What Did Lady Liberty Ever Do To You?

[Katyusha]

What did Lady Liberty ever do to Hollywood? Nothing. The pictures of Liberty swathed in giant horizontal icicles at the end of The Day After Tomorrow just drives home the point that a new ice age could be that bad. The remains of Liberty at the end of Planet of the Apes deals with the potential results of humans continuing to wage war on each other with ever sophisticated weapons; the human race all but annihilated itself there. There are a LOT of movies dealing with that, hell, even Star Trek deals with that, most notably in First Contact.

Deep Impact (I believe) shows the head of Lady Liberty under water and bouncing off the ground in NYC after the little comet lands in the Atlantic.

Honestly I think it's more a fascination with NYC than it is Hollywood trying to make a point, and they use Liberty this way because she's a staple of that city, not because she's a symbol of American freedom.

 

[Katyusha]

Congress is supposed to check the Constitutionality of each bill they pass. Obviously, they sometimes fail. More serisouly, what they most often fail to take into account is the Law of Unintended Consequences . . .

I don't know whether they actually do, at least the way they're supposed to. Like I said, it's too vague. I may interpret it as perfectly constitutional while you may see it as wholly in violation of the Constitution. And because it's vague with loopholes in it, we would both be right (or we would both be wrong) until the Supreme Court made a decision on whose interpretation is the "correct" one.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Fortunately, as I understand it the Patriot Act has a "sunset" clause in it so that anytime it becomes an embarrassment it can be quietly allowed to die. I think most laws should be written this way.

 

[Katyusha]

Fortunately, as I understand it the Patriot Act has a "sunset" clause in it so that anytime it becomes an embarrassment it can be quietly allowed to die. I think most laws should be written this way.

Why, so they're not kept on the books long past their usefulness? Like, oh, say, sodomy and cohabitation laws?

ETA: My last post was not to say that I agree with the Patriot Act. I agree with parts of it but I disagree with parts of it as well. But its loopholes and its being subjective to wide interpretation make me wish it would go away.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Why, so they're not kept on the books long past their usefulness? Like, oh, say, sodomy and cohabitation laws?

Uh-huh! And the ones that make marriage only apply to a man and a woman.

 

[S-Des]

ETA: My last post was not to say that I agree with the Patriot Act. I agree with parts of it but I disagree with parts of it as well. But its loopholes and its being subjective to wide interpretation make me wish it would go away.

That's kind of the point to me too. It's not a very good law, but has some parts that are important. I just have given up trying to talk to people who run around screaming hysterically that their freedoms are all gone. As VM said, could you please show me one thing that you can't do that you used to be able to do pre-2000? There's a Democratic House & Senate. If it's a complete immoral subjugation of our freedoms, then why haven't they gotten rid of it?

As for the Statue Of Liberty, the answer is easy, Slyc. It's the only symbol in America (besides Rushmore) that resembles a human being. When the monster ripped off the head, it's easy to make the leap that it could have considered it a threat and attacked it. A building falling is a strong symbol, but a human-looking head being ripped off is much more powerful.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

As for the Statue Of Liberty, the answer is easy, Slyc. It's the only symbol in America (besides Rushmore) that resembles a human being. When the monster ripped off the head, it's easy to make the leap that it could have considered it a threat and attacked it. A building falling is a strong symbol, but a human-looking head being ripped off is much more powerful.

I like that analysis. It makes sense. It's non-political and shows just what lever of sophistication the industry has.

"Hey Herbie, da boss wants dat der monster look like it attack people. What we do?"

"Vinny, dat's easy. It a big monster, we have it attack a big people. Hmmm, where are dere big people . . ."

Voila! The Statue of Liberty.

 

[S-Des]

I like that analysis. It makes sense. It's non-political and shows just what lever of sophistication the industry has.

"Hey Herbie, da boss wants dat der monster look like it attack people. What we do?"

"Vinny, dat's easy. It a big monster, we have it attack a big people. Hmmm, where are dere big people . . ."

Voila! The Statue of Liberty.

I still remember seeing Independence Day in the theater on opening day. When the aliens attacked, everyone sat in shock, until the scene flashed to the next day and the Statue Of Liberty was laying in rubble. Some guy in the theater screamed, "You bastards!" It is a political symbol, it's a symbol of hope, but most of all it's something that resembles a person, so on some level it feels more "real" than just seeing a building decimated. That said, it's beginning to become a one-trick pony. We've seen it done really effectively in a bunch of disaster movies now, and it's reaching the end of it's run (I hope). Somebody needs to find a clever way to use something else for a while.

 

[Guest]

I still remember seeing Independence Day in the theater on opening day. When the aliens attacked, everyone sat in shock, until the scene flashed to the next day and the Statue Of Liberty was laying in rubble. Some guy in the theater screamed, "You bastards!" It is a political symbol, it's a symbol of hope, but most of all it's something that resembles a person, so on some level it feels more "real" than just seeing a building decimated. That said, it's beginning to become a one-trick pony. We've seen it done really effectively in a bunch of disaster movies now, and it's reaching the end of it's run (I hope). Somebody needs to find a clever way to use something else for a while.

Okay.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b318/sweetsubsarahh/Bushdecapitated.jpg

 

[voluptuary_manque]

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh34/Molly_Wens/lol.gif and yet I say again, http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh34/Molly_Wens/lol.gif. Of course it doesn't take much of a monster to pop a windbag . . .

 

[S-Des]

Okay.

You're a funny one, you are.

 

[Weird Harold]

BTW, I will happily concede the point the moment someone out there shows me an activity that they did before the Patriot Act but which they fear to do now. Really, I will.

