the marks of a slave

[ownedsubgal]

Thank you, OSG. I do understand your perspective. I haven't felt such a dark depression, but I have been afraid of myself before. And I am now, too.

The difference I feel today, and the reason why my trust is shaken, is that I'm afraid he'll unleash my inner beasts on myself. Inadvertently. In the pursuit of his interests. I don't actually trust him to save me from myself.

(And, you know, as soon as I wrote that, I know that he would. Just not before I've been mangled.)

I came to this with a hope that I'd ultimately free myself from fear. But I don't think that's it at all. It's just the fear of fear that might be liberated.

I'm curious and sincere. Imagine for a moment that I'm your frightened child. How would you explain to me that this fear is healthy and good?

well, i'm absolutely horrible at speaking to children, so i'll just speak to you woman to woman, slave to slave.

i want you to notice something you said there. you said that you fear he will unleash your inner beasts on yourself, in the pursuit of his own interests. my question to you is, what's wrong with that? what is wrong with him using his property to fulfill his own personal needs, desires, whims, whatever? that is part of why we are here after all. of course, that doesn't make it any less scary. so i understand the fear.

and as i said, for us the fear is a good and healthy thing. if i had no fear of Daddy, if i always felt completely safe and secure in his grasp, then i could not respect him as a Master. now i will throw in the unnecessary disclaimer here that of course all M/s dynamics work differently, but in our M/s, fear is absolutely necessary. real, deep down, very much un-fun fear. this fear prevents me from ever getting too big for my britches, which is something that can happen easily when there is love between Master and slave. this fear keeps me ever mindful and on my toes. this fear prevents me from ever viewing my Master as a peer or equal, even though he is the love of my life and we are best friends. this fear gives him an additional layer of power over me, beyond the layers of obligation/duty, love, commitment. this fear significantly increases my vulnerability, my helplessness, my dependence on him. that's important and necessary for us, that complete and utter dependence. that extreme vulnerability. that is what makes us our M/s work.

yours of course, may work differently...but just wanted to share a different perspective with you.

 

[ownedsubgal]

this is very similiar to the attitude i clung to when fighting an eating disorder last summer. it was a relapse stemming back to when i was 15. they happen every now and then.

i would no sooner purposefully hurt myself then i would smash his car or fling paint on his wardrobe. i am his, and it is not my right to decide to destroy something he values.

it really helps to snap things back into proper perspective doesn't it?

 

[eastern sun]

well, i'm absolutely horrible at speaking to children, so i'll just speak to you woman to woman, slave to slave.

I wanted to be treated like a child last night. To be held. To have my hair stroked. To listen to a fairy tale in which those inner beasts are pacified by the shining and valiant knight.

But you're right, I'm not a child.

i want you to notice something you said there. you said that you fear he will unleash your inner beasts on yourself, in the pursuit of his own interests. my question to you is, what's wrong with that? what is wrong with him using his property to fulfill his own personal needs, desires, whims, whatever? that is part of why we are here after all. of course, that doesn't make it any less scary. so i understand the fear.

In my opinion, there's nothing wrong with it . . . except when my responsibility to my children is compromised.

You're right. It is scary when it's just between me and him, but I like that quality. The reason I'm struggling today is because I'm in conflict with him over the interests of my child.

I have been responsible for most aspects of my children's lives since they were born. He respects my opinions and most of my actions, and gives me tremendous freedom to prioritize their needs, even when it thwarts his interests.

At the moment, and it is only temporary, I have asked to refrain from certain activities that tend to trigger my more volatile emotions, because not only do I feel like I can't afford to lash out at my child, I also feel like I need to maintain a very steady, stable emotional presence as we work through the next few months.

My husband readily agrees, but it makes me feel like I should have refrained years ago. (That maybe we allowed my beasts too free a reign. That maybe I harmed and/or neglected my children - not physically, but emotionally.)

That's how I began questioning myself. and him.

I think, in the long run, we will find our way through this . . . into a new place (we have before) . . . but it's hard right now while we walk on eggshells.

