Western Civilization Depends On Men And Masculinity

[Rotadom]

Apparently that’s a demonstration of masculinity.

An Apry is a bird.
Does "His" mean that he's a bird who belongs to a Dom and is collared like a good little slut?

Maybe his kink is supporting other men's masculinity.

 

[LoneMilf]

Civilization depends on men who go do the things that people need done. Men who are physically strong enough to extract the raw materials that can be made into the things people need/use/want. Men who are courageous enough to step out into the wilderness and explore with an eye for developing new sources for the things people need/use/want and who can use the physical ability nature gave them and survive while they do it.

What century are you living in? When was the last time civilization depended on stepping into the wilderness and exploring?

Oh, and by the way, do you know what the most physically demanding job in the US is?
https://www.insuranceproviders.com/most-physically-demanding-jobs/

(hint: It's about 80% women and 20% men in that role..)

 

[Meekly_Anna]

In short: civilisation is the opposite of MAGA.

 

[DraggonStone]

What century are you living in? When was the last time civilization depended on stepping into the wilderness and exploring?

Oh, and by the way, do you know what the most physically demanding job in the US is?
https://www.insuranceproviders.com/most-physically-demanding-jobs/

(hint: It's about 80% women and 20% men in that role..)

They live in the time of the Old Testament

 

[HisArpy]

What century are you living in? When was the last time civilization depended on stepping into the wilderness and exploring?

Oh, and by the way, do you know what the most physically demanding job in the US is?
https://www.insuranceproviders.com/most-physically-demanding-jobs/

(hint: It's about 80% women and 20% men in that role..)

Great. So, when are you and your besties going to go get jobs on a drill rig in the Gulf of America? Or step up to drive one of the dumptrucks at a mine hauling rare earth elements in China or Ukraine (after the fighting stops)? Maybe you could work at a steel mill? Or dig coal in Virginia.

Those not your thing because you want to be skilled labor? OK, you can always get training for underwater welding and salvage. Or even change the lightbulb at the top of a radio tower; I hear it pays really well and it's easy work.

 

[AlexBailey]

Great. So, when are you and your besties going to go get jobs on a drill rig in the Gulf of America? Or step up to drive one of the dumptrucks at a mine hauling rare earth elements in China or Ukraine (after the fighting stops)? Maybe you could work at a steel mill? Or dig coal in Virginia.

Those not your thing because you want to be skilled labor? OK, you can always get training for underwater welding and salvage. Or even change the lightbulb at the top of a radio tower; I hear it pays really well and it's easy work.

There will be women who step up for those jobs, I know some women climbers and linemen. My foster daughter is an auto mechanic.

There are many men, such as yourself, who probably couldn’t climb twenty feet up a rope if their life depended on it. Ability to perform heavy work is not determined by chromosomes. Sure, women who work hard jobs are often outliers from the typical feminine form — that’s how human nature works.

For some reason you want to draw lines according to XX and XY rather than ability. How do you suggest civilization deal with outliers from gender norms?

 

[HisArpy]

There will be women who step up for those jobs, I know some women climbers and linemen. My foster daughter is an auto mechanic.

There are many men, such as yourself, who probably couldn’t climb twenty feet up a rope if their life depended on it. Ability to perform heavy work is not determined by chromosomes. Sure, women who work hard jobs are often outliers from the typical feminine form — that’s how human nature works.

For some reason you want to draw lines according to XX and XY rather than ability. How do you suggest civilization deal with outliers from gender norms?

THE POINT, numbnuts, is that women don't traditionally fill those roles. Not because they're not allowed but because they're GENERALLY not equipped for them physically. Yet civilization depends on those jobs and the people who do them.

And for some reason you keep thinking the exception is the rule. Which is why you keep bringing up imperial evidence as if it's the measurement to be used. Take for example your belief that a guy with a truck is as successful as those who lead the world merely because he owns a house in California. You know, like 15 million other people do.

 

[LoneMilf]

THE POINT, numbnuts, is that women don't traditionally fill those roles. Not because they're not allowed but because they're GENERALLY not equipped for them physically. Yet civilization depends on those jobs and the people who do them.

