An author's question: 'fantasy bdsm' fic vs 'real' bdsm fic

[Binah]

When I write, I usually have elements of BDSM, if not complete overtones of it, but the bdsm elements I write about are very fantasy, meaning, they are not the way it works in real life. It is more of an Anne Rice style of BDSM.

My question to you is, do you feel that this kind of writing is irresponsible or condemnable within the BDSM community? Do people within your community get upset if the rules that apply to your community's activities are not held within the realm of an author's fiction?

I am just curious and would like to know your thoughts. I appreciate any and all answers. Thank you for taking the time

 

[DreamSensualist]

.....

 

[Kajira Callista]

When I write, I usually have elements of BDSM, if not complete overtones of it, but the bdsm elements I write about are very fantasy, meaning, they are not the way it works in real life. It is more of an Anne Rice style of BDSM.

My question to you is, do you feel that this kind of writing is irresponsible or condemnable within the BDSM community? Do people within your community get upset if the rules that apply to your community's activities are not held within the realm of an author's fiction?

I am just curious and would like to know your thoughts. I appreciate any and all answers. Thank you for taking the time

Fiction is fiction and hopefully most people in this world can differentiate between fantasy and reality. If it is written well I for one do not have a problem with it not being able to work in real life.

 

[SlaveNano]

As both somebody who participates in bdsm activities and as an author of bdsm stories that have a fantasy element I have no problems with this style of writing - in fact I really enjoy them, often more than stories that are more realistic as they can stretch your imagination and suggest new possibilities. I think you can be inspired by a real time domination experience and translate it into a good fantasy story. When I submitted my first story though I was torn between whether to put it in bdsm or erotic horror category. In the end I opted for the former because that more closely reflected a lifestyle and why I had written them in the first place. I also write from a femdom/goddess worship angle - the feedback I got from an earlier thread of mine suggests that you will probably be narrowing your audience by writing bdsm with a fantasy element. I guess this doesn't matter if you enjoy writing in that way.

 

[Hisscarlett]

Personally I don't think it matters. I write BDSM themed stories too and though mine are more based in reality I enjoy reading fantasy as well.

As stated above the only problem is if someone stumbles across a fantasy story and judges those in reality by what they have read. But that happens in all aspects of life.

I have found that I don't get much feedback on my BDSM stories so I am not sure if that will be true for you as well.

I am going to make time to read your story later.

s

 

[FurryFury]

If something happens in a story of any kind, and I know it's NOT possible, that breaks the willful suspension of disbelief for me.

Now if it's the sort of fantasy where there is a reason because it's fantasy that it could happen, i.e. the creature has extra arms or something, that's okay.

I don't like it when I see things like Ann Rice's Beauty series in which people are left doubled and hanging for hours on end. Or where men are expected to maintain an erection 24/7.

When BDSM is put down to anger it bothers me too.

Worst of all, perhaps, is the BDSM practitioner serial killer.



I would really like to see a series in which both the PYL and pyl were respected and treated well. I'd like to see that they have a healthy relationship and mutual love.

I feel that fiction which is realistic and espouses some of the aspects I feel are most valuable in BDSM would go a long way to making BDSM more understandable for some.

OTOH, I do write what I consider to be fantasy non-consent stories myself. I do try to make them realistic within the non-consent format. No clips left on for hours and hours for me or my heroine.

 

[Homburg]

If something happens in a story of any kind, and I know it's NOT possible, that breaks the willful suspension of disbelief for me.

This is my issue as well. Suspension of disbelief goes straight out the window when I hit this sort of thing ("Gee, there sure are a LOT of princes and princesses in this story, and erections 24/7? Ain't that called priapus?")

I also get tired of the same old fantasy BS. It's tiresome to have the same set of unrealistic cliches brought out, and mother jesus balls, stop having every dominant character call the submissive "slut" constantly. I randomly parsed a few dozen stories on lit one day and a truly absurd number overused "slut" as the moniker for the submissive. *yawn*

Lastly, I feel like it skews people that read it. The stories are written to extremes so as to really get the brain chemicals going (no pictures after all), and after a while people that read the stories a lot get wound up by them and used to that imagery. They begine to seriously eroticise it, and want it in Real Life. When they finally get the chance to play, it can cause some interesting reactions.

I like reality. Fantasy is ludicrous far too often. It is entirely possible to keep it realistic, but very few writiers seem to maintain plausibility at all. And damned near anything actively sexual done "for hours and hours" becomes real, non-erotic torture. Anything.

