Iran - it makes you think

[scheherazade_79]

I found a link to this on another forum, and thought I'd share.

It's totally not how I'd imagined Iran, and somehow it makes the Axis of Evil label that much harder to swallow.

http://www.lucasgray.com/video/peacetrain.html

 

[sr71plt]

You're not helping the Axis of Evil arguments very much. Thanks.

 

[fifty5]

Islam really, really is not a synonym for evil. (Ask anyone who knows their science and maths - or politics - how much understanding in all those areas came out of Arabia - and India for that matter.)

Granted there are evil people who claim to be Muslims, but then there are evil people who claim to be Christian (and for all I know, that goes for other religions too).

However, in my experience, irrespective of colour or creed, most people are just folk very much like me.

I spent 4 months working in Pakistan. Soon after I got there, one of my Pakistani colleagues told me that just like working in a photographic darkroom (in the days of chemical photography) it very soon becomes natural to expect skin to be dark in the image, rather than light - and that this factor is entirely immaterial.

Mostly, I've found that to be entirely true.

 

[Teloz]

Have you ever noticed how it's the politicians that start the wars, but the soldiers that fight and die?

The politicians stay behind telling the soldiers what a wonderful job they're doing, then cut the budget.

 

[sr71plt]

Have you ever noticed how it's the politicians that start the wars, but the soldiers that fight and die?

The politicians stay behind telling the soldiers what a wonderful job they're doing, then cut the budget.

No, I haven't noticed that. It isn't that simple. Hatred--quite often sectarian or ethnic hatred and usually deepseated in history--is usually what starts wars--and it bubbles up from within the society, and mostly politicians are responding to the people who put them into office--they usually are representative of what their society wants when they go to war. It can also be ginned up from within business interests.

(You didn't notice who was pushing for going to war after 9/11? You didn't see the public response?)

To blame it on just one type of people is scapegoating--but, then, that's what a lot of people are looking for in their elected officials--scapegoats for their own failings and/or so that they don't have to take more responsibility on themselves.

(And as a graduate of the Army War College, I can tell you there are just as many individual soldiers happy to go to war as in any other segment of society.)

Sorry for the touch of "let's get real."

 

[Boxlicker101]

Islam really, really is not a synonym for evil. (Ask anyone who knows their science and maths - or politics - how much understanding in all those areas came out of Arabia - and India for that matter.)

Granted there are evil people who claim to be Muslims, but then there are evil people who claim to be Christian (and for all I know, that goes for other religions too).

However, in my experience, irrespective of colour or creed, most people are just folk very much like me.

I spent 4 months working in Pakistan. Soon after I got there, one of my Pakistani colleagues told me that just like working in a photographic darkroom (in the days of chemical photography) it very soon becomes natural to expect skin to be dark in the image, rather than light - and that this factor is entirely immaterial.

Mostly, I've found that to be entirely true.

It is true that many advances in Math and Science originated in Arabia and other places in the Middle East. However, I believe it is also true that most of those advances occurred BEFORE the advent of Islam. I don't know how this could be determined, unless somebody were to look up the effective dates of individual advances.

There are evil persons who identify themselves as Muslims, just as there are evil persons who identify themselves as Christians. All large groups have a lunatic fringe. However, I must say, the Muslim lunatic fringe is much wider than the Christian one, and includes many members of the clergy.

 

[sr71plt]

However, I must say, the Muslim lunatic fringe is much wider than the Christian one, and includes many members of the clergy.

Evidence for this (other than personal prejudice)? Come to Virginia; I'll introduce you to Pat Robertson. Jerry Falwell's dead, but his son is pretty much filling his shoes on the Christian lunatic fringe.

 

[Boxlicker101]

I found a link to this on another forum, and thought I'd share.

It's totally not how I'd imagined Iran, and somehow it makes the Axis of Evil label that much harder to swallow.

http://www.lucasgray.com/video/peacetrain.html

You know, if a government photographer had walked around Berlin in the summer of 1939, he could have taken pictures similar to these, except they would probably have been in black and white, since color film was not that common at the time.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Evidence for this (other than personal prejudice)? Come to Virginia; I'll introduce you to Pat Robertson. Jerry Falwell's dead, but his son is pretty much filling his shoes on the Christian lunatic fringe.

The ayatollahs who run Iran are all clergymen, and you can ask the English about Muslim clergy in London. Pat Robertson is a member of the Christian lunatic fringe, as was Falwell, but they are vastly outnumbered by fanatical Muslim clergy.

