Devotion

[BiBunny]

Let's talk about devotion for a minute, shall we?

Pretty much all people have some level of it, outside of maybe sociopaths. But some people/things inspire us to greater-than-average levels, be they Dom/mes, subs, switches, 'nilla SOs, children, or even our (non-human) pets.

It's really easy for someone to say, "Oh, I'd follow you to the ends of the earth" or some such. How often do we really mean it, though? How many people really would drop everything to run for the right person?

I have several questions I'd like to see discussed, but I'm not entirely sure how to tie them all together in a coherent way. I'll just take the cop-out way and list them here, and y'all can pick and choose what you'd like to answer. I may be able to articulate better once I see some responses.

1.) Where is the line drawn between devotion and stupidity? It obviously varies amongst people, but some folks are capable of being devoted to the point of what others WOULD consider stupidity or, at least, a lack of common sense. Barring things like "Would you kill someone if your Master/Mistress told you to?", where does it stop being devotion and start being foolishness? And does it really matter if the person is happy more often than not?

2.) What have you sacrificed in the name of devotion and/or love, and was it worth it for you? Would you go back and do it over?

3.) Is there a point where devotion becomes meaningless? Like, is it possible for someone to be so devoted to you that you finally just say, "Ok, fuck it, I get it. You're devoted. Now go away."

Anything else anyone would like to bring up as discussion fodder, feel free.

 

[ecstaticsub]

For now I'll pick question number 2 --

Three years after I was married I was finally living in the city where I had wanted to live my whole life, I had an amazing job, and had the love of my life at my side.

Then he decided he wanted to join the miilitary. We discussed it and I agrred. He has been in for almost 20 years now. We have lived in 8 states and one other country. Every where we go to I get a new job. Get the kids set up in a new school, set up a household somewhere new. I have seen him off on 3 deployments to hostile regions and many other 3-6 month separations for schools etc. So in a way I have followed him to the ends of the earth. (or at least stayed home waiting while he has gone)

I have given up my career, the opportunity to call any place "home", friends, living near family and a employer matched retirement fund

Yes, I would do it all over again. I don't know if it is devotion, it is simply love and committment. I can't imagine my life without him.

Which is also why I stay with him even though he doesn't have a Dominant bone in his body. I love him more then I need to be submissive to him. I am so grateful that he lets me have my relationship with my PYL--which is a sacrifice he has made because he loves me.

 

[intothewoods]

For now I'll pick question number 2 --

Three years after I was married I was finally living in the city where I had wanted to live my whole life, I had an amazing job, and had the love of my life at my side.

Then he decided he wanted to join the miilitary. We discussed it and I agrred. He has been in for almost 20 years now. We have lived in 8 states and one other country. Every where we go to I get a new job. Get the kids set up in a new school, set up a household somewhere new. I have seen him off on 3 deployments to hostile regions and many other 3-6 month separations for schools etc. So in a way I have followed him to the ends of the earth. (or at least stayed home waiting while he has gone)

I have given up my career, the opportunity to call any place "home", friends, living near family and a employer matched retirement fund

Yes, I would do it all over again. I don't know if it is devotion, it is simply love and committment. I can't imagine my life without him.

Which is also why I stay with him even though he doesn't have a Dominant bone in his body. I love him more then I need to be submissive to him. I am so grateful that he lets me have my relationship with my PYL--which is a sacrifice he has made because he loves me.

Damn. I can't beat that! That's serious devotion. I feel like true devotion comes during not so much the tough times, although those too, but also the plain ol' boring times. Devotion isn't jumping through hoops. I can jump through plenty of hoops. It's coming back again, talking, reconnecting, whatever, when it would be easy to walk away.

I don't know how devoted I really am. I don't have any great stories. I worry about it, actually. But anyway, I definitely don't think of devotion in terms of big leaps and bounds. That's easy. It feels romantic, passionate, dramatic, exciting. When all that calms down and you still clean out the cat litter box for someone (still my fave example courtesy of Netzach), or move your family for the fifth time like ecstatic sub, that's devotion.

