Seeking A Little Advice

[Mac98]

Hey everyone, I have a corny question that I've been fighting with for some time and thought maybe a I could find SOME considerate people on Lit to help me out.

Before I say anything, I must warn you that if you're not in the mood to be wasting your time, you're probably in the wrong place, because it is, to many, a corny, immature question... or situation. To those who actually DO give me advice, I thank you.

So here's the deal. I'm a teen (or a young adult) between the ages of... say... 18 and 21... and last week, for my birthday, I went up north with some friends. It was sorta' like a posh camping trip.

The thing is, some of my friends I hadn't seen in almost a year joined me and, like an IDIOT, I had invited a friend of mine who I've had more than a crush on for the longest time.

The story goes that back when we were both young teens, we were in each other's math class, her mom knew my mom and that's how we became friends. I felt attracted to her almost instantly, but never thought more of it than that. A few years went by, we were never REALLY close friends, but kept in touch, I'd invite her to my birthday, parties and movies, always with other friends around. But the more I'd hang out with her, the more my feelings for her grew. Then, 2 years ago, I invited my best friend over to my bday party, and I invited her too and wouldn't you know it, a year goes by after that and now my best friend is dating the girl I've had feelings for all this time.

I never conned myself into believing she had feelings for me, that type of thing is always immediately sensed and I didn't sense it. I cut contact with my best friend and his girlfriend for some time (for seperate reasons). But a few months ago we talked things out, apologies were handed and now everything's cool... but last week, when I saw her again, my heart sank and since then I can't get her out of my head.

She doesn't have a clue about this, nor anyone else. It's something I've kept to myself for all this time until now.

I've been debating in my head weather it's time to finally let her know how I've felt about her all this time (which would ultimately ruin my friendship with both her and my best friend, this I know), but would really be a HUGE weight off my shoulders or if I should just not tell anyone and let things go as are and at least maintain a friendship with both of them.

This being said, I remind you that although staying friends with them is a little SM, I do enjoy both their company a lot... especially my best friend (who's dating her) who I've been friends with since I'm 7.

 

[simplegirl]

I'm not in your shoes, so take this with a grain of salt. But what would be the benefit of admitting your feelings at this moment? She's in a relationship. Unless, deep down, you're hoping she left your best friend for you. I tend to think it would just cause confusing feelings and awkwardness for all involved.

If she becomes single, THEN, by all means share your feelings for her. But while she's taken, I'd keep my mouth shut. Both with her and your best friend.

 

[gloriann]

Is she happy? Are they happy as a couple? If so, you've got no right to throw a monkey wrench into their relationship just because you didn't act on your feelings before, especially if it will ruin friendships. There's too much at stake.

If they're not happy, you still can't do anything until some time has passed, for the same reasons as above.

I was in a similar situation when I was younger, and it sucks, but, the truth is, if you want to keep friends, you keep your trap shut and find another girl to distract you.

 

[Mac98]

I appreciate the advice. My first choice has always been to keep my mouth shut and to just go through the motions. But as you say, it definately sucks and it has sucked for a little too long.

Their relationship is going through somewhat of a rough time, but I know she's quite in love with him... I know for a fact, though, that my friend wishes he could "explore other opportunities" which he has done... once... However, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be throwing wrenches in their wheels by saying something, cuz I'm certain she doesn't have those feelings for me, it would just be a load off my chest. But it would be the end of any friendship I have with them.

But I guess you're right, it's better to just not say anything. But a part of me really wishes I could... IT'S EATING ME UP INSIDE!! (à la Cosmo Kramer).

Thanks again for the advice. Greatly appreciated.

 

[Noor]

Wow! I heard story like this about 20yrs ago late one night in a Germany youth hostel. The guy who was telling it was borderline suicidal because the girl he loved and never told was marrying his best friend. I say borderline because he was doing dumb stuff like driving on causeways without headlights at night and such.

Anyway, in your case, I would not recommend you telling her how you have always felt unless you someday find yourself in a committed relationship with her. Women hate hearing how someone liked or loved them so much they never said anything until they were already seriously involved with someone else or you are. I speak from experience here.

At best you might tell her if she is ever single again, to let you know or that you wished you could find someone like her to date and leave it at that. If she does become available wait a while until your best friend is back dating someone else then ask her out.

 

[Noor]

I should also add that I have found being best friends with someone can be a lot different than being in a relationship with them. Fantasies, even mutual ones, can become bad realities sometimes.

 

[Mac98]

I understand where you're getting at... but I doubt highly I'd ever be able to keep that to myself for the rest of my life. I don't ever plan on dating her unless she were to magically grow intimate feelings towards me, it's more to just to get the weight off my chest. And don't get me wrong, I'm not suicidal... at all. I'm just sick of the tearing feeling.