ETA: I will say one thing for Robertson and Falwell: They are not calling on their followers to commit mass murder.

 

[Edward Teach]

Evidence for this (other than personal prejudice)? Come to Virginia; I'll introduce you to Pat Robertson. Jerry Falwell's dead, but his son is pretty much filling his shoes on the Christian lunatic fringe.

Pat Robertson is one of the most dangerous men in the world, and I'm not joking.

Robertson has always been smarter, more calculating and richer (he's a billionaire) than the other Christian Right yahoos. Robertson wants to conquer the world, seriously, has a plan, and is executing it. Much of what is going on with the Christian Right Cons today, was orchestrated by Robertson.

 

[Edward Teach]

You know, if a government photographer had walked around Berlin in the summer of 1939, he could have taken pictures similar to these, except they would probably have been in black and white, since color film was not that common at the time.

Box, you miss the point EVERY time. You have to be doing that shit on purpose.

 

[sr71plt]

The ayatollahs who run Iran are all clergymen, and you can ask the English about Muslim clergy in London. Pat Robertson is a member of the Christian lunatic fringe, as was Falwell, but they are vastly outnumbered by fanatical Muslim clergy.

ETA: I will say one thing for Robertson and Falwell: They are not calling on their followers to commit mass murder.

Robertson and Falwell are just the tip of a whole boatload of Christian fanatic clergymen in the United States. You're just commenting out of prejudice and ignorance. What a surprise.

 

[Stella_Omega]

The ayatollahs who run Iran are all clergymen, and you can ask the English about Muslim clergy in London. Pat Robertson is a member of the Christian lunatic fringe, as was Falwell, but they are vastly outnumbered by fanatical Muslim clergy.

ETA: I will say one thing for Robertson and Falwell: They are not calling on their followers to commit mass murder.

Not in blatant language, no. And I know that only the most blatant language registers with you.

But when they tell Americans that god won't be on our side if we suffer them evil gays to live, what is that?

 

[sr71plt]

I heard Robertson tell us to kill Muslims once. think he was off his meds that day.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxlicker101
You know, if a government photographer had walked around Berlin in the summer of 1939, he could have taken pictures similar to these, except they would probably have been in black and white, since color film was not that common at the time.

Box, you miss the point EVERY time. You have to be doing that shit on purpose.

My remark was in response to the rather rose-tinted glasses comment of Sche:

It's totally not how I'd imagined Iran, and somehow it makes the Axis of Evil label that much harder to swallow.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxlicker101
The ayatollahs who run Iran are all clergymen, and you can ask the English about Muslim clergy in London. Pat Robertson is a member of the Christian lunatic fringe, as was Falwell, but they are vastly outnumbered by fanatical Muslim clergy.

ETA: I will say one thing for Robertson and Falwell: They are not calling on their followers to commit mass murder.

Not in blatant language, no. And I know that only the most blatant language registers with you.

It's true that I am not very subtle, but neither are most men.

But when they tell Americans that god won't be on our side if we suffer them evil gays to live, what is that?

It's a hateful thing to say, but it is a far cry from calling on all members of one faith to murder all members of other faiths. I'm not defending anybody, least of all Robertson and his ilk. I have no use for any organized religion, considering it to be a parasitic growth. However, I believe that Islam is worse than any other major religion.

 

[sr71plt]

I believe that Islam is worse than any other major religion.

Sure you do. You were influenced by whatever provincial bigot taught you.

Pat, pat.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Originally Posted by Boxlicker101
I believe that Islam is worse than any other major religion.


[QUOTE: sr71plt: Sure you do. You were influenced by whatever provincial bigot taught you.

Pat, pat.

You know, if you are going to quote people, you should have enough integrity to refrain from quoting them out of context. Here is the whole short paragraph that you are partially quoting:

It's a hateful thing to say, but it is a far cry from calling on all members of one faith to murder all members of other faiths. I'm not defending anybody, least of all Robertson and his ilk. I have no use for any organized religion, considering it to be a parasitic growth. However, I believe that Islam is worse than any other major religion.

 

[DeeZire]

I agree with Box (even though I can't see what he's posted.)

You could see it in their eyes - everyone of those evil Iranians hates America and everything America stands for. The fact that an Iranian city looks shockingly like an American city proves that they're plotting to come here to our homeland and commit acts of terrorism.

