Some really bad writers on here.

[sr71plt]

What interests me is that none of you ever name the bad writers and never try to help them write better.

Probably because there are as many bad readers as bad writers here, doncha' think?

 

[Emperor_Nero]

You're Wrong, CH. I've given up on trying to help, because I got seriously tired of "Dude, Lighten up, It's just a porn story" responses to constructive criticism and offers to help.



As the product of the 1960's educational system, the parent of two graduates of the 1990's educational system and the grandparent of two still in school (both in magnet programs,) I disgree with your assertion that American Education "is at the best it's ever been."

You're especially wrong when it comes to language arts like spelling, grammar and composition. The evidence is here at Lit in the first submissions of almost every author and the continued submissions of the 'its only porn' authors, but the decline in language/communication skills also apparent in the daily newscasts, the movies, and in the products of major publishing company imprints -- like TOR, Baen Books, Signet, Bantam, Dell, Del Rey, et al.

Nearly every book I've purchased in the last fifteen years contains errors characteristic of either MS Word or Wordperfect's spell checkers being trusted to make automatic corrections and of excessive trust in spell checkers (non-exisistent) ability to find homonyms and misused words.

Spell checkers are useless if people can't spell well enough to get the first few letters correct.

The information being presented to students is an ever increasing smorgasbord of information, but the little details like the ability to communicate precisely at need or make change without a cash register to do the simple arithmetic for you -- along with many other "life skills" are nearly completely overlooked in grades K-12.

Harold, I agree completely that the educational system has gone downhill -- especially sharply in the past few years as teachers are forced to teach to the mandates of No Child Left Behind and items on the tests that rank their school's performance -- and grammar, spelling and proper word usage aren't on those tests.

But part of the problem you see in publishing is also likely from our current economic situation. I can't speak directly about the publishing houses, but having worked in the newspaper industry, the number of eyes looking over stories and headlines are now at least half of what they used to be -- and in many cases are down to a single set of eyes to proof pages of copy. Working on deadline and having to complete "X" number of stories and/or pages to stay out of the line of fire of a manager means tools like spell check and grammar check have to be trusted to a certain extent. Barring something of a purient nature, a misspelling or an incorrect word won't get you hauled in on the carpet, but not meeting an expected workload level will.

As many of us here know, copyediting is a much more difficult job than it appears.

 

[sr71plt]

Harold, I agree completely that the educational system has gone downhill -- especially sharply in the past few years as teachers are forced to teach to the mandates of No Child Left Behind and items on the tests that rank their school's performance -- and grammar, spelling and proper word usage aren't on those tests.

But part of the problem you see in publishing is also likely from our current economic situation. I can't speak directly about the publishing houses, but having worked in the newspaper industry, the number of eyes looking over stories and headlines are now at least half of what they used to be -- and in many cases are down to a single set of eyes to proof pages of copy. Working on deadline and having to complete "X" number of stories and/or pages to stay out of the line of fire of a manager means tools like spell check and grammar check have to be trusted to a certain extent. Barring something of a purient nature, a misspelling or an incorrect word won't get you hauled in on the carpet, but not meeting an expected workload level will.

As many of us here know, copyediting is a much more difficult job than it appears.

Yes, I've seen this in both the journalism and book publishing fields. When I left journalism, copy was being proofed two fewer times in the standard publication process, and some of the copy was being published unedited--as compared to when I started. By the time I entered the book editing field, what could function as a publisher had expanded to a large number of enterprises not doing much "editing" at all and even the mainstream publishers were restricting the hours of work they would pay an editor to do (causing editors to spend less time proofing), accepting half-baked manuscripts from "writers" released from the education system with relatively worse English skills than in previous times (which also restricted reviews by the copyeditors), and leaving the final galley proof to the author, rather than the house editors doing a galley proof of their own. (And authors, all prone to habitual mistakes in the first place, are highly unlikely to catch all of them in a galley review.)

 

[Elianna]

As the product of the 1960's educational system, the parent of two graduates of the 1990's educational system and the grandparent of two still in school (both in magnet programs,) I disgree with your assertion that American Education "is at the best it's ever been."

You're especially wrong when it comes to language arts like spelling, grammar and composition. The evidence is here at Lit in the first submissions of almost every author and the continued submissions of the 'its only porn' authors, but the decline in language/communication skills also apparent in the daily newscasts, the movies, and in the products of major publishing company imprints -- like TOR, Baen Books, Signet, Bantam, Dell, Del Rey, et al.

