Homosexuality, Bisexuality, and labels

[Liar]

When a man is "bisexual" he tends to be viewed as a slut who doesn't care what hole he sticks it in.

I resent that.

They have to be comfy holes. Pencil sharpeners are so out.

 

[lesbiaphrodite]

I know this is a bit off topic, but does that mean that you would mind more if your lover cheated on you with a guy instead of another woman?
I noticed a similar (except the other way around) attitude in many of my friends in that they'd mind their gf cheating on them with another guy a lot more than if they cheated on them with a woman. I never understood that attitued myself.

On Topic: I don't care too much about labels. People should label themselves whatever they think fits them best.

To answer your question, no, I didn't wish to imply that I would be either more or less upset if my lover chose to cheat on me with a guy. I'd be equally upset if she cheated with another woman. I simply meant that I preferred knowing the truth about any lover's instincts up-front. (i.e. If my gf likes spaghetti bolognese more than pizza with pesto sauce, I would like to know so that I know what to cook for her. To the same end, I'd like to know if she prefers women all the time or if she likes the occasional man thrown in the mix for good measure.)

 

[Madmax77_1977]

To answer your question, no, I didn't wish to imply that I would be either more or less upset if my lover chose to cheat on me with a guy. I'd be equally upset if she cheated with another woman. I simply meant that I preferred knowing the truth about any lover's instincts up-front. (i.e. If my gf likes spaghetti bolognese more than pizza with pesto sauce, I would like to know so that I know what to cook for her. To the same end, I'd like to know if she prefers women all the time or if she likes the occasional man thrown in the mix for good measure.)

ah, I get it now, makes sense. sorry about my misunderstanding

 

[sweetness6280]

I have had discussions with bisexual women who have been victimized (my word) by the whole "what if she finds a man" attitude. I would go as far as calling some of the things that I have been exposed to through their eyes traumatic and most definitely discriminatory.

I mean seriously, what a question! Yeah, and? What if she finds a different woman? How is that different?

Oddly enough, I think there is a parallel with straight men. I've known many guys who had no fear (or at least no increased fear) of their girl finding another male partner but who were more than a little freaked at the idea of their woman finding a female partner.

Honestly, the only thing I can attribute it to is a fear of not being able to compete with the opposite gender. Different approaches, different physical tools, blah, blah, blah.

First: If you are thinking about "losing someone", you are thinking of them as property and that is a large part of your problem.

Second: You aren't going to lose them long term to "equipment" issues. It will be about the person, and gender is actually irrelevant.

Well said.

There was something I said to Tatelou so many years ago. Basically it went something like this:

"You aren't heterosexual, bisexual or homosexual. You are sexual...and sexy. And I like you that way."

I love this!

To answer your question, no, I didn't wish to imply that I would be either more or less upset if my lover chose to cheat on me with a guy. I'd be equally upset if she cheated with another woman. I simply meant that I preferred knowing the truth about any lover's instincts up-front. (i.e. If my gf likes spaghetti bolognese more than pizza with pesto sauce, I would like to know so that I know what to cook for her. To the same end, I'd like to know if she prefers women all the time or if she likes the occasional man thrown in the mix for good measure.)

As usual, it comes down to honest communication.

I avoid labels. The only ones that seem to fit me are 'heteroflexible' and 'kinkster'. When asked to label myself within the 'community', I just say "I'm Popeye. I yam what I yam." IMHO, labels are just a lazy way to filter potential partners. If someone really wants to know me, he/she will take the time to get past the labels and find out who I am.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

 

[THROBBS]

We need and use labels all the time.
It is how we make sense of the world...

BUT.... with each and every label comes the rest of it... Care instructions, Specific ingredients, potential hazards...

I suggest reading the entire label and even add some notes of your own, as soon as you can... we will probably find that label is two sided and even OPENS...maybe it is more of an organic-manual!

BUT, just as in the grocery store or library... we use those labels to begin identifying...

I am HAPPY to label myself.

 

[Dragonlipz]

Not to jack this thread or try to trivialize the subject (I know, quite the change in me) but isn't it all about a person to person connection?
I've met a few men whom I've felt a sensual connection (very few, to be sure) but very few women that I haven't felt an attraction......(meter maids, bureaucrats, and politicians notwithstanding) so I'm asking: Doesn't it all boil down to whether I like/enjoy/crave this person and their smile/touch/gaze more than any other at this moment in time?
Maybe I'll figure it out someday, thanx...............