 

[CutieMouse]

My only annoyance are people who read something like The Story of O and think that's BDSM... as in "I read The Story of O and I just know I'm a submissive/slave/Master/Dom..." then proceed to be disappointed when confronted with the less sexy aspect of things.

 

[FurryFury]

I so agree with you. BTW, I don't take kindly to being called slut nor would I call anyone I actually knew that. (Cat's and celebrities of both sexes I might.)

This is my issue as well. Suspension of disbelief goes straight out the window when I hit this sort of thing ("Gee, there sure are a LOT of princes and princesses in this story, and erections 24/7? Ain't that called priapus?")

I also get tired of the same old fantasy BS. It's tiresome to have the same set of unrealistic cliches brought out, and mother jesus balls, stop having every dominant character call the submissive "slut" constantly. I randomly parsed a few dozen stories on lit one day and a truly absurd number overused "slut" as the moniker for the submissive. *yawn*

Lastly, I feel like it skews people that read it. The stories are written to extremes so as to really get the brain chemicals going (no pictures after all), and after a while people that read the stories a lot get wound up by them and used to that imagery. They begine to seriously eroticise it, and want it in Real Life. When they finally get the chance to play, it can cause some interesting reactions.

I like reality. Fantasy is ludicrous far too often. It is entirely possible to keep it realistic, but very few writiers seem to maintain plausibility at all. And damned near anything actively sexual done "for hours and hours" becomes real, non-erotic torture. Anything.

 

[Puman]

("Gee, there sure are a LOT of princes and princesses in this story, and erections 24/7? Ain't that called priapus?")

... I do sometimes find myself wondering when the hell some of these fantasy "real-life" men took all that viagra

If the setting and characters are fantastical and over the top, then I can enjoy anything that goes, as long as it's well written. Just keep it real when you're trying to keep it real.

 

[Zoots_owner]

I've been bothered by unreal portrayals of BDSM in a couple of ways.

My slave couldn't get through that Anne Rice series, she quit maybe halfway through the second book. I don't think it was the impossible orders and abuses so much as that the whole feeling was just wrong. There are, for example, a lot of hardcore romantic types in D/s and BDSM, yet that seems to be so absent in many of the stories. I never read the Rice books myself, but I have to wonder, is she really clear on the concept?

It also bothers me when I find that many people DO believe that stories like that are based on what BDSM is really like. I met such a person just today, and she went all judgmental on me, telling me that I was a terrible person for being into D/s - even though the reason we were talking was that she needed help with the logistics of setting up a gangbang for herself and a girlfriend. When even our fellow pervs don't understand us at all, I have to believe that we have a problem on our hands.

I can't blame authors for the gullibility of their readers, but I wish there were some realistic portrayals of kink in popular literature. Many aspects of BDSM relationships are boringly normal, or violate stereotypes. I hope that one day people will read about those, too, at least occasionally.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Seriously, if people want to read fiction, they need to be adult about it and not expect fiction to always mirror reality. One of my pet peeves in life is when people automatically assume and believe that a book, movie script etc., written well and which gets them thinking obviously reflects a significant part of the writers personality and/or experiences....sheesh, so someone writes about murder so they obviously have murdered or seriously considered murdering someone? Give me a break.

Same goes with BDSM fiction... if people want 100% reality, read non-fiction and be done with fiction. As for calling people names such as 'slut'...might not be some people's cup of tea, but for others it works well...does that mean they are warped or not 'real' BDSM? I don't think so, just people need to once again be adult and broad minded enough to appreciate what works for them may not work for others and vice versa, nor is this a one size fits all lifestyle. Slut is a quite common word around here from both sides of the whip, though not always in complete seriousness. Some actual actions in books may seem too out there, but in reality there are people who have endured and survived macarbe and extreme torture in a number of real life situations such as war....might not be all nice and erotically pleasing to the majority, but it also is not a recipe for certain death or permanent disability.

As I have said in other discussions about the need for fiction writers of BDSM erotica and/or stories to be 100% mindful of reality and set a safe example for the reader to follow or at least get an idea of what BDSM is all about, it is nonsense...it is fiction, not a manual for safe and ethical BDSM!! Even in regards to presenting a picture of what BDSM is and stands for, that too is subjective to everyone's personal idea of what works and is for them, no true way which all should follow faithfully or be damned for all time. By all means set your own standards, but please don't mock or put down others who do not share your exact tastes, methods and ideals just because you don't get off on it personally....many of the things I have seen people mock or ridicule here over the years have later become part of those same people's repetoire, thus then and only then, becoming OK, but not until they have personally seen the value of the practice in question for themselves.