And for some reason you keep thinking the exception is the rule. Which is why you keep bringing up imperial evidence as if it's the measurement to be used. Take for example your belief that a guy with a truck is as successful as those who lead the world merely because he owns a house in California. You know, like 15 million other people do.

So we can at least agree that both men and women are generally capable of fulfilling the same roles - great

However, your arguments in this thread seem to be based on the idea that there is some kind of very special list of jobs that are the only ones important for western civilization. I don't know how you decided on that particular list of jobs. You probably see it as self-evident - but it isn't. I, for one, don't see why such a list would be focused mostly on manual labour and completely ignore critical roles like doctors, nurses and teachers.

If you actually want to try to sway some opinions, you'll probably need to explain your rationale for that list better.

 

[AlexBailey]

THE POINT, numbnuts, is that women don't traditionally fill those roles. Not because they're not allowed but because they're GENERALLY not equipped for them physically. Yet civilization depends on those jobs and the people who do them.

And for some reason you keep thinking the exception is the rule. Which is why you keep bringing up imperial evidence as if it's the measurement to be used. Take for example your belief that a guy with a truck is as successful as those who lead the world merely because he owns a house in California. You know, like 15 million other people do.

So you don’t believe hard working blue collar people who own their own homes and raise healthy children can be as successful as you are, then you say I’m claiming to be superior?


You’re here supporting a claim that the future depends on men to do all of these hard jobs while avoiding the issue of how technology, economics, and market forces are making ‘masculine men’ obsolete for many said jobs.


Are you now acknowledging that gender roles are based on generalizations, not chromosomes?

 

[Meekly_Anna]

Can someone please summarise what that nutcase has been spouting now? I stopped reading after ‘Gulf of America’ because I wanted to know where this ominous body of water is supposed to be. It doesn't seem to be marked on any nautical chart.
Oh well. Probably a goldfish pond in Florida.
Was what the Defender of The Y Chromosome said important, or can it be ignored?

 

[AlexBailey]

Can someone please summarise what that nutcase has been spouting now? I stopped reading after ‘Gulf of America’ because I wanted to know where this ominous body of water is supposed to be. It doesn't seem to be marked on any nautical chart.
Oh well. Probably a goldfish pond in Florida.
Was what the Defender of The Y Chromosome said important, or can it be ignored?

@HisArpy is just another one of those toxic males who desperately try to convince people there is no such thing as toxic masculinity while displaying toxic masculinity.

 

[MythicMind]

well I step in:

a) fight in close combat which is essential for battle victory.

(1) Women are capable of close combat (don't believe me? Google "women in the Ukrainian army"), (2) the majority of warfare is now done through tech and subterfuge, which women are equally capable of doing, (3) no one is attempting to repress the ability of men to be soldiers. So, this does not qualify in any way, but I appreciate you trying at least.

b) maintaining it instead giving it away to the DEI crowd

This is incoherent. How does supporting diversity in our institutions threaten the foundations of Western civilization, i.e. the rule of law, individual rights, secular education and public policy, independent courts, or the accountability of elected officials to the voters?

c) manliness is now called misogyny

Only if you define "manliness" as treating women as second class citizens or mere sex dolls. If you don't, then you don't have any argument with what I've been saying.

 

[Meekly_Anna]

(1) Women are capable of close combat (don't believe me? Google "women in the Ukrainian army"), (2) the majority of warfare is now done through tech and subterfuge, which women are equally capable of doing, (3) no one is attempting to repress the ability of men to be soldiers. So, this does not qualify in any way, but I appreciate you trying at least.



This is incoherent.



Only if you define "manliness" as treating women as second class citizens or mere sex dolls. If you don't, then you don't have any argument with what I've been saying.

Manliness was called "oh no, another unwashed idiot in desperate need for a shave and toothpaste".
Kidding.
Of course.
A real man is a mensch.
He doesn't argue how manly he is. He is.
He's polite and gentle.
He helps those needing help without asking for or demanding gratitude. He provides help to everyone.
It doesn't matter to him what he's good with. Be it repairs, literature, interior design or just being there when needed.
A real man wears his dignity.
A real man doesn't judge people by their chromosomes.
A real man accepts people as they are.

