Those darned United Auto Workers salaries! $55/hour!

Le Jacquelope

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So can someone man-up and tell me why Conservatives find it more offensive for union workers to earn $55/hour than for CEOs and corporate leaders to earn millions a year?

And while you're at it, can you also explain to me how union workers were more instrumental than corporate leadership in The Big Three's production of gas guzzlers that no one wants to buy?

Oh and also, how is it that Big Three automobiles are CHEAPER than Japanese automobiles, even though BIG THREE union salaries are HIGHER by at LEAST $6/hour? What the fuck? Where did you Conservatives learn mathematics?

C'mon, fuckers, show me where I'm factually wrong. I dare you.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090311/ts_nm/us_ford/print

Ford sees $500 million annual savings in UAW deal
By David Bailey David Bailey 1 hr 15 mins ago

DETROIT (Reuters) – Ford Motor Co said on Wednesday that it expects operating savings of $500 million per year from an agreement with the United Auto Workers that will push hourly wage rates into the "ballpark" of foreign-based rivals.

Ford said the agreement would trim its average wages for the 42,000 workers covered under the contract, including the value of benefits, to about $55 per hour this year, while the U.S. operations of foreign-based automakers -- or what auto executives call "transplants" -- pay workers on average $48 to $49 per hour.

The agreement with the UAW, which workers ratified earlier in March, allows Ford to suspend some performance and bonus payments, reduce overtime costs and cut a paid holiday, as well as restructure funding of a union retiree healthcare trust.

Joe Hinrichs, Ford's global head of manufacturing, said the savings from the operating agreement and restructuring of the funding of the trust, the Voluntary Employee Beneficiary Association, are "critical to our future competitiveness."

"This gets us to within the ballpark of where the transplants are," Hinrichs said in a conference call with analysts and reporters.

"Over the next couple of years with the buyouts and with the ability to leverage some of the other tools that are now in this agreement, we think we can get there within the next couple of years on parity with the transplants," he said.

The annual savings could exceed $500 million if industry conditions allowed Ford to exercise all of the changes in the agreement, Hinrichs said. About half of the annual savings would come from the elimination of performance bonuses and the Christmas bonus and the suspension of cost of living increases.

Ford restructured payments into the VEBA, including the option to contribute about half in company stock, to conserve cash. The plan to make payments in stock requires shareholder approval at the Ford annual meeting this year.

Ford, which posted a record $14.7 billion net loss for 2008, has said it believes it has adequate liquidity to operate through the economic downturn without seeking emergency U.S. government loans.

The agreement with the UAW effectively puts Ford's U.S. hourly wage rates in line with the cuts cross-town rivals General Motors Corp and Chrysler LLC have been negotiating with the union under their government bailouts.

Chrysler, about 80 percent controlled by Cerberus Capital Management LP, and GM have received $17.4 billion of emergency government loans and have requested billions more in emergency loans to complete restructurings.

"It appears that the agreement essentially meets the terms set forth by the U.S. Treasury loan (to GM)," KeyBanc Capital Markets analyst Brett Hoselton said in a note to clients.

"If correct, we believe this is a significant milestone and investors should now turn their attention to negotiations with the bondholders," Hoselton said.

Ford has announced salaried job cuts and executive pay reductions and last week launched an effort to reduce $25.8 billion of automotive debt by up to 40 percent through conversion of debt to equity and tender offers.

Ford also has agreed to offer buyouts to UAW-represented workers from April 1 through May 22. Ford has offered buyouts previously to hourly workers and the offers will be lower than those in the past due to the current economic conditions.

Ford plans to consolidate assembly work between adjacent Michigan Truck and Wayne Assembly plants near Detroit. The automaker is converting its Michigan Truck plant to build the European-designed 2010 Ford Focus small car.

The Wayne facility will continue to perform stamping and some body work and the consolidation is not expected to result in job cuts from the Wayne facility.

In late morning New York Stock Exchange trade, Ford shares were up 14 cents or 7.6 percent to $1.99.

