Underage incest fantasys

[Boxlicker101]

the chastity belt thing is for people who don't have enough common sense in thier head to keep thier legs shut so they dont have to pay the consequences of getting pregnant before they are ready to raise a child. I would reccomend that for anyone, under and OVER eighteen. There were six 7th graders when I was in High school that had kids of thier own. kids at that age are a major burden, and I do not believe in abortion.

"I'd watch out, dude... 'cause you're on a watch list now--the word for you in the next 2 years should be 'entrapment'. I'd also buy one of those hidden camera sweepers."

Were you talking to me or the guy who started this thread? Oh and BTW Im a girl.

Actually, I think Elsol was addressing me. I'm a guy. And here is the sarcastic emoticom:

 

[Guest]

. . . . .

 

[amicus]

Sure, but its okay for ami to advocate child sex and for you to want to write it, but then you read all sorts of things into Dr. M's post that aren't there.

Yep, Stella's right...."misread" is a wonderful name for you. And, I agree...grow up.

~~~

Cloudy I don't mind you being bitchy at me for any of several reasons, but unless my words were really ambiguous, which I try not to be, I have never advocated child sex, merely that it does happen and should not be a taboo subject to write about and publish.

Since, by definition, anything under the magical age of eigheen is 'child sex' to you and since even today, marriage is legal at age 16 in some states, I think that arbitrary, extended to even writing about it represents censorship and this site above all resists all efforts at such restrictions.

I am really surprised you folks just don't get it.

Ami

 

[Varian P]

...She has suffered no trauma of any kind, and it's not until years later that she learns she has been bad, and her loving daddy was an evil man, does any psychological trauma occur. This is purely hypothetical, of course.

It occurred to me long ago that one reason--perhaps the main reason--many kinds of sexual abuse are horrifically traumatic is not inherent in what happens between the victim and the assailant, but is a consequence of the act of assault coming into contact with society's judgment of it.

In many cultures in many eras, a woman who was raped was treated as an outcast, or at least lost a lot of value society placed/places on chaste or virginal women. Depending on the nature of the assault, the fallout from family and broader society can actually be even more awful than the rape itself.

In the scenario you describe, I can imagine that interaction between parent and child not being inherently traumatic to the child. But children don't live in a vacuum. They will come to see any such encounter through the lens of the society they're raised in, and in that context it's a cruel betrayal by one of the people a child should most be able to trust.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Box - sorry to single you out. No disrespect intended. I was trying to make a point that was missed, anyway.

No problem. No offense taken.

By the way, congratulations to the Jayhawks.

 

[ms.read]

~~~

Cloudy I don't mind you being bitchy at me for any of several reasons, but unless my words were really ambiguous, which I try not to be, I have never advocated child sex, merely that it does happen and should not be a taboo subject to write about and publish.

Since, by definition, anything under the magical age of eigheen is 'child sex' to you and since even today, marriage is legal at age 16 in some states, I think that arbitrary, extended to even writing about it represents censorship and this site above all resists all efforts at such restrictions.

I am really surprised you folks just don't get it.

Ami

I wasn't going to touch this one, but damn...

It occurred to me long ago that one reason--perhaps the main reason--many kinds of sexual abuse are horrifically traumatic is not inherent in what happens between the victim and the assailant, but is a consequence of the act of assault coming into contact with society's judgment of it.

In many cultures in many eras, a woman who was raped was treated as an outcast, or at least lost a lot of value society placed/places on chaste or virginal women. Depending on the nature of the assault, the fallout from family and broader society can actually be even more awful than the rape itself.

In the scenario you describe, I can imagine that interaction between parent and child not being inherently traumatic to the child. But children don't live in a vacuum. They will come to see any such encounter through the lens of the society they're raised in, and in that context it's a cruel betrayal by one of the people a child should most be able to trust.

To a point ( if I don't think about it too hard) I can agree with what varian is saying.

So this is addressed to you amicus. I don't like censorship much either, but if pedophilia is so looked down upon by society, why would anyone want to write a piece of erotic fiction about it when there isn't a sympathetic audience to read it?

 

[amicus]

Varian P....I could not agree with you more...a very difficult subject and issue.