There are not many men in this discussion.

 

[DeluxAuto]

Great. So, when are you and your besties going to go get jobs on a drill rig in the Gulf of America? Or step up to drive one of the dumptrucks at a mine hauling rare earth elements in China or Ukraine (after the fighting stops)? Maybe you could work at a steel mill? Or dig coal in Virginia.

Those not your thing because you want to be skilled labor? OK, you can always get training for underwater welding and salvage. Or even change the lightbulb at the top of a radio tower; I hear it pays really well and it's easy work.

Women would have probably figured out clean energy decades ago if it weren't for billionaires and our obsession with oil.

 

[Meekly_Anna]

Women would have probably figured out clean energy decades ago if it weren't for billionaires and our obsession with oil.

Oil and gas are dead.
Not everyone knows yet

 

[DeluxAuto]

Oil and gas are dead.
Not everyone knows yet

There are idiots in Wat's thread who once claimed oil was a renewable source. How do you have rational discussions with these twits?

 

[Meekly_Anna]

There are idiots in Wat's thread who once claimed oil was a renewable source. How do you have rational discussions with these twits?

People not understanding science are normally people you can't have a discussion with.

 

[HorryD]

I'm not an expert on American politics.. It worries me how polarised it is and how its dragging other democracies into similarly polarised debates..

But for my sins (and because of how I make a living) I do know a fair bit about Machine Learning and LLM's.. And I guarantee, if you peeps go and have a closer look at many of the ranting posts in this thread they will find the digital fingerprints of LLM's all other them.

Now is that OK to you?.. Not for me to say... but I would always be a least be a little cautious of anyone trying to convince an audience of their intellectual prowess by making appeals to collective "stolen" wisdom. I think there is a name for people who do that...

 

[MythicMind]

THE POINT, numbnuts, is that women don't traditionally fill those roles.

You are conflating cultural norms with intrinsic ability. The premise of the post is that men are *uniquely necessary* for the survival of Western civilization. This argument requires men having specific skills or traits that women do not have, such that if we do not allow men to express those skills or traits, that Western civilization will collapse. But you are here admitting that women *could* do these jobs if Western civilization required them to. Making the original argument obsolete.

Not because they're not allowed but because they're GENERALLY not equipped for them physically. Yet civilization depends on those jobs and the people who do them.

Sure, I'll stipulate this. But no one is trying to stop men from doing those jobs, nor is anyone complaining that men do them. Can you find any significant effort to stop men from, say, becoming steelworkers or roofers? I'm certainly not aware of any. Moreover, there are countless *other* jobs that are equally as critical to Western Civilization that *women* tend to occupy, e.g. nurses, teachers, doctors. So it turns out that civilization is a team effort, and that men aren't somehow being forced to stop doing important physical labor. So what exactly is your complaint?

 

[Rightguide]

And now robots and AI are being produced that can replace humans for nearly all of those ‘male roles’ you just described.

Just how many men will women need in the technological future?

Who do you think builds, maintains, and powers the AI? Spoiler alert: it’s not the Gender Studies department. Robots don’t emerge from feminist poetry circles; they come from the minds and hands of the same men you’re fantasizing about deleting.

 

[AlexBailey]

Who do you think builds, maintains, and powers the AI? Spoiler alert: it’s not the Gender Studies department. Robots don’t emerge from feminist poetry circles; they come from the minds and hands of the same men you’re fantasizing about deleting.

Okay, ready for the next shoe?

Robots are being built to build robots and robots will be replacing work that up until now has been performed by “masculine men”.

The implementation of new technology has always been framed by business as increasing productivity of the workforce. It’s true.

Now we have robots who are able to be stand-ins and full replacement of human workers. With Musk saying an Optimus robot could cost less than $20,000, how much could an employer save by buying a robot vs paying an employee. A robot can work many more hours a day than a person. Full power operating costs are less than $10 of electricity per day…

Why would a business not replace workers? A corporation would have a responsibility to their shareholders to save money.

Soldiers? We’re going to need the best geeks.

