Archival Review: Haiku

[LadynStFreknBed]

I've been following the Archival Review. I wanted to comment on the subject of Haiku, but I'm starting a new thread to keep the Archival Review thread clean.

I often enjoy writing Haiku. When I used to work in Lancaster county, PA, I used to compose them in my head on my way home in the mornings. I used to work 3rd shift. I found that composing Haiku was an excellent way to stay awake while driving home.

First of all, LeBroz mentioned a form called zappai. May I ask what that is?

Secondly, I think Haiku can be fun and effective. I'd like to share one now and get some feedback. I plan on using this one for an illustrated piece as soon as I paint the image.

Caterpillar

Slow, simple creature
will display regal array
when ready to soar



-Sheila

 

[SunrockSin]

First of all, LeBroz mentioned a form called zappai. May I ask what that is?

-Sheila

What is Zappai?

SRS

 

[SunrockSin]

What is Zappai?

SRS

Of course then you might wonder what senryu and haiku are too:

What is Senryu

What is Haiku?


SRS

 

[LadynStFreknBed]

Of course then you might wonder what senryu and haiku are too:

What is Senryu

What is Haiku?


SRS

Thank you, SRS. I like this quote from "What s Haiku?"--

"A haiku is a short poem recording the essence of a moment keenly perceived in which Nature is linked to human nature."
Cor van den Heuvel, The Haiku Anthology W.W. Norton & Company, New York, London

That's the aspect of haiku that I respect.
-Sheila

 

[Liar]

The challenge about writing haiku (the way I have been taught what haiku is), is to a) describe one moment with as much brevity as possible, and b) avoid all subjective judgement.

Subjective judgement includes value-loaded adjectives (beautiful, evil, insignificant, majestic), anthrmorphizing ("blushing" sunset, "dancing" lilies, and so on) and metaphor in general.

A haiku is in that regard the epitome of show, don't tell. And bloody hard to get right.

 

[LadynStFreknBed]

The challenge about writing haiku (the way I have been taught what haiku is), is to a) describe one moment with as much brevity as possible, and b) avoid all subjective judgement.

Subjective judgement includes value-loaded adjectives (beautiful, evil, insignificant, majestic), anthrmorphizing ("blushing" sunset, "dancing" lilies, and so on) and metaphor in general.

A haiku is in that regard the epitome of show, don't tell. And bloody hard to get right.

Let me see if I understand..

I can't imagine examining nature without metaphors. Within the haiku, the metaphors are not directly expressed or even alluded to and left up to the reader to draw their own conclusions. Does that sound right?

 

[LeBroz]

The challenge about writing haiku (the way I have been taught what haiku is), is to a) describe one moment with as much brevity as possible, and b) avoid all subjective judgement.

Subjective judgement includes value-loaded adjectives (beautiful, evil, insignificant, majestic), anthrmorphizing ("blushing" sunset, "dancing" lilies, and so on) and metaphor in general.

A haiku is in that regard the epitome of show, don't tell. And bloody hard to get right.

Let me see if I understand..

I can't imagine examining nature without metaphors. Within the haiku, the metaphors are not directly expressed or even alluded to and left up to the reader to draw their own conclusions. Does that sound right?

The only thing I'd add to Liar's fine exposition is that I'd say subjective value judgements just to make the matter clearer. And it's more than just show, don't tell. Writing haiku is like being a human camera. Describe what you see not only in as few words as possible, but also only exactly what is seen. Don't assume anything. In writing haiku the poet must not intrude on the description. Just look at this first haiku I posted on the thread in the current batch:

haiku
by poetboy824©


the only sound
the snow

Or, from my post on the archive thread where I discuss haiku, this sample:

flowers open
petals shine
tiny drops of dew

Should probably take out 'tiny' to make this example purer, or, better yet change it to read, "dew covered."

