Underage incest fantasys

[cantdog]

Well ,shit, ms. r, that's easy.

1) you'd write it if you also felt the pull of that fantasy.

2) some of us are writing in EVERY cat, either for Survivor or for other reasons.

3) you'd write it for a specific person, on request.

that's three reasons to write such a story, right there.

Now, consider the answer ALREADY POSTED which you forgot already, even though it was barely seven posts ago:

So the story of the enslaved woman, who wants to be enslaved, needs to be told. The story of the rape of a woman and her revenge on the man who raped her needs to be told. The story of underage incest between a father and daughter, who end up living their whole lives that way, needs to be told. The story of underage incest between a father and daughter, where the daughter tells, and isn't believed by the mother, and the whole family is torn apart by all of it, needs to be told.

There are an infinite amount of variations on the story. As many as we can possible imagine - and more. They all need to be told.

I get the feeling in this thread that there are people who believe there are stories that SHOULD NEVER BE TOLD. That censorship, the choking moralism you are trying to shove down someone else's throat because you can't handle your own feelings about something, is no better than the rape of a child, the enslavement of another human being, the torture of a small animal.

The more you repress something, the bigger it gets. The more you deny something, the more it demands to be seen.

Now as to the audience? See above.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I get the feeling in this thread that there are people who believe there are stories that SHOULD NEVER BE TOLD. That censorship, the choking moralism you are trying to shove down someone else's throat because you can't handle your own feelings about something, is no better than the rape of a child, the enslavement of another human being, the torture of a small animal.

Of course there are people who believe this! Ms.Read, for instance, has such difficulty with the concept that she can't conceive that her feelings are not universal.

There are stories that I, personally do not ever wish to tell, or be told. And, in this discussion, I've said why, pretty clearly, I think.

But my values cannot, and never should, stop you, or anyone else from writing or reading them. I don't see why this should even be in doubt!

I won't celebrate these point of views, but I'll defend your right to show them.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

I won't celebrate these point of views, but I'll defend your right to show them.

Exactly.

 

[ms.read]

Stella, thank you for using me as an example. I have just come to a road block I guess. I guess, morally speaking, i just don't get it, when reading underage porn.

We all have our little kinks, I suppose. I will not be the one to point a finger and say, just because someone likes little boys that they should have thier head examined. I will be there to arrest him if he decides to act on those desires in such a way that it would harm a little boy though.

I think that writing down one's desires, may in fact help supress the need to actually do the act they are writing down(if they are harmful).

But who are we ( as a society) to condemn a person for acting on thier desires?

 

[BlackSnake]

I was wondering if It reading and writing about underage incest fantays..especially about younger girls....is as disgusting as I sometimes feel it is. I do NOT condone Kiddy porn NOR sexual abuse in any way of minors, but it is still a fantasy of mine....but not that I wan't to be WITH the girl, but that I wan't to BE the girl....so would writing fantays like that make me a bad person?

I think that what you think about yourself is most important. As you can see, people have their own opinions. What will matter most is how you perceive yourself.

If this was written just for the joy of starting a riot, then take a look at the responses.

 

[RoniB]

shadow

 

[BlackSnake]

Hmmmm.....writing people under the age of 18 engaged in sexual active escapes the Federal Child Pornography laws. However, the is the obscenity laws to deal with. Here is a bit for the interested.

Freedom of expression has contributed much to the development and wellbeing of our free society. In the exercise of the First Amendment right to free expression which everyone enjoys, sex may be portrayed, and the subject of sex may be discussed, freely and publicly. Although material is not to be condemned merely because it contains passages or sequences that describe or depict sexual activity, the courts have consistently held that the right to free expression does not extend to material which is obscene.

Obscene depictions of sexual conduct are subject to federal criminal laws regarding importation, transportation and distribution. CEOS works with the 93 United States Attorneys' offices around the country and investigative agencies to enforce these statutes. The United States Supreme Court, in Miller v. California, 413 U.S. 15 (1973), established a three-part test for determining whether a depiction is obscene:

1. Whether the average person would find that the work, taken as a whole and applying contemporary community standards, appeals to the prurient interest;

2. Whether the work depicts or describes sexual conduct in a patently offensive way, when applying contemporary community standards; and

3. Whether the work, taken as a whole, lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value.

Regardless of the prevalence of sexually explicit images in society, in the media, and on the Internet, the Miller test remains the standard by which depictions of sexual conduct are judged.

If you write it will you win part 3?

 

[BlackSnake]

...
But i swear to God, i would give up all of my freedoms, all of my rights and liberties if this could ensure that NO-ONE EVER, EVER, EVER LAID A HAND ON MY SON OR DAUGHTER, or ever wrote about touching my son or daughter.