(I also know that I've done much more right than I've done wrong. But at the moment, that knowledge is not helping.)

and as i said, for us the fear is a good and healthy thing. if i had no fear of Daddy, if i always felt completely safe and secure in his grasp, then i could not respect him as a Master. now i will throw in the unnecessary disclaimer here that of course all M/s dynamics work differently, but in our M/s, fear is absolutely necessary. real, deep down, very much un-fun fear. this fear prevents me from ever getting too big for my britches, which is something that can happen easily when there is love between Master and slave. this fear keeps me ever mindful and on my toes. this fear prevents me from ever viewing my Master as a peer or equal, even though he is the love of my life and we are best friends. this fear gives him an additional layer of power over me, beyond the layers of obligation/duty, love, commitment. this fear significantly increases my vulnerability, my helplessness, my dependence on him. that's important and necessary for us, that complete and utter dependence. that extreme vulnerability. that is what makes us our M/s work.

yours of course, may work differently...but just wanted to share a different perspective with you.

I've spoken to other slaves who say that their respect for their master is at least partly based on their fear of him. This is not so true for me.

When I am frightened by my husband's volatility or violence, I tend to retreat into myself and my own reserves of power. I will act to please him, but it does not increase my respect for him. I, in fact, become "more powerful" in the face of my fear of him.

And my capacity to get "too big for my britches" is unfortunately not limited by my fear of him. I am almost always "too big for my britches," in life as well as in my relationship. Fortunately, he knew this about me from the beginning. And mostly keeps me in line by pointing out how inane my grandiosity is, and how little he or anyone else really cares about my vitally important issues and insights.

Though we do come to these dynamics from different perspectives, I appreciate your thoughtful comments very much.

Your utter dependence, your vulnerability, and the fear and love you feel for your master strike a very deep chord.

 

[eastern sun]

It is just one of those things. Some people break things, wear them out. One of my best friends is like this. His cars, clothes, computer, house, etc are all in a constant state of slow destruction.

I often think my primary responsibility is to slow down the momentum of this natural force.

Eh, they're still the same animal. One is just contextualised to the point where you like. It goes back to the good-pain/bad-pain discussion commonly had with masochists. There is good fear, and there is bad fear, but both are still fear. I have often told masochists to use their existing pain-processing skills to handle bad pain. It's never met with enthusiasm, but it makes sense. Perhaps it is useful to look at the same fear-processing mechanisms and ability used to handle good fear, and apply it to bad fear.

Years and years ago, I took martial arts, specifically a grappling style. I was okay at it, but not great. One day, I got into the groove, relaxed, and was suddenly vastly better on the ground. Instead of struggling with my opponent's every move, I relaxed, and used whatever energy I was given to my advantage. A month or so later, I was driving home from MA class, and going across a very long bridge. It was hurricane season, and a solid storm had kicked up. I was driving a light 4x4, and it was raised a little, so it was really catching the crosswinds on the bridge. I was concerned before I hit the bridge, but once on it, I instinctively relaxed. Just like when I was on the mat. I used the energy I was given, and handled it smoothly, instead of trying to fight every gust.

While this anecdote may be looked at as "relax and use the energy you're given" it is more useful, in this case, to look at it differently. The core advice I'm offering is that you can take a skill learned from some obtuse place, and apply it somewhere totally unconventional, to sometimes great success. Fear is just another form of biochemical distress. Handle it as such. You've already got the capacity.

Since I read this, I've been trying to imagine that the fear I feel in sexual situations is, in fact, like the fear I feel in the school psychologist's office.

There was a real similarity between fear I've felt during play and the fear I felt when I realized I was about to get robbed. In fact, they were identical. I described that fear earlier in this thread - when I feel physically threatened, space opens up, time slows down, my senses become hyper-alert, and my mind becomes clear and focussed.

This other fear (of the school psychologist) is more like the fear I feel when jealousy strikes - when I feel emotionally threatened, space closes in, my body tightens up, my mind becomes jumbled and confused. and I close down to new information until I can reinterpret what I've already seen in light of changing circumstances.

I have worked through the jealousy fears. This kind of fear is already filled with a story of what's going to happen . . . whereas the physical fear understands already that the outcome is completely unknowable, and that's okay. It's time just to act.

If I could just be okay with not knowing the outcome . . .

