Barack Obama is lying about not being friends with Bill Ayers...

[Ishmael]

The North Vietnamese were not my enemies. Republicans are.

BTW, I do not "condone" the bombing of Republicans. I do think the War in Vietnam was immoral.

Let's see here. You feel a war that was escalated mightily by two successive democrat administrations, and then ended by a republcan administration was immoral. But then somehow, logically extrapolate, that republicans are your enemy.

One is left to conclude that you're angry at Nixon, and consequently all repubilcans, for ending a war that you felt was immoral to begin with. Which I find to be a pretty strange position to take.

I could easily extrapolate from that that you're actually angry at the US and the Vietnam war was a palpable manifestation of the immorality of the nation as a whole and that Nixons ending of the conflict deprived you of focus for your righteous indignation. Afterall, you can't keep all that inner rage bottled up and you conveniently turned that anger towards an entity that deprived you of your initial outlet.

Clinical types could have a ball with your rationalizations.

Ishmael

 

[Oliver Clozoff]

Cheer up, AJ.

Even if the public doesn't care about Ayers, you still have the fact that the guys who discovered HIV won the Nobel in medicine this year.

Don't lose hope. Maybe you can try the "Barack Hussein Obama" thing again. You've got 4 weeks left!

 

[Sean]

Cheer up, AJ.

Even if the public doesn't care about Ayers, you still have the fact that the guys who discovered HIV won the Nobel in medicine this year.

LOL, I heard that on the radio and immediately thought of A_J. Too funny.

 

[RobDownSouth]

I could easily extrapolate from that that you're actually angry at the US <snip>

Of course YOU could.

 

[ksmybuttons]

McCain has you by the ring in your nose, doesn't he?

I'm sure you are going to use his middle name, too.

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

All sorts of people win the Nobel for all sorts of reasons Ollie, oftentimes to make political statements.

To be honest, I don't care if anyone cares about Ayers, because, as I can plainly see, no one does, and it's especially nice that they take the time, in this world of real, burning issues, like how Republcans wrecked the economy, to drop in and specifically tell me why they don't care because the why is the tell.

I have additionally discovered that no one really wants to talk about WHO crashed the banks, just whom crashed the banks, a small, but very important difference. When they last crashed the Democrats* didn't give a shit about whom, but who, and that's why Ken Lay is in jail and Tim Raines is not (white Republican v. black Democrat).

To be honest, I don't care when they keep telling me, four more years, in four more years, we'll have a vaccine, bacause that makes me look like an idiot, not the expert...

They all recently threw the last four-year plan over-board, but this time, this time, they're going to get it right. I'm sticking with my contentions, my reason over the mob mentality. Plese feel free to stick with yours.



*Just like they got it right with Bush on the bailout and in picking their candidate.

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

McCain has you by the ring in your nose, doesn't he?

I'm sure you are going to use his middle name, too.

I'm voting for Bob Barr. I don't trust McCain's decision-making loop.

That doesn't make me a fan of Obama.

Search this thread and tell me where I used anybody's middle name.

 

[unregistered]

 

[Lancecastor]

My only question is, is it just too boring to show all the financial links, group ties and common agendas between these two?

Yes, no need.

He's a Chicago politician.

That should be enough proof.

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

Of course he didn't...





Annenberg, is that how you spell it Ollie?

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

Yes, no need.

He's a Chicago politician.

That should be enough proof.

Fucking Canuck! You know you can't say that in America, that's RACIST!

 

[The_Trouvere]

The popularity of Ho Chi Minh

Let's see here. You feel a war that was escalated mightily by two successive democrat administrations, and then ended by a republcan administration was immoral. But then somehow, logically extrapolate, that republicans are your enemy.

The Geneva Agreement of 1954 ended the war between France and the Viet Minh, and scheduled elections to be held in 1956 to unify Vietnam. Those elections were not held because the United States did not sign, and did not honor the Geneva Agreement of 1954.

In his memoirs, Mandate for Change President Eisenhower explained his decision to prevent the elections: “I have never talked or corresponded with a person knowledgeable in Indochinese affairs who did not agree that had elections been held as of the time of the fighting, possibly 80 per cent of the population would have voted for the Communist Ho Chi Minh as their leader.”

When Eisenhower made the decision to support Ngo Dinh Diem, he guaranteed that there would be a war in Vietnam during the 1060’s. The War in Vietnam happened because the United States stole an election.

Presidents John Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson should not have increased military support for the South Vietnamese government. Nevertheless, by the time each man became president the choice was escalate, or lose a war. Democrats then as now were afraid of looking “weak on defense.”

Eisenhower made a decision that did not harm him, but it destroyed the presidency of Johnson.

The War in Vietnam provoked Bill Ayers and others to behave in ways that were politically foolish, but the United States deserved to lose that war.

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

Hey, they lookin' back!
They lookin' back, too many people lookin' back...





While you're rummaging in the attic, maybe you can find something out about El Mariachi...

Did Obama pressure his friend's bank to make the loans that collapsed it?

She walked away rich too. Everyone around Obama walks,

'Cept Rezko, unless he talks, but now, no one's in any itching hurry to hear what he has to say, that, they want to let lie until well after the election and the guy has a chance to purchace a pardon with silence...