 

[Stella_Omega]

You don't like meter maids?

Lovely Rita will be so sorry to hear that.

But seriously, Lipz, if you're bisexual, you are bisexual-- you don't really have a choice about that, any more than a completely gay or straight person does.

 

[Belegon]

I've always thought the whole sliding scale thing was easier to comprehend than this three way absolute label fest.

But I absolutely know that I have met people who didn't want to be gay, but were. They fought it but were never really happy until they accepted it. With great difficulty.

No one will ever be able to convince me that sexual orientation is a choice. I've seen it cause too much pain.

As for myself....

Who I fall in love with is who I fall in love with. Gender is only one factor among many. Just because I have never been in romantic love with a man does not mean I never will be.

As long as he realizes that no force of man or nature is pulling me away from Imp, we'll make it work.

 

[Dragonlipz]

You don't like meter maids?

Lovely Rita will be so sorry to hear that.

But seriously, Lipz, if you're bisexual, you are bisexual-- you don't really have a choice about that, any more than a completely gay or straight person does.

I understand and accept that but I don't think that I'm any more bi or straight than anyone else....certainly more than some and less than others....I just haven't met anyone who excited me more than women.....
BTW, I was entranced by a young, ripe woman this afternoon......WHEW! Fine, round legs and high firm breasts......wonderful smile........green eyes....

 

[fieryjen]

I spent some time agonizing about which way to "label" myself and I still haven't come to a conclusion that seems satisfying.

I also think that the Kinsey scale is a better representation of sexual preference than the "straight-bi-gay" categories. I think I'm somewhere around a 2 on the scale - I like both men and women but I prefer men. For a long time I thought I was straight, even though I had probably as many crushes on girls than I had on guys. When I was about thirteen or fourteen I read somewhere that "it's normal for a girl to have those feelings for another girl during the teen years", so I wrote it off as normal teenage confusion. Some time after I met my husband, and after I finally got comfortable with my own sexuality, I finally began to embrace my feelings for other girls instead of just trying to ignore them.

One thing I've been wondering about is why some people insist on correcting me when I say that I am bisexual. The main objection is that I am bi-curious because I have never been in a relationship with another girl. I disagree with that, because I know what I feel isn't curiosity. I'm not a huge fan of the bisexual label, but I'm not exactly straight and I'm not a lesbian either. "Kinsey 2" is what I like best, but that's difficult to explain to those who aren't familiar with the scale model.

I'm comfortable with who I am and I'm quite certain about my preferences - the only trouble I have is how to express them to people, meaning which label to use. That part still troubles me and I'm tempted to follow suit and dispense with the labels altogether like some of those who have posted before me have done.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

I spent some time agonizing about which way to "label" myself and I still haven't come to a conclusion that seems satisfying.

I also think that the Kinsey scale is a better representation of sexual preference than the "straight-bi-gay" categories. I think I'm somewhere around a 2 on the scale - I like both men and women but I prefer men. For a long time I thought I was straight, even though I had probably as many crushes on girls than I had on guys. When I was about thirteen or fourteen I read somewhere that "it's normal for a girl to have those feelings for another girl during the teen years", so I wrote it off as normal teenage confusion. Some time after I met my husband, and after I finally got comfortable with my own sexuality, I finally began to embrace my feelings for other girls instead of just trying to ignore them.

One thing I've been wondering about is why some people insist on correcting me when I say that I am bisexual. The main objection is that I am bi-curious because I have never been in a relationship with another girl. I disagree with that, because I know what I feel isn't curiosity. I'm not a huge fan of the bisexual label, but I'm not exactly straight and I'm not a lesbian either. "Kinsey 2" is what I like best, but that's difficult to explain to those who aren't familiar with the scale model.

I'm comfortable with who I am and I'm quite certain about my preferences - the only trouble I have is how to express them to people, meaning which label to use. That part still troubles me and I'm tempted to follow suit and dispense with the labels altogether like some of those who have posted before me have done.

I suspect that I am a Kinsey 1, or at least have been in the past. I haven't seen a man that attracted me in some 40 years, now but 'way back then there were a couple. So I suspect that our best approach is simply to insist on using the scale and whenever you get a blank, stupid look in return, belabor the dumbshit over the head with it until they begin to understand. I like the direct approach!