(Maybe I've become too attached to the need for happy endings in the story of my son's life.)

"Relax and use the energy you're given" seems to be just about the best advice I could hear.

 

[Homburg]

(Maybe I've become too attached to the need for happy endings in the story of my son's life.)

Can he look outside and see the sunlight? Can he walk outside and play in it? Happy ending.

I've spent far too much of the past two weeks in hospital cardiac wards. The first part was watching my father in dire circumstances, the second seeing my girl lying in that bed. And the whole time keeping up correspondence with a very, very ill friend that is waiting on a heart transplant and nearly died last week.

If he can see the sunlight, and go out in it, he's got the makings for a happy ending.

"Relax and use the energy you're given" seems to be just about the best advice I could hear.

Well, I figured it would be a two-part piece of advice. I just wanted to emphasise the subtext of using lessons learned in inobvious places.

 

[eastern sun]

Can he look outside and see the sunlight? Can he walk outside and play in it? Happy ending.

I've spent far too much of the past two weeks in hospital cardiac wards. The first part was watching my father in dire circumstances, the second seeing my girl lying in that bed. And the whole time keeping up correspondence with a very, very ill friend that is waiting on a heart transplant and nearly died last week.

If he can see the sunlight, and go out in it, he's got the makings for a happy ending.

I am too attached.

It's wonderful that you were there for them, Homburg.

 

[eastern sun]

I felt the solution today.

When my child started feeling threatened at school, I started to distrust the school environment. And when I didn't feel like I was being heard by the school personnel. . . with tremendous fear and discomfort . . . I stopped submitting to the people in my world.

My submissive habits are not usually something I pay a lot of attention to. They're just the habits I've developed over time.

But here I was actually defying the school. Refusing to do some of the things they were asking of me, until I was better able to understand the situation. I challenged the staff. And my whole emotional focus was set in opposition to forces that were in front of me.

Today, moving through the world, I felt myself back in the much more comfortable attitude of submission. It's expressed in how I move, my gestures, eye contact, in who passes first and how I relate myself physically and emotionally to the people I come in contact with. And it wasn't until I was there again, that I fully realized how much I had moved away from it.

I am uncomfortable with that more defiant, oppositional attitude. It makes me hard and tense. Highly judgmental. And highly suspicious.

Thanks to Homburg's comments, I started thinking about sexually aroused fear and its open spacious quality. And it made me realize how much I've been closing myself off from and even blocking the influence of other people. Exactly the opposite of what I enjoy the most in the world.

It's important that I stay my son's best advocate. But I wonder today if I really have to abandon those submissive qualities in doing so. (I know the answer is "no.") Perhaps I did have to for the moment (like the moment of defiance I showed my husband early in this thread) in order to stay responsible to my children.

But it isn't my submissive nature that leads to the problems in the first place. And that was the conclusion I was considering.

 

[Adakgirl]

funny you said this today. Last night I was reading the last poast of this thread and I was going to respond tho these words of yours.

fear I feel in the school psychologist's office.

Because I found it almost laughable that YOU would feel fear (threatened) by a mere school psychologist. Because in my mind you probably have much more hands- on, reality- based knowledge when it comes to behavioral science, and much more experience in sociology, than any school psychologist in the NY school system. I believe you probably have better insight about people and life in genera too. You also posses a mothers intimate knowledge of the workings of her child's brain.

I was going to tell you that just because someone carries the title of School Child Psychologist that does not make them a better or smarter person than you are. (is this person a Child Psychologist or a School Psychologist?). So you should not put yourself below them in stature. Psychologists tend to have little real-life experience, they go from school and once finished go right into some area of their field of work.

Other words they are book learned, not from the school of hard knocks and many don't know jack shit. They only know what they have been taught is the proper procedure when encountering (what they determine to be)this that or this.

Has that particular psychologist ever treated a patient with the same condition your son has been diagnosed with before? I doubt it. Have those school officials ever dealt with a student like him before, if they did probably didn't even know it. I was going to suggest you not let them bully you or tell you what is best for your son. ONLY you will know whats best for him because you will be able to feel it.

