Dems, do you really think your vote counts?

[Jenny_Jackson]

Ever hear of "Super Delegages"? Delegates to the national convention is what the primaries are all about. The more delegates you get, the more delegates you have backing you at the convention for the nomination.

However, back in 1966 the Democratic Party changed the rules. They didn't want another George McGovern to be nominated, so, they created "Super Delegates". Who are they? All the past Democratic Presidents and all the Democrats in Congress. Do they have any affiliation or are they bound by the outcome of any of the primaries? No. They vote for whoever they want. That's how the deck was stacked.

Super Delegates make up 40% of all the delegates at the National Convention. So how does this work? Ever hear of closed, smoked filled rooms? Sounds like something from Tamminany Hall to me.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

I think I'm going to move to France...

 

[Stella_Omega]

I don't think any votes count any more.
(which won't stop me from voting, on the hope that I'm wrong.)

 

[neonlyte]

I think I'm going to move to France...

Portugal's nice And you know your vote is going to end up in a hung parliament.

 

[sr71plt]

My vote in the presidential election has never counted. Have always voted in Virginia (usually absentee). Virginia (until now) has gone Republican ever since I started voting. Traditionally, Democrats didn't even campaign here at all.

But, I have every reason to believe my vote will count this next time around. Blue is spreading across the Commonwealth, and candidates have taken notice. Every Democratic presidential candidate has put on a big rally and fund raiser in my town at least once already--and our primary doesn't happen until mid February. It helps that our former governor and one of our U.S. senators are on the midterm vice presidential list of both leading Democratic candidates. (A former Republican governor and U.S. Senator were once on the Repulicans' presidential candidate list, but their own statements and UTube wiped them out months ago.)

(And yes I know the question was about reaching the convention rather than the White House--but the ultimate vote is the latter, and the Electoral College system is just as individual voter nonfriendly as the convention selection system is.)

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

Ever hear of "Super Delegages"? Delegates to the national convention is what the primaries are all about. The more delegates you get, the more delegates you have backing you at the convention for the nomination.

However, back in 1966 the Democratic Party changed the rules. They didn't want another George McGovern to be nominated, so, they created "Super Delegates". Who are they? All the past Democratic Presidents and all the Democrats in Congress. Do they have any affiliation or are they bound by the outcome of any of the primaries? No. They vote for whoever they want. That's how the deck was stacked.

Super Delegates make up 40% of all the delegates at the National Convention. So how does this work? Ever hear of closed, smoked filled rooms? Sounds like something from Tamminany Hall to me.

JJ, the rules change took place after the McGovern debacle in '72 (not 1966). Most of the super delegates are elected officials so it's doubtful many would buck the voters back home.

Rumple Foreskin

 

[Liar]

Like sr71plt pointed out, with state electors (or any other regional representation system), only votes in swing states actually count.

Functioning democracy needs more than just the right for people to vote. You also need opportunity to vote, options to vote for, competence to vote, motivation to vote and equally counted votes.

Take your country, or any other country, and see how well those criteria apply.

"Democracy is the worst form of Government ever attempted in the world. The only exceptions to this are all the other ones tried."
-W Churchill

 

[cantdog]

You have put your rhetorical fingertip on the nub of the problem, Liar, as you do so often.

The electoral college idea is one of the features of our constitution which was bettered by later ones. It's a bad idea.

No one dares try to reform it, though.

 

[Carnevil9]

Super Delegates, and primary elections in general, are NOT a part of the US government. They are creations of the parties, which are independent, non-governmental entities. They are not bound by the Constitution, logic, morality, or any other nicety of society. Political parties are private clubs that do as they wish. You are free to not play with them.

When it comes to the general election, which IS a function of the government, you can hope (maybe not get, but hope) for fair and lawful performance. Don't look for it in the private organization of the Democratic or Republican Parties.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Like sr71plt pointed out, with state electors (or any other regional representation system), only votes in swing states actually count.

Functioning democracy needs more than just the right for people to vote. You also need opportunity to vote, options to vote for, competence to vote, motivation to vote and equally counted votes.

Take your country, or any other country, and see how well those criteria apply.

"Democracy is the worst form of Government ever attempted in the world. The only exceptions to this are all the other ones tried."
-W Churchill

Votes in all states count, but swing states or battleground states, such as Florida and Ohio, get the most attention. This is because there are about the same number of Dems as Reps in those states, so the candidates campaign hard to get their supporters out to vote. California, with more electors than any other state, is pretty much conceded to the Dems, so neither party campaigns here very much. This is not a complaint, by the way. I have no great love for political ads.

