How Much Should Taxes Take From You?

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

At what amount do you toss in the towel and refuse to give another dime to the government?

 

[Liar]

Enough to make nessecary shit work.

How much is that? I haven't got a clue.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I read somewhere that 50% is about as much as the government can take before people get serious about not paying, and hiding income. Walter Williams has some enlightening observations about the effects of government borrowing and deficit spending.

 

[Liar]

Probably true. With business tax (self employed), income tax and VAT/sales tax, about half of my income goes to taxes.

It's annoying enuff as it is. Anymore and I'd start to cheat.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

The justification for Taxation in America (Acct 415) is this:

The U.S. Government is in partnership with you. Taxes are the government's share of that business partnership."

If that's true then where the fuck are they when it comes to paying the bills?

 

[DesertPirate]

Actually if you lump all the taxes you pay together it's already over 60%.

Property, income sales, fuel x 3 or more(electricity, gasoline, natural gas, + tax on fuel at electric plant, booze, tobacco (if used)...

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Okay! At what tax rate does the government lose its legitimacy and fail because it cant collect the taxes it needs? It cant absorb every penny without risking revolt, so where is the line; at what rate are you willing to clobber the IRS agent?

 

[DesertPirate]

Okay! At what tax rate does the government lose its legitimacy and fail because it cant collect the taxes it needs? It cant absorb every penny without risking revolt, so where is the line; at what rate are you willing to clobber the IRS agent?

Go up 10% from where we are and the people will give Govt. the finger.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

DP

I was just reading that the figure is much lower, closer to where we are now. The article says Americans barter and pay under the table. The other day I paid a guy $50to fix a cracked pipe for me...under the table. He was in and out in 20 minutes.

Local merchants are screaming about the internet sales, but I use the internet as often as possible to dodge sales taxes and fees.

 

[R. Richard]

The justification for Taxation in America (Acct 415) is this:

The U.S. Government is in partnership with you. Taxes are the government's share of that business partnership."

If that's true then where the fuck are they when it comes to paying the bills?

And, where are they when it comes time to furnish the services that we're supposedly paying for? I value the Fire Department, although I've never had a fire. The scumbags are a total waste of money. The roads/streets people don't do much of anything until a pothole gets big enough to swallow a Humvee. Ask the SEC about Bernie Madoff. Ask the IRS about Rangel, the Demo Congressman from NYC [he 'forgot' about some thing over a million in taxes.] Oh yes, then there's the Air Safety people who prevented the terrorists from crashing airplanes into the World Trade Center.

 

[TE999]

Througout history, confiscatory and onerous taxation has toppled empires. Taxes used to be collected in the form of actual goods; bushels of wheat, oxen, baskets of fruits and nuts, even slaves.

When people can no longer adequately feed themselves and their loved ones, they rebel and the government is overthrown. Unjust taxation fueled the American Revolution and a lack of bread lit the fuse for the French Revolution.

"The difference between a Tax Collector and a Taxidermist is the Taxidermist leaves the hide." Mark Twain.

 

[DeeZire]

Doesn't the USA have the lowest tax rate of any industrialized nation?

The only revolt I see coming will be against the top 1% who hold 90% of the wealth in this country. It's going to take more than a gated community to keep them safe.

 

[penandpaper]

Hell, several people I know cheat now. Not large, but take an extra deduction or two. I can't imagine anything above what they get now. There'd be a little revolution - of crime that is.

 

[trysail]

U.S. GDP is roughly $14 trillion.

The U.S. government took in roughly $2.5 trillion and spent $3.0 trillion in FY 2008. Individual income taxes and F.I.C.A. accounted for the vast majority of federal receipts ( 81% ).

The unfunded Social Security liability is roughly $11 trillion and the unfunded Medicare liability is about $66 trillion, while Treasury debt is now around $10 trillion.

A little mathematics never hurt anyone.

 

[ishtat]

Doesn't the USA have the lowest tax rate of any industrialized nation?

The only revolt I see coming will be against the top 1% who hold 90% of the wealth in this country. It's going to take more than a gated community to keep them safe.

Several east Asian nations have very low tax rates. Hong Kong is possibly the best with a flat income tax rate of 15.5% and a company tax rate of 16%.

Nobody bothers to avoid tax at those levels.

It surprises me that the US federal government has not introduced some sort of VAT because wherever it has been started revenues have exceeded budget by a wide margin.