And yeah, like gloriann said, it's my own fault for never having mentioned it before, although I was keen on the friendship I had with her and knew that if I ever said anything, it would be the end of it. I guess that's just part of my psychology, I reject before being rejected... I guess I should change that because I realize today how many chances I've passed up.

But again, just to be clear, there's a difference between asking her out and telling her how I feel about her. Like I said, I'm 99.999_% sure she doesn't feel the same way towards me, and I'm fine with that, I just really wish I could get it off my chest.

But I guess it'll have to wait. Thanks for all the great advice everyone. Anyone else who'd like to throw in his 2 cents is welcome too.

 

[miaction69]

........what if she was the one person who was right for you....and you did nothing about it coz she's in a relationship???? BUT
.....bide ur time - don't loose ur best mate - friends are forever -
if he's not right for her they'll split - then the timing will be right
and don't put ur life on hold waiting for her - u just never know what's in the future
people in exisiting relationships fuck with your head - but if she wants you...you'll know about it

 

[Mac98]

........what if she was the one person who was right for you....and you did nothing about it coz she's in a relationship???? BUT
.....bide ur time - don't loose ur best mate - friends are forever -
if he's not right for her they'll split - then the timing will be right
and don't put ur life on hold waiting for her - u just never know what's in the future
people in exisiting relationships fuck with your head - but if she wants you...you'll know about it

I thought about that too... I've kicked myself for never having said anything before. I spent a year listening to my best friend rave about her day and night which somewhat suited me since I could express my feelings through him (but not TO him)... only I didn't think ahead and he beat me to it. But in a relationship or not, I would lose my friendship to both of them if I said anything... ever. It would be weird hearing how (and I'm putting myself in my friend's shoes here) your best friend has had intense feelings for your girlfriend all this time... I think he'd put into question a lot of things that have happened in the past (though none would be justified).

I've tried moving on, I thought not talking or seeing them for a whole year would help, but it didn't... if anything, it just made it worse when I saw her last week. I feel like such a loser. It's hard to be taken seriously when you're expressing "Puppy Love" emotions...

But thanks again for all the advice from everyone. Really helps put things into perspective. It's nice to have people outside looking in.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

At best you might tell her if she is ever single again, to let you know or that you wished you could find someone like her to date and leave it at that. If she does become available wait a while until your best friend is back dating someone else then ask her out.

I think this is a good way to go. Rather than directly threaten their relationship, you can put the ball in her court and let her know that if and when she's single again, you've always really liked her.

I'd recommend doing this after a few drinks, because if it all backfires you can blame the booze and laugh it off without losing your friends. Ask her how things are going with her man because nobody can judge how happy a relationship really is from the outside. Then say something like, 'I don't think I'll ever forgive myself for getting you guys together. I hope he's treating you right.' Don't let on that you've been pining for her all this time or you'll seem creepy and obsessive. Keep it light hearted and then move the conversation on to something else (unless she wants to talk about it more) so that she doesn't feel too awkward. As much as you want to be sure of whether she's ever had feelings for you, you can't just throw her a curveball like that and expect her to spell out how much she likes you. Just put the idea out there and see for yourself how she processes and responds to it.

 

[Mac98]

I think this is a good way to go. Rather than directly threaten their relationship, you can put the ball in her court and let her know that if and when she's single again, you've always really liked her.

I'd recommend doing this after a few drinks, because if it all backfires you can blame the booze and laugh it off without losing your friends. Ask her how things are going with her man because nobody can judge how happy a relationship really is from the outside. Then say something like, 'I don't think I'll ever forgive myself for getting you guys together. I hope he's treating you right.' Don't let on that you've been pining for her all this time or you'll seem creepy and obsessive. Keep it light hearted and then move the conversation on to something else (unless she wants to talk about it more) so that she doesn't feel too awkward. As much as you want to be sure of whether she's ever had feelings for you, you can't just throw her a curveball like that and expect her to spell out how much she likes you. Just put the idea out there and see for yourself how she processes and responds to it.

And you mean I should do this at what time?

 

[VelvetDarkness]

I've tried moving on, I thought not talking or seeing them for a whole year would help, but it didn't... if anything, it just made it worse when I saw her last week. I feel like such a loser. It's hard to be taken seriously when you're expressing "Puppy Love" emotions...

It sounds to me as though you've put this girl on a pedestal, which is unhealthy. She hasn't been around for you to argue with her, get fed up with her or otherwise lose interest in her. You can't say how your friendship would have developed if you'd seen a lot of her over the past year. It's still 'puppy love' emotion because it hasn't been tested or resolved in any way. Even if they do split in the future, dating her may not live up to your expectations at all.

