And They Want $1.2 Trillion

[cloudy]

WOW

Now I remember why I've always stayed away from religious and political discussions in Real life and on line. Someone always has to get so angry when they "debate" and start name calling.

Personally, I prefer to simply state my belief and agree to disagree agreeably. That's just me.

Don't let him bother you...he's nothing but a bitter old redneck. He certainly doesn't bother me.

 

[Stella_Omega]

-- Up to $1 billion for "summer activities" for youths as old as 24 All those youths will need supervision, training, etc.

AND those youths will be off the streets, out of trouble, learning skills, gaining a little more confidence in themselves...

 

[sadangel]

Don't let him bother you...he's nothing but a bitter old redneck. He certainly doesn't bother me.

I guess I just don't understand that kind of anger over someone else's difference of opinion.

Maybe it's the Libra in me. I tend to see both sides of discussions. I've actually debated the opposite of what I believe on abortion in order to understand more about why people believe the way they do. (I happen to be Pro-choice *with certian limitations* and debated the side of the Church with Pro-life)

AND those youths will be off the streets, out of trouble, learning skills, gaining a little more confidence in themselves...

And that's a good thing in my opinion.

 

[rgraham666]

AND those youths will be off the streets, out of trouble, learning skills, gaining a little more confidence in themselves...

Well, jail is cheaper. They learn lots there too.

 

[Huckleman2000]

Well, jail is cheaper. They learn lots there too.

Actually, I doubt jail is cheaper - it's just privatized in many areas.

 

[sadangel]

Well, jail is cheaper. They learn lots there too.

Yeah. They do.

They learn how to cheat, steal and murder people faster, better, stronger. Just what they need to learn for the Real World.

I think I'll take new programs for trying to keep them OUT of jail. Even if it costs more. I'd rather have productive youths than criminal youths any day.

<hopes Rob knows that the first two sentences are just tounge-in-cheek>

 

[DesertPirate]

The best definition of a conservative I have ever seen.


“Allowing for differences I would define a conservative, first as one who believes in the Constitution as it is written. That takes care of free speech, freedom of religion, the right to petition the government, the right to keep and bear arms and, in the words of William O. Douglas in one of his saner moments, ‘the right to be let alone.’

“Second, a conservative believes in small, limited government at every level. Along with this he believes strongly in individual responsibility. That is, a person or a family should take care of itself and turn for help to government only when all other means have been exhausted. It also means that society, before government, has a duty to take care of its own. Government should be a resource of last resort.

“Third, a conservative believes taxes should be levied for the purpose of financing the limited responsibilities of government such as providing for the common defense, catching and incarcerating criminals, minting money and filling potholes. Taxes should not be levied for the purpose of redistributing wealth.

“That’s about it.

“One other thing I think a conservative believes is that the parents, not government, are and should be responsible for the upbringing and behavior of their children.”

-- Reagan adviser Lyn Nofziger

 

[Huckleman2000]

[..]
-- Reagan adviser Lyn Nofziger

Nofziger has been widely discredited for being a brownnose twit with a woman's name. He just said that to sell a book or something.

 

[midwestyankee]

These parts of the Porkulous bill are really going to "stimulate" the economy and create jobs, aren't they?

-- $100 million for the Lead-Based Paint Hazard Control Grant Program
-- $200 million to the Leaking Underground Storage Tank Trust Fund Program
-- $300 million for "Violence Against Women Prevention and Prosecution Programs"
-- $900 million for the IRS for the "Limitation on Administrative Expenses"
-- $1 million for the Railroad Retirement Board for administrative costs
-- $2 billion for the Drinking Water State Revolving Act
-- $50 million for Health and Human Services to carry out injury prevention programs
-- $1.1 billion for studies on the effectiveness of different medical treatments -- $200 million to upgrade labs and facilities for the Department of Agriculture "to improve workplace safety and mission-area efficiencies"
-- $10 million for urban canal inspection
-- $16 billion to pay for student financial aid
-- $1 billion to pay for the U.S. Census
-- $600 million to pay for a fuel-efficient federal auto fleet
-- $650 million for the Digital Converter Box Program to help the constantly delayed transition from analog television
-- $485 million to the Forest Service for "hazardous fuels reduction and hazard mitigation activities in areas at high risk of catastrophic wildfire"
-- Up to $1 billion for "summer activities" for youths as old as 24
-- $40 million for the occupational research agenda
-- $3 billion for the Centers for Disease Control wellness programs and vaccinations
-- $410 million for Indian health facilities
-- $2.4 billion for carbon-capture demonstrations

This is just a dream pork spending bill, nothing more, nothing less. There are many items that might be worth funding, just not as part of a "Stimulous" bill. Just a Federal funding wet dream.

Here's a consideration for you and anyone else who thinks like you.

I ask a simple question: how much of the spending that we did for World War II, which is generally credited for being the final push of spending that pulled the U. S. out of the Great Depression, actually was for goods and services that were useful to citizens at home in the U. S.? That's right: almost zero. In fact, we could have built all those planes, tanks, guns, and knapsacks and dumped them off the coast of California and gotten the same amount of economic stimulus.

By complaining about individual components of the stimulus bill you are giving concrete evidence that you do not understand how stimulus works: it's all by putting money into the economy. It doesn't really matter what the money does; all that matter is that the money gets out into the economy. Yes, it's politically attractive to spend the money on seemingly good things for people, but that's only necessary for politics. It's of absolutely no consequence to the value of the money as stimulus.

So go ahead, bitch and whine and moan about a few million here or there for projects that you think sound ill-advised. You're just proving your ignorance.

 

[DesertPirate]

Nofziger has been widely discredited for being a brownnose twit with a woman's name. He just said that to sell a book or something.

