NHS In The Corridor

[Stella_Omega]

It's not my point. It may well be the point of the NHS, at least at the policy level. On the much maligned USA, ANYONE can get care at an emergency room, regardless of ability to pay. In Canada, they put people on a waiting list and/or sometimes send them to the USA. If what I have read is true, the NHS tells the elderly, "Take two asprin, lots of liquids and don't call us in the morning."

Last year I severed a tendon in a finger, and I spent 36 hours in a bed waiting for the emergency surgeons to get to my case.

The bed was in a hallway for the first 24 hours, lined up along with many others. Then I got into a room-- the room was set up for five beds but held eight.

I am paying off ten thousand dollars worth of emergency room charges for that. Critical care facility wouldn't touch it without a three-thousand-dollar payment up front, which I did not have.

So there are already waiting lists, and no help for costs-- that's not the reason for wait times.

 

[matriarch]

Guys, it really is pointless trying to reason with RR, he is completely blinkered when it comes to UK healthcare, and although I've completely lost interest in his anti-NHS ramblings, I'd like to know just why he despises our system so much.

The only thing that would open his eyes is to live here for an extended time as a person with ongoing health problems and see just how his needs are catered for. I personally have no complaints whatsoever, for the whole of my life, my children's lives, my ex's life and my wife's life, not to mention my 88 and 89 year old parents, who have all the problems associated with very old age, as well as a history of minor-non-debilitating strokes for my father, high blood pressure for both of them; oh, and my totally-dependent sister stricken down with MS nearly 40 years ago, and her 29 year old daughter, also stricken with the same disease. Oh, not to mention my younger brother who was diagnosed with adult diabetes a few years ago, and cancerous moles on his back a short while ago. Oh, and how about me.....60 years old, overweight, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, smoker................. history of minor stroke........and my elder brother in USA, still struggling to pay for his 'share' of the cost of his cancer treatment for a non-operable tumour on his spine.

As you can see, as a family we are pretty high risk....I have a feeling the premiums asked by any health care coverage company in the States, IF we could get one to take us on, would be beyond our means. Over here, we get ALL the care we need, without the added stress of wondering how much the insurance company will pay, and how much we wil have to finance ourselves.

Like I said before, no-brainer.

I now rest my case and leave this pointless NHS bashing thread.

 

[SimonBrooke]

It's called self insurance. The same self insurance that his wife Jane got from the international science people.

You have to imagine a paraplegic, lying in bed with pneumonia, unable to speak and perhaps unable even to press a button for help. The NHS says, wait for your daily hour of nursing care. At least the scientific people realized that keeping Hawking alive was in the interest of the whole world.

You do talk a load of rubbish.

You can go into accident and emergency in any hospital in the UK at any time, 42/7, 365 days a year, and you will get treatment quickly. And it will be free, even if you're American. And if you're in bed in any NHS hospital, you will have a bell push on a cord, normally tucked under your pillow, and if you press it a nurse will come.

Before you spout a lot of bollocks about things you've never experienced, try it.

Notice that not a single person from the UK, in this long thread, has reported any bad experience of the NHS. Things do go wrong in the NHS - it is, after all, the biggest single employer in the world. But things go wrong extremely rarely. And everyone gets care and treatment.

 

[oggbashan]

...An interesting news item earlier this Sunday morning...a Canadian city, near the US border, sends over 7,000 Candians a year in need of emergency care to a nearby US Hospital and the Canadian health service pays for it because they do not have the facilities to care for them.

...

Amicus

If that is the appropriate solution, and the Canadians' health service pays for it, what is wrong with that? I would be unhappy if I wanted emergency care and I was prevented from using the nearest facility because it was the other side of a political boundary.

Every year several NHS patients from Kent, England, are sent to French hospitals for operations. The French specialist facilities for their conditions are closer to parts of Kent than the alternative specialists in London and/or they have spare capacity. The cost of treatment and travel are paid for by the UK's National Health Service. The aftercare once the patient has returned to the UK is continued by the UK's NHS using the French hospital's information.

It saves taxpayers' money and provides a quicker resolution. It's a win/win scenario. The French surgeons can even speak English. Why not? Most medical journals around the world are published in English. Even the French ones can be purchased in English translations.