And you mean I should do this at what time?

When you're most likely to bring it off without losing friends or face. After a few drinks would be good, as I said before. Don't do it if she's likely to get drunk however, or she may not even remember the conversation. Obviously, don't try it when her man is anywhere nearby, or anyone else who's likely to say something to him if they overhear. Keep it light and brief and just see how she reacts to the idea of you as a romantic prospect. If you're forever destined to be in the friend zone, it'll soon become apparent. If you're not... hopefully ditto.

If she does have problems with her boyfriend, please try and resist setting yourself up as a shoulder to cry on. Hearing all the details will likely pain you and few things scream 'I want your woman' more than colluding with her when she complains about her man and suddenly acting like an honorary sympathetic girlfriend. You don't want her dating you on the rebound and you don't want to become responsible for a split. If they split due to their own issues, all well and good. If you start quietly encouraging her to leave him, it could all backfire and they could both blame you. When feelings are running high, rationality goes out the window and you'd be a handy scapegoat if you got too close to her at a time when things are rocky between them.

If they're blissfully happy and she gives no indication that she fancies you, accept defeat gracefully. Bitterness and jealousy will only hurt you all the more. Obsessing about her when you know there's no hope will also blind you to other potential girlfriends. There is more than one woman out of the billions walking planet Earth who is right for you.

 

[NightL]

I just wish I was that young again... hell, if I could be... bring on all the heart ache!!!

..***** moves in mysterious ways... and if you are clever, you may just be able to manipulate it... be clever...

 

[missymoomoo]

I have never been in this exact situation but I have had really close friends tell me that they had strong feelings for me whilst I was in commited relationships with other people. Regardless of if they seem happy or not no one should go along and throw undue stress on people. I never liked the people that told me the liked me in that way. Sometimes it is better to be friends, when I was around 18 I went out with a friend who had claimd to of liked me since the begining of high-school then when we went out he realised he just liked me as a friend anyway. We are still friends to this day. Nice.

 

[Mac98]

It sounds to me as though you've put this girl on a pedestal, which is unhealthy. She hasn't been around for you to argue with her, get fed up with her or otherwise lose interest in her. You can't say how your friendship would have developed if you'd seen a lot of her over the past year. It's still 'puppy love' emotion because it hasn't been tested or resolved in any way. Even if they do split in the future, dating her may not live up to your expectations at all.



When you're most likely to bring it off without losing friends or face. After a few drinks would be good, as I said before. Don't do it if she's likely to get drunk however, or she may not even remember the conversation. Obviously, don't try it when her man is anywhere nearby, or anyone else who's likely to say something to him if they overhear. Keep it light and brief and just see how she reacts to the idea of you as a romantic prospect. If you're forever destined to be in the friend zone, it'll soon become apparent. If you're not... hopefully ditto.

If she does have problems with her boyfriend, please try and resist setting yourself up as a shoulder to cry on. Hearing all the details will likely pain you and few things scream 'I want your woman' more than colluding with her when she complains about her man and suddenly acting like an honorary sympathetic girlfriend. You don't want her dating you on the rebound and you don't want to become responsible for a split. If they split due to their own issues, all well and good. If you start quietly encouraging her to leave him, it could all backfire and they could both blame you. When feelings are running high, rationality goes out the window and you'd be a handy scapegoat if you got too close to her at a time when things are rocky between them.

If they're blissfully happy and she gives no indication that she fancies you, accept defeat gracefully. Bitterness and jealousy will only hurt you all the more. Obsessing about her when you know there's no hope will also blind you to other potential girlfriends. There is more than one woman out of the billions walking planet Earth who is right for you.

Please, don't get me wrong... I'm not the jealous type and would never, EVER do anything to try and break them apart. That's not my way of doing things. And yes, I have been around her enough in the past years to see the less attractive part(s) of her personality, I've been in situations where voices got loud and some rough comments were handed out, but it still hasn't changed the way I feel about her, because there's still more good than there is bad. I also realize that if ever anything did happen and we'd get together that all may not be "happily ever after", but that doesn't exclude the fact that you learn a little bit more about yourself in every relationship, even the most mundane or brief ones.

And finally, I don't mind accepting defeat, if she doesn't like me like that, then that's just too bad for me, nothing can be done... However, that still doesn't answer my question as to weather I should tell her or not (although you did voice your opinion on that too). The question isn't weather I can handle it or not, it's weather THEY can and weather or not it's a good idea...