 

[Daddy2mylilgirl]

1.) Where is the line drawn between devotion and stupidity? It obviously varies amongst people, but some folks are capable of being devoted to the point of what others WOULD consider stupidity or, at least, a lack of common sense. Barring things like "Would you kill someone if your Master/Mistress told you to?", where does it stop being devotion and start being foolishness? And does it really matter if the person is happy more often than not?

I believe real devotion won't ever lead to stupidity or poor decisions. I think when poor decisions are made, they are made from insecurities on both the Dom and sub's side.

I'm not saying devotion can't lead to bad decisions but I think more often than not those claiming "devotion" as their reason for doing something others might consider a poor decision are just using it as a way to justify an insecurity.

My little girl is no doubt devoted to me, but I would never ask her or expect her to drop out of school and severely damage her relationship with her parents just to be with me.

I want to be with her and she wants to be with me, but we both know that is a bad decision to make for both of us.

2.) What have you sacrificed in the name of devotion and/or love, and was it worth it for you? Would you go back and do it over?

I have not really made any yet. But when my little girl is done with school I would have no problem leaving my friends and family and moving to where she lives to be with her.

My little girl has had to put up with all kinds of crap for being with me. But I'm pretty sure she doesn't regret the decision to be with me.

3.) Is there a point where devotion becomes meaningless? Like, is it possible for someone to be so devoted to you that you finally just say, "Ok, fuck it, I get it. You're devoted. Now go away."

Again I think real devotion never gets meaningless only the kind I described in my answer the the first question.

I always love the little things my little girl does to make me happy. I always make sure to thank her and to let her know I appreciate it, no matter how small it was.

I think if devotion ever gets to a point where it becomes meaningless then the relationship probably has become meaningless too.

 

[CutieMouse]

1.) Where is the line drawn between devotion and stupidity? It obviously varies amongst people, but some folks are capable of being devoted to the point of what others WOULD consider stupidity or, at least, a lack of common sense. Barring things like "Would you kill someone if your Master/Mistress told you to?", where does it stop being devotion and start being foolishness? And does it really matter if the person is happy more often than not?

When I find it, I'll let you know.

Says the woman who stayed married for far far far too long (12 years) and in a LDR far far too long (3½ years) out of devotion [stubbornness].

2.) What have you sacrificed in the name of devotion and/or love, and was it worth it for you?

Short answer - a lot; yes and no.

Long answer - a lot; yes and no.

Would you go back and do it over?

BTDT.

Not again. Period.

I love the degree of heartfelt devotion and loyalty I'm capable of; I consider it one of my greatest strengths, and it pisses me off to not be in that place anymore. Right now I don't think I'm really capable of that degree of loyalty anymore, but I know I will be again, with time.

3.) Is there a point where devotion becomes meaningless? Like, is it possible for someone to be so devoted to you that you finally just say, "Ok, fuck it, I get it. You're devoted. Now go away."

Anything else anyone would like to bring up as discussion fodder, feel free.

For me the point at which devotion became meaningless was the point at which I sat back and realized out of a laundry list of expectations met to the best of my ability (a lot of which came from a place of love and devotion, more so than interest or desire), the response was nitpicking about not measuring up. I'm not sure I ever faced the "I get it. You're devoted. Go away." thing.



*wry chuckle*

ETA - I should probably note I'm still in the "grumpy" post-relationship phase here...

 

[Caitlynne]

1.) Where is the line drawn between devotion and stupidity? It obviously varies amongst people, but some folks are capable of being devoted to the point of what others WOULD consider stupidity or, at least, a lack of common sense. Barring things like "Would you kill someone if your Master/Mistress told you to?", where does it stop being devotion and start being foolishness? And does it really matter if the person is happy more often than not?

No, I don't think it does matter if they are more happy than not. Devotion should bring happiness if it's really devotion that comes from the individuals heart of hearts. It might look and feel stupid to on-lookers, but it's not about on-lookers now is it. What is too far to one, might be a walk in the park to another. The line between devotion and stupidity has to be drawn by each individual. He or she is the only one that can determine when the line is crossed.

2.) What have you sacrificed in the name of devotion and/or love, and was it worth it for you? Would you go back and do it over?