Nearly every book I've purchased in the last fifteen years contains errors characteristic of either MS Word or Wordperfect's spell checkers being trusted to make automatic corrections and of excessive trust in spell checkers (non-exisistent) ability to find homonyms and misused words.

Spell checkers are useless if people can't spell well enough to get the first few letters correct.

The information being presented to students is an ever increasing smorgasbord of information, but the little details like the ability to communicate precisely at need or make change without a cash register to do the simple arithmetic for you -- along with many other "life skills" are nearly completely overlooked in grades K-12.

And I believe that you are completely wrong. You critique people who have made typos simply because of the speed they type. I happen to be one who does that. I know exactly the correct usage for all my homonyms, the correct use of apostrophes, and how to spell. In fact, I could probably recite all the rules to you. I guarantee you that people who write books and make those errors can do the same thing. It doesn't mean they're dumb, it means that they're not perfect. Are you? Of course people made fewer mistakes when writing by hand. They couldn't spout out 100 words a minute. Don't confuse lack of education with making errors.

As for life skills. My parents taught me how to balance my checkbook. They reinforced my ability to make change (though I believe I did learn in 1st or 2nd grade). They also made me read books and do my homework. Consequently, I graduated in the top 1% of my public high school's graduating class, went to college for free and now have a supervisory job with a more than decent salary.

I can guarantee you that I can spell as well, write as well, and contend with anyone from the 1960's education system. I believe that there are MORE people who can do so than you'd care to believe.

Why do I believe this? Simple. In the 1960's we didn't educate everyone. Most likely, if you were poor you got a poor education. If you were black you didn't get a good education. The land of opportunity... wasn't. (NCLB, while there is much to hate, is trying to change that.)

I can give you good empirical evidence that justifies what I've said about our education system. However, I don't think it's perfect. I think we ARE teaching to tests and not developing independent thinkers. However, if you look at who we now educate, what opportunities they are given and the systems and structures that have been set up to promote their success, and then compare it to your "great education" in the 1960's you might find that we're doing pretty darn well.

 

[Elianna]

Probably because there are as many bad readers as bad writers here, doncha' think?

Do you know how much I love you?

 

[dr_mabeuse]

And I believe that you are completely wrong. You critique people who have made typos simply because of the speed they type. I happen to be one who does that. I know exactly the correct usage for all my homonyms, the correct use of apostrophes, and how to spell. In fact, I could probably recite all the rules to you. I guarantee you that people who write books and make those errors can do the same thing. It doesn't mean they're dumb, it means that they're not perfect. Are you? Of course people made fewer mistakes when writing by hand. They couldn't spout out 100 words a minute. Don't confuse lack of education with making errors.

As for life skills. My parents taught me how to balance my checkbook. They reinforced my ability to make change (though I believe I did learn in 1st or 2nd grade). They also made me read books and do my homework. Consequently, I graduated in the top 1% of my public high school's graduating class, went to college for free and now have a supervisory job with a more than decent salary.

I can guarantee you that I can spell as well, write as well, and contend with anyone from the 1960's education system. I believe that there are MORE people who can do so than you'd care to believe.

Why do I believe this? Simple. In the 1960's we didn't educate everyone. Most likely, if you were poor you got a poor education. If you were black you didn't get a good education. The land of opportunity... wasn't. (NCLB, while there is much to hate, is trying to change that.)

I can give you good empirical evidence that justifies what I've said about our education system. However, I don't think it's perfect. I think we ARE teaching to tests and not developing independent thinkers. However, if you look at who we now educate, what opportunities they are given and the systems and structures that have been set up to promote their success, and then compare it to your "great education" in the 1960's you might find that we're doing pretty darn well.

Show me a grammar school kid today who can diagram a sentence or tell you what an adverbial phrase is or an auxiliary verb or even what a preposition is and I'll believe you. AFAIK they don't even teach grammar any more and haven't for maybe 20 years. Not even the teachers today know grammar because it was never taught to them. Expanded opportunity may have to do with the quantity of education but that's not the same as the quality of it, which is clearly inferior to what it was when I was in school regarding language arts.

 

[Elianna]

Show me a grammar school kid today who can diagram a sentence or tell you what an adverbial phrase is or an auxiliary verb or even what a preposition is and I'll believe you. AFAIK they don't even teach grammar any more and haven't for maybe 20 years. Not even the teachers today know grammar because it was never taught to them. Expanded opportunity may have to do with the quantity of education but that's not the same as the quality of it, which is clearly inferior to what it was when I was in school regarding language arts.