 

[mark_j]

And finally, I don't mind accepting defeat, if she doesn't like me like that, then that's just too bad for me, nothing can be done... However, that still doesn't answer my question as to weather I should tell her or not (although you did voice your opinion on that too). The question isn't weather I can handle it or not, it's weather THEY can and weather or not it's a good idea...

But it isn't about them. It is about you. It is about how you feel. Not them. They probably don't care one way or the other.

In reference to the part I put in bold the question really becomes, what purpose would it serve to tell them?

 

[Cathleen]

I should also add that I have found being best friends with someone can be a lot different than being in a relationship with them. Fantasies, even mutual ones, can become bad realities sometimes.

Wow! I heard story like this about 20yrs ago late one night in a Germany youth hostel. The guy who was telling it was borderline suicidal because the girl he loved and never told was marrying his best friend. I say borderline because he was doing dumb stuff like driving on causeways without headlights at night and such.

Anyway, in your case, I would not recommend you telling her how you have always felt unless you someday find yourself in a committed relationship with her. Women hate hearing how someone liked or loved them so much they never said anything until they were already seriously involved with someone else or you are. I speak from experience here.

At best you might tell her if she is ever single again, to let you know or that you wished you could find someone like her to date and leave it at that. If she does become available wait a while until your best friend is back dating someone else then ask her out.

I should also add that I have found being best friends with someone can be a lot different than being in a relationship with them. Fantasies, even mutual ones, can become bad realities sometimes.

I think Noor has the best advice. This is something you keep to yourself unless the relationship has no value to you, which you've gone to great lengthens to state he is your best friend and your feelings for her are quite deep. Stay out of their relationship. It's selfish of you to want to tell her. If you care about them, either of them, then you wouldn't be having a conflict.

You can live your life without telling her -- believe me you can do it. I am not being condescending but you're just starting out with this part of your life. It's tricky and slippery and it takes time to learn about you, your feelings, etc and to do that as your environment changes as quickly as New England weather.

Ask yourself how much you value them, as separate people, not as a couple. If you don't care go right ahead and tell her but you'll seal the deal -- you won't have her as a friend anymore. If your best friend isn't of value to you, ditto. Two people off your phone list. Kind of lonely, huh?

Please, don't get me wrong... I'm not the jealous type and would never, EVER do anything to try and break them apart. That's not my way of doing things. <snip>

Really? Then what is this discussion about? Is this about what makes you happy?


(Weather = the atmosphere, wind, temperature, clouds, moisture, pressure, etc.. Whether = alternative, which, which of the two, etc.)

 

[VelvetDarkness]

And finally, I don't mind accepting defeat, if she doesn't like me like that, then that's just too bad for me, nothing can be done... However, that still doesn't answer my question as to weather I should tell her or not (although you did voice your opinion on that too). The question isn't weather I can handle it or not, it's weather THEY can and weather or not it's a good idea...

I don't see why you would have to tell both of them, or are you assuming she'll tell her man what you've said?

I'm not going to tell you to do this or not do it, I'm sorry. I don't know you or your friends so I really can't say. Ultimately, I'm afraid it's very much your decision.

 

[Mac98]

I don't see why you would have to tell both of them, or are you assuming she'll tell her man what you've said?

I'm not going to tell you to do this or not do it, I'm sorry. I don't know you or your friends so I really can't say. Ultimately, I'm afraid it's very much your decision.

Well, I wouldn't tell my best friend about it if I were to say something... I'd go directly to her. But I guess it does boil down to my own decision. I just wanted to see if maybe I could be helped in weighing the pros and cons of it all.

And I'm thankful for the advice I've received. I wasn't expecting more help than ridicule, but it's nice that I can talk about this with you guys/girls.

Thanks again for the advice...

 

[Mac98]

I think Noor has the best advice. This is something you keep to yourself unless the relationship has no value to you, which you've gone to great lengthens to state he is your best friend and your feelings for her are quite deep. Stay out of their relationship. It's selfish of you to want to tell her. If you care about them, either of them, then you wouldn't be having a conflict.

You can live your life without telling her -- believe me you can do it. I am not being condescending but you're just starting out with this part of your life. It's tricky and slippery and it takes time to learn about you, your feelings, etc and to do that as your environment changes as quickly as New England weather.

Ask yourself how much you value them, as separate people, not as a couple. If you don't care go right ahead and tell her but you'll seal the deal -- you won't have her as a friend anymore. If your best friend isn't of value to you, ditto. Two people off your phone list. Kind of lonely, huh?






Really? Then what is this discussion about? Is this about what makes you happy?


