FLDS compound

[richard_daily]

Let me stress again I'm not defending the religion or its practices.
I've heard (no link) that the FLDS amassed much of its fortune milking the welfare system. That makes it a racket as much as a religion.
But there is no burden of proof on the state that I can see that required them to determine who is and isn't being abused. Most of the women are out of the compound. Some of them, perhaps a majority, saw this as a way to get out of an unhappy situation. Why take their children from them?

So what makes that different from any church that gets tax breaks? They're all sheisters.

 

[crazybbwgirl]

I think that if religion expects to operate with almost total impunity, we should be able to impose church-like penalties in the event of this type of malfeasance...let's burn some motherfuckers at the stake!

Cruifixtion sounds just about right...

 

[Vikingstone]

What's dark aged about 8 nubile beauties for each decrepit old perv?

Go get the lighter fluid. A couple gallons. I got me some Saints to immolate!

 

[KRCummings]

So what makes that different from any church that gets tax breaks? They're all sheisters.

The different religions didn't ask to not pay taxes. They were told.

 

[Vikingstone]

Cruifixtion sounds just about right...

Nail 'em up then build a fire underneath!

 

[richard_daily]

The different religions didn't ask to not pay taxes. They were told.

and they complained about it incessantly, right?

 

[RoryN]

I am well aware of the FLDS. I followed the trials in Utah and Arizona closely and know children marry men, sometimes much older men. The whole thing strikes me as unsavory.

I don't know that "unsavory" is the right word here. But, anyways...

But if the government allows men to marry men and women women, I'm sure something like polygamy can be included under the big tent.

Are you suggesting that the "unsavory" factor of these scenarios is equal?

 

[dg]

Are you suggesting that the "unsavory" factor of these scenarios is equal?

I think if he were suggesting polygamy between consenting ADULTS that it would be pretty equal in that it isn't unsavory at all, but a personal choice.

 

[RoryN]

I think if he were suggesting polygamy between consenting ADULTS that it would be pretty equal in that it isn't unsavory at all, but a personal choice.

Okay - I can see that. I thought the "big tent" might be a dig, but it could just be personal preference.

 

[dg]

Okay - I can see that. I thought the "big tent" might be a dig, but it could just be personal preference.

I ignore all that is counterintuitive and try to find reason where it doesn't exist.

 

[JustSkye]

Uh yeah...just a heads-up.

Several of these girls, it was just reported, are at least 16 and under and have been found to have had 2-4 children each already. Oh, and they have found a mattress set up in one of the temples, behind the scenes, where apparently the men were or have been having sex with under age girls.


Sick fucks.

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

Okay - I can see that. I thought the "big tent" might be a dig, but it could just be personal preference.

Nah, it was a dig directed at Liberals. He used the same phrase a few days ago when that Air America radio host was canned for spewing obscenities at a company sponsored gig.

He's taking notes from Cap'n Oblivious and trying to spin everything into a partisan attack against "those evil Liberals".

 

[someplace]

I don't have much to add to the conversation except that the existence of this compound has been public knowledge for a long time. It's being reported here that this is the largest CPS (children's protective services) case in history. They've pulled their people from all over the state to work it.

I think and hope the CPS have been planning this along with law enforcement for a long time, but needed a complaint to be made in order to trigger their involvement. I don't think it was a surprise. They've wanted to get in there and get those kids out for a while.

 

[WingNut_N_Bolt]

I don't have much to add to the conversation except that the existence of this compound has been public knowledge for a long time. It's being reported here that this is the largest CPS (children's protective services) case in history. They've pulled their people from all over the state to work it.

I think and hope the CPS have been planning this along with law enforcement for a long time, but needed a complaint to be made in order to trigger their involvement. I don't think it was a surprise. They've wanted to get in there and get those kids out for a while.

But the entire case was started by a fraudalent call, there never was any "16-year-old" girl making some call about her "50-year-old" husband beating her up.

The actual caller was lying;
Rozita Swinton, 33, was arrested in Colorado Springs, Colo., and charged with false reporting to authorities in connection with the Fundamental Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints case in Texas.

 

[Ishmael]

I have a lot of thoughts on this.

First of all the entire initial assertion was fraudulent.

Up to this date there is NO evidence of child abuse. Unless you want to assert that teaching children non-traditional religious beliefs is 'abuse.' Which brings us back to AJ's question concerning the Madrassas.

In the state of Texas marriage is legal at 16 with parental consent.

If there were many wives, then the whole process falls under the bigamy laws. A felony in TX. These laws are in place to prosecute the husband, not the wives or children.