(Reporting by David Bailey; Editing by Lisa Von Ahn and Gerald E. McCormick)
 
They are both abominations.

Unskilled labor and executive pay are both out of control.

However Ford does seem to be working diligently to legitimately fix both.
 
So can someone man-up and tell me why Conservatives find it more offensive for union workers to earn $55/hour than for CEOs and corporate leaders to earn millions a year?

And while you're at it, can you also explain to me how union workers were more instrumental than corporate leadership in The Big Three's production of gas guzzlers that no one wants to buy?

Oh and also, how is it that Big Three automobiles are CHEAPER than Japanese automobiles, even though BIG THREE union salaries are HIGHER by at LEAST $6/hour? What the fuck? Where did you Conservatives learn mathematics?

C'mon, fuckers, show me where I'm factually wrong. I dare you.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090311/ts_nm/us_ford/print

Ford sees $500 million annual savings in UAW deal
By David Bailey David Bailey 1 hr 15 mins ago

DETROIT (Reuters) – Ford Motor Co said on Wednesday that it expects operating savings of $500 million per year from an agreement with the United Auto Workers that will push hourly wage rates into the "ballpark" of foreign-based rivals.

Ford said the agreement would trim its average wages for the 42,000 workers covered under the contract, including the value of benefits, to about $55 per hour this year, while the U.S. operations of foreign-based automakers -- or what auto executives call "transplants" -- pay workers on average $48 to $49 per hour.

The agreement with the UAW, which workers ratified earlier in March, allows Ford to suspend some performance and bonus payments, reduce overtime costs and cut a paid holiday, as well as restructure funding of a union retiree healthcare trust.

Joe Hinrichs, Ford's global head of manufacturing, said the savings from the operating agreement and restructuring of the funding of the trust, the Voluntary Employee Beneficiary Association, are "critical to our future competitiveness."

"This gets us to within the ballpark of where the transplants are," Hinrichs said in a conference call with analysts and reporters.

"Over the next couple of years with the buyouts and with the ability to leverage some of the other tools that are now in this agreement, we think we can get there within the next couple of years on parity with the transplants," he said.

The annual savings could exceed $500 million if industry conditions allowed Ford to exercise all of the changes in the agreement, Hinrichs said. About half of the annual savings would come from the elimination of performance bonuses and the Christmas bonus and the suspension of cost of living increases.

Ford restructured payments into the VEBA, including the option to contribute about half in company stock, to conserve cash. The plan to make payments in stock requires shareholder approval at the Ford annual meeting this year.

Ford, which posted a record $14.7 billion net loss for 2008, has said it believes it has adequate liquidity to operate through the economic downturn without seeking emergency U.S. government loans.

The agreement with the UAW effectively puts Ford's U.S. hourly wage rates in line with the cuts cross-town rivals General Motors Corp and Chrysler LLC have been negotiating with the union under their government bailouts.

Chrysler, about 80 percent controlled by Cerberus Capital Management LP, and GM have received $17.4 billion of emergency government loans and have requested billions more in emergency loans to complete restructurings.

"It appears that the agreement essentially meets the terms set forth by the U.S. Treasury loan (to GM)," KeyBanc Capital Markets analyst Brett Hoselton said in a note to clients.

"If correct, we believe this is a significant milestone and investors should now turn their attention to negotiations with the bondholders," Hoselton said.

Ford has announced salaried job cuts and executive pay reductions and last week launched an effort to reduce $25.8 billion of automotive debt by up to 40 percent through conversion of debt to equity and tender offers.

Ford also has agreed to offer buyouts to UAW-represented workers from April 1 through May 22. Ford has offered buyouts previously to hourly workers and the offers will be lower than those in the past due to the current economic conditions.

Ford plans to consolidate assembly work between adjacent Michigan Truck and Wayne Assembly plants near Detroit. The automaker is converting its Michigan Truck plant to build the European-designed 2010 Ford Focus small car.