(Weather = the atmosphere, wind, temperature, clouds, moisture, pressure, etc.. Whether = alternative, which, which of the two, etc.)

haha I love the weather definition. Great help. But what I think what some of you aren't understanding is that my plans aren't to steal her away from my friend nor is it to harm their relationship. Of course a part of me wishes it were me instead of him, but whatever, pheromones don't work like that, I guess. But I can't say I'm jelous. If I were, I don't think I'd be able to treat either of them impartially which I have a nack of doing. I've been hanging out with her for many years and with my best friend for even longer and never have they suspected a thing (And please don't see this as bragging cuz I hardly think it's something to brag about).

So envy, perhaps, but not jealousy. It's my own fault for never having said anything before, so I won't take that frustration towards myself out on them (unless they deserved it, which, for now, they don't).


And here's the ultimate question: Which is better: Telling her how I feel and having this huge weight I've been carrying for the longest time off my back but, ultimately, lose her and my best friend's respect, trust and, in the end, friendship.

OR

NOT telling her how I feel, keeping it stuffed inside some more and trying to get over it (which has proven to be futile in the past couple of years) and feeling really awkward, torn and just really really bad but at least maintaining a friendship with both of them.

Each of these options give me something great but take away from me something great too... which is why I seeked help from the outside...

 

[Noor]

haha I love the weather definition. Great help. But what I think what some of you aren't understanding is that my plans aren't to steal her away from my friend nor is it to harm their relationship. Of course a part of me wishes it were me instead of him, but whatever, pheromones don't work like that, I guess. But I can't say I'm jelous. If I were, I don't think I'd be able to treat either of them impartially which I have a nack of doing. I've been hanging out with her for many years and with my best friend for even longer and never have they suspected a thing (And please don't see this as bragging cuz I hardly think it's something to brag about).

So envy, perhaps, but not jealousy. It's my own fault for never having said anything before, so I won't take that frustration towards myself out on them (unless they deserved it, which, for now, they don't).


And here's the ultimate question: Which is better: Telling her how I feel and having this huge weight I've been carrying for the longest time off my back but, ultimately, lose her and my best friend's respect, trust and, in the end, friendship.

OR

NOT telling her how I feel, keeping it stuffed inside some more and trying to get over it (which has proven to be futile in the past couple of years) and feeling really awkward, torn and just really really bad but at least maintaining a friendship with both of them.

Each of these options give me something great but take away from me something great too... which is why I seeked help from the outside...

I have always found that a good test of my true feelings is whether I would want someone in my life even if I couldn't have the relationship I thought I wanted with them. Part of life is realizing that not all feelings need to be expressed, not everything revolves around you, and love is often doing what is best for others in situations like these.

I don't think your telling her will help you get over it or feel awkward, really bad and torn about the situation, that is something within you, destroying your friendships will just be added on top of what you already feel.

You are telling us so its no longer stuffed inside you. I think a nice distraction could help, have you considered dating some available women?

From my view point, lovers (and prospective lovers) are a dime a dozen, but good friends are few and far between. If I were you I would suck it up, find some other way of dealing with it and not risk your friendships with these people.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

Your indecision suggests that maybe now is simply not the right time to do this. You've just started hanging out with them again after a year of not spending time with them, am I right?

How about leaving things be for a while, just to be absolutely sure that your feelings for this girl won't change if you hang out with her and get better acquainted with her annoying traits as well as the things you like about her?

 

[Mac98]

Both of you make good points. I guess it would be ultimately a bad idea for me to say anything. Maybe telling her won't change anything, but I really do feel like it would be a load off my back. But maybe not, who knows?

So it's settled, then... I won't say anything.

However, I might be moving far away in August of 2010... if things maintain the status quo, I might find it hard not to say anything.

 

[Mac98]

lol I just realized this a few hours ago. When my best friend told her how he felt about her (even though everyone pretty much knew but her) for the first time, she was already dating a guy who became my best friend's best friend (sounds complicated, sorry). He just told her how he felt, told her he had feelings for her (alone, in person) and she stayed there without saying a word.

Finally, she ended up leaving her boyfriend, perhaps 6 months later (for other reasons) and maybe 6 months after that, they started dating.

So in the end, he went straight for the awkwardness and it ended up paying off for him. This would all confuse me even more if I didn't know weather she had feelings for me or not. But since I nearely know for a fact she doesn't, I guess this example is useless...

 

[subwannabe]

I don't think you should keep this bottled up inside. You should tell her how you have felt but saying it in a kind of casual way like others have suggested like you just wanted to let her know how you felt in case they ever broke up while at the same time acknowledging you realize she may not have ever felt that way about you. If you don't say anything this will bother you for the rest of your life. Get it over with and let nature take it's course.