Actually I believe you're right there. Because we are educating MORE kids, we are doing less detail. It's a struggle in the education world. Most kids who are highly successful come from homes with educated parents who made them read. Literacy is directly related to socio-economic status. It's a tough problem to solve. Kids who have all the supports quickly filter into accelerated programs, where (like me) they learned to diagram sentences.

We have more literate, "educated" people than before, but we're sacrificing quality to do so. You'll find that families in poverty don't support or supplement their kids' education because they can't. They worry about getting food on the table. There is still a harsh disparity between schools in upper-class communities and lower-class communities. As always education falls back on economics. Classrooms can only do so much without the supports in the home.

If you didn't notice I'm kind of a crusader for education. Data shows that most people think American Edcuation is terrible. Those same people think their local schools are doing a good job teaching their kids. Hmmm....

There are a multitude of problems that schools are left to deal with as I've listed in previous posts. With choosing to educate ABSOLUTELY EVERYONE, we struggle to maintain rigor. But are you willing to sacrifice one child and say, they're not worth the opportunity? Some education systems do just that. I'm proud to say we don't, but I also know it means sitting at the drawing board and figuring out how the hell this is going to work.

 

[CeriseNoire]

Show me a grammar school kid today who can diagram a sentence or tell you what an adverbial phrase is or an auxiliary verb or even what a preposition is and I'll believe you. AFAIK they don't even teach grammar any more and haven't for maybe 20 years. Not even the teachers today know grammar because it was never taught to them. Expanded opportunity may have to do with the quantity of education but that's not the same as the quality of it, which is clearly inferior to what it was when I was in school regarding language arts.

I hate to pick a losing battle, but it seems I'm in a frivolous mood.

I will say that I know a number of older people who to this day can diagram a sentence, yet they can't write decently or express themselves properly. The ability to regurgitate grammar rules in only an indication of someone's regurgitative ability.

Apparently, you know what teachers know as well as what they teach, but I know that I certainly teach grammar, and I am not the only one doing it. I just choose my topics of focus with care. That said, I didn't learn grammar in this country, but I know that several of my colleagues (that are close to me in age) were in fact taught grammar in school. Besides, the lack of decent grammar has to do with more that what is or isn't taught in school.

 

[gauchecritic]

Literacy is directly related to socio-economic status.

A correlation possibly but not a cause and effect.

 

[Emerald_Dragon]

I am new to lit, Been browsing stories but I keep hitting the same thing. Stories with stuff like

I run my hands up you shirt.
You let out a soft sigh.

My god is the story in first person or second person. Choose one and stick with it. Or maybe take the time to create a charachter. Takes a second to atleast pick a name. Lit may have thousands of stories but if there all like this you won't have many fans.

How about I rephrase that for ya!!

Hi, I'm new. Some of the stories here really suck from a proofreading standpoint. Can anyone point me in the direction of some good stories that have decent grammer? I would love to find some great authors. Thanks in advance!!

Nice to meet ya!! I am a pretty decent writer, check out my stuff and be sure to vote and leave feedback so I can improve!!!!

 

[rgraham666]

Show me a grammar school kid today who can diagram a sentence or tell you what an adverbial phrase is or an auxiliary verb or even what a preposition is and I'll believe you. AFAIK they don't even teach grammar any more and haven't for maybe 20 years. Not even the teachers today know grammar because it was never taught to them. Expanded opportunity may have to do with the quantity of education but that's not the same as the quality of it, which is clearly inferior to what it was when I was in school regarding language arts.

Hell, I can't do any of those things. And I went to school when they did teach them.

I still seem to do okay when it comes to writing though.

 

[Elianna]

A correlation possibly but not a cause and effect.

Very true. However from a data standpoint... kids who live in poverty generally score 15% lower on academic testing, despite intervention.

My state scores are agregated many different ways. In general, kids in poverty (yes, a category) score lower. More kids in that category do not meet standards, and fall far below standards than any other category. It breaks my heart. There is always the exception to the rule. Having taught where 70% of my students wewre on the free lunch program, I saw kids who did well despite the odds. I saw many more who didn't.

It's just an observation. We all have many obstacles stacked in our way. Some of us more than others.

 

[Elianna]

Hell, I can't do any of those things. And I went to school when they did teach them.

I still seem to do okay when it comes to writing though.