And Liar is spot on when he calls it hard to do. Such writing goes against the grain of what writing is usually thought to be about, to get your point across, even in a poem. Even in a 'perfect' haiku, with no obvious value judgement present, there is a value judgement if only in the form of what the poet selects for the haiku.

Another resource that SunrockSin missed is Not Seventeen: More on Haiku, which further discusses the issue of the 5-7-5 convention.

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[LadynStFreknBed]

Okay, I had to take a break from my schoolwork and try to write a haiku. I think it turned out well. It goes well with a painting that I did a few months ago, so I submitted it as an illustrated poem. It's called "Death of a Rose." Please let me know what you think when it posts.

-Sheila

 

[Equinoxe]

Ooh, haiku. Now I'll have to decide how much I want to confuse you.

I think I shall present a brief history of the haiku form, first. The word haiku was invented in the 19th century by Masaoka Shiki, the last of the traditional four great haiku poets. Now, as he was the last, one might conclude that the form predates him—and indeed it sort of does, beginning with Matsuo Basho in the 17th century. Basho wrote hokku, which came from a poetic form known as haikai no renga, which is a collaborative verse form in which hokku is the introductory part. He is something of the originator of hokku as an independent verse form, often in combination with prose (as in his Oku no Hosomichi). Following Basho, there were a number of poets who began to explore the potential of the form, traditionally the most significant of which are Yosa Buson, Kobayashi Issa, and Masaoka Shiki (all four together being regarded as the great masters of the form). Shiki is responsible for codifying most of what we regard as being haiku.

Haiku traditionally include a kigo and a kireji: a season word and a cutting word. The kigo tells the reader (assuming they are familiar with the form) what season the poem takes place in. For example, the famous poem by Basho, furuike ya kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto [an old pond a frog jumps in, the sound of water], takes place in Spring, as indicated by kawazu (a frog) which is a Spring kigo. Kawazu is not specific to any part of Spring, but some kigo are specific to the early, middle, or late part of the season: the Issa haiku sawagishiki yo wo oshi haratte oso-zakura takes place in late Spring (more or less the Third Month on the old Japanese calendar, or April on the Gregorian calendar) as indicated by oso-zakura (late cherry blossoms). The kireji has no direct English equivalent, but the concept can be and usually is imported: haiku generally involve a shift¹ in the poem, for example Issa's yo no naka wa jigoku no ue no hanami kana, "In this world over hell, viewing spring blossoms". In English this shift in the poem is generally indicated by punctuation; in Japanese, it is the kireji.

Some haiku do not have a kigo, however, and some haiku do not have a kireji. The form is, of course, more than that.

Nadeshiko no naze oreta zo yo oreta zo yo. In English, this is rendered something like "Why did the pink break, why did it break?" Now, this particular haiku is quite personal in tone and even outright emotional. In fact, the entire poem is a metaphor for the death of Issa's son Ishitaro. [ED. Oddly, I believe nadeshiko is a kigo indicating late Summer, but his son died in February.] Tsuyu no yo wa tokushin nagara sari nagara ("it's a dewdrop world, surely it is, and yet...")² is another haiku by Issa about the death of someone close to him, this time about the death of his daughter. Indeed, he wrote haiku about the deaths of his children, his father, and his wife.

Tako tsubo ya hakanaki yume wo natsu no tsuki. Summer (natsu no tsuki, the summer moon) is the season of this haiku by Basho and it is an unusual one. The poem translates into English as "An octopus pot—a fleeting dream was being dreamed; the summer moon"; it does not describe a moment in nature as Basho was witnessing it and it is even a bit anthropomorphising. Kusa no to mo sumikawaru yo zo hana no ie. Another Basho, from his Oku no Hosomichi, this one translates as "Even my grass thatched hut will have new occupants now: a display of dolls". This poem is about the events in the life of Basho as he is leaving his house and a new family is moving in.

The form is not exhausted in momentary observations about nature. There is more to the form that that, too.

Haiku is quite complicated for being so small.