Og

 

[vrosej10]

If the goods are taxable, the tax is added at the cash register. If I pick out a $100 taxable item and take it to the cash register, I am charged $108.75 and receive a cash register tape that includes $8.75 in sales tax.

In some places, it doesn't work quite like that. Purchases from a vending machine are understood to include sales tax when the goods are taxable. The cost of drinks in a bar include ST. The pump price of motor fuels includes ST. Sometimes restaurants will include ST in their selling prices by posting a sign that says "All prices include sales tax" or words to that effect.

These are CA tax laws I am citing. Other states have different laws and some states have no sales tax.

We have or own version of sales tac in Aussie. Its called the GST and although we voted against it, we still got it. Since then, we've been refering to it as the Get Screwed Tax.

 

[ishtat]

We have or own version of sales tac in Aussie. Its called the GST and although we voted against it, we still got it. Since then, we've been refering to it as the Get Screwed Tax.

Although the party that introduced it said prior to the election that they had no plans to do so we voted them back in three times so can hardly complain.

 

[Boxlicker101]

We have or own version of sales tac in Aussie. Its called the GST and although we voted against it, we still got it. Since then, we've been refering to it as the Get Screwed Tax.

I think it's a universal fact: Governments don't give a shit what the citizens want.

 

[oggbashan]

I think it's a universal fact: Governments don't give a shit what the citizens want.

Income tax was introduced in the UK in 1799 to pay for the war against Napoleon Bonaparte. It was supposed to be an emergency and temporary measure.

What most people don't know is that it was stopped when peace was signed and restarted when war broke out again. It was abolished for nearly twenty years before being reintroduced in the mid-19th Century. It still is a temporary tax. If Parliament didn't pass the Finance Bill each year then UK Income Tax would be illegal. There are provisions that allow Income Tax to continue to be collected for a few months until the Finance Bill is passed.

Stop this temporary tax now! 210 years is long enough for a temporary measure!

Og

 

[R. Richard]

Income tax was introduced in the UK in 1799 to pay for the war against Napoleon Bonaparte. It was supposed to be an emergency and temporary measure.

What most people don't know is that it was stopped when peace was signed and restarted when war broke out again. It was abolished for nearly twenty years before being reintroduced in the mid-19th Century. It still is a temporary tax. If Parliament didn't pass the Finance Bill each year then UK Income Tax would be illegal. There are provisions that allow Income Tax to continue to be collected for a few months until the Finance Bill is passed.

Stop this temporary tax now! 210 years is long enough for a temporary measure!

Og

"There are only two sure things, death and taxes." [They're working on death.]

 

[oggbashan]

"There are only two sure things, death and taxes." [They're working on death.]

Even in 1799, Income Tax was only one of the ways that the government extracted money from its citizens. We've had window tax, hearth tax, tax on male servants, tax on salt, insistence that everyone should be buried in a woollen shroud (on which tax had to be paid) rather than any other material.

Today the UK government added another two pence per litre to the price of gasoline and diesel fuels. Locally the pump price is now 108.9 to 110.9 pence per litre.

I pay tax on my income. If I spend money I pay Value Added Tax. If I save money I get taxed on the interest earned on my savings. If I take out insurance I pay tax on the premium. If I sell my house I pay Stamp Duty (one of the taxes that led to the Boston Tea Party). If I buy alcohol I pay tax. The list is almost endless.

Og

 

[Boxlicker101]

Income tax was introduced in the UK in 1799 to pay for the war against Napoleon Bonaparte. It was supposed to be an emergency and temporary measure.

What most people don't know is that it was stopped when peace was signed and restarted when war broke out again. It was abolished for nearly twenty years before being reintroduced in the mid-19th Century. It still is a temporary tax. If Parliament didn't pass the Finance Bill each year then UK Income Tax would be illegal. There are provisions that allow Income Tax to continue to be collected for a few months until the Finance Bill is passed.

Stop this temporary tax now! 210 years is long enough for a temporary measure!

Og

You mean it was introduced to finance the wars of aggression by England and other European monarchies against the French republic.

