Mom drops off arguing kids - good or bad?

[Recidiva]

actually I am proud of them. They have spent most of their lives in hicksville but when they went to London, they were not in the least bit phased. They have roamed far and wide in their home area and learned to be responsible. I still fret and worry about them, but less so than if they had spent their lives in cotton wool.

There are ways to raise your kids so they're not cotton wooled, without being an irresponsible moron.

 

[RudeNastyAssBitch]

I agree. there is also the possibility that the kids were just SO spoiled and brattish, and SUCH bullies, that mum just finally snapped.

Our Kids Are What We Make Them~Nods~

10 & 12...

After All The Horrible Shit That Happened To Me As A Wandering Kid...I'll Stick With Dragging Them By Their Ears And Wrists When They Don't Wanna Come, Following Them Wherever They Go Even In High School, And Loving Their Damn Fool Asses To Death!

They Can Become Independent When I Say

 

[paganangel]

wow... first witty thing you posted all night, even if it was a set up

the most devious use of fact known to man.

 

[where]

I spent summers at that fishing hole. Kids ran wild. I was fine.

However, nobody really talks about the four or five kids who end up paralyzed or dead or wheelchair ridden because they wanted to take that jump into the lake from that swing that wasn't all there, or messed around jumping stupid things with their bikes, motor or otherwise.

I grew up around a lot of unsupervised kids. Not all of them made it, even in an entirely criminal-free area. Kids find ways to do stupid things.

If you don't know three or four kids who didn't make it, lucky you.

so you are saying that risk is negated? Kids break their necks falling of swings and climbing frames in playgrounds. Do we stop them playing on swings? Stop them climbing trees?

Of course it's risky living. That's what ultimately makes living so fucking exciting! But you have to learn to assess risk, and if you don't learn as a kid, it's often too late when you reach adulthood.

And you only learn to assess risk by actually being given the opportunity. What the mum did was not a good thing for sure, but it will have taught those kids a valuable lesson. Not least of which is when mum says quit arguing, you stop.

 

[IrezumiKiss]

Nothing happens by accident?

What the fuck world do you live in?

I don't think of the actions and choices of people as accidents, is what I should've said. So that mother just happened to accidentally decide to kick her girls out of the car?

No, that was deliberate because she actually thought she was doing them a favor. Now she's paying for the price of that action. There was a reason behind her way of thinking that turned into a mistake and now she hopefully knows better. Maybe this experience can make her a better parent. Mistake, yes, accident, no.

 

[Recidiva]

so you are saying that risk is negated? Kids break their necks falling of swings and climbing frames in playgrounds. Do we stop them playing on swings? Stop them climbing trees?

Of course it's risky living. That's what ultimately makes living so fucking exciting! But you have to learn to assess risk, and if you don't learn as a kid, it's often too late when you reach adulthood.

And you only learn to assess risk by actually being given the opportunity. What the mum did was not a good thing for sure, but it will have taught those kids a valuable lesson. Not least of which is when mum says quit arguing, you stop.

There's no way to actually assess the risk, as I wasn't there.

I do know I wouldn't have done that to my own kids as any "punishment" because all it teaches is that mom is an idiot.

You have an entirely tangential point that I am not really arguing with you. Healthy well prepared kids would do fine.

The mother is not a healthy or well prepared adult.

 

[Recidiva]

I don't think of the actions and choices of people as accidents, is what I should've said. So that mother just happened to accidentally decide to kick her girls out of the car?

No, that was deliberate because she actually thought she was doing them a favor. Now she's paying for the price of that action. There was a reason behind her way of thinking that turned into a mistake and now she hopefully knows better. Maybe this experience can make her a better parent. Mistake, yes, accident, no.

Being angry, frustrated and unable to control a situation and responding to it by bailing out is not a "life lesson."

She responded irresponsibly.

Everyone else's frustration with "bratty kids" aside, there are any number of ways of disciplining a child under supervised situations where the kids actually learn and aren't put at any risk in the process.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

Anyone want to confirm to me whether or not Kybele has resorted to "the ends justify the means" as a fallback argument yet?