It is also a neat way of taxing poorer people to the benefit of the wealthy. The poor accept it because they are given a sop in the form of an income tax reduction but in the medium term VAT is far more damaging to thei pockets while bracket creep destroys the value of an income tax reduction.

That 1% 90% was plucked out of the air was it not??

Australian taxes overall are similar to the US . We have no inheritance taxes which is good . In UK they are penal, about 40% of all assets above about 500,000 dollars.

For my sins I pay taxes in the US UK and Australia

Our Black economy in OZ is very large and extends to all trades. This morning I paid $600 in cash for some notarised documents. The lawyer gave a 20% discount on the schedule fee for cash and no receipt. Clearly he wasn't paying tax on it.

 

[DeeZire]

..That 1% 90% was plucked out of the air was it not??

It was plucked off the internet, however it could be more like 10% holding 80% of the wealth. It's still unacceptable, at least from the standpoint of keeping a so-called democratic society functioning in a democratic manner.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

In most places the slumlords and loansharks and bootleggers get elected to local office. They cant care less about their citizens because citizens are 'marks' they exploit. When times are tough these bandits hike taxes to keep the revenue stream flowing so their enforcers have jobs and their patrons get contracts.

 

[oggbashan]

One of the anomalies of taxation is the impact of differential rates. Getting them wrong can alienate voters, as Gordon Brown did with the abolition of the ten pence starting rate for low earners. It actually cost many lower paid workers MORE in tax when he abolished the starting rate because the higher rate took more of the total income.

I experienced an anomaly in the 1960s. In my office we could volunteer for overtime to do boring but essential tasks such as weeding ancient files, updating a (manual) database, etc. If I worked for one extra hour an evening I lost money. The extra amount I was paid was absorbed by the Underground fare to the mainline train station. If I finished at the normal time I could walk to the train. If I finished an hour (or more) later I had to take the Underground and pay extra. The earnings for the hour's overtime after tax deduction was three pence less than the Underground fare.

If I worked two hours or more I had more money in my pocket but I had to be careful. If I worked more than 300 extra hours in a year my total income would trigger a higher tax band and I would be worse off than if I had worked 250 hours.

Taxation is a complicated science. Politicians and economists can get it wrong.

Og

 

[DeeZire]

In most places the slumlords and loansharks and bootleggers get elected to local office. They cant care less about their citizens because citizens are 'marks' they exploit. When times are tough these bandits hike taxes to keep the revenue stream flowing so their enforcers have jobs and their patrons get contracts.

Another POV is an altruistic one. They raise taxes to pay for services that are needed in order to make society more equitable to all. The fact that you see it your way says more about you than about the system you're looking at.

 

[trysail]

Another POV is an altruistic one. They raise taxes to pay for services that are needed in order to make society more equitable to all. The fact that you see it your way says more about you than about the system you're looking at.

What is this "equitable" stuff? Life isn't "fair" ( whatever the hell that word means ). Who told you life was fair? They were either lying or they didn't know what the hell they were talking about.

If someone spends their adolescence and early adulthood goofing off or ingesting drugs or doing unproductive things, why should they be rescued from the consequences of their folly? Why should someone who sacrificed and worked like a dog be forced to support the lazy and imprudent? It makes no sense that those who practice self-denial, self-discipline, who showed initiative, enterprise and drive should be penalized.

Those who dawdle and engage in hedonism deserve the rewards thereof.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

TRYSAIL

Plus people make incredibly bad decisions.

My old man coulda bought all the beachfront lots he wanted at $1000 each, but he believed that only Yankees and goddamned fools would waste $1000 on lots that now sell for about 1 MILLION each. My grandfather coulda bought the lots for $50 each, and turned them down. Too much money!

My father-in-law noved down from New York and bought all they'd sell him. And he made a ton of money.

 

[jeninflorida]

At what amount do you toss in the towel and refuse to give another dime to the government?

Government workers are useless! Then again so are union workers.

 

[Liar]

Government workers are useless! Then again so are union workers.

Then again so are blanket statement blurts like that one.

 

[Safe_Bet]

Government workers are useless! Then again so are union workers.

Yeah! Get rid of all of them! Lets can every damn police officer, fireman, paramedic, teacher, food inspector, soldier and judge. That'll teach them. Most of those bastards are union members, too!

 

[jeninflorida]

Then again so are blanket statement blurts like that one.

yep! just having some fun