Considering the statistics I have seen, although I suggest it may be largely specualation and interpolation, a quarter of all boys and a third of all girls are in some way sexually molested or abused as children.

The carry that with them the rest of their lives and the case histories I have read suggest that it is a burden to them forever.

But transpose those percentages to the population at large and turn them into numbers and that means tens of millions become adults with repressed and hidden sexual trauma.

That translates to one our of every three women on this forum were sexually abused as children and we are forbidden to write and publish about it and the taboo is so strong that few can even stomach discussing it, something made very evident by the visciousness displayed on this forum thus far.

Food for thought?

Amicus...

 

[Guest]

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[NorCalGirl]

Deleted as I didn't realize this thread had continued on way past what I read!

 

[Boxlicker101]

Since you said you'd love to have a woman's perspective, here's mine:

What two consenting adults choose to do is their business and I don't care what it is. Involving a child crosses a line that should not be crossed. Period.

Losing your virginity at age 15 -- a 15 should be emotionally immature, that's the nature of adolescence. At this age, a child needs parents who will look out for their best interests even more than ever, not take their childhood away from them.

Losing your faith and trust in your father at any age -- painful doesn't even begin to cut it. The "emotional rewards" are a damaged psyche, a possible inability to trust any men for the rest of your life, and a much increased chance you will turn to drugs, alcohol, or other destructive behavior to help numb the pain.

Statistics would seem to bear me out. Although studies are just that, a sampling of the population, and can be skewed, reputable studies have shown that adolescents who suffer violent victimization are at risk for being victims or perpetrators of felony assault, domestic violence, and property offense as adults. In addition, nearly 50% of women in prison state that they were abused as children. More than 75% of teenage prostitutes have been sexually abused. It's not very erotic, is it?

Think about it, if you must. But for anyone considering acting on such an impulse, don't.

And that's this woman's woman's perspective.

Norcal, I don't know if you noticed or not, but Riffraff posted that almost eight years ago, and he hasn't been back since.

 