The following is technical and unnecessary information about Japanese phonotactics that I'm including solely because I wrote it out before I realised that it was completely irrelevant. As has been already mentioned, haiku are not poems of seventeen syllables and a English poem of seventeen syllables would be quite different from a Japanese poem of seventeen syllables—and different still from a haiku. In addition to there being more to a haiku than the number of morae, there are technical phonotactical reasons for this. English has a much more free system of phonotactics than does Japanese: English syllable structure may be very broadly described as (C)(C)(C)V(C)(C)(C)(C) whilst Japanese syllable structure may be very broadly described as (C)(j)V(C) [C is a consonant, V is a vowel, j is a palatal glide, and parentheses denote that it is optional]. Both are actually slightly more restrictive in terms of which sounds can appear where: in the syllable coda (the part following the vowel), Japanese only allows nasals and geminate consonants [I won't bore anyone with a more detailed explanation of English phonotactics]. So, an English syllable can be as long as strengths (which, depending on one's pronunciation, can contain as many as eight separate sounds), whilst a Japanese syllable can contain at most four. However, Japanese is not traditionally analysed according to syllables, but on (which correspond to morae³), which are the "syllables" used in Japanese poetry, whether its haiku, renga, or waka. When writing kana (the hiragana and katakana writing systems), Japanese is, in fact, neatly broken up into on. A syllable in Japanese may contain one or two—any consonant in the coda is a separate on from the onset and nucleus, so a word like awan is three on, a-wa-n (and ergo counts as three in a haiku). Theoretically speaking (although this is not really observed in standard Japanese speech), there are no long vowels or dipthongs in Japanese and any long vowel is two separate on (and indeed, two separate syllables). In any case, if we compare seventeen Japanese on to seventeen English syllables, we can see the difference quite clearly:

itsu awan mi wa shiranuhi no tōgasumi
When will we meet again? I'm off to will-o'-the-wisps in the far mist​

_____________
¹ East Asian poetry in general loves shifting the focus and flow of a poem, it is quite common in tanka and a formal part of Chinese quatrains (or at least, the Japanese version thereof).
² This is a Buddhist reference. Everything is fleeting as a dewdrop and, as a Buddhist, Issa is supposed to be detached, but...
³ As a completely unrelated digression, the number of morae in a syllable is central to Ancient Greek and Latin verse.

 

[LeBroz]

Leon,
Does this work?

Summer eve--
Sun descending
Scarlet sky

Thought I'd answer your question here, rather than clutter up the archive thread with more of my ramblings. This morning in the Bistro I likened the 17 syllable, 5-7-5 convention as serving as training wheels. Let me add to that the thought that the convention itself isn't wrong. Also, as I said in my post a couple up from here, the writer of haiku is like a human camera. To make it harder, I'd limit it to being a still camera.

Having said all that and remembering that I'm not the fount of all wisdom regarding haiku, here's my reaction to your post:

Better than most; starts weak ends strong.
Summer eve — is not a thing in nature, it's more an abstract concept; could work as a title. As a title it would also make writing the haiku easier.
Sun descending — I'm neutral on this but as a still camera, how to say it's descending? Having the first line used as a title helps. You could say, Sun low in sky, or Sun touching horizon, or better yet, put it in a more active voice as Sun touches horizon.
Scarlet sky — IMO this is the best line, a definite keeper.

So, having done this simple analysis, what are the possibilities? Try these as just a limited sample of many possibilities:

Summer Eve

Sun touches horizon
Scarlet sky
Sea afire

or

Summer Eve

Sun touches horizon
Scarlet sky
Clouds afire

or

Summer Eve

Sun low in sky
Blue fades to red
Clouds reflect fire


Now just look at how the third piece sounds different by using fades. The first two better convey the day's heat. In fact on the third one the title could be Autumn Eve which would work better with the suggestion of fading. Just think of all the different images of a sunset you've experienced in your life — some are vibrant and strong and others seem weak and washed out. You could write a slew of haiku just on different sunsets and manage to evoke different emotions.

