Porn and Social Demise

[madelinemasoch]

Perhaps these ideas would serve better in an essay format, but I feel compelled to share them here.

A lot of the porn I’ve consumed is BNWO themed—“Black New World Order” for the uninitiated—and some of it is actually rather dark. I can’t help but notice it as a reflection of social ills. There’s been a lot of hay made about “male loneliness epidemic” and there are facts to back it up. Male suicide rates and drug overdose rates are higher than they were 20 years ago. A google search will tell you that much. These are often called “deaths of despair” in social sciences.

The BNWO porn can often veer into the territory of sexualized defeat and degeneration. To be more precise, people are getting off on the idea of being replaced, left behind, and unwanted by society as a whole, not just being unwanted by women. It’s like if you twist the ‘incel’ crowd’s feelings of abandonment or the white nationalist crowd’s neurosis about ‘replacement’ into a “fetish.” A lot of it openly praises things that the far-right fears, like feminism and anti-racist politics, for leading to the proliferation of black male-white female interracial relationships leading to the projected extinction of the white race.

I think this kind of extreme pornography only arises out of a society that is generally in decay, not to say the porn itself is a social ill, rather that it only makes sense and has sway in the context of a society that is riddled with social ills which may appear unrelated at first glance. Also, it seems the “western male archetype” in particular is essentially dead in the water. I’m open to anyone else’s thoughts and observation on the matter, but I’m not here for a political debate.

Also, these are waters I’m happy to swim in when it comes to my own writing, because (1) it’s timely, (2) it’s theoretically interesting to me, and (3) there’s an aesthetic appeal. So, please don’t twist what I’m saying into an anti-pornography argument. I happily produce what may be considered “pornography” that is generally akin to what I’m referring to.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

The challenge with things like that is the difficulty in measuring it. While there is plenty of research backing up some of the current problems such as the male loneliness epidemic, I'd wonder how common the porn you are referring to really is.
I don't consume much porn, but I've never even seen the type you are referring to. The closest is probably the BBC stuff, and some BBC cuckold stuff. (Not my thing but to each their own) I think that derives more from turning the "shame" aspect up to 11 for some people.



I'm sure someone will be along to claim that yes, all these pathetic incels are jerking off to this because (insert reasons)... with the "reasons" being because it meets that person's dehumanizing stereotype of the people they don't even try to understand.

 

[ElectricBlue]

The problem with using a porn niche as your baseline for the health of a society is that, by definition a niche is a niche, it's not representative. I'm not at all convinced you can extrapolate from the narrow to the broad the way you're suggesting here.

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

The 'Net and Social Demise​

That's your title.

Adult entertainment and society thrived together in the 70s and 80s, even into the heyday of it in the early 90s. It was big business and seeped into everyday life and TV in various forms. Hugh Hefner, Bob Guccione and Larry Flynt among others were top names. Even mainstream movies and TV featured adult performers like Shannon Tweed and Annette Haven (who appeared in '10' and was said to be one of the top choices for Body Double and went on to coach Melanie Griffith in the role).

'Married With Children' on Fox TV of all places openly featured adult entertainers like Devin Devasqeuz and and Brandi Brandt among many others. One of the running gags was which centerfold would guest next week.

Then the 'Net took over and everybody's brain died.

 

[SimonDoom]

There are so many different types of porn that I'm not sure one can draw any predictions from one type. I think we are experiencing social change rather than social demise, and the explosion and variety of online erotica over the last generation reflects that, inevitably.

There's always been a current in American culture, since the beginning of the "Jeremiad," the lament that we've fallen from a state of grace. The Puritans worried about it in the late 17th century. For a long time, near-future dystopianism has been a very popular theme in sci fi. BNWO stories may represent a new form of this longstanding trend.

 

[Robin_Starveling]

but I’m not here for a political debate.

The hell you aren’t. This post is dripping with wokeness, though I bet political correctness will stop anyone from saying what they actually think.

 

[lovecraft68]

Porn is the least of the reasons for our social demise. Put on what passes for news and you see what really is.

I don't agree with the OP's point about a certain kind of porn reflecting the disgusting society we live in. That type of porn isn't all that new but like anything else it has ebbs and flows of popularity.

Porn in general is under attack again, I see all these ads about breaking away from the 'P-word'

The angle is always its the woman's fault, its porn's fault and acting like men are innocent victims who are living their virtuous lives and are yanked kicking and screaming into this awful adult world.

Never, never, and I say again never, is their any accountability laid at the feet of the men who watch it. Never their fault, never the simple fact that if it weren't for men porn wouldn't exist because they're the ones that consume most of it, nope, there is not an ounce of blame on their part. Men are who goes into strip clubs, men pay for only fans, men pay for sex, but somehow all those things are blamed on women and the man is patted on the head "Oh, there there, boo boo bear, what are those evil women doing to you?