 

[keeblercrumb]

Ever hear of "Super Delegages"? Delegates to the national convention is what the primaries are all about. The more delegates you get, the more delegates you have backing you at the convention for the nomination.

However, back in 1966 the Democratic Party changed the rules. They didn't want another George McGovern to be nominated, so, they created "Super Delegates". Who are they? All the past Democratic Presidents and all the Democrats in Congress. Do they have any affiliation or are they bound by the outcome of any of the primaries? No. They vote for whoever they want. That's how the deck was stacked.

Super Delegates make up 40% of all the delegates at the National Convention. So how does this work? Ever hear of closed, smoked filled rooms? Sounds like something from Tamminany Hall to me.

Your point about the "Super Delegates" is well taken.... and I agree with it... I think you may have dropped a digit in your year thing.... As it happens, I just finished reading (for the first time! LOL) Hunter S. Thompson's "Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail, 1972" which was about McGovern's ill fated campaign.... (Or...."How not to win an election"... Rudy may write a new chapter in that book)..... 1976 maybe? Jimmy Carter was the recipient....

As for voting, ever since I was a kid I loved playing with the voting machines... all those cool little switches and levers and stuff.... "Ka-Chunk"... I love that!! I almost gave up on the voting thing when I moved to California and was subjected to the punch card BS... very unsatisfying....

My favorite place to vote was in North Carolina.... I loved voting in the myriad local elections for Dog Catcher, etc... I ALWAYS crossed party lines to vote for the guy with the best nickname... (Women never have nicknames they apply to themselves...... hmmmm)

Ever since I voted for Eldridge Cleaver in 1968, I have had no expectation that my vote actually mattered....

But those cool machines.......... Worth lining up for!

-KC

 

[Boxlicker101]

Your point about the "Super Delegates" is well taken.... and I agree with it... I think you may have dropped a digit in your year thing.... As it happens, I just finished reading (for the first time! LOL) Hunter S. Thompson's "Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail, 1972" which was about McGovern's ill fated campaign.... (Or...."How not to win an election"... Rudy may write a new chapter in that book)..... 1976 maybe? Jimmy Carter was the recipient....

As for voting, ever since I was a kid I loved playing with the voting machines... all those cool little switches and levers and stuff.... "Ka-Chunk"... I love that!! I almost gave up on the voting thing when I moved to California and was subjected to the punch card BS... very unsatisfying....

My favorite place to vote was in North Carolina.... I loved voting in the myriad local elections for Dog Catcher, etc... I ALWAYS crossed party lines to vote for the guy with the best nickname... (Women never have nicknames they apply to themselves...... hmmmm)

Ever since I voted for Eldridge Cleaver in 1968, I have had no expectation that my vote actually mattered....

But those cool machines.......... Worth lining up for!

-KC

If you voted for that notorious rapist in 1968, you're right. Your vote didn't count. He was under 35 years old and not eligible to run. Cleaver's candidacy was just a protest. Some protest. It probably helped elect Nixon.

 

[keeblercrumb]

If you voted for that notorious rapist in 1968, you're right. Your vote didn't count. He was under 35 years old and not eligible to run. Cleaver's candidacy was just a protest. Some protest. It probably helped elect Nixon.

Yeah... you are right.... But he wanted to re-name the President's Residency to the "Black House" and that was good enough for me at the time. At the time, I was on my way "over there" and my Brother had been killed in the Tet Offensive. So please excuse my impetuous youthful vote against the "pro-war" and "pro-war" candidate choice. If there was ever a time for a symbolic "protest" vote, it seems to me, that was it.


-KC

 

[sr71plt]

If you voted for that notorious rapist in 1968, you're right. Your vote didn't count. He was under 35 years old and not eligible to run. Cleaver's candidacy was just a protest. Some protest. It probably helped elect Nixon.

I remember the look on Julian Bond's face at the 1968 Democratic Convention after, having been nominated for president there, a TV newsman had to inform him that he was too young to actually run for president. I mentioned that to Bond not long ago (until recently he lived in my town and taught at my university here), and he said that, indeed, he'd had no idea at the time there was a minimum age limit on being president.