sexual desires. I have my own rules about what is bad thing and what is good thing, I have my morals and principles. Some of them agree with 10 commandments, some dont.

I could understand something being attractive because its a "sin" and "God forbids it", kind of being a mischievous child and stealing the cookies while Mom doesnt look. I does nothing for me though, I never liked authority of any kind, I prefer to feel free and do mean things just because I enjoy them.

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

i have a very good friend who in most ways is the epitome of the modern woman. she is a social activist, good job, very caring, intellectual, and she is a devout Muslim. when i heard she was going to be married to a man she had only met three times, i was flabbergasted. i couldn't understand. they have been married now for six years, and they have a very spiritual relationship. i look at them, and realize that while i don't "get" it, they will most likely be together forever. it's crazy to me, but for them it really works. she explained it to me one day, because i just didn't get it, and while i couldn't reword it correctly, i understood.

I didn't want to start a thread about Islam and arranged marriage, but hey, there you go. My first thought is that your friend got lucky. My second thought is that there's a lot I don't understand.

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

I dont get too well with religious people. They tend to express their religious views too much in everyday conversations for my taste.
If I go shopping with a friend and she buys a dress because God likes her dressed that way (exaggerating but I hope you get my point), that is the end of any conversation for me. If I am hurt and someone tries to comfort me with "Gods will" or something alike I dont hurt less, I just get angry. Basically there is nothing in common between me and religious people and I dont mingle with those I have nothing in common with.
I just do not believe in almighty entity sitting on the cloud and ordering us how to live. I believe in things I can see and touch.

My Mother turned religious last couple of years and I am fine with that as long as she doesnt try to convince me in anything (what she does all the time, like most religious people I know). I dont see any changes in her since she turned religious though, she is just the same selfish bitch as she always was.
I did read Bible, I was born in Rimocatholic family that took religion for granted and expected everyone to get educated about it. I decided their views dont suit me when I was about 15.
The "turn the other cheek" is something I despise, the "eye for an eye" I might relate to.

I dont think my religion or the lack of it affect my sexual desires. I have my own rules about what is bad thing and what is good thing, I have my morals and principles. Some of them agree with 10 commandments, some dont.

I could understand something being attractive because its a "sin" and "God forbids it", kind of being a mischievous child and stealing the cookies while Mom doesnt look. I does nothing for me though, I never liked authority of any kind, I prefer to feel free and do mean things just because I enjoy them.

I'm with you, theologically, StrayKat. I'm addicted to the rituals and the form and the dark chapels and the language and the stated theology. But I go my own way with my beliefs. And, truthfully, aggressively religious people creep me out. What's that thing that Jim Gaffigan says? "The scariest phrase in the English language: "I'd like to talk to you about Jesus."" Um, I'd rather you not.

But something about the rituals and form and language and theology connect to my interest in BDSM. I'm not sure - maybe it's purely aesthetic.

 

[Homburg]

Nietzsche had some very interesting things to say about the intersect of Power and Religion in "Will to Power". The book may be passe' to bring up these days, I dunno, but it was still quite interesting.

The short version was that the ubermensch rules over his fellows because he is strong, fast, powerful of will, etc, and can simply take and command power and rulership. The Priest takes power from the ubermensch by describing those qualities of the ubermensch as bad, and rebranding them as sins. Strength is not a virtue, weakness is. Victory is out, and submission to higher power is in. Taking is out, and giving is in. The Priest is the ultimate example of topping from the bottom, essentially.

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

I have no interest in religious scenarios and the "Dom as God" parallel plain doesn't make sense to me because God, your Abrahamic God, retains all his cosmic powers regardless of whether us, the subs in this equation, believe in him and follow him or not. I don't, but if he exists and was inclined that way, he could still fry my ass with a lightning bolt; in contrast, a Dom who tries to exert his Domly authority over a sub who doesn't follow him is...many things, foremost of which would be a criminal. See my point?

This is a good point. Can I can get lightning bolts on ebay?

 

[StrayKat]

Nietzsche had some very interesting things to say about the intersect of Power and Religion in "Will to Power". The book may be passe' to bring up these days, I dunno, but it was still quite interesting.

The short version was that the ubermensch rules over his fellows because he is strong, fast, powerful of will, etc, and can simply take and command power and rulership. The Priest takes power from the ubermensch by describing those qualities of the ubermensch as bad, and rebranding them as sins. Strength is not a virtue, weakness is. Victory is out, and submission to higher power is in. Taking is out, and giving is in. The Priest is the ultimate example of topping from the bottom, essentially.

Aside the fact that I cant stand the term ubermensch, since most of those that claim to be such are inferior in so many ways its not even funny. I wonder how strong, intelligent and powerful of will can let themselves be persuaded that everything they value is wrong? They are not so strong and powerful in that case, in my opinion.

Like I said, I spent my youth in religious and close knit family. My Grandma was dominating everything, very much supported by my Grandpa. It was unbelievable thing not to go to church Sunday morning, declaring oneself as atheist would be the same thing as pissing in her "Sunday family" soup.
Yet I stood up to her, to my aunts, to my cousins at the age of 15. I was almost expelled from the family, I went to school to another town since I "broke my Grandfathers heart" and "family was ashamed of me" (I should really write my Family with capital, its how they are). Only my Mother stood up for me at the time because she was loosing her own faith, she lost it and found it several times since.