The Wayne facility will continue to perform stamping and some body work and the consolidation is not expected to result in job cuts from the Wayne facility.

In late morning New York Stock Exchange trade, Ford shares were up 14 cents or 7.6 percent to $1.99.

(Reporting by David Bailey; Editing by Lisa Von Ahn and Gerald E. McCormick)

I think it's wonderful that autoworkers can earn $55 an hour in salary and benefits - if the company they are working for is profitable.
As for the gas guzzlers, people not wanting to buy them is a recent phenomenon. I can't blame Detroit for making vehicles people wanted to buy.
They had a big sell-off of SUVs and work trucks where I live, and people were getting new vehicles for over $10,000 off list back when gas was over $4 a gallon. And they were selling like hotcakes.
There was a quote in my local newspaper about that from a salesman: No matter the price of gas, people still need to work with trucks and still need to pull their boats.
The trade-off at the time was that those big trucks and SUVs had no resale value to speak of. That's not true anymore, so the people who bought while the price was way down are reaping the benefits and will continue to do so as long as the demand for petroleum remains low.
 
They are both abominations.

Unskilled labor and executive pay are both out of control.

However Ford does seem to be working diligently to legitimately fix both.
How many workers is that? 250,000?

Can you imagine the crashing sound that would occur if you lowered the salaries of that many people?

That's the crashing sound of all the businesses they patronize, collapsing, BTW.

We need higher wages, not lower wages, if we are to recover from this mess. Lower wages means an explosion of frugality which kills businesses.

We need to grow our way out...
 
How many workers is that? 250,000?

Can you imagine the crashing sound that would occur if you lowered the salaries of that many people?

That's the crashing sound of all the businesses they patronize, collapsing, BTW.

We need higher wages, not lower wages, if we are to recover from this mess. Lower wages means an explosion of frugality which kills businesses.

We need to grow our way out...

^^^^coming from a multi-millionaire who drives a Toyota (supposedly). Put your money where your mouth is and buy a Ford.
 
$55/hour x 40hrs x 50 weeks = $110,000./year

That's pretty good money for running an air wrench.
 
Oh peppie you are still missing the point. In the end no one cares what the other is making in a free market. In fact most hope that his or her neighbor is doing well.

Here is where you go so violently wrong.

You feel the need for the union to set some artificial dollar amount for wages.

Today it’s the big 3, soon the next big union problem will be teachers.


So can someone man-up and tell me why Conservatives find it more offensive for union workers to earn $55/hour than for CEOs and corporate leaders to earn millions a year?

And while you're at it, can you also explain to me how union workers were more instrumental than corporate leadership in The Big Three's production of gas guzzlers that no one wants to buy?

Oh and also, how is it that Big Three automobiles are CHEAPER than Japanese automobiles, even though BIG THREE union salaries are HIGHER by at LEAST $6/hour? What the fuck? Where did you Conservatives learn mathematics?

C'mon, fuckers, show me where I'm factually wrong. I dare you.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090311/ts_nm/us_ford/print

Ford sees $500 million annual savings in UAW deal
By David Bailey David Bailey 1 hr 15 mins ago

DETROIT (Reuters) – Ford Motor Co said on Wednesday that it expects operating savings of $500 million per year from an agreement with the United Auto Workers that will push hourly wage rates into the "ballpark" of foreign-based rivals.

Ford said the agreement would trim its average wages for the 42,000 workers covered under the contract, including the value of benefits, to about $55 per hour this year, while the U.S. operations of foreign-based automakers -- or what auto executives call "transplants" -- pay workers on average $48 to $49 per hour.

The agreement with the UAW, which workers ratified earlier in March, allows Ford to suspend some performance and bonus payments, reduce overtime costs and cut a paid holiday, as well as restructure funding of a union retiree healthcare trust.

Joe Hinrichs, Ford's global head of manufacturing, said the savings from the operating agreement and restructuring of the funding of the trust, the Voluntary Employee Beneficiary Association, are "critical to our future competitiveness."