I don't want to get into specifics, but I can say, I've sacrificed and it was worth it. Even when it ended badly, I did not regret what I did. I gave and I never felt the fool because I gave. I consider these things to be my strengths. The fact that it didn't work out does not matter to me with regards to my own devotion or sacrifice. It's mine. I made the choice to give it. I own that decision. I had good reasons for doing it, and I made the choice knowing that the sacrifice wasn't some guarantee of happiness ever after.

3.) Is there a point where devotion becomes meaningless? Like, is it possible for someone to be so devoted to you that you finally just say, "Ok, fuck it, I get it. You're devoted. Now go away."

Can't answer this one, it's more a PYL question. Although it's never happened to me on the flip side. My devotion has not been rejected because it was "old hat" or boring. When things didn't work out, it was for other reasons. But then, I tend to chose mates that want the level of devotion I give. I mean I'm not usually attracted to someone that is bored by such things. [If that makes sense]

To be honest, it takes a lot of time to bring out the kind of blind devotion that I can get to. It doesn't happen over night or after the third date. It's something that grows as trust and everything else grows. So, by the time I get to a certain place of devotion, it's been encouraged by a PYL. It's more of a process with me, and I know myself and know what I need. I'm not likely to fall for someone who doesn't become hard [figuratively or literally] at the sight of sincere devotion and sacrifice.

 

[cherokee_dove]

1.) Where is the line drawn between devotion and stupidity? It obviously varies amongst people, but some folks are capable of being devoted to the point of what others WOULD consider stupidity or, at least, a lack of common sense. Barring things like "Would you kill someone if your Master/Mistress told you to?", where does it stop being devotion and start being foolishness? And does it really matter if the person is happy more often than not?

To me, devotion is varied. When Master and i were together, i would do whatever he said or asked. But i would not ever consider killing someone if he had told me to.

With my children, yes; i would go to prison for murder to protect them.

2.) What have you sacrificed in the name of devotion and/or love, and was it worth it for you? Would you go back and do it over?

i sacrificed my marriage for the sake of my children. And yes, it was worth it; because they no longer suffer the abuse from him.

Would i go back and do it again? Hell Yes i would. Nobody fucks with my children in any way, shape or form; and gets away with it.

i have sacrificed a few relationships because of my children. It hurt at the time, but was still worth it because it was either them or my children.

Go back to those individual relationships again, no. They aren't worth it.

3.) Is there a point where devotion becomes meaningless? Like, is it possible for someone to be so devoted to you that you finally just say, "Ok, fuck it, I get it. You're devoted. Now go away."

My devotion to Master was never shunned by him. He loved the fact i cared so deeply that i would do almost anything (except murder) just because he asked.

My children love my devotion, because they know that mommy is always there when they need me; for any reason.

 

[PertPerth]

I agree with BiBunny that it occurs in most of our relationships - close friends, partners, children and pets. (My cat's Vet often jokes about the "healthy codependence" my cat and I have!) But there is a line between a healthy devotion to someone, compared to an unhealthy codependence. One is constructive - the other can be destructive.

I see devotion as doing something for someone who would do the same for you and stupidity as knowlingly let your self be used up. (Sometimes we need a friend or loved one to point out the difference to us )

Being a sub doesn't automatically mean that you're going to go to the extreme of letting yourself be used up and/or make stupid decisions. Nor do I think that being a Dom means that you're going to neglect your sub.

As for what I have sacrificed - the biggest one I can think of right now is that I turned down a job overseas to stay close to my Dad. He's ill and I was torn - so I asked him straight out. He said he'd prefer me to stay, so I have. I don't regret it as I know I will be able to move overseas later. Some people tell me I shouldn't "stop living" because of my Dad being ill. Personally, I think I was looking for an excuse not to leave him. My Dad is one of the few people I trust completely and enjoy spending time with, so no regrets.

 

[madetotakeit]

1.) Where is the line drawn between devotion and stupidity? It obviously varies amongst people, but some folks are capable of being devoted to the point of what others WOULD consider stupidity or, at least, a lack of common sense. Barring things like "Would you kill someone if your Master/Mistress told you to?", where does it stop being devotion and start being foolishness? And does it really matter if the person is happy more often than not?