[Stella_Omega]

~~~

Cloudy I don't mind you being bitchy at me for any of several reasons, but unless my words were really ambiguous, which I try not to be, I have never advocated child sex, merely that it does happen and should not be a taboo subject to write about and publish.

Since, by definition, anything under the magical age of eigheen is 'child sex' to you and since even today, marriage is legal at age 16 in some states, I think that arbitrary, extended to even writing about it represents censorship and this site above all resists all efforts at such restrictions.

I am really surprised you folks just don't get it.

Ami

You are at perfect liberty to write about underage sex. It's a big interweb-- You are not chained to this one site alone. If I want to write about 17-year-olds, I know where to publish.

And you keep pretending we are talking about seventeen year olds, when post after post addresses the very young. You must be not reading anything anyone says-- but that's only to be expected.


Varian, that post of yours sums it up an important and huge part of the puzzle-- beautifully

 

[amicus]

Welcome to the forum NorCalGirl...taking what you said and a recent post of mine into consideration...and having personal knowledge of a young rape victim, I think there is a need for literature that deals with the healing processes that might take place to deal with such traumatic events.

I dealt with several cases in my "Billy" series, posted here on Lit. and I think there does exist a need for literature concerning such events and the possible ways to recover so that one might at least have a chance to pick up the pieces and move on from a shattered life.

I am sure no one on this forum will appreciate my methodology in the stories, but then, who asked them anyway...I did deal with the subjects in what I thought was a gentle and patient manner.

Amicus...

 

[Stella_Omega]

yes, there is a need for literature that deals with the healing necessary after a young woman has been abused.

No, I can't imagine that I would respect your methodology, having been a witness to the quality of your knowledge and understanding, and the sheer speshulness of respect you show for women.

 

[Varian P]

What I mean about imagination and lying is this: Is it okay with you morally to write stories you know are lies? That Jews enjoyed marching to the gas chambers? That blacks enjoyed slavery? That women enjoy rape? That women are inferior to men?

Those are all works of imagination, but they're not okay for me to write myself, because I know them to be lies and my conscience would bother me. I see my job as an author to be primarily one of uncovering the truths of the world, and while I may bend these truths for the sake of entertainment or to get at other truths, I have my limits.

I suppose I could imagine a case where a pre-teen enjoys sex with her father, but it would be so exceptional and anomalous that I'd might as well write about her enjoying sex with a rhinocerous. And even so, my first source of emotional information on father-daughter incest is going to be my own feelings towards my daughter, just as if I were writing about a death my first source of emotional information would be my own reaction to death, because my experiences are reality to me.

And why shouldn't they be? What am I avoiding by ignoring my own fatherly feelings? Is there something in there that's too shameful to be faced so that the only way I can write dad-daughter incest is by using imagined surrogates whose emotions are safely insulated and sanitized so that they no longer threaten me or anyone? That seems to be the tactic I usually see in incest stories.

Write what you know is the dictum, and if you want to write father-daughter incest, then start with the honest story of you fucking your own daughter. Anything else is a cop-out.

I confess I haven't read the entire thread, so forgive me if I take your post out of context.

Personally, I write two kinds of fiction (thought they often overlap). In one, I attempt to explore truths. In the other, I explore my erotic fantasies.

As I've just been blathering about endlessly in another thread, whether I'm writing erotic fantasy or exploring truths, I'm often writing about non-consent or rape. It's a vast, murky, psychologically complex zone for me, where feelings of rage over the reality of sexual violence mingle uncomfortably with my life-long response of being aroused by rape fantasies.

When I finally starting turning these fantasies into fiction, I agonized some over the morality of putting my stories into the public forum. I still feel squeamish at times at the thought that someone somewhere might read something I've written and come away from it thinking somewhere out there is an eighteen year-old girl who'd really profit from being abducted and forced to act out the erotic scenarios she'd penned.

I've dealt with some of that guilt by writing more stories in which men who perpetrate sexual violence get repaid in kind, with interest.

But I've also reasoned that the fantasy, itself, is a kind of truth. I'd never wish for an actual assault, but the fantasy is a big part of my sex life. Writing about it is an important outlet, and I know from feedback I get that reading about it is equally so for others.

I've seen academic studies that claim porn incites men to sexual violence, and I've seen academic studies that claim porn alleviates the drive to commit sexual violence. I don't know which is right, or if both are right, depending on other variables. Ultimately, even though I think the media we consume shapes how we see the world, I find it hard to believe that anyone's switch is going to be suddenly flipped because they read a story which portrayed a woman enjoying being raped, or a child being molested.

I'm far more inclined to believe that being able to write and read stories that explore taboo fantasies provides a safe outlet for desires that could only be acted on illegally and at great harm to another person.

ETA: Your point, Dr. M., about being a father and writing father-daughter incest, is a powerful one. I've often thought that I write my con-con stuff from a relatively safe place, in that I'm a woman writing (usually) about women being coerced. I know I'd be far more uncomfortable with these fantasies if I were a man getting turned on by the idea of abducting women and doing all manner of vile things to them. Incest is a safe zone for me, as well, since I grew up without a father or any male family members, and I have no children to encroach on such fantasies uncomfortably. If I were writing from the place of someone doing the raping/molesting, it would be far, far scarier.

 

[elsol]

Although I don't want to get into the habit of agreeing with Amicus, I believe he does have a point. Sexual activity between an adult and a very young child doesn't have to be traumatic, and can actually be pleasurable for both. Here is the kind of thing I mean, although I don't know how common this might be.

A loving father says to his six year old daughter: "Princess, I've got a real fun game I want to play with you."

And the loving daughter responds: "Okay, Daddy."

And the game turns out to be mutual masturbation. He cums all over her soft little hands and he gently rubs her slit until she gets a nice, warm feeling, and they both enjoy it. She enjoys doing something nice with her daddy and for him, and also the nice feeling he gave her. He gets his rocks off.

She has suffered no trauma of any kind, and it's not until years later that she learns she has been bad, and her loving daddy was an evil man, does any psychological trauma occur. This is purely hypothetical, of course.

I also realize that vaginal or anal rape by her father would be very traumatic, both physically and emotionally and every other way. As I said, it depends on what is done and who does it.

This puts forth the position that a violation or the wrongness of the act is dependent on trauma. Is that acceptable to you?

Fuck Trauma --> I can imagine a circumstance where slavery is BENEFICIAL to everyone involved... there's a lot of starving children around the world... I get work done around the house... they get fed... When is the chubby blonde lady going to be on TV next, talking about starving children, and how for the price of a coffee I can buy one and make their life better?

I've got a name for it: BS --> benevolent slavery.

And really it cannot be AMICUS... putting forward the position that the act is relative... it has no independent wrongness, not-wrongness, or rightness.

 

[amicus]

This puts forth the position that a violation or the wrongness of the act is dependent on trauma. Is that acceptable to you?

Fuck Trauma --> I can imagine a circumstance where slavery is BENEFICIAL to everyone involved... there's a lot of starving children around the world... I get work done around the house... they get fed... When is the chubby blonde lady going to be on TV next, talking about starving children, and how for the price of a coffee I can buy one and make their life better?

I've got a name for it: BS --> benevolent slavery.

And really it cannot be AMICUS... putting forward the position that the act is relative... it has no independent wrongness, not-wrongness, or rightness.