Catalina

Oh, and as for 24/7 erections? LOL, I would say I have known a few men who can manage that without effort, one being the insatiable F!

 

[ecstaticsub]

My only annoyance are people who read something like The Story of O and think that's BDSM... as in "I read The Story of O and I just know I'm a submissive/slave/Master/Dom..." then proceed to be disappointed when confronted with the less sexy aspect of things.

Sorry if I annoy you but..reading The Story of O is what made me finally make that leap from fantasizing about submission to real life D/s. I didn't think it was in any way a realistic portrayal of what D/s or M/s was like but, after living a mostly sheltered vanilla life for 40ish years it was as if it in some way legitamisized (sp) these naughty dark fantasies I've had ever since my childhood. The man who is now my PYL asked me to read it just to see what my reaction would be. It completely turned me on. But it never entered my mind that it was reality.

I enjoyed the Ann Rice books also. I read them right after becoming collared. I like fantasy books anyway so I thought they were fun. A book doesn't have to be realistic to get my pussy wet.

 

[FurryFury]

I suspect Anne Rice and most mainstream authors that dabble in BDSM lit have NO idea what it's all about. For them, I suspect it's just an interesting idea they can't quite wrap thier heads around.

Thus they give us, the murders, the anger and other outlandish stuff that others might think makes sense. That's sad. In some cases I get quite angry about what they show BDSM to be.

If,they had done thier research, which they would do for a location or time period, this wouldn't happen. Either they don't bother or focus only on certain aspects never fully grasping the why of things, and thereby completely skewing the whole concept in thier books.

The other thing about the beauty books was that no one had anything at all to do. There was no work to running a Queendom at all, only spankings and such to make happen. Bleck.

I've been bothered by unreal portrayals of BDSM in a couple of ways.

My slave couldn't get through that Anne Rice series, she quit maybe halfway through the second book. I don't think it was the impossible orders and abuses so much as that the whole feeling was just wrong. There are, for example, a lot of hardcore romantic types in D/s and BDSM, yet that seems to be so absent in many of the stories. I never read the Rice books myself, but I have to wonder, is she really clear on the concept?

It also bothers me when I find that many people DO believe that stories like that are based on what BDSM is really like. I met such a person just today, and she went all judgmental on me, telling me that I was a terrible person for being into D/s - even though the reason we were talking was that she needed help with the logistics of setting up a gangbang for herself and a girlfriend. When even our fellow pervs don't understand us at all, I have to believe that we have a problem on our hands.

I can't blame authors for the gullibility of their readers, but I wish there were some realistic portrayals of kink in popular literature. Many aspects of BDSM relationships are boringly normal, or violate stereotypes. I hope that one day people will read about those, too, at least occasionally.

 

[Hisscarlett]

The Story of O quite literally drives me insane.

She tops from the bottom constantly and her "Masters" are lacking in so many ways I can't bear it.

The book is tossed from one side of the room to the other each time I have attempted to force my way through it and the DVD - which Master bought for me as a joke - never fails to get me ranting.

There are parts of it which are good, parts which accurately get into the right headspace but then it spins off into something which is so far from any possible truth that it makes my skin crawl.

Putting on the movie is one of the punishments Master uses - thankfully rarely as nowadays I rarely merit punishment. It is also something he also produces when he feels like tormenting me. It always works.

And don't even get me started on movies of The Secretary or The Pet. Again there are elements that are good but the majority is insane, going from zero to slave in such a short time, and the obvious lacking of social ability and mental stability in the Masters?!

I don't mind the use of fantasy in BDSM literature or film but if it is being advertised as realistic then it should be - fantasy is fine as long as it is made clear that it is just that.

Of course, this is all just my personal opinion and there may be many who think that they are great and that is just as it should be. We are all different and have different experiences and opinions.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Sorry if I annoy you but..reading The Story of O is what made me finally make that leap from fantasizing about submission to real life D/s. I didn't think it was in any way a realistic portrayal of what D/s or M/s was like but, after living a mostly sheltered vanilla life for 40ish years it was as if it in some way legitamisized (sp) these naughty dark fantasies I've had ever since my childhood. The man who is now my PYL asked me to read it just to see what my reaction would be. It completely turned me on. But it never entered my mind that it was reality.