To me it is when whatever is being done to show devotion becomes detrimental. As long it is positive for both parties I don't think it is foolish. It also steps over the lines into foolishness and sometimes outright stupidity when that devotion is not appreciated.

2.) What have you sacrificed in the name of devotion and/or love, and was it worth it for you? Would you go back and do it over?

In some instances, yes, and in some instances, no.

I stayed with someone out of love and devotion working through instances of cheating, money trouble, just growing up in general. I also waited years for him at one period. In the end we grew into different people. But I stayed devoted until that time came.

I would repeat every step.

In another case I took on his problems. I tried to help him when he wasn't willing to help himself. I ended up knowing more about his condition than he did. I left when it reached the point of him having cost me my home, my car, damaged relations with my family, and my job. I moved to another state for fear of my safety. It took the physical threat to make me face it.

I would not do any of that again.

Of course had I not gone through that I would not be where I am today. I'm in a good position and understand myself better than I ever could.

3.) Is there a point where devotion becomes meaningless? Like, is it possible for someone to be so devoted to you that you finally just say, "Ok, fuck it, I get it. You're devoted. Now go away."

Strictly in a vanilla sense. I can't say I have ever had that reaction. The devotion of those I have grown tired of had nothing to do with it. It was just a symptom. It was everything else that made us incompatible that made me say that.

On the flip side, I have never been told that either. I have had my devotion under-appreciated at times and over-appreciated at others. I have never been told that my devotion is too much though.

 

[twysted73]

In today's day and age, the old "Romeo & Juliet - I'll Die For You" scene is a bit far fetched and assanine.
(Yes, I spelled it that way on purpose)

Other than being loving, caring, faithful, honest and consistant in all 4 of those things, not many "sane" options are left open.

Some submissives will go so far as to surrender their safewords feeling comfortable enough and connected enough to their Dominants to do so.

Some would consider this insane, other endearing.

Personally, my most extreme show of devotion to date was to take part in defrauding the state and, quite possibly, the IRS (it'll catch up with me eventually I'm sure) to help someone I loved very much in dire need get out of the deplorable conditions they lived in for a better life for herself and her pre-teen daughters.


I did think about it for 24 hours before agreeing. So it wasn't hasty.
I considered the consequences and took action.
In this life (I do feel we have others) I wished to be a certain way and to make a certain statement.
Funny......after I had done so, I started planning what I'd do to the first guy I saw in the penetentary exercise yard to start my rep.
As sure as death is inevitable, I felt comfortable making this move.
It's about as close as one could come to "I will die for you" by potentially giving up years of my life repaying my debt to society.

I think my actions fall into the "stupid" category if she'd not be waiting for me when I got out.

C'est la vie.

 

[Homburg]

1.) Where is the line drawn between devotion and stupidity? It obviously varies amongst people, but some folks are capable of being devoted to the point of what others WOULD consider stupidity or, at least, a lack of common sense. Barring things like "Would you kill someone if your Master/Mistress told you to?", where does it stop being devotion and start being foolishness? And does it really matter if the person is happy more often than not?

When your devotion causes you to die inside, it is devotion gone bad. You've seen that person. Perhaps not dead inside from devotion, but dead inside nonetheless. Devotion to the wrong person can do that to you.

As to being happy more often than not, yes, it matters. It may not be the final reason to cease being devoted, but it matters. All that hooey about blind devotion through eternal suffering is just that - hooey. If you find yourself more miserable than happy, it is time to ask yourself hard questions about the worth of the person you are devoted to. Those hard questions may be met with answers that cause you to remain devoted, but it is a worthwhile check nonehtheless.

2.) What have you sacrificed in the name of devotion and/or love, and was it worth it for you? Would you go back and do it over?

Much. Yes. And yes. I live my life so as to not have meaningful regrets. As a result, I can answer those sorts of questions confidently. I would do the same thing over again. I would make the same decisions over again, heartache and all.

You learn more from your failures than you do your successes, and I would not be who I am today without the lessons I've learned.