"This gets us to within the ballpark of where the transplants are," Hinrichs said in a conference call with analysts and reporters.

"Over the next couple of years with the buyouts and with the ability to leverage some of the other tools that are now in this agreement, we think we can get there within the next couple of years on parity with the transplants," he said.

The annual savings could exceed $500 million if industry conditions allowed Ford to exercise all of the changes in the agreement, Hinrichs said. About half of the annual savings would come from the elimination of performance bonuses and the Christmas bonus and the suspension of cost of living increases.

Ford restructured payments into the VEBA, including the option to contribute about half in company stock, to conserve cash. The plan to make payments in stock requires shareholder approval at the Ford annual meeting this year.

Ford, which posted a record $14.7 billion net loss for 2008, has said it believes it has adequate liquidity to operate through the economic downturn without seeking emergency U.S. government loans.

The agreement with the UAW effectively puts Ford's U.S. hourly wage rates in line with the cuts cross-town rivals General Motors Corp and Chrysler LLC have been negotiating with the union under their government bailouts.

Chrysler, about 80 percent controlled by Cerberus Capital Management LP, and GM have received $17.4 billion of emergency government loans and have requested billions more in emergency loans to complete restructurings.

"It appears that the agreement essentially meets the terms set forth by the U.S. Treasury loan (to GM)," KeyBanc Capital Markets analyst Brett Hoselton said in a note to clients.

"If correct, we believe this is a significant milestone and investors should now turn their attention to negotiations with the bondholders," Hoselton said.

Ford has announced salaried job cuts and executive pay reductions and last week launched an effort to reduce $25.8 billion of automotive debt by up to 40 percent through conversion of debt to equity and tender offers.

Ford also has agreed to offer buyouts to UAW-represented workers from April 1 through May 22. Ford has offered buyouts previously to hourly workers and the offers will be lower than those in the past due to the current economic conditions.

Ford plans to consolidate assembly work between adjacent Michigan Truck and Wayne Assembly plants near Detroit. The automaker is converting its Michigan Truck plant to build the European-designed 2010 Ford Focus small car.

The Wayne facility will continue to perform stamping and some body work and the consolidation is not expected to result in job cuts from the Wayne facility.

In late morning New York Stock Exchange trade, Ford shares were up 14 cents or 7.6 percent to $1.99.

(Reporting by David Bailey; Editing by Lisa Von Ahn and Gerald E. McCormick)
 
It will certainly help us compete with offshore products.
If we try to lower our wages to compete with China or India, America will become a third world country.

It's better to cut off trade with them and end all trade barriers with Western democracies.

We can produce the goods that China and India make now.
 
Well you are correct in that we could make some products. One issue, do we even make resin any longer? How can one shut down a market without playing tick for tat? How about this concept, we figure out a way how to make a product or service for less money that is better? What a brilliant idea!

If we try to lower our wages to compete with China or India, America will become a third world country.

It's better to cut off trade with them and end all trade barriers with Western democracies.

We can produce the goods that China and India make now.
 
So what you are saying is that America can never create a product or service to compete with other countries?

Sounds like you have a bullies issue? Let’s close our boarders and not allow those competing countries to complete with us!


If we try to lower our wages to compete with China or India, America will become a third world country.

It's better to cut off trade with them and end all trade barriers with Western democracies.

We can produce the goods that China and India make now.
 
So what you are saying is that America can never create a product or service to compete with other countries?

Sounds like you have a bullies issue? Let’s close our borders and not allow those competing countries to complete with us!

You are right jeninflorida. The sooner we come up with new inventions and innovations, the better off we will be. :cattail:
 
Well you are correct in that we could make some products. One issue, do we even make resin any longer? How can one shut down a market without playing tick for tat? How about this concept, we figure out a way how to make a product or service for less money that is better? What a brilliant idea!
You cannot beat make a product for less than what China makes it. That's impossible. You would have to reduce American workers' wages to China's level. If you cannot do that then you have about as much of a chance to out-compete them as Janet Reno has a chance of out-competing Aishwarya Rai in a beauty contest.