 

[Adakgirl]

And I was going to respectfully disagree with Homberg about different kinds of fear. There are distinctively different kinds of fear. One is instinctual fight or flight fear that comes from deep within our Amygdgala. The Amygdgala sends your body survival signals overriding all other parts of the brain and it does that faster than you can think. It instantaneously sends the body signals that prepare it to run or fight.

Another kind of fear is the fear we make up in our minds. Fear of things that haven't happened yet...but we are afraid they might happen. Fear of things that have happened and we fear they will happen again. Fear of things that have little chance of ever happening to us at all.

 

[Homburg]

I felt the solution today.

Glad to hear it. Cheers!

--

And I was going to respectfully disagree with Homberg about different kinds of fear. There are distinctively different kinds of fear. One is instinctual fight or flight fear that comes from deep within our Amygdgala. The Amygdgala sends your body survival signals overriding all other parts of the brain and it does that faster than you can think. It instantaneously sends the body signals that prepare it to run or fight.

Another kind of fear is the fear we make up in our minds. Fear of things that haven't happened yet...but we are afraid they might happen. Fear of things that have happened and we fear they will happen again. Fear of things that have little chance of ever happening to us at all.

Granted, yes. In her case, both sorts of fear were above the lizard brain fight-or-flight level. This is why I was suggesting the mechanisms I suggested. I did not mean to imply that those were the only sorts of fear out there.

There is precious little that can be done to moderate the lizard brain.

 

[Adakgirl]

Well... you know how literal I can be at times. lol

 

[eastern sun]

funny you said this today. Last night I was reading the last poast of this thread and I was going to respond tho these words of yours.

Because I found it almost laughable that YOU would feel fear (threatened) by a mere school psychologist. Because in my mind you probably have much more hands- on, reality- based knowledge when it comes to behavioral science, and much more experience in sociology, than any school psychologist in the NY school system. I believe you probably have better insight about people and life in genera too. You also posses a mothers intimate knowledge of the workings of her child's brain.

I was going to tell you that just because someone carries the title of School Child Psychologist that does not make them a better or smarter person than you are. (is this person a Child Psychologist or a School Psychologist?). So you should not put yourself below them in stature. Psychologists tend to have little real-life experience, they go from school and once finished go right into some area of their field of work.

Other words they are book learned, not from the school of hard knocks and many don't know jack shit. They only know what they have been taught is the proper procedure when encountering (what they determine to be)this that or this.

Has that particular psychologist ever treated a patient with the same condition your son has been diagnosed with before? I doubt it. Have those school officials ever dealt with a student like him before, if they did probably didn't even know it. I was going to suggest you not let them bully you or tell you what is best for your son. ONLY you will know whats best for him because you will be able to feel it.

Thank you, adakgirl, but I'm not that smart. And he's not that dumb. He wants to put my son on medication, and I'm biased against it. I don't want to medicate a child just to cope with a school environment that may not be appropriate for him.

On the other hand, the school is making me look hard and long at a number of undeniable characteristics of my son that I have not wanted to accept even though I know they're there.

He's both right and wrong. I'm both right and wrong. We just have to dance ourselves through this to an outcome that deep down serves my son.

And the fear I feel there is the story-based kind, like the fear we make up in our minds in your second post. I'm sitting in the office and I'm telling myself what's going to happen if we walk down this path, or that one, and I get so lost in imagining the future and reinterpreting the past that I lose touch with what's really going on. I feel confused. And I don't actually know what's going on. I don't know what's real and what's imagined.

Actually likening that confused, story-based fear to the amygdala-based fight or flight (because that "cut and run" element is definitely present) led me to an interesting perspective. If I stop trying to predict the future, and just allow myself to open up to what's going on (even though I don't like it, and fear a negative outcome) - the way I open up to certain sexual situations I've feared - I can glimpse for a moment the fact that none of us know what the answer is. We're all on the same team. I still have a responsibility to my son. But I will learn more truth if I listen to other people, than if I just sit and think it through all by myself.

 

[eastern sun]

Granted, yes. In her case, both sorts of fear were above the lizard brain fight-or-flight level. This is why I was suggesting the mechanisms I suggested. I did not mean to imply that those were the only sorts of fear out there.