3.) Is there a point where devotion becomes meaningless? Like, is it possible for someone to be so devoted to you that you finally just say, "Ok, fuck it, I get it. You're devoted. Now go away."

Sure. I would probably not respect the person that made such a decision, but I can see it. There are some for whom this lifestyle is all about pushing boundaries. When they reach that last boundary, what remains?

Devotion, in many ways, is core to my experience in both the lifestyle and relationships in general. Once I see that devotion has faltered, that the person has failed to be devoted, I have deep trouble seeing them the same way again. Yes, that person can be devoted to others, certainly, but when they fail to be devoted to me, things change.

The devotion does not have to be utter. As BB mentioned, you can be devoted to friends, but it is still the same thing. My best friend of over fifteen years really betrayed my trust about a year ago. We're still friends, but damned if I trust him the same way as before. The relationship is more distant, and that's just life. I don't harbour ill feelings towards him, he's a good friend, but I'll never see him quite the same way again. The same goes for more intimate relationships.

Devotion can also go too far. Again, to use the friend example, you can have a friend that is too devoted to you, too interested, too willing to do whatever it takes. That can just flat get creepy. It becomes less a matter of devotion in those cases and more a matter of emotional content going weird.

Personally, I cannot imagine having a slave that is too devoted to me. I cannot grok a situation in an M/s relationship where there is such a thing as too much devotion. Sure, there could be unhealthy emotions and thoughts attached to excessive devotion, as in the example above, but the devotion itself can be boundless. That said, I'm not the sort whose greatest glee comes from pushing, prodding, and testing. I simply want good, devoted service. Different folks, different strokes.

Go outside of an M/s relationship and I can see it. I would not want quite- that level of devotion in a D/s relationship.

 

[ataxia.girl]

I have not really made any yet. But when my little girl is done with school I would have no problem leaving my friends and family and moving to where she lives to be with her.

But what if you did ask her and what if she did? Would that mean she was stupid?

i have did stupid things out of devotion. i don't regret all of them now because most were out of a real place of devotion. i do regret the ones where i mistakenly thought it was devotion for z when it was really still residual devotion for y.

While that is recent history thinking back to many years ago i do not regret the year i quit school and followed my first love around. It changed both of our lives. We affected each other and would not be the people we are today if i had chosen to stay at school and be "responsible". i do not regret one single thing i did for that boy. He needed to know there was a girl who loved him that much and i needed to be that girl.

 

[ataxia.girl]

I love the degree of heartfelt devotion and loyalty I'm capable of; I consider it one of my greatest strengths, and it pisses me off to not be in that place anymore. Right now I don't think I'm really capable of that degree of loyalty anymore, but I know I will be again, with time.

i am struggling with this. Its hard for me not to chase the state of devotion which is fundamentally NOT devotion. i wonder also if i am really capable of it at this moment. i desire it but the gift is false until i can let go of the last person who had that from me and so far he is still wedged in tight.

 

[catalina_francisco]

In today's day and age, the old "Romeo & Juliet - I'll Die For You" scene is a bit far fetched and assanine.
(Yes, I spelled it that way on purpose)

LOL, it's sad you feel that way as there are many examples of people who have died to save their loved one/s and been fully aware of what they were doing and why, so while it appears far fetched for you, that is not so for everyone.

I'll try to get back to the thread later when time permits more full attention.

Catalina

 

[castagnus]

For now I'll pick question number 2 --
Yes, I would do it all over again. I don't know if it is devotion, it is simply love and committment. I can't imagine my life without him.

How noble and inspiring ! And how I envy you. I am not sure what I miss most, having someone totally devoted to me or being utterly devoted to someone - probably both.

I was in such a relationship for 8 years - a monogamous relationship with my much younger wife in whose eyes I could do no wrong. Early in our relationship I introduced her to the world of BDSM which she eagerly embraced - and in an incredible act of devotion announced that the pain of giving birth to our baby would be her gift to me. She insisted I deliver our child which I did during a beautiful, natural birth (with our doctor standing behind me). After I wiped our son clean I handed a healthy boy to a radiant woman and he went straight to breast - the following few years were the happiest of my life.
A few years ago she met a younger man and divorced me - however, I won primary custody of our son who daily brings me incredible joy. He is a kind, cheerful, energetic boy; we are devoted to each other and I work diligently to provide him the guidance to augment his natural traits of courage, curiosity, chilvary and love of science.