 

[Stella_Omega]

The public option is It's not about cost savings and insurance rates: it's about the people we all know who live in fear, pain or debt because the current system is broken.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

The public option is It's not about cost savings and insurance rates: it's about the people we all know who live in fear, pain or debt because the current system is broken.

Stella,
I can't see how the U.S. Government can run a health care system "efficently" as claimed when their pattern is based on the Medicare system.

 

[R. Richard]

Stella,
I can't see how the U.S. Government can run a health care system "efficently" as claimed when their pattern is based on the Medicare system.

If you can't see it, that's because it's non-existent. If you think you can see it, that's when you have to worry.

 

[Stella_Omega]

they do pretty well considering how many Enemies of Creeping Socialism there are doing everything possible to damage these systems.

 

[oggbashan]

You mean it was introduced to finance the wars of aggression by England and other European monarchies against the French republic.

No. In 1799 Napoleon Bonaparte had declared himself First Consul and effectively ended the French Republic (a process he completed five years later when he declared himself Emperor of the French).

Other European countries were more concerned about the spead of the ideas of Republican France than England was. We already had a constitutional monarchy and parliamentary government since the Glorious Revolution of 1688 even if George III unsuccessfully tried to reverse the process (and his supporters alienated the American Colonies). Although we had sympathisers for The Rights of Man and Liberty, Equality, Fraternity they didn't have much influence because we already had more freedoms than the French had had before 1789 (and the French had the weird idea that women were equal citizens!).

I think that the main reason that the ideas of the French Revolution didn't take root in England was because the ideas were FRENCH! The French had been enemies of England for centuries.

Og

 

[R. Richard]

Other European countries were more concerned about the spead of the ideas of Republican France than England was. We already had a constitutional monarchy and parliamentary government since the Glorious Revolution of 1688 even if George III unsuccessfully tried to reverse the process (and his supporters alienated the American Colonies). Although we had sympathisers for The Rights of Man and Liberty, Equality, Fraternity they didn't have much influence because we already had more freedoms than the French had had before 1789 (and the French had the weird idea that women were equal citizens!).

Og

I forget who said it, but truly it is written, "There is a vas deferens between men and women."

 

[Stella_Omega]

I forget who said it, but truly it is written, "There is a vas deferens between men and women."

that's "Truthily" written.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxlicker101
You mean it was introduced to finance the wars of aggression by England and other European monarchies against the French republic.

No. In 1799 Napoleon Bonaparte had declared himself First Consul and effectively ended the French Republic (a process he completed five years later when he declared himself Emperor of the French).

Other European countries were more concerned about the spead of the ideas of Republican France than England was. We already had a constitutional monarchy and parliamentary government since the Glorious Revolution of 1688 even if George III unsuccessfully tried to reverse the process (and his supporters alienated the American Colonies). Although we had sympathisers for The Rights of Man and Liberty, Equality, Fraternity they didn't have much influence because we already had more freedoms than the French had had before 1789 (and the French had the weird idea that women were equal citizens!).

I think that the main reason that the ideas of the French Revolution didn't take root in England was because the ideas were FRENCH! The French had been enemies of England for centuries.

Og

Generally speaking, The Napoleonic Wars were a series of conflicts involving France and most of Europe. The first of these was War of the First Coalition, which began in 1793. Napoleon was a military leader then, and won victories over European monarchies, including England, who had aggressively attacked France.

Ideologically speaking, England and France had more in common with each other than with the other major nations of Europe, but they were traditional enemies dating back hundreds of years. By 1850, they had become allies, mainly because of the rise in power of Russia and Prussia, later Germany.

 

[oggbashan]

...Ideologically speaking, England and France had more in common with each other than with the other major nations of Europe, but they were traditional enemies dating back hundreds of years. By 1850, they had become allies, mainly because of the rise in power of Russia and Prussia, later Germany.

Ouch! It didn't last for very long after the Crimean War. By 1860 we were planning to overhaul and massively increase our coastal defences in response to the perceived threat from France. The revenue necessary to pay for "Palmerstone's follies" was immense. In Dover, Kent, the Western Heights defense system used more bricks than all the houses that had built in the whole of Kent up to that time.