Yes you do. Amazing. Education is only a piece of the puzzle.

 

[cloudy]

As the product of the 1960's educational system, the parent of two graduates of the 1990's educational system and the grandparent of two still in school (both in magnet programs,) I disgree with your assertion that American Education "is at the best it's ever been."

You're especially wrong when it comes to language arts like spelling, grammar and composition. The evidence is here at Lit in the first submissions of almost every author and the continued submissions of the 'its only porn' authors, but the decline in language/communication skills also apparent in the daily newscasts, the movies, and in the products of major publishing company imprints -- like TOR, Baen Books, Signet, Bantam, Dell, Del Rey, et al.

Nearly every book I've purchased in the last fifteen years contains errors characteristic of either MS Word or Wordperfect's spell checkers being trusted to make automatic corrections and of excessive trust in spell checkers (non-exisistent) ability to find homonyms and misused words.

Spell checkers are useless if people can't spell well enough to get the first few letters correct.

The information being presented to students is an ever increasing smorgasbord of information, but the little details like the ability to communicate precisely at need or make change without a cash register to do the simple arithmetic for you -- along with many other "life skills" are nearly completely overlooked in grades K-12.

I agree completely.

We have some wonderful teachers working, but sadly, they are far outnumbered by the mediocre and the barely competent.

I had a friend in college who used to teach third grade. I love her dearly, but she's not very bright. Starting next year, they're moving her to eighth grade. I had to tutor her in math the summer between our sophomore and junior years because she'd failed the math section on the test to move to upper division classes.

Fractions, like 1/2 + 1/4, absolutely baffled her, and she can't even solve the most basic of algebra equations, yet she's certified to teach grades that should have already mastered those things.

Scary shit.

 

[DeeZire]

I wonder how long it will be before fiction is written in phone-texting shorthand? R U Red E 4 that?

Back to the OP's request - go up to one of Dr. Mabeuse posts and click on his sig line to find stories of a higher caliber than what the top lists have to offer. In fact, click on the sig line of anyone in the AH (except me) to find well-written fiction that will make the top lists look like the work of underachieving kindergardeners. The top lists are self-propagating - people read the stories from the top of the list down, thereby increasing the number of reads for those stories, thereby increasing the story's position in the top list. (I look for the little green E's, but they're hard to find.)

Once you find an author you like, you can check the 'favorite author' list in their personal profile to find others you might enjoy.

 

[Liar]

You're especially wrong when it comes to language arts like spelling, grammar and composition.

That's langauge craft. Langauge art is something entirely different. Style, genre proficiency, wit, elocution, rhetoric, prosody, poetics.

I temp as a writing teacher for a high school now and then, and when I compare what the kids do today with what we did fifteen years ago, it's a whole different ballpark.

The craft, the technical skill of writing is as you point out in questionable shape. But dayum, those kids got a sense for language and a range of expression as well as an ear for nuance that I don't think many in their age bracket had ten or twenty years ago.

Don't know what the eason for this is, but I'd wager a guess on web forums and blogs. So much of their social life is global and done in public, in essay-esque bursts, and so much about who you are there is based on how you express yourself, that they have matured as language artists much faster than previous generations did. Wit means status, pure and simple.

So do I fear for the young'uns? Nah, I fear them. Because they are going to grow up and start taking my writing gigs.

 

[Elianna]

I agree completely.

We have some wonderful teachers working, but sadly, they are far outnumbered by the mediocre and the barely competent.

I had a friend in college who used to teach third grade. I love her dearly, but she's not very bright. Starting next year, they're moving her to eighth grade. I had to tutor her in math the summer between our sophomore and junior years because she'd failed the math section on the test to move to upper division classes.

Fractions, like 1/2 + 1/4, absolutely baffled her, and she can't even solve the most basic of algebra equations, yet she's certified to teach grades that should have already mastered those things.

Scary shit.

That scares the crap out of me. YIKES!

But.... (there is always one, isn't there)

There are many teachers that I wouldn't call "experts" at the basic stuff. They have to learn it to teach it.

I guess teaching is a craft just like writing. Some people aren't the brightest lights in the teaching world, but produce some of the brightest kids in the world because they know the nuances of their art. They know how to motivate and inspire. They can take curriculum and make it real, relevant, interesting and get kids motivated.

Some of the brightest people I know can't do that. They may be smart, but they don't have the "craft" of teaching.