 

[where]

Anyone want to confirm to me whether or not Kybele has resorted to "the ends justify the means" as a fallback argument yet?

you know I haven;t because you are reading every post dick wad.

How traumatised were your kids after you wasted a mutt in front of them?

 

[where]

There's no way to actually assess the risk, as I wasn't there.

I do know I wouldn't have done that to my own kids as any "punishment" because all it teaches is that mom is an idiot.

You have an entirely tangential point that I am not really arguing with you. Healthy well prepared kids would do fine.

The mother is not a healthy or well prepared adult.

Being angry, frustrated and unable to control a situation and responding to it by bailing out is not a "life lesson."

She responded irresponsibly.

Everyone else's frustration with "bratty kids" aside, there are any number of ways of disciplining a child under supervised situations where the kids actually learn and aren't put at any risk in the process.

yes, she acted irresponsibly, yes it was dumb, but, I'll bet she did a fast assessment as to the real danger they were in even as she had a hissy fit.

You don't know what lead up to this, so you can't actually judge fully. Also, she is a fucking human. What mother is perfect? what mother does not make mistakes? Yes, some are worse than others. Some people kill their kids because they don't realise the water in the bath is too hot. Some kill them because they aren't watching close enough when daddy reverses the car up the drive.

This is wholly out of proportion. And it kinda reeks of the class outrage that a rich bitch mum should do this and so be punished. If it had been some woman from a slum area, it wouldn't have even made the newpaper

 

[IrezumiKiss]

Being angry, frustrated and unable to control a situation and responding to it by bailing out is not a "life lesson."

She responded irresponsibly.

Everyone else's frustration with "bratty kids" aside, there are any number of ways of disciplining a child under supervised situations where the kids actually learn and aren't put at any risk in the process.

I don't know about that. See, if this was as traumatic as it's being made out to be for both the mother and the two girls, then I'd call it a real hard life lesson. The police taking the children away from her? That certainly counts as a lesson, even if she might've said to them, "I made an error in judgment, Officer. I was losing my temper and I needed to give them an extreme time out." Not to trivialize it, but I can see something similar to that being said.

Surely she loves her daughters and doesn't want them separated from her even for a short period of time. I don't see this as being abusive in any fashion. But she did make a reckless mistake here that could've ended much worse and she has to pay a penalty for that said irresponsibility. Why wouldn't this be any less of a life lesson than something like, say, having your child be the game-winning hit at the plate for their team in a tied series ball game that everyone is counting on and striking out?

 

[Recidiva]

yes, she acted irresponsibly, yes it was dumb, but, I'll bet she did a fast assessment as to the real danger they were in even as she had a hissy fit.

You don't know what lead up to this, so you can't actually judge fully. Also, she is a fucking human. What mother is perfect? what mother does not make mistakes? Yes, some are worse than others. Some people kill their kids because they don't realise the water in the bath is too hot. Some kill them because they aren't watching close enough when daddy reverses the car up the drive.

This is wholly out of proportion. And it kinda reeks of the class outrage that a rich bitch mum should do this and so be punished. If it had been some woman from a slum area, it wouldn't have even made the newpaper

She wouldn't have had to do any assessment if she'd had an ounce of parenting skills to begin with and didn't tolerate argument in her presence and had control of the situation.

"What mother is perfect?" isn't a defense.

What mother doesn't behave like someone who shouldn't have children in the first place is the question.

It's not out of proportion. Kids who know what's going on, why they're being punished, and what to do about it don't end up on the news at all.

It has nothing to do with rich bitch for me. It has everything to do with responsible parenting.

"The kids should have known better" is also no defense since clearly their role model hasn't taught them any skills such as responsibility, clear headedness in a crisis and assessing risks accurately.

They're minors, they still have a chance to learn if they get to be cared for by someone who can teach them.