~~~

El Sol, I find the scenario created by Boxlicker, repugnant and obscene and something I cannot imagine a father doing...and that is not at all the reason I decided to participate early on in this thread and if read through it that should be obvious.

Not sure I can condense this, but human sexuality does not click on the moment the eighteenth birthday arrives, and it is different for each as we are all separate individuals with different desires and emotions.

I am a guy, I know I was grabbing my cock when I was a little boy because it felt good. It came as somewhat a surprise to learn that little girls enjoyed touching themselves also.

Playing 'doctor' was something I think most of us tried at a very early age when we got past the yucky stage about the other sex.

Human sexual development, since it begins at such an early age, and influences the rest of our lives, should be an area of intense interest to writer's but the arbitrary censorship on this site and most sites, forbids us to exchange thoughts, ideas, and fictions about it and I object to that.

Nothing more, nothing less. Some asshole chided me for using anime' girls as avatars. Like I should feel guilty at admiring young females, nymph's, waif's, carefree feminine forms dancing near naked in the forest?

They are and always have been the essence of the art of admiring the female form and occupy a huge space in the artistic endeavors of the world.

If fantasizing about young girls dancing naked in your dreams troubles you, get thineself to a nunnery...

Amicus....

 

[Boxlicker101]

~~~

El Sol, I find the scenario created by Boxlicker, repugnant and obscene and something I cannot imagine a father doing...and that is not at all the reason I decided to participate early on in this thread and if read through it that should be obvious.

Not sure I can condense this, but human sexuality does not click on the moment the eighteenth birthday arrives, and it is different for each as we are all separate individuals with different desires and emotions.

I am a guy, I know I was grabbing my cock when I was a little boy because it felt good. It came as somewhat a surprise to learn that little girls enjoyed touching themselves also.

Playing 'doctor' was something I think most of us tried at a very early age when we got past the yucky stage about the other sex.

Human sexual development, since it begins at such an early age, and influences the rest of our lives, should be an area of intense interest to writer's but the arbitrary censorship on this site and most sites, forbids us to exchange thoughts, ideas, and fictions about it and I object to that.

Nothing more, nothing less. Some asshole chided me for using anime' girls as avatars. Like I should feel guilty at admiring young females, nymph's, waif's, carefree feminine forms dancing near naked in the forest?

They are and always have been the essence of the art of admiring the female form and occupy a huge space in the artistic endeavors of the world.

If fantasizing about young girls dancing naked in your dreams troubles you, get thineself to a nunnery...

Amicus....

To be honest aout it, I felt the scene to be repugnant also, although not obscene. I can certainly imagine fathers doing this and far worse things to their young daughters, because I read about it in the newspaper. At the same time, it would actually be enjoyable to the girl, at least at the time, and if he never did it again, it would probably never bother her.

 

[amicus]

To be honest aout it, I felt the scene to be repugnant also, although not obscene. I can certainly imagine fathers doing this and far worse things to their young daughters, because I read about it in the newspaper. At the same time, it would actually be enjoyable to the girl, at least at the time, and if he never did it again, it would probably never bother her.

~~~

I am going to expound on this a little, Box...for several reasons, perhaps to attempt to establish a rapport with you, whoever you are, to continue the thread, and to relate some, ah, opinions, observations, not sure of the right word.

I think I have mentioned on this forum that I raised five daughters, from the baby stage on up to puberty and never had even the slightest sexual attraction to any of them.