 

[Safe_Bet]

I about got my tits chewed off, regarding this topic, in my Isle of Lesbos thread a couple of weeks ago cuz I honestly don't get "Bi"... It just covers too much ground. The Kinsey Scale is a lot better but even it isn't truly representative of all of the permutations of Bi, IMO.

I guess that as a "born" 6+'er I don't understand a lot of the attractions or the thinking of a large part of this segment of the LGBT community (even with Stella swatting the back of my head from time to time trying to help me "get it"). I just don't see the attraction and I imagine a str8 guy would have the same problems.

I can understand the bi-curious part okay, but the true "3 - 5"s I just can't comprehend. I mean does a "4" quasi-lesbian only crave cock 10% of the time or is it that only one out of every ten guys turns them on? (and yeah, I know I'm generalizing, but I can't think of a better way to phrase it)


To FireyJen (my dear "2"): Hi there. How YOU do'in? *my best Joey voice*

 

[Lynabo]

In all walks of life there is no black or white only shades of grey.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

We live in an age when people are self-absorbed and narcissistic to the point of enduring psychotic delusions. We've also politicized our appetites.

We no longer live in a society where sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you dont; we now demand that everyone join a team and wear the team colors.

The Ninjas (NO INCOME NO JOB AMERICANS) started the trend, got a guvmint check for their situation, and stampeded the women, retards, psychos, perfessers, Spics, and perverts to do the same.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

I about got my tits chewed off, regarding this topic, in my Isle of Lesbos thread a couple of weeks ago cuz I honestly don't get "Bi"... It just covers too much ground. The Kinsey Scale is a lot better but even it isn't truly representative of all of the permutations of Bi, IMO.

I guess that as a "born" 6+'er I don't understand a lot of the attractions or the thinking of a large part of this segment of the LGBT community (even with Stella swatting the back of my head from time to time trying to help me "get it"). I just don't see the attraction and I imagine a str8 guy would have the same problems.

I can understand the bi-curious part okay, but the true "3 - 5"s I just can't comprehend. I mean does a "4" quasi-lesbian only crave cock 10% of the time or is it that only one out of every ten guys turns them on? (and yeah, I know I'm generalizing, but I can't think of a better way to phrase it)


To FireyJen (my dear "2"): Hi there. How YOU do'in? *my best Joey voice*

From my '1' position, that's actually a good call, except that since most het folk can find a reasonably suitable partner about one person out of ten in the general population, a '4' will perhaps find one in ten of the one in ten or about 1% of guys might appeal to your quasi-lesbian example. In the same vein, as a '1', having met two other males that appealed to me in my life, it must therefore follow that about 1 in 10,000 males appeal to me, no? Now to try and get me to figure out what it was about them that was appealing is futile. Hell, it was over 40 years ago and my memory ain't what it was. So perhaps Kinsey was describing a flexible sexuality wherein the individual under discussion is just increasingly selective in her/his taste in sexual partners as each end of the scale is approached.

That's some pretty convoluted language but the ideas are perfectly clear to me!

 

[Safe_Bet]

From my '1' position, that's actually a good call, except that since most het folk can find a reasonably suitable partner about one person out of ten in the general population, a '4' will perhaps find one in ten of the one in ten or about 1% of guys might appeal to your quasi-lesbian example. In the same vein, as a '1', having met two other males that appealed to me in my life, it must therefore follow that about 1 in 10,000 males appeal to me, no? Now to try and get me to figure out what it was about them that was appealing is futile. Hell, it was over 40 years ago and my memory ain't what it was. So perhaps Kinsey was describing a flexible sexuality wherein the individual under discussion is just increasingly selective in her/his taste in sexual partners as each end of the scale is approached.

That's some pretty convoluted language but the ideas are perfectly clear to me!

I'm scaring the shit out of myself, but that made perfect sense!

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Really? You have no idea how relieved I am to read that! Sometimes the way I think things out confuses even me.

 

[Huckleman2000]

I about got my tits chewed off, regarding this topic, in my Isle of Lesbos thread a couple of weeks ago cuz I honestly don't get "Bi"... It just covers too much ground. The Kinsey Scale is a lot better but even it isn't truly representative of all of the permutations of Bi, IMO.