Just look at how much can be written about haiku. So much can be written about so few words.

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[LadynStFreknBed]

Thank You

I really appreciate all the information that I received here. This has been an incredible learning experience.

Now, if I could just find time to practice. I'll be so glad when my current college class is over.

-Sheila

 

[Liar]

Sea afire

Although from a purist's point of view, I'm not sure you should write 'sea afire', unless it's actually is on fire.

But now I'm getting anal, and there are different opinions on that.

 

[LeBroz]

Although from a purist's point of view, I'm not sure you should write 'sea afire', unless it's actually is on fire.

But now I'm getting anal, and there are different opinions on that.

Thinking about it, you may be right, from a purist's point of view. It's a short way of describing it, more like a gimmick. Better would be to say Blue sea turns red.

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[LadynStFreknBed]

omg, this is hard!

When reading the last post, I thought "red caresses the blue sea" or "red conquers the deep blue" might be cool... BUT, then I remembered Liar's warning about anthromorphizing.

sigh.

I'll keep practicing.

 

[Anschul]

Leon, thanks, you're the best. I started on Lit writing what I thought were haiku, but having read through these threads, I am completely chastised. Never having studied poetry beyond Shakespearean sonnets in college, I was stuck on the 5-7-5 thing. I love the form, and I am learning so much. Between you, Liar and Equinoxe, it's like going to school. I'll keep submitting and reading the critique, because someday I hope to write one you all will think, "Bravo!!". It's like a challenge, and I love a good challenge.
A

Thought I'd answer your question here, rather than clutter up the archive thread with more of my ramblings. This morning in the Bistro I likened the 17 syllable, 5-7-5 convention as serving as training wheels. Let me add to that the thought that the convention itself isn't wrong. Also, as I said in my post a couple up from here, the writer of haiku is like a human camera. To make it harder, I'd limit it to being a still camera.

Having said all that and remembering that I'm not the fount of all wisdom regarding haiku, here's my reaction to your post:

Better than most; starts weak ends strong.
Summer eve — is not a thing in nature, it's more an abstract concept; could work as a title. As a title it would also make writing the haiku easier.
Sun descending — I'm neutral on this but as a still camera, how to say it's descending? Having the first line used as a title helps. You could say, Sun low in sky, or Sun touching horizon, or better yet, put it in a more active voice as Sun touches horizon.
Scarlet sky — IMO this is the best line, a definite keeper.

So, having done this simple analysis, what are the possibilities? Try these as just a limited sample of many possibilities:

Summer Eve

Sun touches horizon
Scarlet sky
Sea afire

or

Summer Eve

Sun touches horizon
Scarlet sky
Clouds afire

or

Summer Eve

Sun low in sky
Blue fades to red
Clouds reflect fire


Now just look at how the third piece sounds different by using fades. The first two better convey the day's heat. In fact on the third one the title could be Autumn Eve which would work better with the suggestion of fading. Just think of all the different images of a sunset you've experienced in your life — some are vibrant and strong and others seem weak and washed out. You could write a slew of haiku just on different sunsets and manage to evoke different emotions.

Just look at how much can be written about haiku. So much can be written about so few words.

.
.

The challenge about writing haiku (the way I have been taught what haiku is), is to a) describe one moment with as much brevity as possible, and b) avoid all subjective judgement.

Subjective judgement includes value-loaded adjectives (beautiful, evil, insignificant, majestic), anthrmorphizing ("blushing" sunset, "dancing" lilies, and so on) and metaphor in general.

A haiku is in that regard the epitome of show, don't tell. And bloody hard to get right.