If they did, then it wouldn't be fiction, would it? Eventually, your son and daughter will become adults, god willing. They will still be your son and daughter. I understand your passion, but are we referring to fiction or real life issues?

 

[Stella_Omega]

Stella, thank you for using me as an example. I have just come to a road block I guess. I guess, morally speaking, i just don't get it, when reading underage porn....

...But who are we ( as a society) to condemn a person for acting on thier desires?

"An it harm none, do as thou will"
It harms no one (else) if you fantasize nor will it harm anyone (else) if you write your fantasies. AS to whether it harms anyone else if you share what you've written, that would be for each person to decide. Richard Burton (The explorer, not the actor) translated the "Thousand and One nights' into English, and a whole lot of other Persian works as well. because she deemed his materials to be far too racy, his widow burned trunks of his life's work. I think she must be burning in hell for that-- i think it was a crime.

But i swear to God, i would give up all of my freedoms, all of my rights and liberties if this could ensure that NO-ONE EVER, EVER, EVER LAID A HAND ON MY SON OR DAUGHTER, or ever wrote about touching my son or daughter.

(out of a hundred possible responses) A plot bunny! A woman willingly subjects herself to complete slavery, in order to ensure her children remain hidden away for life, in deep dark secluded convents...

 

[RoniB]

shadow

 

[Selena_Kitt]

I had hoped to convey that i would stop at nothing to protect my children from molestation ...

I would venture to say that we all would - every single person who has posted on this thread since it was brought up again.

You aren't alone in that.

 

[Stella_Omega]

So while i'm on that rant, i'll throw this little gem in: Is there nothing at least a little more lofty one might write about than child molestation? Regardless of whether there may be an audience for it? Is there absolutely nothing more constructive one could do at that or any moment in time?

*exasperation*

Who's stopping you?

 

[gauchecritic]

A story is information, and information is not harmless.

no, not in the usual sense. there are a number of papers on the topic of the sentence in fiction.

"sherlock holmes returned home to xx Baker St.." OR "Kitty came on Daddy's dickl"

are more like "Let's suppose...." OR

"It's not true, but imagine, if you will...."

So no 'information' is imparted. it's not "information" that Sherlock lived at xx Baker St.

As related to this thread, the only "information" i learn is that Doyle IMAGINED a detective like Sherlock. the Lite writer IMAGINED a girl like Kitty, enjoying her dad without guilt. (I suppose it's "information" that Doyle's character "lived", in the story at xx Baker St. But that's NOT about any real person. It's like "Peter Rabbit lived in a particular hole.")

I don't necessarily know anything more about detectives. I can't say 'detectives often take cocaine." I don't REALLY know about coeds: that they sometimes like to fuck Daddy.


Learning of imaginings has its point, of course, if they're well told and complex, e.g. the scenes of Sade. BUT they don't directly tell about the actual world ---except that people are damn horny, and often agressive about it.

I really can't see that Pure, even though the dictionaries agree with you. However imaginary he is, is it not still common knowledge or fact that Sherlock Homes lived at 221b Baker Street irregardless of the reality of either.

The point is moot anyway when you consider readership. A great many readers take every detail in our stories as fact or real life. So, to the reader every sentence is information in the strictest sense.

In the context of art it doesn't matter a jot that no one will be brought to trial for their incestuous relationship with their parents. In art, it's the interface that matters.

The whole basis for being transported in writing is the suspension of disbelief. If you are willing to accept what happens as fact. When that is your whole aim in writing or reading then you are dealing with information.

 

[cantdog]

The following are various statements made by Ms.Read over the last couple days, within this post. (My sparkling comments in bold):

"Let's get this straight, whether you (the thinker, writer, and /or reader of child porn) like to think, write, or read child porn meaning anything under the age of eighteen here, Laurel and Manu don't want themselves or thier website being associated with anything of that sort, because the people who tend to roam in those circles (such as yourselves) tend to get yourself into some illegal trouble. So, you are allowed to think about the sexual activities of people of a minor age, it is illegal to distribute and or hold any kind of matter pertaining to that subject. SO STOP SPEWING YOUR NASTY ICKY CHILD SEX THOUGHTS THROUGH OUT THIS FORUM/WEBSITE. You're making me sick!"
Thank you.

"Dr M. (whispering ) pretty please dont say stuff about fingers and kids in the same sentance unless they are picking thier nose? Please?"
Thank you.

"I don't like censorship much either, but if pedophilia is so looked down upon by society, why would anyone want to write a piece of erotic fiction about it when there isn't a sympathetic audience to read it?"
Thank you.

"This is addressing the fantasy of minors having sex. Kids are not sexy. They are learning the boundaries of their sexuality. Why would anyone want to write a fantasy about kids and adults doing sexual acts with eachother?"
Thank you.