As for tick for tat, if you shut off China, they're fucked. Who will they sell to? How can they retaliate? There is no tick for tat. They would sell off our currency and call in our debt, but in my opinion, we need that. It's called drying out from our China drug addiction. It's gotta be done.

If we continue free trade with China I guarantee you they will be calling the global political shots. Do you want to live under their hegemony?
 
That is a lot of my point, I will bash a union and think that union leaders (and most government leaders are as valuable as boat anchors) but could care less what anyone earns. Peppie says $55, fine, I’m okay with that. I’m okay with $75 an hour as long as the market demands that.

One thing that most people forget, when we talk union its not apples to apples in that a Tim Jones plumbing service in south bend Indian is a union shop and they compete with Jim Jones plumbing service in the same city. Well that is fair they are both on the same wage sale and both fighting to keep employees and find the best employees possible. where unions go wrong is when they try to compete with Jim Asian in Asia.



so lets forget about putting blame on bush and obama and can we try to move forward.

I’m about to be unemployed anyone hiring?


You are right jeninflorida. The sooner we come up with new inventions and innovations, the better off we will be. :cattail:
 
This is why I earn what I earn, cuz look at your freaking comment. We can’t do this. We can’t do that. can’t can’t can’t can’t

Negative, negative, and more negative.

You cannot beat make a product for less than what China makes it. That's impossible. You would have to reduce American workers' wages to China's level. If you cannot do that then you have about as much of a chance to out-compete them as Janet Reno has a chance of out-competing Aishwarya Rai in a beauty contest.

As for tick for tat, if you shut off China, they're fucked. Who will they sell to? How can they retaliate? There is no tick for tat. They would sell off our currency and call in our debt, but in my opinion, we need that. It's called drying out from our China drug addiction. It's gotta be done.

If we continue free trade with China I guarantee you they will be calling the global political shots. Do you want to live under their hegemony?
 
get off your ass and figure out a way to!

You cannot beat make a product for less than what China makes it. That's impossible. You would have to reduce American workers' wages to China's level. If you cannot do that then you have about as much of a chance to out-compete them as Janet Reno has a chance of out-competing Aishwarya Rai in a beauty contest.

As for tick for tat, if you shut off China, they're fucked. Who will they sell to? How can they retaliate? There is no tick for tat. They would sell off our currency and call in our debt, but in my opinion, we need that. It's called drying out from our China drug addiction. It's gotta be done.

If we continue free trade with China I guarantee you they will be calling the global political shots. Do you want to live under their hegemony?
 
That is a lot of my point, I will bash a union and think that union leaders (and most government leaders are as valuable as boat anchors) but could care less what anyone earns. Peppie says $55, fine, I’m okay with that. I’m okay with $75 an hour as long as the market demands that.

One thing that most people forget, when we talk union its not apples to apples in that a Tim Jones plumbing service in south bend Indian is a union shop and they compete with Jim Jones plumbing service in the same city. Well that is fair they are both on the same wage sale and both fighting to keep employees and find the best employees possible. where unions go wrong is when they try to compete with Jim Asian in Asia.

so lets forget about putting blame on bush and obama and can we try to move forward.

I’m about to be unemployed anyone hiring?


I notice there are a lot of job openings in sales.
 
get off your ass and figure out a way to!
Are you not listening? It's impossible to do without reducing our wages to China's level.

You must believe in sorcery or something.

Hell, I bet you don't even care that every time you buy something made in China, you're giving them money to kill their baby girls... which is fairly a national pastime over there.
 
peppie give up! there is no hope, the world is over.



Are you not listening? It's impossible to do without reducing our wages to China's level.

You must believe in sorcery or something.

Hell, I bet you don't even care that every time you buy something made in China, you're giving them money to kill their baby girls... which is fairly a national pastime over there.
 
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