I guess that as a "born" 6+'er I don't understand a lot of the attractions or the thinking of a large part of this segment of the LGBT community (even with Stella swatting the back of my head from time to time trying to help me "get it"). I just don't see the attraction and I imagine a str8 guy would have the same problems.

I can understand the bi-curious part okay, but the true "3 - 5"s I just can't comprehend. I mean does a "4" quasi-lesbian only crave cock 10% of the time or is it that only one out of every ten guys turns them on? (and yeah, I know I'm generalizing, but I can't think of a better way to phrase it)

I asked one of my bi-girl friends (who has a twin brother who is also bi) if the same sorts of women attract her as men, and she said that with women, the attraction comes after feelings develop, but with men there is attraction first, and feelings develop afterward, if at all. She'll go out and pick a guy up for a one-nighter, but she doesn't do that with women. She's only had one real "girlfriend"; I'd guess she's about a Kinsey 2 or 3? Anyway, I can sort of understand it the way she explained it. She does have female fantasies, and says that she has pretty much always known she was bisexual, though. When she found out her brother was bi also, she wasn't surprised.

 

[Stella_Omega]

For me, the sexual attraction comes first, mostly because it shows up before I've even shaken someone's hand....

Or else it doesn't. In my younger days, no attraction at first look meant no attraction ever, but as I've gotten older that's not so true anymore, AAND, the first-glance-must-have reflex is less frequent. I don't think I've gotten more picky, either, honest-- I think that the sexyness indicators I learned are less prevalent. damn those adorable hippies of my teenage years!

Anyway, safe_Bet, my experience is that, at different times, I've been more attracted to one sex than the other, and the balance changes. I go through phases.

And for me, feelings don't develop until later. But there's a reason they call it "making love!"

 

[voluptuary_manque]

For me, the sexual attraction comes first, mostly because it shows up before I've even shaken someone's hand....

Or else it doesn't. In my younger days, no attraction at first look meant no attraction ever, but as I've gotten older that's not so true anymore, AAND, the first-glance-must-have reflex is less frequent. I don't think I've gotten more picky, either, honest-- I think that the sexyness indicators I learned are less prevalent. damn those adorable hippies of my teenage years!

Anyway, safe_Bet, my experience is that, at different times, I've been more attracted to one sex than the other, and the balance changes. I go through phases.

And for me, feelings don't develop until later. But there's a reason they call it "making love!"

Now I'm exactly the opposite. I can find someone seriously hot without having any particular interest in bedding them down. Having developed a "gosh, a real person" relationship, I'm far more inclined to start daydreaming. Possibly its due to high vasopressin levels or something . . .

 

[gloriann]

I agree with Throbby that labels are helpful, but not always accurate. So, perhaps, we can start with a label and then actually get to know the person to see what he or she actually emcompasses.

That, of course, would be in a perfect world. In our world, if you're a lesbian and you fuck a guy or two, it's not out of the realm to expect another lesbian to take offense at the use of the label. Just life...

 

[Isid]

Labels are at once useful and harmful. Labels can help me understand a person better but at the same time block that person from being who they really are.

I am a lesbian and yet I have a child. Does that make me bi or something else in the minds of others? I am not bi but have many male friends. Most of my closest friends are straight (not surprising since most of the people you meet label themselves "straight" whether you know they are otherwise or not) and these closest friends know the struggle I went through to come out - which was not easy during my youth and early adulthood.

Not sure I answered the questions being asked - but well, these are my thoughts

 

[THROBBS]

I agree with Throbby that labels are helpful, but not always accurate. So, perhaps, we can start with a label and then actually get to know the person to see what he or she actually emcompasses.

That, of course, would be in a perfect world. In our world, if you're a lesbian and you fuck a guy or two, it's not out of the realm to expect another lesbian to take offense at the use of the label. Just life...

You read my post? You are AGREED with it too?
What sort of Funny, Short Lesbian ARE YOU?
(use as many pages as you wish for your label)

 

[gloriann]

Short, funny, lesbian, teacher, learner, sister, daughter, granddaughter, niece, cousin, girlfriend, partner, lover, friend, reader, writer, golfer, lazyass, workaholic, drinker, ex-smoker, college graduate, grad school graduate, nerd, ex-paralegal, ex-girlfriend, swimmer, white girl, Italian, emotional, open-minded, close-minded, gamer, player, artist, Californian...

All depends on who you ask...