I have read most of the posts in this thread, over the past few days, and was tempted many times to jump in. But Ms.Read, you've already summed up how i feel, so i've quoted your most compelling statements above. (I do apologize that i didn't take the time to also quote the "source" posts which Ms.Read's comments refer to).

As heartily as i agree with Ms.Read, please know that i'm not discounting all the other views.

But i swear to God, i would give up all of my freedoms, all of my rights and liberties if this could ensure that NO-ONE EVER, EVER, EVER LAID A HAND ON MY SON OR DAUGHTER, or ever wrote about touching my son or daughter.

Actually, you've quoted her least compelling statements.

The first one says it's illegal, which is false. It further presumes to speak for the site owners, which is presumptuous and offensive. she goes on (dense little post, that one) to impute a reason for the Lit ban on under 18 which is not accurate. Just how the fuck is that a compelling post?

Number three says there isn't a sympathetic audience to read it, which is wildly inaccurate. Clearly the post has its head up its ass.

 

[gauchecritic]

So while i'm on that rant, i'll throw this little gem in: Is there nothing at least a little more lofty one might write about than child molestation? Regardless of whether there may be an audience for it? Is there absolutely nothing more constructive one could do at that or any moment in time?

The simple answer is yes. But the slightly more complex answer for MiAmico at least, at this time is actually the opposite.

Anyone can do something other than that which they are doing. But out of millions of people on the planet someone is going to be doing something that someone else doesn't want them to.

 

[3113]

This might imply that writers can't possibly write, say, the the point of view of the opposite gender, because they can't imagine themselves in that situation simply because they lack the experience?

Wow. Evidently my post was incredibly unclear if you got this implication from it. Though I am mystified as to why you'd think that I would ever imply anything like that given that I was the one who picked "Macbeth" in your chain story idea. Why in the world would you think I'd question a writer's ability to imagine...anything?

However, Dr. M very nicely clarified EXACTLY what I was getting at in this post:

What I mean about imagination and lying is this: Is it okay with you morally to write stories you know are lies? That Jews enjoyed marching to the gas chambers? That blacks enjoyed slavery? That women enjoy rape? That women are inferior to men?

Which was my point in that post, though evidently, I fucked up in getting it across. It's not about whether we can imagine anything or not. Tolkien said we can all imagine a green sun. But can we imagine life under a green sun? Imagine it well enough that people believe it's real and get emotionally invested in it? A story that is very clearly a fantasy (like most stroke stories) with no attempt to fool the reader into feeling that it's real is one thing. A story where the writer has really invested the characters and setting with realism, so much so that the reader feels the characters and setting are real (even if they objectively know they're not) is quite another.

How many people read Gone with the Wind and came away convinced that black folk were happier as slaves, that the South was noble, that the Civil War was a mistake and that the KKK was created only to protect it's women folk from evil black rapists and ought to be allowed to do whatever it thought necessary?

Now extend that into a story about a little girl enjoying her "painful but rewarding" initiation into sex thanks to a nocturnal visit by daddy. That is the point. Not that we can't imagine anything, but that we can, and we can do so well enough that readers will believe everything in the story is true, even if it's got a big red "FICTION!" label on it. We can make readers think it's real, and believe that what that little girl feels is what every little girl who has sex with her daddy feels. Just as so many readers believed that all plantations in the pre-civil-war South were just like those in Gone with the Wind with happy, singing Negroes and faithful Mammys.

My point is that we should never, ever take that incredible power that we have, the power to tell the most convincing lies, for granted.

 

[cantdog]

That's the kind of thing that makes me worry when someone argues against banning a book on the basis that it's only words.

Your posts always get me, thirty-one. I'm glad you're on the site. Wouldn't it be ducky if we could meet at some pub, take a booth, and just talk, say, I don't know, every Thursday at about 8:30?

You have a cool thoughtful, yet passionate head on you. Just sayin'.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

My point is that we should never, ever take that incredible power that we have, the power to tell the most convincing lies, for granted.

Nor should we censor it for the sake of any reader or outcome.

 

[amicus]

Actually, the thread has been somewhat mislead into child molestation, purposely I imagine, to divert from the conversation concerning underaged teen sex, that which is prohibited Publication on Literotica and frowned upon by the populace of this forum.

As I stated earlier, my interest was and is, to explore the nature and beginnings of human sexuality before that magic age of eighteen.

There is a great deal of repressed anger and perhaps shame expressed by many who are aghast at the idea of even discussing the origins of sexual desire and that simply should not be the case.

Thank you Selena, wonderful to know another comprehends the quest.

Amicus...

 

[Stella_Omega]

That's the kind of thing that makes me worry when someone argues against banning a book on the basis that it's only words.