I see you caught Cloudy's terminal PMS

 

[Huckleman2000]

I see you caught Cloudy's terminal PMS

Actually, I was mocking the way you argue.

 

[DeeZire]

1 billion for the census? I just took the census-taker test yesterday. It was in a church classroom, with notes on Sunday's sermon on one dry-erase board and census info on the other. I'm considering a lawsuit...

 

[The_Fool]

1 billion for the census? I just took the census-taker test yesterday. It was in a church classroom, with notes on Sunday's sermon on one dry-erase board and census info on the other. I'm considering a lawsuit...

There's a blurt here somewhere.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I guess I just don't understand that kind of anger over someone else's difference of opinion.

Maybe it's the Libra in me. I tend to see both sides of discussions. I've actually debated the opposite of what I believe on abortion in order to understand more about why people believe the way they do. (I happen to be Pro-choice *with certian limitations* and debated the side of the Church with Pro-life)

You're in the company of writers, here-- people who care enough about something to sit down and throw word after word on the screen, ignoring the diches, the dog, the kids, the trash...

We do throw a lot of punches, a lot of bottles go through the window.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

MIDWESTYANKEE

I dont think so.

Hitler brought America out of the Depression. Once he ruined the economies of Europe, America had no competition for many years. Even Japan was knocked out.

The world had to come to America for what it needed.

Much of the charity work America does is designed to kill natal commercial & industrial development.

 

[trysail]

The best definition of a conservative I have ever seen.


“Allowing for differences I would define a conservative, first as one who believes in the Constitution as it is written. That takes care of free speech, freedom of religion, the right to petition the government, the right to keep and bear arms and, in the words of William O. Douglas in one of his saner moments, ‘the right to be let alone.’

“Second, a conservative believes in small, limited government at every level. Along with this he believes strongly in individual responsibility. That is, a person or a family should take care of itself and turn for help to government only when all other means have been exhausted. It also means that society, before government, has a duty to take care of its own. Government should be a resource of last resort.

“Third, a conservative believes taxes should be levied for the purpose of financing the limited responsibilities of government such as providing for the common defense, catching and incarcerating criminals, minting money and filling potholes. Taxes should not be levied for the purpose of redistributing wealth.

“That’s about it.

“One other thing I think a conservative believes is that the parents, not government, are and should be responsible for the upbringing and behavior of their children.”

-- Reagan adviser Lyn Nofziger

There's a great deal to be said for the philosophy underlying the above statement. It ain't perfect but there isn't a whole lot that's wrong with the underlying weltanschauung and social contract.

In contrast, an admittedly reductio ad absurdum ( but not that far off ) of an alternative philosophy frequently appears to be framed along these lines:

"We won't be held responsible for the consequences of our choices and actions. We'll make babies but won't provide for either them or ourselves. We are entitled to rely upon the coerced kindness of strangers."

 

[Belegon]

You're in the company of writers, here-- people who care enough about something to sit down and throw word after word on the screen, ignoring the diches, the dog, the kids, the trash...

We do throw a lot of punches, a lot of bottles go through the window.

...and don't forget that we are arrogant enough to believe that people will then want to read what we wrote and in some cases even pay for the privilege.

 

[rgraham666]

Behind all the carping about 'individualism' and 'self-reliance' that the revolutionaries claiming to be conservatives are constantly going on about is the sotto voce message, "Those people aren't really Americans. And I truly hate that my money goes to them. I have no responsibility for their welfare or happiness. Fuck 'em."

They're free to think so. I just wish they weren't such hypocrites about it and own up to their partisanship.

 

[DeeZire]

The best definition of a conservative I have ever seen.
....“Second, a conservative believes in small, limited government at every level. Along with this he believes strongly in individual responsibility.....

Just thought I'd point out the disconnect between this conservative ideal and the record of conservatives such as GW Bush who have shown a total inability to take responsibility for their actions.

 

[rgraham666]

Taking responsibility is the same as admitting you are wrong.

That is something no ideologue of any political stripe is ever going to do.

If the world doesn't respond to their perfect ideas that is the world's fault, not thiers.

 

[JackLuis]

So are you all going to agree to disagree in an agreeable way?

No, I thought not.

This a case where your skill as a writer and as a prognosticator is challenged.

I suggest a contest.

Perhaps 5,000 to 15,000 words on the world of 2015. That should allow enough time for the "Great Pork Barrel" of oute-nine to have done what it will do.

A character in that year has a epiffiny, -------------- (Fill in here the the realization that the "Great Pork Barrel" was responsible for-------(What Ever).

The story has to touch on the effect of the legislation and the aftermath touching the Protagonist in a personal way.

Show, don't tell the effects of this "Once In A Generation Legislation" on the world of one, or more ( hopfully more the merrier) member of a particular class. ( Working,Technical, Professional,>>>)

Show how this bill will/could/might effect the world?

You all like to discuss and have firm beliefs, let's see what you can do?
****
Oh and Is Bush going to be hung, or shot? LOL

 

[JackLuis]

http://www.nationalpriorities.org/costofwar_home

Here is a plot point ot make.

 

[DeeZire]

I suggest a contest.

Perhaps 5,000 to 15,000 words on the world of 2015. That should allow enough time for the "Great Pork Barrel" of oute-nine to have done what it will do.

Would this 2015 date be before or after China takes over this country?

 

[rgraham666]

In 2015 North America north of the Rio Grande including Canada will be somewhere between the former Yugoslavia and The Congo in political structure. A bunch of almost city-states with great swathes of anarchy in between.

Amicus, DP and Jimmy Bob will be happier than pigs in shit.

I will have moved to Europe.

 

[jeninflorida]

one issue, most of these projects are short term...once the project is completed or upgraded, the jobs are gone.

I've answered some of these in red.