I dont see how could any priest convince me in believing something I find utterly wrong. And I dont even think I am some sort of ubermensch but pretty average person.

 

[Homburg]

Aside the fact that I cant stand the term ubermensch, since most of those that claim to be such are inferior in so many ways its not even funny. I wonder how strong, intelligent and powerful of will can let themselves be persuaded that everything they value is wrong? They are not so strong and powerful in that case, in my opinion.

*snip*

I dont see how could any priest convince me in believing something I find utterly wrong. And I dont even think I am some sort of ubermensch but pretty average person.

You'd be better off reading the book. What I offered above was called the "short version" on purpose. Still, the Priest does not take the power by convincing the ubermensch that his virtues are wrong. He does so by convincing the populace at large that the ubermensch's values are wrong. In doing so, he turns the common man away from the ubermensch. No man or woman, regardless of how strong or strong of will they are, can maintain rule when the majority of people have been turned against them.

And given that Nietzsche wrote this book well before the majority of weedy gits started misusing that term to describe themselves, I wouldn't be looking too much askance at its' usage here.

Again, read the book if you want to know more. The section I am referring to a pretty scathing take on the Priest. He is not the hero in this tale.

 

[StrayKat]

You'd be better off reading the book. What I offered above was called the "short version" on purpose. Still, the Priest does not take the power by convincing the ubermensch that his virtues are wrong. He does so by convincing the populace at large that the ubermensch's values are wrong. In doing so, he turns the common man away from the ubermensch. No man or woman, regardless of how strong or strong of will they are, can maintain rule when the majority of people have been turned against them.

And given that Nietzsche wrote this book well before the majority of weedy gits started misusing that term to describe themselves, I wouldn't be looking too much askance at its' usage here.

Again, read the book if you want to know more. The section I am referring to a pretty scathing take on the Priest. He is not the hero in this tale.

I will, you got me interested now. Nietzsche is generally not my favorite but I could use some brain fitness and practice patience these days.

I still assume that genuine ubermensch might have the strength to stand up against entire community if he is convinced what he believes is right. Of course its not common and its not easy and 99.99% of people would just go along no matter what they feel deep inside.
That is what saddens me most, I know there is a good part of community that doesnt care about the priest, that has enough common sense to live and let live, that maybe even secretly agrees with ubermensch..... and yet act like conformist sheep nevertheless. Its all about belonging to the flock.

 

[Homburg]

I will, you got me interested now. Nietzsche is generally not my favorite but I could use some brain fitness and practice patience these days.

It's worthy, and a much more palatable read than "Thus Spake Zarathrusta". Though Zarathrusta was really good stuff in many ways.

I still assume that genuine ubermensch might have the strength to stand up against entire community if he is convinced what he believes is right. Of course its not common and its not easy and 99.99% of people would just go along no matter what they feel deep inside.
That is what saddens me most, I know there is a good part of community that doesnt care about the priest, that has enough common sense to live and let live, that maybe even secretly agrees with ubermensch..... and yet act like conformist sheep nevertheless. Its all about belonging to the flock.

The critique of the flock is evident in his work as well. It's interesting stuff. Been a dog's age since I read it. I should probably add it to my absurdly full reading list for a reread.

 

[CutieMouse]

I bet the Spanish Inquisitors were into BDSM.

I started to write a reply last night, but felt it wouldn't add much to the conversation; however with the above bit in play -

Earliest pagan religious (Dionysian cults, etc) often used flagellation in their ceremonies; the Early Church followed suit. There are sects within The church who's earliest history involved physical suffering to grow closer to the grace of God - often practiced by Ecstatics and Mystics... some theorize that the individuals would flog, cut, scourge, etc themselves to the point of reaching an endorphin high (BDSM circles use the term "sub space"), during which they felt they could better commune with God.Study Church history and you'll find it riddled with masochists choosing to suffer for their relationship with Christ/God [by the OP's theory Dominant/Master]. I wish I could remember which specific Religious Orders were most commonly associated with the Mystics/Ecstatics, but it's long ago fallen out of my head...

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

I started to write a reply last night, but felt it wouldn't add much to the conversation; however with the above bit in play -

Earliest pagan religious (Dionysian cults, etc) often used flagellation in their ceremonies; the Early Church followed suit. There are sects within The church who's earliest history involved physical suffering to grow closer to the grace of God - often practiced by Ecstatics and Mystics... some theorize that the individuals would flog, cut, scourge, etc themselves to the point of reaching an endorphin high (BDSM circles use the term "sub space"), during which they felt they could better commune with God.Study Church history and you'll find it riddled with masochists choosing to suffer for their relationship with Christ/God [by the OP's theory Dominant/Master]. I wish I could remember which specific Religious Orders were most commonly associated with the Mystics/Ecstatics, but it's long ago fallen out of my head...

This is great info, CutieMouse. There's a lot here I want to investigate. Enjoyed your blog, too. Hmmmm...ever think of starting a flog to go with it?