 

[Recidiva]

I don't know about that. See, if this was as traumatic as it's being made out to be for both the mother and the two girls, then I'd call it a real hard life lesson. The police taking the children away from her? That certainly counts as a lesson, even if she might've said to them, "I made an error in judgment, Officer. I was losing my temper and I needed to give them an extreme time out." Not to trivialize it, but I can see something similar to that being said.

Surely she loves her daughters and doesn't want them separated from her even for a short period of time. I don't see this as being abusive in any fashion. But she did make a reckless mistake here that could've ended much worse and she has to pay a penalty for that said irresponsibility. Why wouldn't this be any less of a life lesson than something like, say, having your child be the game-winning hit at the plate for their team in a tied series ball game that everyone is counting on and striking out?

It's not about trauma. It's about responsibility.

I'm not a fan of 'hard life lessons' delivered from the air-conditioned drivers seat.

"Surely she loves her daughters?" Where do you see any evidence of that?

 

[Le Jacquelope]

I don't know about that. See, if this was as traumatic as it's being made out to be for both the mother and the two girls, then I'd call it a real hard life lesson. The police taking the children away from her? That certainly counts as a lesson, even if she might've said to them, "I made an error in judgment, Officer. I was losing my temper and I needed to give them an extreme time out." Not to trivialize it, but I can see something similar to that being said.

She dumped her kids out of her car, then started the process of a missing persons check with the cops on her 10 year old.

And another thing - the real life lesson could have been death for the 10 year old if she had been found by someone other than a "Good Samaritan".

Surely she loves her daughters and doesn't want them separated from her even for a short period of time. I don't see this as being abusive in any fashion. But she did make a reckless mistake here that could've ended much worse and she has to pay a penalty for that said irresponsibility.

That last sentence was very well said.

She may also be disbarred or pushed out of her law firm.

Who would want her as an attorney after this?

 

[IrezumiKiss]

It's not about trauma. It's about responsibility.

I'm not a fan of 'hard life lessons' delivered from the air-conditioned drivers seat.

"Surely she loves her daughters?" Where do you see any evidence of that?

But the irresponsibility doesn't negate the trauma received. To me, it's a soft blow because I knew how to walk home at that age even if I would've rather ridden. To the girls, it probably rocked their world. I'm sure they didn't think their mother was really going to kick them out, because if she had done this threatening before to their subsequent quiescence, there wouldn't be a story and there wouldn't be a "wrong" here. Most especially in the mother's eyes.

As far as the loving goes, I'm going to assume that if the girls made it to ages 10 and 12 while being healthy enough to be bratty, it wasn't by the virtue of a good nanny service alone.

She may also be disbarred or pushed out of her law firm.

Who would want her as an attorney after this?

I didn't think of that. Snap. These things don't look good in those firms. Shades of Michael Clayton and shit.

 

[Recidiva]

But the irresponsibility doesn't negate the trauma received. To me, it's a soft blow because I knew how to walk home at that age even if I would've rather ridden. To the girls, it probably rocked their world. I'm sure they didn't think their mother was really going to kick them out, because if she had done this threatening before to their subsequent quiescence, there wouldn't be a story and there wouldn't be a "wrong" here. Most especially in the mother's eyes.

As far as the loving goes, I'm going to assume that if the girls made it to ages 10 and 12 while being healthy enough to be bratty, it wasn't by the virtue of a good nanny service alone.

That's a lot of assumption there. I disagree with most of it. I don't see a loving guardian who instituted "extreme time out" (Whatever that means - time out means time spent away from what a child otherwise wanted to do. Not going walkabout.)

I disagree with your assessment of the mother's state of mind, which was not at all measured, controlled or thinking straight.

THAT is why my choice is what it is, not any subsequent lessons or trauma or anything.

That single lack of judgment and control.

Had she threatened her kids at home that she'd drive them out three miles from home, made sure they were dressed for it, had a snack and some water, good shoes and decent walking clothes, and then followed them slowly in the car so she was sure they were safe, they MIGHT have learned something. That's the ONLY way to assess actual risk. Be available to act on it.