There is precious little that can be done to moderate the lizard brain.

For the sake of simplicity, I've narrowed it down to two kinds of fear.

Physical - "fight or flight/lizard brain response" fear and Emotional - "story-based" fear, the kind you have to project into the future or pull out of the past in order to feel.

And I would imagine most fears we feel contain a blend of the two.

Are there others?

 

[nh23]

Thank you, adakgirl, but I'm not that smart. And he's not that dumb. He wants to put my son on medication, and I'm biased against it. I don't want to medicate a child just to cope with a school environment that may not be appropriate for him.

I can relate to this. My daughter was diagnosed with ADHD at four. The first thing they wanted to do was medicate her. I was adamant they weren't going to. She was four. I don't want my four year old on stimulants/narcotics.

In turn what I did was spend three years trying every alternative I could. We changed to an organic diet, I changed over to all chemical free products in our home. We tried interventions in school and then eventually went to special needs classes.

After all that at the present I have relented and put her on meds. I got to the point where no matter what we did she was still having the same problems. I felt that I was being selfish and holding her back because I didn't want to medicate her.

I have kept control though. The wanted me to put her in counseling again and I refused. She doesn't have a psych issue, and she didn't like counseling. So I found a pediatric doc that will treat her without counseling.

I also made them start her out at a very low dose. A dose used for children younger than her. I wanted to make sure she was going to tolerate it. At present she's on Adderall 10mg, which is still a low dose for her age, but so far working ok.

I also don't allow anyone to make me feel like I don't at least have some idea of what's best for my child. She's mine, I know her. It doesn't hurt that I"m a pediatric nurse either, and when someone tries to give me bullshit stats or whatnot I let them know that. I've had a lot of incidences where people just treat me like I'm flat out stupid. I tired of that very quickly.

 

[eastern sun]

I can relate to this. My daughter was diagnosed with ADHD at four. The first thing they wanted to do was medicate her. I was adamant they weren't going to. She was four. I don't want my four year old on stimulants/narcotics.

In turn what I did was spend three years trying every alternative I could. We changed to an organic diet, I changed over to all chemical free products in our home. We tried interventions in school and then eventually went to special needs classes.

After all that at the present I have relented and put her on meds. I got to the point where no matter what we did she was still having the same problems. I felt that I was being selfish and holding her back because I didn't want to medicate her.

I have kept control though. The wanted me to put her in counseling again and I refused. She doesn't have a psych issue, and she didn't like counseling. So I found a pediatric doc that will treat her without counseling.

I also made them start her out at a very low dose. A dose used for children younger than her. I wanted to make sure she was going to tolerate it. At present she's on Adderall 10mg, which is still a low dose for her age, but so far working ok.

I also don't allow anyone to make me feel like I don't at least have some idea of what's best for my child. She's mine, I know her. It doesn't hurt that I"m a pediatric nurse either, and when someone tries to give me bullshit stats or whatnot I let them know that. I've had a lot of incidences where people just treat me like I'm flat out stupid. I tired of that very quickly.

Is it working for her? And, if so, how long before you could tell it was working? Have you experienced side effects that were troublesome?

 

[kiss_of_sin]

I was diagnosed with ADHD at a young age, and my parents listened to all the doctor's bullsh*t. They put me on Ridlin for three years, and then eventually I just stopped taking it. They also changed my diet. While it worked, I now cannot be in certain jobs in the military for there have been incidents involving persons with history of ADHD and meds.

That's very cool you are a pediatric nurse, and very awesome you are standing up for your daughter. You are correct, she is YOUR daughter, of all people on this world, you would know her best. It's good to see parents sticking up for their children.

 

[nh23]

Is it working for her? And, if so, how long before you could tell it was working? Have you experienced side effects that were troublesome?

So far we are seeing some progress. We were about a month and a half in before we saw anything, but like I said we stated on very low doses. Her teachers have told me that her focus is getting a lot better, and that is the reason we started meds. I can deal with the hyperactivity. I don't want to drug my child to make life easier for me, I just don't want her to continue to fall behind.

She has also been diagnosed with an unspecified learning disability in language arts. Reading, writing, spelling. Spelling is horrific for her. We have seen minimal improvement with spelling. The writing and reading however we've seen some progress.