Let us pray that what your friend lacks in basic skills is made up in her ability to really make teaching into an art.

 

[Guest]

I agree completely.

We have some wonderful teachers working, but sadly, they are far outnumbered by the mediocre and the barely competent.

I had a friend in college who used to teach third grade. I love her dearly, but she's not very bright. Starting next year, they're moving her to eighth grade. I had to tutor her in math the summer between our sophomore and junior years because she'd failed the math section on the test to move to upper division classes.

Fractions, like 1/2 + 1/4, absolutely baffled her, and she can't even solve the most basic of algebra equations, yet she's certified to teach grades that should have already mastered those things.

Scary shit.

But that's a completely different certification, at least around here.

Elementary vs. 6-8 vs. 9-12 - different skills, different degrees.

Makes no sense to move someone from the elementary classroom to teaching math at the junior high level.

 

[cloudy]

But that's a completely different certification, at least around here.

Elementary vs. 6-8 vs. 9-12 - different skills, different degrees.

Makes no sense to move someone from the elementary classroom to teaching math at the junior high level.

She works in Tennessee, and there they certify teachers either K-8, or Secondary. I have no idea why.

 

[Weird Harold]

And I believe that you are completely wrong. You critique people who have made typos simply because of the speed they type. ... Of course people made fewer mistakes when writing by hand. They couldn't spout out 100 words a minute. Don't confuse lack of education with making errors.

When I finished typing class, I passed with the bare minimum skill level of 90 wpm with fewer than 5% errors. My sister finished typing class with a skill level of 240 WPM with fewer than 5% errors and went into "IBM keypunch operator" as her first job which reuired 280 WPM with ZERO errors.

Still I don' tcritique people for typos, I critique them for consistenntly misusing words and not checking their work. I don't critique forum posts as harshly as I do story submissions, because I don't expect the quality a minimum of three drafts and at least one proofreader can provide from a spur of the moment posting.

I expect people who submit stories to have some pride in their work and make every effort to remove and correct typos rather than submitting a first draft without even re-reading it for gross errors.

But it isn't even the level of technical errors that make it past copyediting that is indicative of the decline in communication skills, or even solely communication skills that indicate to me a decline in "literacy."

As for life skills. My parents taught me how to balance my checkbook.

The key point is that your parents taught you. They probably taught you far more than school ever did, and that is the problem -- too few parents have either the time or the inclination to teach their children the importance of learning. The schools provided YOU with information and you absorbed it.

The schools provide(d) the same information to every student and have done so since public schools were established. The difference is in the philosophy of how to determine the students' progress and what to do if the progress isn't satisfactory. For the 40 years since I graduated, the general trend of "what to do" has been to lower the standards so that more students can meet them.

Where the "Life Skills" problem comes into the picture is that almost nothing either of my daughters nor either of my granddaughters have been taught is related/referenced in any way to real life -- things like Momentum and Energy in general science classes aren't related to real life situations (like why cutting off an eighteen-wheeler is a bad idea) or how the problem solving techniques of basic algebra apply to solving non-mathematical problems.

"Life Skills" are more than balancing a checkbook or making change, and even those elementary arithmetic principles aren't being taught by the school system.

I can guarantee you that I can spell as well, write as well, and contend with anyone from the 1960's education system. I believe that there are MORE people who can do so than you'd care to believe.

I doubt that very much. I know that there are a great many products of the modern educational system who can compete with and even exceed the expectations of a 1960's vintage school. The problem is that there are far more who cannot compete because the schools no longer teach things like balancing checkbooks and counting change without a calculator -- except for in Special Ed where "life skills" are the goal rather than any true education (as my ex-wife and younger daughter both experienced.)

Why do I believe this? Simple. In the 1960's we didn't educate everyone. Most likely, if you were poor you got a poor education. If you were black you didn't get a good education. The land of opportunity... wasn't. (NCLB, while there is much to hate, is trying to change that.)

One of the reasons I believe the modern education system is flawed is that my youngest brother went through the exact same schools with many of the same teachers but was severely short-changed on his education because between the time I went through that school system and the time he went through it, reading instruction philosphy changed, arithmetic and mathematics instruction philosphy changed (I caught the leading edge of that change) and Peer Promotion became more important than demonstrated learning for advancement through the school system.

I have seen only more of the same kinds of changes that stifled my brother's education since then and experienced many of the changes from both the student and instructor's perspectives.

That's langauge craft. Langauge art is something entirely different. Style, genre proficiency, wit, elocution, rhetoric, prosody, poetics.