What are your thoughts about all those up and coming displaced masculine men? How do they fit in your version of civilization?

 

[Rightguide]

Okay, ready for the next shoe?

Robots are being built to build robots and robots will be replacing work that up until now has been performed by “masculine men”.

The implementation of new technology has always been framed by business as increasing productivity of the workforce. It’s true.

Now we have robots who are able to be stand-ins and full replacement of human workers. With Musk saying an Optimus robot could cost less than $20,000, how much could an employer save by buying a robot vs paying an employee. A robot can work many more hours a day than a person. Full power operating costs are less than $10 of electricity per day…

Why would a business not replace workers? A corporation would have a responsibility to their shareholders to save money.

Soldiers? We’re going to need the best geeks.

What are your thoughts about all those up and coming displaced masculine men? How do they fit in your version of civilization?

More fantasy about “displaced masculine men”? They’ll be the ones building, programming, maintaining, and defending the very robots you’re so excited to worship. Civilization isn’t about replacing men with machines; it’s about men mastering machines. So if you want to talk about progress, start by admitting the indispensable role masculine men play, not just in your fever dreams but in reality.

 

[AlexBailey]

More fantasy about “displaced masculine men”? They’ll be the ones building, programming, maintaining, and defending the very robots you’re so excited to worship. Civilization isn’t about replacing men with machines; it’s about men mastering machines. So if you want to talk about progress, start by admitting the indispensable role masculine men play, not just in your fever dreams but in reality.

Why are you saying I worship robots? Deflection? Spin? Don’t be so weak.

Business worships profit. Do you disagree?

The economic advantage of robots is to decrease the cost for human labor and to increase productivity. The size and strength of the humans involved is becoming less important all the time.


Do claim that chromosomes XX or XY determine a person’s ability? Are you honest enough to acknowledge there are outliers of either gender?

I get it. You don’t want to think about how unimportant masculinity really is in a modern world.

Technology is our future and “masculine men” aren’t exclusively the best operators of technology.

 

[Rightguide]

Why are you saying I worship robots? Deflection? Spin? Don’t be so weak.

Business worships profit. Do you disagree?

The economic advantage of robots is to decrease the cost for human labor and to increase productivity. The size and strength of the humans involved is becoming less important all the time.


Do claim that chromosomes XX or XY determine a person’s ability? Are you honest enough to acknowledge there are outliers of either gender?

I get it. You don’t want to think about how unimportant masculinity really is in a modern world.

Technology is our future and “masculine men” aren’t exclusively the best operators of technology.

Newsflash: masculinity isn’t a relic; it’s the backbone behind every breakthrough, every code compiled, every machine powered up.

And sure, not only masculine men operate technology, but don’t pretend the men who built the technology and keep it running are suddenly irrelevant because you woke up from your ideology nap. Masculinity isn’t about exclusion; it’s about strength, resilience, and innovation, all qualities that built the modern world you love to claim as your own.

 

[Rightguide]

Manliness was called "oh no, another unwashed idiot in desperate need for a shave and toothpaste".
Kidding.
Of course.
A real man is a mensch.
He doesn't argue how manly he is. He is.
He's polite and gentle.
He helps those needing help without asking for or demanding gratitude. He provides help to everyone.
It doesn't matter to him what he's good with. Be it repairs, literature, interior design or just being there when needed.
A real man wears his dignity.
A real man doesn't judge people by their chromosomes.
A real man accepts people as they are.

There are not many men in this discussion.

Your “real man is a mensch” sermon, is so pure, so woke, so perfectly designed to guilt-trip every guy who still thinks masculinity means more than handing out hugs and affirmations. Sure, a real man can be polite and gentle, but surprise: real men also have opinions, boundaries, and a backbone, not just a subscription to Anna's Handbook On Feelings. It’s cute you say “he doesn’t argue how manly he is,” because what you really mean is, “Please don’t remind me masculinity exists outside my safe little bubble.” Real men aren’t afraid of their own nature, nor do they apologize for it. So while you’re waiting for your mythical legion of "mensch men," maybe check if they’re off building the world you love complaining about instead of writing feel-good manifestos.