 

[LeBroz]

Leon, thanks, you're the best. I started on Lit writing what I thought were haiku, but having read through these threads, I am completely chastised. Never having studied poetry beyond Shakespearean sonnets in college, I was stuck on the 5-7-5 thing. I love the form, and I am learning so much. Between you, Liar and Equinoxe, it's like going to school. I'll keep submitting and reading the critique, because someday I hope to write one you all will think, "Bravo!!". It's like a challenge, and I love a good challenge.
A

My pleasure but the real man to thank is jthserra who wrote the series of "What is..." articles about the form. These are in these following links:

What is Zappai?

SRS

Of course then you might wonder what senryu and haiku are too:

What is Senryu

What is Haiku?


SRS

Another resource that SunrockSin missed is Not Seventeen: More on Haiku, which further discusses the issue of the 5-7-5 convention.

In addition to jthserra you ought to also check out some of Senna Jawa's poems that show how much can be said with so few words, even on his longer poems.

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[Anschul]

Leon, I've actually read a whole bunch of jthserra's work, in the year since I started with the dopey haikus, trying to learn. This latest push is really inspiring me to get back and try to do them better. You help, and here's what I've got today so far:


Summer Sun

White hot sun
Screams across the sky
Fade to black



Evening Sea

Endless purple sea
Stretches to infinity
Mirrors cotton clouds



Nighttime Sea

Black sea at night
Yellow stripe shimmers
Points to a pale moon

 

[LeBroz]

Leon, I've actually read a whole bunch of jthserra's work, in the year since I started with the dopey haikus, trying to learn. This latest push is really inspiring me to get back and try to do them better. You help, and here's what I've got today so far:

Here's a trivial fact — the plural of haiku is haiku. I just learned that little tidbit as I started posting haiku on the Archival Thread. Now, here are a few very subjective thoughts on what you've done here. This'll give you an idea as to why LadynStFreknBed says these are so hard to do. Objective observation's a real bitch.


Summer Sun

White hot sun
Screams across the sky
Fade to black

hot is subjective and Screams is anthropomorphic. The gem in this one is that last line. It leaves so much to the reader's imagination. Is it evening, or, is it so hot that the poet's fainted from the heat?


Evening Sea

Endless purple sea
Stretches to infinity
Mirrors cotton clouds

Endless and infinity are higher level concepts that don't really exist; also, with both being used, one is redundant. Not sure about that last line. Try something like this:

Purple sea
Stretches to horizon
Clouds above and below.


Nighttime Sea

Black sea at night
Yellow stripe shimmers
Points to a pale moon


This is the best of the three. Don't need to say at night, it's in the title.

Even playing editor on haiku is brutal. I do know that when you really nail it you can manage to describe more than just a scene but also evoke an emotional response through careful word selection. Don't feel bad about having started posting haiku here in the 5-7-5 convention. Just about everybody starts out following the convention. You'll probably find that haiku takes more time and work than a sonnet.

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[LadynStFreknBed]

What about this?

Dark cavern
Calcified spikes
Air chills.

 

[Anschul]

Miami Night

Black sky
Moonless, starless night
Ocean still there.

 

[LadynStFreknBed]

or maybe this?

Leaf-filtered sunlight
fallen log interrupts
a rock-cluttered stream

 

[champagne1982]

Dark cavern
Calcified spikes
Air chills.

cavern deep stalagmites
chill in summer night

 

[Liar]

Miami Night

Black sky
Moonless, starless night
Ocean still there.

If I may...?

Despite being a very short poem, you manage to either say or allude at "night" a total of four times. (Miami night, black sky, moonless (implied night, since you wouldn't mention the moon during a day scene), starless night.)

Miami

Moonless, starless sky.
Ocean still there.

...would pretty much say the same thing.

 

[Liar]

One from what I see out my window right now.


Dew

Magpies hunt,
feathers glitter
in dawn.

 

[LadynStFreknBed]

You would think that writing a "simple" haiku would be easy. By that I mean that the goal is to describe a scene and let the scene speak for itself. Yet, it's like I have to take a step back from everything I normally do when I write a poem. I bet my 8 yo could write haiku. He wouldn't have to resist poetic urges.

-Sheila