But I do miss a woman's devotion and the urge to be devoted to her.

 

[the captians wench]

I have been called overly devoted, but I like how some one put it to me and said I have "miss placed devotion".

My problem is that I tend to be devoted to everything and it wears me out. I am overly devoted to my job. I work 9-12 hour days (some times more) and I'm always on call, I do work at home, I take on extra projects, I do a lot of things that I don't have to do because I want the crew to be happy and the store to run well. I even worry about the place when I'm off and had to get out of the habbit of calling in and checking on things while I'm there. My former stateside primary/current friend, and Jounar have both worked to help me cut this devotion a bit as they really don't apreciate it and they tend to take advantage.

But I'm that way with everything. People can see it on me I think. The guy I call "master asshole" saw that devotion in me and used it against me. In the end, yes I'm the one that made the choice to do those things, and yes it was probably from an insecurity that he played on, but I do think devotion had a bit to do with it as well.

As to "I'd follow you to the ends of the earth", I'm working on that part. Many people think I'm stupid for even considering it. A few are so caught up in the romance of it that that's all they see is some fairy tail. But the ones who are really close to me and know me, they get it. And it's not like I'm jumping the next plane and figuring out the rest after I get there. No, I've been researching, looking for work/sponcership, figuring out every angle, costs, etc. I don't do anything, anymore, with out well knowing everything involved in it.

 

[Netzach]

Depends what's at stake.

I accept things in other people that others will not and call me insane for accepting.

However, they have to accept certain things in me that others won't and would call them insane for accepting.

 

[Netzach]

When your devotion causes you to die inside, it is devotion gone bad. You've seen that person. Perhaps not dead inside from devotion, but dead inside nonetheless. Devotion to the wrong person can do that to you.

As to being happy more often than not, yes, it matters. It may not be the final reason to cease being devoted, but it matters. All that hooey about blind devotion through eternal suffering is just that - hooey. If you find yourself more miserable than happy, it is time to ask yourself hard questions about the worth of the person you are devoted to.

Yes. "More happy" isn't necessarily counting out calendar days of happy versus not, but it's a general feeling. If you're asking yourself if it's worth it you're already in a red-flag moment, IMO. I did a lot of that for about two or three miserable months of non-acceptance of a certain piece of reality in one of my rels. I decided then to accept it and I've held myself to that. Accepting that, I've gone forward deciding to be happy with it.

 

[gloriann]

I think devotion means different things to different people. Personally I like the word committment better than devotion.

I think some people can get overly attached, over devoted, if you will, without thinking. If the relationship is going to take that large of a leap, it had better be reciprocated. What's the use if it's not reciprocated?

 

[Homburg]

I have been called overly devoted, but I like how some one put it to me and said I have "miss placed devotion".

My problem is that I tend to be devoted to everything and it wears me out. I am overly devoted to my job. I work 9-12 hour days (some times more) and I'm always on call, I do work at home, I take on extra projects, I do a lot of things that I don't have to do because I want the crew to be happy and the store to run well. I even worry about the place when I'm off and had to get out of the habbit of calling in and checking on things while I'm there. My former stateside primary/current friend, and Jounar have both worked to help me cut this devotion a bit as they really don't apreciate it and they tend to take advantage.

This particular passage could have easily been written by MIS. She does the same thing. I've been working with her to moderate how much of herself she pours into the various parts of he rlife, and it has been a resoundingly good thing. We had a seriously rough patch over the summer due to this tendency, and it motivates both of us to ensure that there will be no repeat.

But I'm that way with everything. People can see it on me I think. The guy I call "master asshole" saw that devotion in me and used it against me. In the end, yes I'm the one that made the choice to do those things, and yes it was probably from an insecurity that he played on, but I do think devotion had a bit to do with it as well.

Same with this passage. A used her devotion as a weapon against her.