I discovered that girls were different. They like to 'show off', they like to be seen, they love to be touched and held and fondled and cuddled. Boys don't, at least not nearly to the same degree, personal observation, take it or leave it.

Aside from changing really yucky diapers, I had to ask the wife, uhm, how do I wipe this without...ahm...?

Getting fecal matter into the vagina, to be clinical, but hell, I had to learn sometime.

Of course, I bathed them in a bathtub and at about two, said, "clean your bottom too!"

A little bit older and I was banned from the bath, fine with me, I just blow dried hair and toweled them off, and then, not even that as their 'privates' became, private indeed, even to dad.

I never went around naked before any of my children, I have a rather long dong and that was private too, again, take that or leave it as you may.

So...I suppose I could, 'imagine' as you put it, those perverse things that others may do, but I prefer not to for my own reasons, it it not an area of interest to me, suffice it to say.

Although this is not the area of my interest, I don't mind discussing them, but my reason for participating in this thread is more an interest in the normal, whatever that means, sexual development that occurs post menses.

Since part of my career involved being around students, from grade school through college, part of my job was to observe and report on events that these children participated in so that I could photograph them and write a little blurb and get a kids name in the local paper.

I could not help but smile at my own remembrances of youth when I watched these young children, a generation and more later, playing the same sexual games in school that I used to.

It did lead me to some conclusions that perhaps most are not fortunate enough to be exposed to. Kids are sexy even at that very early age. Of course I knew that as a participant, but to objectively observe it, was an awakening and and interesting one.

How old is a seventh grader? Eleven, twelve? Hell, I was trying to get laid under the bleachers at that age and I know damned well, everyone of you on this forum knows exactly what I am talking about.

But you are forbidden to write about it and you are frightened to death to even talk of it with any degree of honesty.

And that troubles me...especially here on this perverted forum.

Amicus...

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Dr M. (whispering ) pretty please dont say stuff about fingers and kids in the same sentance unless they are picking thier nose? Please?

I apologize for upsetting you, ms.read, but my point was exactly that: to shock, disgust, nauseate, and remind us just what we're talking about when we're talking about underage incest. We might think we're opening the door to tales of some sort expression of tender physical love between a father and a daughter, but you'd better be ready for these kinds of stories as well. I wanted people to think about that.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

I am really surprised you folks just don't get it.

No you're not. Neither am I.

The point of this thread, from the very beginning, has been to talk about fantasy.

F-A-N-T-A-S-Y

Not reality. Not the actual fucking of a three year old by an adult, which is abhorrent, is illegal, and should be.

Not that we can't talk about that. We can, and should. But let's not confuse that with FANTASY.

We might think we're opening the door to tales of some sort expression of tender physical love between a father and a daughter, but you'd better be ready for these kinds of stories as well. I wanted people to think about that.

The point of a door is for it to be opened. Pandora's Box didn't stay closed - for a reason. All the ills of the world needed to be released. The Garden of Eden was never meant to stay. We have to eat from the Tree of Knowledge as well.

Your pillar in the garden was meant to be uprooted, Doc.

All of those stories need to be told. It may not be the story for YOU. The stories that resonate with you will not always be the ones that resonate for me. Our psyches are different.

So the story of the enslaved woman, who wants to be enslaved, needs to be told. The story of the rape of a woman and her revenge on the man who raped her needs to be told. The story between a stepfather and daughter, who end up living their whole lives that way, needs to be told. The story of sex between a stepfather and daughter, where the daughter tells, and isn't believed by the mother, and the whole family is torn apart by all of it, needs to be told.

There are an infinite amount of variations on the story. As many as we can possible imagine - and more. They all need to be told.

I get the feeling in this thread that there are people who believe there are stories that SHOULD NEVER BE TOLD. That censorship, the choking moralism you are trying to shove down someone else's throat because you can't handle your own feelings about something, is no better than the rape of a child, the enslavement of another human being, the torture of a small animal.

The more you repress something, the bigger it gets. The more you deny something, the more it demands to be seen.

Just let the stories out. Let the stories free. Let them be what they are, let them resonate with the people who need to hear them. Even if it's not your story. Let it be.