Under the age of 16 you are into statutory rape. Again these laws, and particulary in this case, would be used to prosecute the man, not punish the women and children.

In the rest of society a man can father as many children with as many different women as he can and as long as he ponies up the child support, neither the state, nor society, seem to be very concerned. As long as he doesn't marry more than one of them that is.

Conversely, a woman can have as many children with each being fathered by a different partner and as long as the state doesn't have to pony up for the support, no one cares much about that either. In some cases even if the men do pony up, that state will still throw funds into the kitty.

The state of Texas is now doing DNA tests on everyone. I'm sure someone here can explain to me exactly what that has to do with child abuse?

Without evidence of abuse, exactly what right does the state have to seperate a child from it's mother? Not allegations, not rumor, not disagreement with non-traditional religious beliefs, but actual evidence.

Why haven't any of the men been arrested and/or removed from the compound? Even the initial complaint, fraudulent as it was, identified the male as the abuser and the woman/child as the victim.

Is it beginning to seem to anyone else that it's the victims that are being punished so far?

Ishmael

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

The authorities in Texas would not have dared storm a Madrassa-Mosque compound under the same circumstances.





Their big mistake? The should have been giving sanctuary to Guatamalans...





Then they would have been untouchable. They were just white Christians, a group of no rights, just wrongs.

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

Turning the children over to the state IS the great humanitarian goal of the relavists.





Man, these kids were being HOME-SCHOOLED! That violated their right to a "government" education, which they are going to get now, the greater good having now been accomplished. We'll hire some therapists. Why, we've got government schools churning them out by the boatload...

 

[Ishmael]

Turning the children over to the state IS the great humanitarian goal of the relavists.





Man, these kids were being HOME-SCHOOLED! That violated their right to a "government" education, which they are going to get now, the greater good having now been accomplished. We'll hire some therapists. Why, we've got government schools churning them out by the boatload...

Without any hard evidence of abuse BY THE MOTHERS, I'm inclined to agree with that statement.

Ishmael

 

[someplace]

I don't know this as fact, it is merely my opinion, but I believe one of the things the dna testing is to determine siblings. CPS has made it clear that they wish to keep sibling groups together in the event they are moved to foster care.

Of course, the dna tests would also show paternity and maternity. This group has been rather closed-mouthed about who belongs to whom, so authorities have to do testing.

Every single child in this case is being represented by his or her own court-appointed lawyer. I don't know whether the women have their own lawyers. The church elders do. It's a zoo, and from what I hear, the judge over there is doing a fairly good job of keeping the legal proceedings under control. So far.

 

[someplace]

As someone who endured a CPS investigation based on fradulent charges by an angry teenage daughter, I can tell you that CPS has to act based on the information at hand. They do their investigation and then make a determination. If there are minor children involved, they can remove the children while the investigation is ongoing. Multiply that by 400 and you have the topic under discussion.

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

The only thing abused here was the sensibilities of the tolorance and diversity crowd...

 

[Ishmael]

I don't know this as fact, it is merely my opinion, but I believe one of the things the dna testing is to determine siblings. CPS has made it clear that they wish to keep sibling groups together in the event they are moved to foster care.

Of course, the dna tests would also show paternity and maternity. This group has been rather closed-mouthed about who belongs to whom, so authorities have to do testing.

Every single child in this case is being represented by his or her own court-appointed lawyer. I don't know whether the women have their own lawyers. The church elders do. It's a zoo, and from what I hear, the judge over there is doing a fairly good job of keeping the legal proceedings under control. So far.

That is the public line Some. And that evidence can by used in criminal proceedings re. the bigamy laws. And I'm quite sure it will be eventually.

But the original question still stands, "What does DNA testing have to do with child abuse?"

Ishmael

 

[Ishmael]

As someone who endured a CPS investigation based on fradulent charges by an angry teenage daughter, I can tell you that CPS has to act based on the information at hand. They do their investigation and then make a determination. If there are minor children involved, they can remove the children while the investigation is ongoing. Multiply that by 400 and you have the topic under discussion.

What happened after the charges were found to be fraudulent? Did they drop the investigation?

Ishmael

 

[someplace]

But the original question still stands, "What does DNA testing have to do with child abuse?"

Ishmael

It will tell which 14 year old had a child with which 50 yr old man, right? There's your statutory rape.

I'd have to check the law books, but I'd imagine statutory rape falls under child abuse considerations.

 

[Ishmael]

The only thing abused here was the sensibilities of the tolorance and diversity crowd...

So far the only evidence I have seen of wrong doing is bigamy and/or statutory rape. Neither of which is routinely handled by removing children from the care of the victim.

Ishmael