Self-flagellation - Dominant Pasttime?

[Netzach]

This came up in another thread and I wanted to do a quickie spinoff thread.

Do you tend to blame yourself for things gone awry, do it for longer periods of time than you probably should, and are you D, s, both, other?


I know I do this. H does it too, so I think it's a cultural guilt thing in part, but I've also heard so many s types saying "he just blames himself and there's nothing I can do to stop it, he's so hard on himself" etc.

 

[00Syd]

I think he blames himself overmuch, but I know that I do it too, even more so than he does. And saying that he blames himself too much is just sort of a subtle way of putting myself down and saying its all my fault, anyway.

 

[Netzach]

I think he blames himself overmuch, but I know that I do it too, even more so than he does. And saying that he blames himself too much is just sort of a subtle way of putting myself down and saying its all my fault, anyway.

Astute point, maybe there's a lot of that going around in that observation. Hmmm.

I still think that every time I find out I don't control the universe it comes as a shock. You'd think I'd remember.

 

[CutieMouse]

Terribly, horribly, very very very guilty of this [being to hard on myself].

Currently giving up and identifying as "other" as a more detailed definition is just too freaking complicated.

 

[mscherrypoppins]

I definitely do. In my mind, I have a set way I am supposed to be. A set way I'm supposed to act. A set way I'm supposed to control. When something goes wrong, if it doesn't turn out the way I see it in my mind, I blame myself because I'm supposed to be in charge. I should know the likes/dislikes, limits/boundaries of my pyl. On top of that, I even start to feel bad when he feels bad, blames himself, feels not completely worthy, or puts it on himself as a flaw or shortcoming.

 

[ultramarineblue]

I definitely have the mindset that I should be perfect but everyone else can make mistakes. My perfect isn't even always good enough. My less than perfect is nowhere near good enough. When I really think about it, it's a bit arrogant to think that I can be perfect yet I know that it doesn't stem from arrogance but the opposite.

 

[ZRT]

I take responsibility for a lot of things that I probably shouldn't, but I won't say that I overdo the self-flagellation. Maybe when I was a bit younger I did, but these days I've taken far more to a 'there's a problem, let's fix the problem' mindset. Decisive action does far more good than maundering and pondering.

Eta: And yeah, I'm a perfectionist. I set my standards too high, but in my view that just keeps me sharp and hungry.

 

[BiBunny]

Master, Mistress, and I are all hard on ourselves. We've all got big perfectionist streaks, and none of us are ever completely satisfied with anything we do.

 

[Netzach]

Ok, maybe I need to amend this to pervert equals perfectionists.

What the hell's with us?

Are there any real type B chill people into this?

I'm beginning to wonder heh.

 

[Netzach]

I take responsibility for a lot of things that I probably shouldn't, but I won't say that I overdo the self-flagellation. Maybe when I was a bit younger I did, but these days I've taken far more to a 'there's a problem, let's fix the problem' mindset. Decisive action does far more good than maundering and pondering.

Eta: And yeah, I'm a perfectionist. I set my standards too high, but in my view that just keeps me sharp and hungry.

I'm not liable to sit around beating myself up, I'm totally the solutions maven. A very active do-everything kind of reaction.

But when none of them work, I kind of kill myself over it.

 

[Homburg]

This came up in another thread and I wanted to do a quickie spinoff thread.

Do you tend to blame yourself for things gone awry?

Yes. I'm the dominant. It's my job to make sure things go down properly.

I'm not liable to sit around beating myself up, I'm totally the solutions maven. A very active do-everything kind of reaction.

But when none of them work, I kind of kill myself over it.

This. Enormously.

 

[Netzach]

Yes. I'm the dominant. It's my job to make sure things go down properly.




This. Enormously.

You must be ready to chew through a wall with the surgery.

It's weird, but I am really really glad that I was the sicker of us, I think I'd have imploded with lack of control if it were M. Props.

 

[Homburg]

You must be ready to chew through a wall with the surgery.

It's weird, but I am really really glad that I was the sicker of us, I think I'd have imploded with lack of control if it were M. Props.

Yeah, just a bit. Nothing wrecks me more than someone I love being in trouble and not being able to fix it.

I HATE being helpless in the face of a loved one's peril. I can't load more vitriol into that text to show how much I DESPISE it.

Thank you for getting that.

 

[midwestyankee]

Recently I began exploring how I handle problems and have found (not terribly surprisingly) that my tendency is to think that all relational problems begin with me. Thirty years of this behavior has taken the life out of my life. The road back will be long and steep. I fully expect that separation and a divorce are likely stops along the way.

If you can adjust your thinking about your own responsibility for relational problems (short-term or long-term), please do so. I wouldn't wish this hell on anyone.

 

[intothewoods]

I'm sorry, yanks.

 

[DarkAmaranth]

Guilty as charged lol
I still tend to be very hard on myself because I set my personal goals very high - I know what I am capable of so I try to reach that point. Admittedly I'm not as bad as I once was, but I struggle with disappointing myself, especially if I think I've let my Sir down in some way (even if he doesn't see it as such - I know, I'm strange lol).

 

[midwestyankee]

I'm sorry, yanks.

Thanks. We all build our own lives, and mine just happens to need a helluva rehab job. I wonder if "This Old Life" would ever make it as a DIY television series.

 

[Netzach]

Recently I began exploring how I handle problems and have found (not terribly surprisingly) that my tendency is to think that all relational problems begin with me. Thirty years of this behavior has taken the life out of my life. The road back will be long and steep. I fully expect that separation and a divorce are likely stops along the way.