As to "I'd follow you to the ends of the earth", I'm working on that part. Many people think I'm stupid for even considering it. A few are so caught up in the romance of it that that's all they see is some fairy tail. But the ones who are really close to me and know me, they get it. And it's not like I'm jumping the next plane and figuring out the rest after I get there. No, I've been researching, looking for work/sponcership, figuring out every angle, costs, etc. I don't do anything, anymore, with out well knowing everything involved in it.

Fairy tales are important, and dreams matter. Sometimes you are just the sort of person that define love and happiness as more important than security, and dream bigger dreams than the grey-skinned cyphers that surround you.

 

[twysted73]

LOL, it's sad you feel that way as there are many examples of people who have died to save their loved one/s and been fully aware of what they were doing and why, so while it appears far fetched for you, that is not so for everyone.

I'll try to get back to the thread later when time permits more full attention.

Catalina

It's not that I don't enjoy the romantic notion of it.
Like "everlasting love" it's something only those who've seen it firsthand can attest to.

So my "sad state" is only one of inexperience. And that isn't something I would necessarily judge another for not having. Especially in this type of lifestyle.
Now, I do posess that appreciation for romanticism. I simply don't witness it on a daily basis like they do in the Netherlands.
What we have here is The Disney Effect. Where there's an often unattainable fantasy progression of happiness that's force-fed to most children at an early age.
And as I look around I see that the second this fantasy of "Meet Prince Charming, Marry Prince Charming, Have princes and princess's with aforementioned Prince, then living happily ever after" meets up with the trials & tribulations of life, one or the other of the two become disenchanted (odd how the term for it sounds fairytale-esqe as well, no?) and split never having the intestinal fortitude to stick it out and work through the rough spots. To make non-traditional allowances in-order to make the other person happy. Like allowing your S/O to have a Dominant if you're not up for or interested in being what she needs in the Dominant mindset.

Or like Hom's situation. Dissapproval from up and down the board in his familial unit if he were to reveal his secret poly identity. (Two-perman) <-- i just kill me when I'm on a roll **
And only his stubborn stance and guarded privacy allow coexistance between his tri-unit and their perspective familias.
I understand there are very few truly "unconditional" loves out there (mother to child, dog to owner, Republicans to oil companies).

It's just that most american relationships are built on the wrong things to begin with so I'm not suprised to see foundations crumble under stresses and a rising divorce rate in this country of mine.

*folds up that handy soapbox and stores it effortlessly*

I was simply saying that, as much as I love the honor, the strength, the courage and the depth of devotion such a death for a loved one embodies, (something I actually took with me each time we hit resistance in towns to fortify my resolve to push forth) I just don't see too many selfless acts of expression for such appear in the news or in the papers these days.
Atleast...not in the R&J scenario/mindset.

*realizes he dropped a quarter and decides not to change it out for 2 pennies*

 

[Homburg]

I was simply saying that, as much as I love the honor, the strength, the courage and the depth of devotion such a death for a loved one embodies, I just don't see too many selfless acts appear in the news or in the papers these days.

Those sort of stories don't sell newspapers.

Fear sells. Worry sells. Prurient yellow journalism sells.

More importantly, you, and everyone else, pays more attention to the scary negative shit. Doesn't matter how much positive there is, a terrorist bombing will be all you see if they show that.

 

[twysted73]

Oh contrair mon capitan.

Anyone who's close to me knows I never watch the news for that very reason. Because force-fed sensationalism, strife and shock/awe are all they sell in the news these days.

It's the lack of the possative human element I scorn the news for. The fact they save puppies being rescued from storm drains for the "happy ending" at the tail end (no pun intended) of news reports that I hate. Possitive hope has become a lolly pop after the colonoscopy that is 6 o'clock news.
It's that cheapened usage of hope that makes me turn an eye from "mainstream journalism" and head inwards to what I can change and make better.

You have me pegged wrong sir. But that's understandable. I never had the chance to have a beer with you in Atlanta so it's cool until I do. No worries.
Until then I will continue to enjoy your perspectives.

~ Slainte`

 

[the captians wench]

It's not that I don't enjoy the romantic notion of it.
Like "everlasting love" it's something only those who've seen it firsthand can attest to.