I temp as a writing teacher for a high school now and then, and when I compare what the kids do today with what we did fifteen years ago, it's a whole different ballpark.

I used the term "Language Arts" because that was the classification used for all language relevant classes. Grammar and spelling are indeed more craft than art in a purely technical sense, but "Language Arts" was the official designation for that group of graduation credit requirements.

I guess teaching is a craft just like writing. Some people aren't the brightest lights in the teaching world, but produce some of the brightest kids in the world because they know the nuances of their art. They know how to motivate and inspire. They can take curriculum and make it real, relevant, interesting and get kids motivated.

I've worked with some wonderful teachers and some wonderful tutors and I've dealt with more than a few who put the grain of truth in the adage "those who can, do; those who can't, teach."

Personally, I'm a very good "tutor," but I'm an absolutely lousy "teacher" -- I teach best in a one on one situation where I can tailor explanations to the student. I can nand have tutored successfully on subjects I knew nothing about, learning one or tow sentences ahead of my "student."

However, that has nothing to do with a teacher who teaches the same thing year after year not knowing the material becaus ethey simply can't understand it.

I've met too many certified Teachers who can't explain what they regurgitate from the lesson plan to believe that the current system has degenerated nearly to the point of returning to "Authority Over Substance," which characterized medieval education philosophy.

The majority of actual teachers in the current K-12 system are of my daughters generation with an ever increasing percentage of the next generation. They've been taught by people who graduated and went into education filled with the Progressive Education Ideals that came into vogue between my class and my youngest brothers' class. (yes there were more than one brother in that class.) and are teaching the evolution of the Progressive Education Philosphy -- each generation expanding and adapting the philosophy to be more liberal and more "inclusive," less "elitist" until without a determined parent or personal thrist for learning to force the issue, a typical student today is barely literate and almost totally incapable of critical thinking.

 

[alyxen]

Actually Zeb, it should be 'up your shirt.', if I am not mistaken.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Richard Feynman, the physicist, explained complex phenomena simply and elegantly. He said that if you really know something, explaining it should be simple. It's true.

I mean, the Egyptians already proved that you can build impressive monuments with crude tools and the basic fundamentals of geometry and physics. Ditto for trig and ancient mariners.

You master the baby-basics and then see how many ways you can apply what you know.

WH

I recall a world history course I took in high school. We never used the assigned text. Each grading period we obsessed about some fundamental aspect of civilization...fire, wheel, etc. The teacher taught me an important lesson: If youre lost in the Amazon, do you want an Indian who knows the country or someone who knows all about Amazon Indians?

 

[off2bed]

I hate to pick a losing battle, but it seems I'm in a frivolous mood.

I will say that I know a number of older people who to this day can diagram a sentence, yet they can't write decently or express themselves properly. The ability to regurgitate grammar rules in only an indication of someone's regurgitative ability.

Apparently, you know what teachers know as well as what they teach, but I know that I certainly teach grammar, and I am not the only one doing it. I just choose my topics of focus with care. That said, I didn't learn grammar in this country, but I know that several of my colleagues (that are close to me in age) were in fact taught grammar in school. Besides, the lack of decent grammar has to do with more that what is or isn't taught in school.

That's why writers need editors. Two different skills provided by different team members, together making a publishable book. Add an agent who knows what sells but isn't a good writer or editor, and you have success for everyone.

 

[cantdog]

Liar: That's language craft. Language art is something entirely different. Style, genre proficiency, wit, elocution, rhetoric, prosody, poetics.

I temp as a writing teacher for a high school now and then, and when I compare what the kids do today with what we did fifteen years ago, it's a whole different ballpark.

The craft, the technical skill of writing is as you point out in questionable shape. But dayum, those kids got a sense for language and a range of expression as well as an ear for nuance that I don't think many in their age bracket had ten or twenty years ago.

Don't know what the eason for this is, but I'd wager a guess on web forums and blogs. So much of their social life is global and done in public, in essay-esque bursts, and so much about who you are there is based on how you express yourself, that they have matured as language artists much faster than previous generations did. Wit means status, pure and simple.

So do I fear for the young'uns? Nah, I fear them. Because they are going to grow up and start taking my writing gigs.

______________________

This is a very perceptive post. Liar frequently comes through; have you noticed?

 

[Edward Teach]

What interests me is that none of you ever name the bad writers and never try to help them write better.

May I have a word with you in private?