"Where's the proof?" you may ask. Jesus, shit-fer-brains, wake up! They're emulating cheesy American architecture so that when they arrive here, they'll already be accustomed to the "American-ness" of the place, and they'll be able to carry out their evil deeds without getting distracted. Did you notice they even imported some American snow so they would be able to plant bombs in places like Aspen and Lake Tahoe without falling off their skis? They've got it down to the last detail. It's freakin' scary.

Did you also notice they had a subversive Muslim (from the terrorist watch list) doing the background music? What a slap in the face that was, mocking peace with that sick and twisted song. Peace Train? I get it. They're referring to the sexual connotation of train - they're going to fuck us in the ass with sticks of dynamite. (Talk about a mindblowing fuck...) Plus, the communal aspect of the train proves that those dastardly Muslims are also Communists, and they're probably Nazis to boot, since many of them will bring their snow boots, which resemble Nazi boots.

And the worst part of it is, B. Hussein Obama is (probably) their advance man, coordinating the attack from within. If he is unsuccessful in imposing socialism on us, he'll just make the call, and the Iranians will show up in droves, all of them on student visas, and they'll bomb us to kingdom come while singing the Peace Train song.

Now I have to go to the store. I need a new hat and I have run out of tin foil.

 

[amicus]

I thought not to offer comment on this thread, to each his own and the video certainly expressed more than I had seen before...however...

...my youngest daughter just completed a mini tour of the Big Apple, New York City and sent me some photo's that were impressive. I have also seen 'the city', the center of art, business and intellectual endeavor in the entire world, the hub of everything that is anything, you can find there.

But you know what? Some one attacked that magnificent city and killed many young, innocent people, men women and children were there, as the Iranians in the video were, enjoying a peaceful beautiful day.

War by any definition is a sad commentary on man.

I continue to find it strange indeed that the Muslim world, placing women in utter dependence, with no rights of their own, is not vilified by those who claim support for civil rights and ignore the plight of Muslim women everywhere.

I have a moral right, if not obligation, to go to the aid of a woman being raped on the streets of my small village. All free men have that same right and obligation, if they can, to go to the aid of oppressed people anywhere in the world. We are all human and our rights are innate.

Ask not for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for the subjugation of women in the Middle East.

It would seem logical the liberal, civil rights rhetoric of the left would also apply. Sadly, it does not.

Amicus...

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

AMICUS

The Usual Suspects are cowards in most respects. Your garden variety Usual Suspect will never be a gladiator or Dodge City marshal.

 

[Verdad]

Anyone read Marjane Satrapi's graphic novel "Persepolis"? An animated movie has been made since, though I've missed it.

Satrapi is an Iranian authoress now living in France. "Persepolis" is a story of her growing up during and after the Iranian Islamic revolution. The feeling I had reading it might have been similar to what prompted Scheherezade to post the photos. A sort of naïve surprise, like, wow, so Iran isn't a complete buttfuck where people keep the goats in the bedroom? I knew that on an intellectual level, I knew they had all the things you see in the photos, the modern buildings and the philharmonic orchestras, yet it took the insider's view to really bring it home to me.

"Persepolis" is by no means a happy story, though. It's a story of Satrapi's coming of age and her country's descent into totalitarianism. The part that surprises an ignorant Westerner is that it begins with all the familiar stuff; the school kids wear snickers, buy Michael Jackson records, and partake of everything else that makes the pop culture of the time. Boys and girls mix happily with each other. Satrapi's parents, well-situated intellectuals, differ not from the people we know. Then it begins, though, the killings and imprisonments, the burkas and the sexual segregation. Satrapi's parents contemplate fleeing to the US, but decide against. The life of a taxi driver and a waitress is what they could hope for there, at best. They send Marjane to be schooled in Europe, but stay behind themselves. Herself, although expatriated, retains a strong connection with her culture and her country.

The moral of the story? I don't know if I have one. Satrapi does not; she merely tells it. It is a good idea to put a bit of a human face on something one is eager to bomb to smithereens, though.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Nazi Germany had modern buildings and symphony orchestras and Red Cross and Interstate highways.

Idiot.

 

[Verdad]

Put me on ignore. It will save you from idiocy and it will save me from my words being used as a basis for your mounting a strawman. Build one from the scratch, then stomp it to death all you like.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

VERDAD

You bite any plausible bait offered. You'll profit from a dab of critical thinking before you gush and hop aboard the bandwagon. When you walk around with a toilet paper tail, I'm gonna call you on it.