This situation has none of the hallmarks of safety. It has ALL the hallmarks of an unstable and unpredictable adult taking out their frustrations on children in ways that only affect the kids negatively.

 

[ZoeBird]

I don't think it was the best punishment for a mom to give to her kids, but I do think people are making a mountain out of a molehill too. It's not like she pushed them out in the ghetto at 1 am without shoes on and told them to find their way home.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

I don't think it was the best punishment for a mom to give to her kids, but I do think people are making a mountain out of a molehill too. It's not like she pushed them out in the ghetto at 1 am without shoes on and told them to find their way home.

Yeah, because only poor ghetto people hurt kids, right?

 

[ZoeBird]

Yeah, because only poor ghetto people hurt kids, right?

Yes. That is exactly what I said.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

Yes. That is exactly what I said.

News flash. Lots of kids disappear in well to do areas, too.

 

[Luk]

Yeah, because only poor ghetto people hurt kids, right?

Only after midnight. People in affluent neighborhoods hurt kids all day long.

Kinda like you posting here all day long instead of working or teaching your kid(s) life lessons.

 

[Harbinger]

If my ten year old wanted permission to walk three miles to the mall through a busy part of town I would say, "No", because it's not safe for a variety of reasons. So I certainly wouldn't expect her to walk home as punishment. It was a bad call.

If you were responsible for the care of another person's child and did that it would have been a bigger story than this one, to say the least. If someone did that to my ten or twelve year old as punishment I would be out for blood. I can't agree that inappropriate actions are permissible simply because the parent "owns" the child. Parenting is difficult and we all make mistakes at times, and parents are often cut some slack because they are the child's parent, and I'm sure this woman will be given some kind of a break. If it had been someone else's kid when she was in a position of responsibility it would be jail for sure.

As far as the poll goes, I vote "other".

 

[Sharon_]

I spent summers at that fishing hole. Kids ran wild. I was fine.

However, nobody really talks about the four or five kids who end up paralyzed or dead or wheelchair ridden because they wanted to take that jump into the lake from that swing that wasn't all there, or messed around jumping stupid things with their bikes, motor or otherwise.

I grew up around a lot of unsupervised kids. Not all of them made it, even in an entirely criminal-free area. Kids find ways to do stupid things.

If you don't know three or four kids who didn't make it, lucky you.

For God's sake, PUT THE VIOLIN DOWN.

I know one guy who, as a 16 yo, jumped off a motel roof into the shallow end of hotel pool and is a quadriplegic. I know one guy who, (again as a 16 yo) rode his dirtbike up over a ramp and into a barb wire fence and now wears a trach...neither of them blame their circumstances on anything other than their own stupidity.

You can't legislate against stupid. Humans learn from their mistakes, never from their successes. I hate the playgrounds that have those rubber mulch things now instead of dirt because they're spending all their money on that and less on equipment for kids to play on and many places got rid of playground equipment alltogether due to liability risks and/or insurance premiums (insurance companies and lawyers, the two Great Evils of our time).

Folks who have been successfully warping law to protect us from our own stupidity are the reason there's a sticker on my push mower that says 'don't put your hands under the mower deck'. I visualize them as belonging to two camps: the greedy lawyer type camp for personal profit or political gain and the sour, pickle faced types who having no joy in their own lives just want to suck all the fun out of everyone else's.

 

[Sharon_]

so you are saying that risk is negated? Kids break their necks falling of swings and climbing frames in playgrounds. Do we stop them playing on swings? Stop them climbing trees?

Are you kidding me? That's what lawyers and insurance companies *do* here.

A Congressman successfully pushed thru legislation banning LAWN JARTS across the entire nation cuz one kid in his district was tossing one up in the air and it went over the fence spiking the neighbor kid thru the head and killing him.

So now none of us can buy lawn jarts.

 

[blunt_trauma]

heh, i heard some schools banned tag.