I enjoyed the Ann Rice books also. I read them right after becoming collared. I like fantasy books anyway so I thought they were fun. A book doesn't have to be realistic to get my pussy wet.

LOL, I'm so with you. I am not about to go and buy a book of fiction based on any particlar subject or period of time if it is something I want to learn more about realisitically...I buy and read fiction for relaxation and enjoyment. Sure some writers I read (and some I don't) do a mountain of research, but in no way am I going to recommend someone who wants to study law go and get some John Grisham books and start studying...it is fiction (except for the couple he has written which were factual)...same as I wouldn't recommend a history major go read Colleen McCullough's Roman series of books as a reference and learning point even though I know she always does a humungeous amount of research and is academically brilliant herself....it is fiction, based on a period of history, not an academic reference. As to Anne Rice, I wouldn't be surprised given some of the things I have read about her, interviews I have read etc., to find she has even dabbled (or more) in this lifestyle, but that in no way obligates her to make her writing more like a BDSM manual than fiction, anymore than I expect her to produce vampires to legitimise her Vampire Chronicles as worth reading and believeable...it is fiction.

Believe it or not, even though we might believe in keeping things all nice SSC, there are people out there who do have BDSM leanings, who just may have other contributiong factors in their personality and/or psyche which lead them to overstep our boundaries and commit non-consensual torture and /or murder...it isn't ideal, but it happens...there are als some who live the lifestyle who go where some of us are not willing to go....to then expect fiction writers to refuse to write anything which might portray such a situation is more unrealistic than expecting them to write fiction which has to be 100% believeable, ethical in real life and possibly factual....it is fiction....if a person can't separate the 2, I do not believe it is up to authors worldwide to censor their writing in response. Let's face it, no matter how they censored it, someone would whine it wasn't right for one reason or another. The dilemma is simple....you want to read facts and realism, stick to non-fiction...you want to read fictional stories, go for fiction...that in essence is why we have a choice of both reading bases.

Catalina

 

[FurryFury]

We also find enjoyable certain things and repugnant certain other things fictional or not.

 

[CutieMouse]

My only annoyance are people who read something like The Story of O and think that's BDSM... as in "I read The Story of O and I just know I'm a submissive/slave/Master/Dom..." then proceed to be disappointed when confronted with the less sexy aspect of things.

Sorry if I annoy you but..reading The Story of O is what made me finally make that leap from fantasizing about submission to real life D/s. I didn't think it was in any way a realistic portrayal of what D/s or M/s was like but, after living a mostly sheltered vanilla life for 40ish years it was as if it in some way legitamisized (sp) these naughty dark fantasies I've had ever since my childhood. The man who is now my PYL asked me to read it just to see what my reaction would be. It completely turned me on. But it never entered my mind that it was reality.

I enjoyed the Ann Rice books also. I read them right after becoming collared. I like fantasy books anyway so I thought they were fun. A book doesn't have to be realistic to get my pussy wet.

Then you aren't the kind of person I'm talking about. I don't have an issue with people reading a work of fiction and having an "A-ha!" moment; it's those who read Sleeping Beauty or O and think that's* BDSM (escapism, anyone?) that annoy me. 'Cause I'm guessing you didn't read O and revamp your entire wardrobe, take a month + off work to get trained in a secret location, etc...



*And yes, Cat, I know there are those who really do the woowoo, 24/7, blahblahblah stuff.

 

[chelleb]

For what it's worth, I thought I'd throw in my opinion too.

I've seen The Story of O, and read the Beauty series, like I suspect most have. I read/saw them after reading online a lot about BDSM and wondered how they portrayed it. I soon realized, they weren't real-life accounts of the lifestyle (at least not how I see it), but they were entertaining to see/read.

Though, I didn't make it through all three books of the Beauty series. I lost interest about half way through the last book, and have no desire to pick it back up.

 

[Zoots_owner]

I suspect Anne Rice and most mainstream authors that dabble in BDSM lit have NO idea what it's all about. For them, I suspect it's just an interesting idea they can't quite wrap thier heads around.

After talking to my girl about what bothered her most about that series, I agree. She sort of took it for granted that owners were going to be treated as brutally sadistic sociopaths who must be direct descendants of Vlad the Impaler, so that didn't get to her too much. But she said that the culture of slaves in those books ruined it for her. She said that their most fervent desire was to lose their individuality, to completely commoditize themselves, and she thought that was pathetic. She feels that without her individuality, she'd be much less valuable. Not all may feel that way, but personally, I agree with her completely.