The launch of France's ironclad La Gloire raised the stakes in the naval competition between France and the UK which were met by the launch of wholly iron-hulled HMS Warrior (now restored and resting in Portsmouth). La Gloire could have outrun and outgunned any ship of the Royal Navy. HMS Warrior could outmanoeuvre and outgun La Gloire and any other naval ship in the world - until the Royal Navy built improved versions.

Even when we signed an Entente Cordiale with France (and Russia) in the early twentieth century, the British War office still considered that war against France was more likely than war against Germany. After all the British Royal family and the German Imperial family were closely related. Even when World War 1 started the UK didn't go to war for France but for Belgium whose neutrality we had guaranteed.

Og

 

[amicus]

Before socialized medicine gets totally swallowed by a course in British and European History...it seems as though the Obama administration is following the lead of the former Soviet Union by enlisting Artists, through the NEA, National Endowment for the Arts, financed by tax monies, to promote the Democrat health plan throughtout the art world in America.

Under socialism and fascism, artists were allowed to survive, if and only if, their art reflected the State and the nationalist policies of the leaders.

Recorded telephone calls were unveiled today between the White House and the NEA, with plans afoot to promote nationalized health care.

The arts are mainly Liberal oriented anyway, but a compact between government and the arts is a dangerous path to follow.

Amicus

 

[Boxlicker101]

Before socialized medicine gets totally swallowed by a course in British and European History...it seems as though the Obama administration is following the lead of the former Soviet Union by enlisting Artists, through the NEA, National Endowment for the Arts, financed by tax monies, to promote the Democrat health plan throughtout the art world in America.

Under socialism and fascism, artists were allowed to survive, if and only if, their art reflected the State and the nationalist policies of the leaders.

Recorded telephone calls were unveiled today between the White House and the NEA, with plans afoot to promote nationalized health care.

The arts are mainly Liberal oriented anyway, but a compact between government and the arts is a dangerous path to follow.

Amicus

"Art" in a wide sense, includes literature, and that includes us. I wonder if I can get taxpayer money to continue writing smut.

 

[Katyusha]

You do talk a load of rubbish.

You can go into accident and emergency in any hospital in the UK at any time, 42/7, 365 days a year, and you will get treatment quickly. And it will be free, even if you're American. And if you're in bed in any NHS hospital, you will have a bell push on a cord, normally tucked under your pillow, and if you press it a nurse will come.

A day is 42 hours in the UK???



One thing I've not yet seen mentioned here (although I admit I have not read every post in this thread) is the fact that elsewhere in the world, there are countries whose hospitals, clinics, and practitioners' offices are private, and insurance is carried through private insurers, but those insurers exist solely to pay people's medical bills[/b]. They do not exist to make a profit. Thus, they can take on people who would be considered "too big a risk" in this country, because so long as they don't end up in the red every year they're fine.

Here, because of their for-profit nature, our insurance companies are too worried about their bottom line to adequately do what they're supposed to be doing, which is paying people's medical bills. So they refuse to cover people with pre-existing conditions, because those people will have higher bills and more frequent bills. They drop policyholders when they develop conditions that are going to exceed a certain dollar threshold. They hike their premiums at nearly ten times the rate of inflation so they can fatten their bottom lines.

And before anybody tries to tell me that this is only part of the problem (if those of you who will argue this acknowledge it's even a problem), know that I am already well aware of that.

One other thing, in Germany (and probably elsewhere as well), an insurance company cannot cancel your policy for any reason except failure to pay your premiums. You pay your premiums, they pay your medical bills. End of.

 

[amicus]

Box...I think the 'Maplethorp' era answered your question, yes, smut comes under the umbrella of the NEA.

And, Katyusha, how I love the look of your screen name....a 'not for profit' health concern here in the US, just had their executive pay scales and bonus schedules released today, all were between $300,000 & $600,000 annually.

Pretty cushy for non profit, eh?

Amicus

 

[R. Richard]

A day is 42 hours in the UK???

Not only that, there are eight days in the UK week. (The Beatles explain it all in a song.)