That would be the very last reason I'd think of, when arguing against banning a book!

There is a great deal of repressed anger and perhaps shame expressed by many who are aghast at the idea of even discussing the origins of sexual desire and that simply should not be the case.

Ms read didn't seem very repressed at all, to me!

 

[ms.read]

Actually, you've quoted her least compelling statements.

The first one says it's illegal, which is false. It further presumes to speak for the site owners, which is presumptuous and offensive. she goes on (dense little post, that one) to impute a reason for the Lit ban on under 18 which is not accurate. Just how the fuck is that a compelling post? IF its legal, then why do they arrest and throw people in jail for for being a rapist and or pedophile, or a holder of child porn?WHY IS IT A CRIME? Secondly I would like to ask why would lit have a rule against explicit child sex if they wanted that kind of thing on their site? thirdly Number three says there isn't a sympathetic audience to read it, which is wildly inaccurate. Clearly the post has its head up its ass.

The following are various statements made by Ms.Read over the last couple days, within this post. (My sparkling comments in bold):

THIS POST IS A RANDOM RANT TO THE PEOPLE WHO WRITE CHILD SEX ON THE INTERNETS NOT A DIRECT POST TO PEOPLE DISCUSSING THE SUBJECT OF IT IN AN ABJECT WAY.{{"Let's get this straight, whether you (the thinker, writer, and /or reader of child porn) like to think, write, or read child porn meaning anything under the age of eighteen here, Laurel and Manu don't want themselves or thier website being associated with anything of that sort, because the people who tend to roam in those circles (such as yourselves) tend to get yourself into some illegal trouble. So, you are allowed to think about the sexual activities of people of a minor age, it is illegal to distribute and or hold any kind of matter pertaining to that subject. SO STOP SPEWING YOUR NASTY ICKY CHILD SEX THOUGHTS THROUGH OUT THIS FORUM/WEBSITE. You're making me sick!"}}Thank you.

"Dr M. (whispering ) pretty please dont say stuff about fingers and kids in the same sentance unless they are picking thier nose? Please?"
Thank you. -petty begging right there.

"I don't like censorship much either, but if pedophilia is so looked down upon by society, why would anyone want to write a piece of erotic fiction about it when there isn't a sympathetic audience to read it?"
Thank you.- meaning a general audience- example everybody wanted to see TITANIC, but nobody was in line to see From Justin to Kelly.

"This is addressing the fantasy of minors having sex. Kids are not sexy. They are learning the boundaries of their sexuality. Why would anyone want to write a fantasy about kids and adults doing sexual acts with eachother?"
I get that people think about this stuff... but its not my cup of tea.


I have read most of the posts in this thread, over the past few days, and was tempted many times to jump in. But Ms.Read, you've already summed up how i feel, so i've quoted your most compelling statements above. (I do apologize that i didn't take the time to also quote the "source" posts which Ms.Read's comments refer to).

As heartily as i agree with Ms.Read, please know that i'm not discounting all the other views.

But i swear to God, i would give up all of my freedoms, all of my rights and liberties if this could ensure that NO-ONE EVER, EVER, EVER LAID A HAND ON MY SON OR DAUGHTER, or ever wrote about touching my son or daughter.

umm, in the fantasy fiction thing. its always going to be someones son or daughter. and if they really want to do it, nobodies going to stop them.

Of course there are people who believe this! Ms.Read, for instance, has such difficulty with the concept that she can't conceive that her feelings are not universal. ABSOLUTELY RIGHT ^ - v


I won't celebrate these point of views, but I'll defend your right to show them.

 

[ms.read]

That would be the very last reason I'd think of, when arguing against banning a book!
Ms read didn't seem very repressed at all, to me!

oh im not angry. just disgusted. I would love to explore many facets of sexuality, just that (young) child/adult sex gives me the willies.

And for the record I would never ban child porn. I believe everyone has the right to view that stuff.

 

[Stella_Omega]

oh im not angry. just disgusted. I would love to explore many facets of sexuality, just that (young) child/adult sex gives me the willies.

And for the record I would never ban child porn. I believe everyone has the right to view that stuff.

It does get complicated, doesn't it?

 

[Selena_Kitt]

And for the record I would never ban child porn. I believe everyone has the right to view that stuff.

Are you kidding me?



Child porn is illegal because making it involves exploiting an ACTUAL child. Definitely someone's son or daughter, wouldn't you say?

But you wouldn't ban that??

Written FICTION with FICTIONAL adolescents... THAT you object to?

*scratching head*

 

[ms.read]

It does get complicated, doesn't it?

yep.

I wasn't arguing that we shouldn't have child porn. I was just trying to wrap my head around the idea of child porn and why people have fantasies about it. ( whether your the kid or the adult)