 

[Netzach]

I just don't get turned on by things that break out of the credible so far and wide usually. It has nothing to do with morality or anything like that, it's just a personal preference for what I like to read. So while Mr. Benson is a somewhat silly and improbable reflection of seventies NYC, it still does more for me than the secret chateaux to which I cannot attach much romantic connection, as they're just too out there.

 

[Homburg]

s for calling people names such as 'slut'...might not be some people's cup of tea, but for others it works well...does that mean they are warped or not 'real' BDSM? I don't think so, just people need to once again be adult and broad minded enough to appreciate what works for them may not work for others and vice versa, nor is this a one size fits all lifestyle. Slut is a quite common word around here from both sides of the whip, though not always in complete seriousness.

The comment I made had no value judgement attached to the word. It was entirely to do with the lack of creativity on the part of so many writers of BDSM fanfic.

 

[Katiecat]

Fantasy is...fantasy. I think it's okay as long as the reader understands that the depiction is not realistic. I would be most concerned about someone who has no BDSM experience, is curious and looking for guidance, and reads a fantasy depiction thinking that's the way it works in real life. Then again, reading fiction is fun and primes the libido, but probably isn't the best place to do research and get straight up facts

Like...rape scenes. Fantasy rape can be sexy, exciting, the aggressor can win over the heart and body of the victim, the non-consent aspect is really just a head trip that allows the "victim" to be absolved of guilt, they have no responsibility for the ravishment that ensues. Good time was had by all. REAL rape, obviously, is nothing like that at all. It's an assault, a crime of violence, and has nothing to do with sex or desire, the victim is being forced against their will, and no, they don't "come around" and start enjoying themselves, they don't fall passionately in love with the rapist.

Most of my BDSM or D/s stories are fluffy fantasy pieces, but I strive to make sure there are no dangerous or just plain stupid activities that would cause any real, permanent, or serious damage to any of the parties involved -- ie, spank until pink, not black and blue. Hopefully people use common sense when the read scenes like that -- and kids, don't try this at home! But reading stuff like that (like the Sleeping Beauty series, or O) just doesn't float my boat, personally. How can a guy be expected to keep an erection for 24/7 when the TV ads say if your boner lasts more than 4 hours to get to an emergency room?

 

[SpectreT]

Suspension of disbelief is one thing - suspending it by its thumbs overnight ends in dislocated thumbs, at the very least.

On specific topics - I liked The Secretary. Like most American movies, it told its story too quickly and ham-handedly, but it was a good, fun movie, and I could actually relate to the characters' emotions, even as time-condensed and melodramatic as they were.

O and Beauty - no chance in hell I'll ever read or watch. Seen too many criticisms of just how big a mountain of BS is contained in each, from the alphabet sex crowd and the 'nilla crowd, to ever want to subject myself to that kinda rubbish.

 

[Netzach]

Fantasy is...fantasy. I think it's okay as long as the reader understands that the depiction is not realistic. I would be most concerned about someone who has no BDSM experience, is curious and looking for guidance, and reads a fantasy depiction thinking that's the way it works in real life. Then again, reading fiction is fun and primes the libido, but probably isn't the best place to do research and get straight up facts

Like...rape scenes. Fantasy rape can be sexy, exciting, the aggressor can win over the heart and body of the victim, the non-consent aspect is really just a head trip that allows the "victim" to be absolved of guilt, they have no responsibility for the ravishment that ensues. Good time was had by all. REAL rape, obviously, is nothing like that at all. It's an assault, a crime of violence, and has nothing to do with sex or desire, the victim is being forced against their will, and no, they don't "come around" and start enjoying themselves, they don't fall passionately in love with the rapist.

Most of my BDSM or D/s stories are fluffy fantasy pieces, but I strive to make sure there are no dangerous or just plain stupid activities that would cause any real, permanent, or serious damage to any of the parties involved -- ie, spank until pink, not black and blue. Hopefully people use common sense when the read scenes like that -- and kids, don't try this at home! But reading stuff like that (like the Sleeping Beauty series, or O) just doesn't float my boat, personally. How can a guy be expected to keep an erection for 24/7 when the TV ads say if your boner lasts more than 4 hours to get to an emergency room?

I've been spanked quite black and blue. And here I am to tell the tale and do it to other people.