Maybe part of societal decay is when many men decided the new "manhood' was to wallow in victimhood and blame women and everything else for their problems and never themselves. Men cry that women are bad and awful and they don't want us and demonize feminism, when fact is, what woman in their right mind would want a damn simp in their life? Those are the men consuming porn at a higher level BTW so these ads are really targeting themselves and they're too dumb to know that.

But actual men can watch it and enjoy it and that upsets the moralists, the same kind of creep that wriggles their slimy way through LW and comment sections here.

Anything can be an addiction and just about anything is fine in moderation.

Remember the expression live and let live?

Get back to that and we wouldn't be where we are.

 

[TheWritingGroup]

The hell you aren’t. This post is dripping with wokeness, though I bet political correctness will stop anyone from saying what they actually think.

Poe's Law, anyone?

--Annie

 

[Robin_Starveling]

Poe's Law, anyone?

--Annie

Maybe I have reading comprehension problems, but what I read between the lines was that the colonialist white man is to blame for all the world’s ills, and the noble black man is supposed to save us from him.

LC above basically said the same thing, just without mentioning the word “white.”

 

[TheWritingGroup]

Maybe I have reading comprehension problems, but what I read between the lines was that the colonialist white man is to blame for all the world’s ills, and the noble black man is supposed to save us from him.

LC above basically said the same thing, just without mentioning the word “white.”

OK, this has to be a Poe. Nobody could read that badly.

 

[Robin_Starveling]

OK, this has to be a Poe. Nobody could read that badly.

Coming from a six-headed hydra singing in unison, I’ll take that as a compliment.

 

[APilgrimSquare]

I think this kind of extreme pornography only arises out of a society that is generally in decay

I mean, it only arises when there's an audience whose anxieties and erotic fantasies are intertwined. Doesn't require a "society in decay," just people fixated on the ostensible sexual prowess of black men (which certain white westerners have thought about for well over a century).

No shame in having your kinks, but it has more to do with you and your brain than the actual world around you.

 

[GuiltyCowboy]

Different places produce and consume different types of porn. That’s always fascinating.

I remember reading once that bondage and interracial porn were especially popular in the American South.

It’s probably also worth pointing out that peddlers in misogyny like Andrew Tate make their living not from building up men but by making them feel so useless that they’ll be willing to pay the $8k to take their course on how to be a real man.

Any supremacist ideology is fundamentally one of insecurity.

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

Did somebody really use the W word?

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Did somebody really use the W word?

And no one has started screaming about shiboleths yet.

 

[crookedletter]

The porn angle is interesting insofar as it takes a particularly deeply-ingrained issue to filter all the way into porn. Social currents infuse everything, to a point, but generally you can watch porn through the ages and not much changes beyond the superficial.

Maybe it's the overall glut of porn in the world. The more there is -- and, thanks to the internet, there's a lot of it -- the more societal issues have room to seep into it.

Or maybe it's just that the issues run that deep. Humans have always been fearful. We get scared of the next Big Bad -- whatever that is to you individually -- and we act a little nuts. And right now it does seem like that current of fear is so deep, so intense, so all pervasive at every point in the political spectrum, that people can barely look each other in the eye. It would not surprise me to learn that that fear is even taking over porn.

 

[GuiltyCowboy]

Did somebody really use the W word?

The more I understand structural racism and poverty, the more horny I get!

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Porn is the least of the reasons for our social demise. Put on what passes for news and you see what really is.

I don't agree with the OP's point about a certain kind of porn reflecting the disgusting society we live in. That type of porn isn't all that new but like anything else it has ebbs and flows of popularity.

Porn in general is under attack again, I see all these ads about breaking away from the 'P-word'

The angle is always its the woman's fault, its porn's fault and acting like men are innocent victims who are living their virtuous lives and are yanked kicking and screaming into this awful adult world.

Never, never, and I say again never, is their any accountability laid at the feet of the men who watch it. Never their fault, never the simple fact that if it weren't for men porn wouldn't exist because they're the ones that consume most of it, nope, there is not an ounce of blame on their part. Men are who goes into strip clubs, men pay for only fans, men pay for sex, but somehow all those things are blamed on women and the man is patted on the head "Oh, there there, boo boo bear, what are those evil women doing to you?

Maybe part of societal decay is when many men decided the new "manhood' was to wallow in victimhood and blame women and everything else for their problems and never themselves. Men cry that women are bad and awful and they don't want us and demonize feminism, when fact is, what woman in their right mind would want a damn simp in their life? Those are the men consuming porn at a higher level BTW so these ads are really targeting themselves and they're too dumb to know that.

But actual men can watch it and enjoy it and that upsets the moralists, the same kind of creep that wriggles their slimy way through LW and comment sections here.