If you can adjust your thinking about your own responsibility for relational problems (short-term or long-term), please do so. I wouldn't wish this hell on anyone.

H went through this process. I'm uncertain that I was even a catalyst, though I blamed myself for a good long time as is my wont. The more I talked to him about things, the more I realized that he was not a bad guy. She's not a bad person, but very much the wrong person and created situations that anyone not primarily steeped in guilt would never put up with.

My tendency is to blame myself with M, but I've also come to accept that I tolerate and accept as good as I dish out shit, that there are levels of crazy there that *are* taxing and ugly. I have them too, but it's not all me.

I think we're way too eager to need to find a bad guy as a culture and we'll make ourselves one if that'll do.

 

[midwestyankee]

I think we're way too eager to need to find a bad guy as a culture and we'll make ourselves one if that'll do.

This rings true to me. We are definitely an A causes B kind of society, where there is one A and one B. Rarely do we think in terms of organizations or families as systems where each member contributes to the overall function of the whole. I suspect that most of us would be better off if we could see things in a more holistic manner.

Back to the original point, though: the dynamic between any pair of dominant and submissive partners is a unique creation that changes over time. If a scene doesn't live up to expectations, it's not just because the dominant didn't quite get the scene right nor is it just because the submissive reacted in an unexpected way. The scene just is. We set up right and wrong with our expectations. If, instead, our expectations were driven by a curiosity (I wonder what would happen if...) rather than a desire (when I ___ her she'll surely ___ as a result), then I think that all scenes would be successful.

 

[intothewoods]

H went through this process. I'm uncertain that I was even a catalyst, though I blamed myself for a good long time as is my wont. The more I talked to him about things, the more I realized that he was not a bad guy. She's not a bad person, but very much the wrong person and created situations that anyone not primarily steeped in guilt would never put up with.

My tendency is to blame myself with M, but I've also come to accept that I tolerate and accept as good as I dish out shit, that there are levels of crazy there that *are* taxing and ugly. I have them too, but it's not all me.

I think we're way too eager to need to find a bad guy as a culture and we'll make ourselves one if that'll do.

I find this to be so true. Someone has to be the villain. And people are comforted by an easy explanation often, especially from the outside. She cheated. She's terrible, etc. And then sometimes it's easier to take it all on oneself. The truth is usually messier and more complicated.

To answer your original question, my impulse in day to day things is to be defensive at first and then think it's all my fault. I'm learning to put the impulse in a corner.

 

[Netzach]

Back to the original point, though: the dynamic between any pair of dominant and submissive partners is a unique creation that changes over time. If a scene doesn't live up to expectations, it's not just because the dominant didn't quite get the scene right nor is it just because the submissive reacted in an unexpected way. The scene just is. We set up right and wrong with our expectations. If, instead, our expectations were driven by a curiosity (I wonder what would happen if...) rather than a desire (when I ___ her she'll surely ___ as a result), then I think that all scenes would be successful.

I could not agree more.

However reconciling that kind of exploratory impulse with badass authoritarian dynamics is really - well is it even possible?

I think that's another kind of measure of compatibility - how important is the journey versus the destination?

 

[midwestyankee]

I could not agree more.

However reconciling that kind of exploratory impulse with badass authoritarian dynamics is really - well is it even possible?

I think that's another kind of measure of compatibility - how important is the journey versus the destination?

Good point. I'm more of an explorer than a badass authority, but I want mostly to be the guy who reads the map, keeps the flashlight, and decides the route through the jungle. Still, it's a partnered journey and each contributes to the quality of the trip (where "quality" means simply its nature).

 

[Homburg]

Recently I began exploring how I handle problems and have found (not terribly surprisingly) that my tendency is to think that all relational problems begin with me. Thirty years of this behavior has taken the life out of my life. The road back will be long and steep. I fully expect that separation and a divorce are likely stops along the way.

If you can adjust your thinking about your own responsibility for relational problems (short-term or long-term), please do so. I wouldn't wish this hell on anyone.

I am going to drawn a fine distinction here to explain my thoughts on this.

It may or may not be my fault, but it is always my responsibility.

This is how I see it. As the dominant, I may be able to look at a situation and honestly say that it is not my fault. I do not lay claim to blame for everything. But whether it is my fault or not, it is my responsibility to do whatever it takes to make sure the badness, whatever it is, does not happen. So blame or not, I own the problem, thus I must find the solution.

I'm not sure if this hair's breadth difference is meaningful or healthy, but it is how I operate.

 

[Netzach]

I am going to drawn a fine distinction here to explain my thoughts on this.

It may or may not be my fault, but it is always my responsibility.

This is how I see it. As the dominant, I may be able to look at a situation and honestly say that it is not my fault. I do not lay claim to blame for everything. But whether it is my fault or not, it is my responsibility to do whatever it takes to make sure the badness, whatever it is, does not happen. So blame or not, I own the problem, thus I must find the solution.

I'm not sure if this hair's breadth difference is meaningful or healthy, but it is how I operate.

There's a load more health in the latter, but I guess I do wonder about the reaches of accountability.

I was just watching The Naked Civil Servant and there's a line in it - the art student with the bum polio leg says to Quentin Crisp:

"I believe everything that happens is our fault.

But that's not our fault."

 

[eastern sun]

This rings true to me. We are definitely an A causes B kind of society, where there is one A and one B. Rarely do we think in terms of organizations or families as systems where each member contributes to the overall function of the whole. I suspect that most of us would be better off if we could see things in a more holistic manner.

I totally agree. Sometimes the causes are so numerous and entangled it's hard to see them all clearly. It's much easier just to cast blame in order to find a way out of the maze.