 

[Pure]

note to box.

as to your vignette,

boxSexual activity between an adult and a very young child doesn't have to be traumatic, and can actually be pleasurable for both. Here is the kind of thing I mean, although I don't know how common this might be.

A loving father says to his six year old daughter: "Princess, I've got a real fun game I want to play with you."

And the loving daughter responds: "Okay, Daddy."

And the game turns out to be mutual masturbation. He cums all over her soft little hands and he gently rubs her slit until she gets a nice, warm feeling, and they both enjoy it. She enjoys doing something nice with her daddy and for him, and also the nice feeling he gave her. He gets his rocks off.

She has suffered no trauma of any kind,
===
[another posting]
At the same time, it would actually be enjoyable to the girl, at least at the time, and if he never did it again, it would probably never bother her.
===

P: that's creepy stuff, box. it's postable, of course, at some porn fantasy sites.

the REALY creepy thing is that you seem to think you're talking fact., or addressing the issue of trauma for a "very young child."

you seem to think that STATING "she suffered no trauma" makes it so.

here is a parallel to your fantasy method. to prove GANG RAPE CAN BE without trauma.

PURE applies BOX'S method to gang rape:

Forced sexual activity, rape, between gang and a young woman doesn't have to be traumatic, and can actually be pleasurable for both. Here is the kind of thing I mean, although I don't know how common this might be.

A horny gang takes the young woman to somewhere private and says to her: "Honey, we've got a real fun game we want to play with you."

And the young woman responds: "Okay, guys."

And the game turns out to be a series of penetrations. They rub her and get her pussy dripping and hot. They cum all into her soft little pussy and they slip into her butt, that they've lubricated, until she gets a nice, warm feeling, and they all enjoy it. She enjoys doing something nice with the guys, and also the nice feeling they gave her. They get their rocks off.

She has suffered no trauma of any kind.

QED.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

I get the feeling in this thread that there are people who believe there are stories that SHOULD NEVER BE TOLD. That censorship, the choking moralism you are trying to shove down someone else's throat because you can't handle your own feelings about something, is no better than the rape of a child, the enslavement of another human being, the torture of a small animal.

The more you repress something, the bigger it gets. The more you deny something, the more it demands to be seen.

Just let the stories out. Let the stories free. Let them be what they are, let them resonate with the people who need to hear them. Even if it's not your story. Let it be.

No, I don't think there are any stories that should never be told. Everyone can tell their own. That's free speech and I support it entirely.

But I don't think anyone has the right to insist on the kind of stories I should tell, or to to say that all stories are equally truthful or equally harmless. A story is information, and information is not harmless.

 

[Pure]

note to doc

A story is information, and information is not harmless.

no, not in the usual sense. there are a number of papers on the topic of the sentence in fiction.

"sherlock holmes returned home to xx Baker St.." OR "Kitty came on Daddy's dickl"

are more like "Let's suppose...." OR

"It's not true, but imagine, if you will...."

So no 'information' is imparted. it's not "information" that Sherlock lived at xx Baker St.

As related to this thread, the only "information" i learn is that Doyle IMAGINED a detective like Sherlock. the Lite writer IMAGINED a girl like Kitty, enjoying her dad without guilt. (I suppose it's "information" that Doyle's character "lived", in the story at xx Baker St. But that's NOT about any real person. It's like "Peter Rabbit lived in a particular hole.")

I don't necessarily know anything more about detectives. I can't say 'detectives often take cocaine." I don't REALLY know about coeds: that they sometimes like to fuck Daddy.


Learning of imaginings has its point, of course, if they're well told and complex, e.g. the scenes of Sade. BUT they don't directly tell about the actual world ---except that people are damn horny, and often agressive about it.

 

[cantdog]

If I imagined that writing something would never have the remotest effect on a reader, I would surely never bother.

 

[ms.read]

This is addressed to Dr. M, Amicus, and Box.

I love free speech. Yes, a person should be able to say anything or write anything they want.

This is addressing the fantasy of minors having sex.

Kids are not sexy. They are learning the boundaries of their sexuality.

Why would anyone want to write a fantasy about kids and adults doing sexual acts with eachother?

What kind of audience is the author looking for that would enjoy that kind of story?


anyone feel free to reply.