Not necessarily something that is "feared to do now" or evendirectly related to the patriot act:

My younger granddaughter is in the fifth grade at a magnet school that has "leadership" as one of it's goals. The received a government grant to tak ethe entire 90+ fifth grade class to Washington DC for aleadership field trip.

Last year's class didn't get to tour the White House because the trip was approved too late to run background checks on the fifth graders so they could be allowed into the White House on a supervised tour.

This year's class apparently all passed their background checks, because they will get the White House tour along with the rest of the week's activities.

Like I said, I don't know if it directly relates to the Patriot Act but it certainly relates to the level of (presidential?) paranoia that could (would?) (has?) stretch the patriot act loopholes to the limits the courts will allow.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

I'll go with paranoia on this. I mean, how much background does a fifth grader have to check?

 

[rgraham666]

Those terrorists are sneeeaky.

They might just slip a midget into a fifth grade class carrying half his own weight in C4.

Ya never know.

 

[Katyusha]

That's kind of the point to me too. It's not a very good law, but has some parts that are important. I just have given up trying to talk to people who run around screaming hysterically that their freedoms are all gone. As VM said, could you please show me one thing that you can't do that you used to be able to do pre-2000? There's a Democratic House & Senate. If it's a complete immoral subjugation of our freedoms, then why haven't they gotten rid of it?

Indeed. I too am wondering just what freedoms are actually gone. I see a president who seems to want to be a despot, and the wiretap controversy pissed me off (and if I recall correctly it was ruled that he did break the law with that), but I haven't actually seen any of our freedoms disappear.

 

[slyc_willie]

I should have known this was going to turn into a political thread.

But I really like this assessment:

I think the typical point is that Liberty, is as fragile as the Statue personifying it..

Exactly.

 

[shereads]

Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breath free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shores;
Send these, the homeless tempest-tossed to me
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.

Might as well knock her head off; nobody seems to remember what she stood for.

 

[shereads]

Indeed. I too am wondering just what freedoms are actually gone. I see a president who seems to want to be a despot, and the wiretap controversy pissed me off (and if I recall correctly it was ruled that he did break the law with that), but I haven't actually seen any of our freedoms disappear.

'

Remember habeus corpus?

Remember when you had the right to assume that all of your personal communications were personal, your choice of reading material no one's business but your own, and your home inviolate - unless someone could demonstrate to a judge that your likely criminal behavior warranted a bit of spying? Remember knowing that if the worst happened, and you were mistaken for a criminal, you'd have the right to appear before a judge asap - your lawyer at your side - to explain away the misunderstanding?

Remember how that made us pretty much unique in the world, as a nation? How powerful we felt as free individuals?

No?

Okay, then. No problem. Like they say in China, if you aren't hiding anything you shouldn't care who's listening.

 

[shereads]

Meanwhile, back at the thread topic:

That was a masterful piece of scenery chewing by Charlton Heston in Apes, wasn't it? One of his finest, in a film chock-ablock with big toothy moments of Acting.

Was it just a glitch in the film, or did Liberty actually wince when he delivered that line?

 

[slyc_willie]

Meanwhile, back at the thread topic:

That was a masterful piece of scenery chewing by Charlton Heston in Apes, wasn't it? One of his finest, in a film chock-ablock with big toothy moments of Acting.

Was it just a glitch in the film, or did Liberty actually wince when he delivered that line?

I know I sure as hell did

 

[slyc_willie]

Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breath free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shores;
Send these, the homeless tempest-tossed to me
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.

Might as well knock her head off; nobody seems to remember what she stood for.

There's plenty of remembrance; just not so much adherance.

 

[Weird Harold]

I'll go with paranoia on this. I mean, how much background does a fifth grader have to check?

My daughter wanted to know what they found.

I doubt they found anything intersting about my granddaughter, but I'm sure that they found a good deal about my daughter and son-in-law and probably caused a great deal of concern in some of her classmates' parents over their immigration status or outstanding warrants.

It's not like a government sponsored school field trip is a bunch of random people like the daily public tours that casual tourists could sign up for on the spur of the moment -- or even a random selection of ten-year-olds.

I suppose if nothing else, my granddaughter is now conditioned to consider "Papers, Please" a reasonable request from governemnt bureaucrats.

 

[shereads]

I suppose if nothing else, my granddaughter is now conditioned to consider "Papers, Please" a reasonable request from governemnt bureaucrats.

It was bound to happen, I guess. Freedom and safety are uneasy partners; when they feel threatened, most people seem to choose safety or the illusion of safety over privacy and independence.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

That's freedom for you. No one ever said it was nice!

 

[oggbashan]

'

Remember habeus corpus?

Remember when you had the right to assume that all of your personal communications were personal, your choice of reading material no one's business but your own, and your home inviolate - unless someone could demonstrate to a judge that your likely criminal behavior warranted a bit of spying? Remember knowing that if the worst happened, and you were mistaken for a criminal, you'd have the right to appear before a judge asap - your lawyer at your side - to explain away the misunderstanding?

Remember how that made us pretty much unique in the world, as a nation? How powerful we felt as free individuals?

No?

Okay, then. No problem. Like they say in China, if you aren't hiding anything you shouldn't care who's listening.

In the UK most of those things still apply - unless you have been to an adventure training camp in rural Pakistan or Somalia. We have more CCTV than almost anyone but a policeman has to have reasonable cause before he can see the pictures.

Those things still apply in most of Europe - until you want to fly.

Welcome to the age of the train.

Og