The first month we she had some pretty heartbreaking side effects. I almost called it all off. Stimulants can cause a side effect called emotional liability, which is basically laughing or crying spells with no apparent cause. They can last for hours. In her case it was the crying spells. She would just so overemotional and cry until she vomited. The doc assured me that this would go away after the first few weeks, and it did. That was a very rough patch.

As of right now she's doing well as far as side effects go. The Adderall does cause some trouble with her sleeping, but we are using magnesium tablets instead of another prescription drug and it's working well.

 

[nh23]

I was diagnosed with ADHD at a young age, and my parents listened to all the doctor's bullsh*t. They put me on Ridlin for three years, and then eventually I just stopped taking it. They also changed my diet. While it worked, I now cannot be in certain jobs in the military for there have been incidents involving persons with history of ADHD and meds.

That's very cool you are a pediatric nurse, and very awesome you are standing up for your daughter. You are correct, she is YOUR daughter, of all people on this world, you would know her best. It's good to see parents sticking up for their children.

Thank You! It was pretty hard on me until I started standing up for her. They were making me feel guilty for keeping her off meds, making me feel like a horrible parent. The breaking point was when one of her teachers who takes meds for adult ADD told me that if I didn't medicate her she would eventually commit suicide. She didn't say an increased risk yada yada, so said SHE WILL. I was so fucking pissed, I just blew up right there.

I decided from that minute on I wasn't going to let them make me feel like a shit parent. Sometimes people will give you bullshit statistics to push you in the way they want things to be. I learned to research every little detail myself.

 

[DamianCain]

It's Father's Day and I just want to mention that my wife is a great fuck.

 

[DamianCain]

Oh...and a great wife too.

 

[DamianCain]

Ah. And a great mother too...

 

[eastern sun]

For You on Father's Day

For you on Father’s Day
(when every day is Father’s Day)

My father ran into the woods to keep his wild side
But you have stayed to learn the art of husbandry

Feeling the pinch of domesticity, you have stayed
While your fruit slowly ripens
Deeply educating yourself on the care of life
Earning our trust
Calming our fears
Challenging our inertia
And still stoking the wildfires within your soul
Allowing the flames to burn off
The tangled underbrush that accumulates
As living things strive to find the sun
And threaten to choke off the shoots
At the base of the family tree

You have learned to use your whip judiciously
To tame the rebellious wild streak
That threatens the creatures in your care
Channeling our living energy
Exercising our natural talents
Releasing our ability
To get the work of the human world done
The domesticated, civilized, social world
Where we are born naked
And live bathed in the images
Of man’s greatest accomplishments
And deepest failures

Against this black and white backdrop
You, the Father, encourage us to live and work
Rewarding us with sweet meats, salt licks,
And wild rides into the dark, uncharted woods
While keeping the path home clear
Comforting and familiar

- June 2006

I love you.

 

[Adakgirl]

You have been gifted with such a rich talent Eastern Sun...I wish you had time enough to steal to work on authoring and publishing a small book of your poetry at least. You probably have a good sized best seller drifting around in your journals, papers and scraps already. Give them to someone and let them put it together for you if you have too.
All I am saying is I think this is an important calling for you, a thing you must do for others as well as yourself. Also I would like to have the opportunity to purchase such a book before I am too old, decrepit, senile and too blind to read it!

 

[HisSexyPet]

I too have loved reading everything you have written EasternSun.

You and everyone in this thread have brought me and my master in to greater understanding of each other. Y'all have helped us rekindle our relationship and redefine it at the same time. I admit to the world that I am BlitzKrieger's slut, his pet, his slave and in doing so feel such freedom in my bondage.

 

[eastern sun]

Thank you.

Thank you for your kind words, and your support and encouragement. Thank you for reading the thread. After spending most of my youth with profound and painful "writer's block," it has been extremely rewarding to open this channel of expression.

My husband started encouraging me to write about my experience a few years ago. He thought there was a book in it somewhere. But I'm afraid to "come out" as a slave within my own community, especially with my kids around. I find comfort in this anonymous forum, and am so grateful for the opportunity to speak freely here.