So my "sad state" is only one of inexperience. And that isn't something I would necessarily judge another for not having. Especially in this type of lifestyle.
Now, I do posess that appreciation for romanticism. I simply don't witness it on a daily basis like they do in the Netherlands.
What we have here is The Disney Effect. Where there's an often unattainable fantasy progression of happiness that's force-fed to most children at an early age.
And as I look around I see that the second this fantasy of "Meet Prince Charming, Marry Prince Charming, Have princes and princess's with aforementioned Prince, then living happily ever after" meets up with the trials & tribulations of life, one or the other of the two become disenchanted (odd how the term for it sounds fairytale-esqe as well, no?) and split never having the intestinal fortitude to stick it out and work through the rough spots. To make non-traditional allowances in-order to make the other person happy. Like allowing your S/O to have a Dominant if you're not up for or interested in being what she needs in the Dominant mindset.

Or like Hom's situation. Dissapproval from up and down the board in his familial unit if he were to reveal his secret poly identity. (Two-perman) <-- i just kill me when I'm on a roll **
And only his stubborn stance and guarded privacy allow coexistance between his tri-unit and their perspective familias.
I understand there are very few truly "unconditional" loves out there (mother to child, dog to owner, Republicans to oil companies).

It's just that most american relationships are built on the wrong things to begin with so I'm not suprised to see foundations crumble under stresses and a rising divorce rate in this country of mine.

*folds up that handy soapbox and stores it effortlessly*

I was simply saying that, as much as I love the honor, the strength, the courage and the depth of devotion such a death for a loved one embodies, (something I actually took with me each time we hit resistance in towns to fortify my resolve to push forth) I just don't see too many selfless acts of expression for such appear in the news or in the papers these days.
Atleast...not in the R&J scenario/mindset.

*realizes he dropped a quarter and decides not to change it out for 2 pennies*

This reminds me a lot of something my ex husband told me and I've mentioned here before.

He told me I have a "child like" view on the world and that "the world is some happy magical place" for me. He said it kind of in a noble way, as if him leaving me was a way to "wake me up" and keep me from falling into another fairy tale only to be hurt again.

For months after that I tried to view the world as the hurtful place that he told me it was. I tried to argue with my inner self telling myself that the world was not the fairy tale place my parents told me it was. That I couldn't do just anything I wanted, and that Prince Charming doesn't exist.

I worked hard to "break the delution" for 6 months, then I gave up and allowed myself to fall inlove again. I allowed myself to be the impish creature I am and see the world in the happy fairtail light I always have. What I realized is that it takes just as much work to keep my princesses in castles on forgien shores as it does to bust down those walls infavor of putting up a new parking lot.

So I dream big, but I'm realistic too, I do my homework and I know what it will take to make my dreams come true. A lot of hard work and sacrifice, but I'm very willing to do both.

 

[Homburg]

Oh contrair mon capitan.

Anyone who's close to me knows I never watch the news for that very reason. Because force-fed sensationalism, strife and shock/awe are all they sell in the news these days.

Same here. It's useless, by and large. I've got a really good news aggregator that I dig called Newsmap and I hit Fark, but otherwise I get my news in a haphazard, holistic way.

It's the lack of the possative human element I scorn the news for. The fact they save puppies being rescued from storm drains for the "happy ending" at the tail end (no pun intended) of news reports that I hate. Possitive hope has become a lolly pop after the colonoscopy that is 6 o'clock news.
It's that cheapened usage of hope that makes me turn an eye from "mainstream journalism" and head inwards to what I can change and make better.

You have me pegged wrong sir. But that's understandable. I never had the chance to have a beer with you in Atlanta so it's cool until I do. No worries.
Until then I will continue to enjoy your perspectives.

~ Slainte`

Not particularly meant to peg you as an individual. It was largely generic statements, and based as much on my own cynicism towards news media.

Unrelated:

Keep yourself safe down there. Ike looks like he's heading FL way instead of up the coast like Hanna did. The locals were worried about Hanna here, and it turned out to be baseless. Ike, well, he looks like he might be nasty. Stay above water, Twysted.