 

[unregistered]

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

OH! Look!





Now ACORN has legal problems in Jackson county (KCMO) with breaking the law...

 

[Ishmael]

The Geneva Agreement of 1954 ended the war between France and the Viet Minh, and scheduled elections to be held in 1956 to unify Vietnam. Those elections were not held because the United States did not sign, and did not honor the Geneva Agreement of 1954.

In his memoirs, Mandate for Change President Eisenhower explained his decision to prevent the elections: “I have never talked or corresponded with a person knowledgeable in Indochinese affairs who did not agree that had elections been held as of the time of the fighting, possibly 80 per cent of the population would have voted for the Communist Ho Chi Minh as their leader.”

When Eisenhower made the decision to support Ngo Dinh Diem, he guaranteed that there would be a war in Vietnam during the 1060’s. The War in Vietnam happened because the United States stole an election.

Presidents John Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson should not have increased military support for the South Vietnamese government. Nevertheless, by the time each man became president the choice was escalate, or lose a war. Democrats then as now were afraid of looking “weak on defense.”

Eisenhower made a decision that did not harm him, but it destroyed the presidency of Johnson.

Ahhhhh, the US did not honor an agreement it wasn't a party to. Well, there ya go, proof positive. Evil, evil United States. But the US just wouldn't be evil if it weren't for those pesky republicans. JFK and LBJ were blackmailed into that escalation.

You really are sorta fucked up.

Ishmael

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

That's bullshit! LBJ, his fucked up whiz kids, and Democrat cowardice brought down his presidency and ultimately lost the war.

It's the same damned strategy they had in place for Iraq.

Same damned plan Obama has on everything, turn it over to the elite, leftist intellectual class; I could see Bill Ayers easily as secretary of education, those kinds of people respect him that much...

 

[The_Trouvere]

That's bullshit! LBJ, his fucked up whiz kids, and Democrat cowardice brought down his presidency and ultimately lost the war.

You have not explained why it was justified for the United States to devastate Vietnam and kill two million Vietnamese in order to prevent the ascension of a government 80% of the Vietnamese wanted.

What is more, your adolescent vulgarity is neither intimidating, nor in any positive sort of way is it impressive.

 

[The_Trouvere]

Ahhhhh, the US did not honor an agreement it wasn't a party to. Well, there ya go, proof positive. Evil, evil United States. But the US just wouldn't be evil if it weren't for those pesky republicans. JFK and LBJ were blackmailed into that escalation.

You really are sorta fucked up.

Ishmael

The War in Vietnam was immoral because the vast majority of the Vietnamese supported the Communists. Don't argue with me about that. Argue with President Dwight Eisenhower.

 

[unregistered]

 

[unregistered]

 

[The_Trouvere]

Drop dead...by the numbers...how many god damn years did you spend there? Fuck off...read another book.

More adolescent vulgarity.

Were you in Vietnam? Did the South Vietnames peasants appreciate your presence? Why were there so many enemy villages over there? When the United States invaded France in World War II there were no enemy villiages. There were not even enemy villages in Italy, although Italy had recently been an Axis country.

Instead of acting like a high school bully, explain the statement by President Eisenhower that I quoted. Were you even aware of that quote? Were you even aware of the Geneva Agreement of 1954?

 

[hogjack]

Cap’n AMatrixca and busybody are racing to see who will throw a clot on November 4, 2008.

Gotta go with Cap’n AMatrixca on this one.
The "Libertarian" wannabe has 9-1-1 on speed dial.

 

[unregistered]

 

[The_Trouvere]

I spent three years there the hard way. I know a lot about Vietnam but I don't have the time or inclination to re-educate you or prove the negatives of the false premises of your post. I will say this, the answer to the second question is for the most part yes. The enemy of course didn't appreciate our presence there. An indicator of American popularity among the Vietnamese people can be seen in the hundreds of thousands who voted with their feet and made their way here to live among us in freedom.

I suspect you only know what you've read, you have no real practical experience with the Vietnam War or it's people. Oh, and just so you know. I don't give a damn what Eisenhower said, I know what he told the French when they asked for combat air strikes to rescue beleaguered French forces at Dien Bien Phu. His answer was "no"

Eisenhower made the right decision about Dien Bien Phu. He made the wrong decision when he refused to sign the Geneva Agreement of 1954.

The boat people were from the 20% who would have voted against Ho Chi Minh in 1956. If the United States had any sense of honor it would have evacuated them. It also would have protected them when the Thai pirates attacked them in the ocean.

A Marine sergeant who served two tours of duty in Vietnam told me, "Whenever we went into the boondocks Charlie knew we were coming. He knew how we were coming. He knew how many of us were coming." That would not have been possible unless the South Vietnamese government was riddled with informers. That in turn would not have happened unless a high percentage of those living in South Vietnam supported the Communists.

One of the boat people was my girl friend for a number of years. She was born in Hanoi, and fled south with her family after Vietnam was divided. She told me most of the South Vietnamese peasants supported the Communists because they hated what the Americans were doing to their country.