Anything can be an addiction and just about anything is fine in moderation.

Remember the expression live and let live?

Get back to that and we wouldn't be where we are.

The concept of "the woman's fault" may be a generational difference, because I don't see that.
It's rather common to see men criticize and deride other men for being "simps" for spending money on OnlyFans, going to strip clubs or talking a lot about porn. The general theme being that he should go out and talk to girls instead of pretending the stripper really likes him.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

I think that the idea that pornography reflects our society has merit.

It would've been great if we had a way to compare it to pornographic desires of past times, but widely available porn is only a thing of the past couple of decades. There's nothing to compare to.

Still, your personal BNWO kink is likely the wrong thing to be analyzed in that sense. It IS niche, although maybe not as niche as some people here think. It plays right into the cuckold fantasies, and those aren't that niche.

But let's take a look at the most popular porn themes. Does the popularity of mom/son, or father/daughter themes mean that both men and women of modern society feel less of an adult? Are they more insecure and are thus attracted to the idea of being with their moms and dads? Perhaps.

It could also be that the saturation with "ordinary" porn made people reach out for something more exotic, more taboo. Maybe incest is for today's society what "ordinary" porn was in the seventies and eighties.

It's hard to say, but I do think that the structure and relationships in modern society play a role in shaping our kinks.

When it comes to porn in general, I'm pro-freedom and thus pro-porn. I hate the moralizing BS of conservative organizations, especially since it's all hypocritical most of the time. Those who pretend to be saints in public are often huge perverts in private.

Also, since a few people here touched on those subjects, I believe that the responsibility is always on the consumer, assuming appropriate age. Booze, cigars, porn, doesn't matter what. People need to be educated about all those things, not protected from them. Use your brain and make an informed choice. Everything else is BS.

 

[Comshaw]

Perhaps these ideas would serve better in an essay format, but I feel compelled to share them here.

A lot of the porn I’ve consumed is BNWO themed—“Black New World Order” for the uninitiated—and some of it is actually rather dark. I can’t help but notice it as a reflection of social ills. There’s been a lot of hay made about “male loneliness epidemic” and there are facts to back it up. Male suicide rates and drug overdose rates are higher than they were 20 years ago. A google search will tell you that much. These are often called “deaths of despair” in social sciences.

The BNWO porn can often veer into the territory of sexualized defeat and degeneration. To be more precise, people are getting off on the idea of being replaced, left behind, and unwanted by society as a whole, not just being unwanted by women. It’s like if you twist the ‘incel’ crowd’s feelings of abandonment or the white nationalist crowd’s neurosis about ‘replacement’ into a “fetish.” A lot of it openly praises things that the far-right fears, like feminism and anti-racist politics, for leading to the proliferation of black male-white female interracial relationships leading to the projected extinction of the white race.

I think this kind of extreme pornography only arises out of a society that is generally in decay, not to say the porn itself is a social ill, rather that it only makes sense and has sway in the context of a society that is riddled with social ills which may appear unrelated at first glance. Also, it seems the “western male archetype” in particular is essentially dead in the water. I’m open to anyone else’s thoughts and observation on the matter, but I’m not here for a political debate.

Also, these are waters I’m happy to swim in when it comes to my own writing, because (1) it’s timely, (2) it’s theoretically interesting to me, and (3) there’s an aesthetic appeal. So, please don’t twist what I’m saying into an anti-pornography argument. I happily produce what may be considered “pornography” that is generally akin to what I’m referring to.

First, let me see if I can put into words what I see you trying to say. If I'm wrong, correct me. The gist of your post is that this Black New World Order porn is an indicator of the decay of society. You are using a fetish that is microscopic in comparison to the field and saying it represents a mine canary for society as a whole.

I'm afraid I can't agree. Yes, we have things developing, or are just now being recognized, in our society that appear to be downward trends in the social order. The rise (or recognition of) and growth in incels, this BNWO and white nationalist/supremacists are only a few. And if you look at only those, we are decaying as a society. The problem with your idea is that it's akin to the three blind men and the elephant crossed with confirmation bias. You're using a tiny, insignificant ( in the context of society as a whole) set of beliefs to extrapolate the health of the rest of the human social order. I don't see where that is the case.

While those things mentioned above are happening, we have also addressed many flaws in our society. 100 years ago it was acceptable to beat your wife. She had no rights. My wife couldn't even get a credit card in her name when we got married in the 70s. Raping your daughter was swept under the rug. Rape in general was ignored. Gay people were killed and the killers were allowed to walk free. No matter how one feels about homosexuality, sanctioned murder should never be an answer. Back then this BNWO you write would be seen as a threat and treated as such. You would probably have been jailed or killed. Now? You're talking about it openly here. That should tell you something. Society isn't one smooth upwards curve toward enlightenment. It's a struggle. It's a fight. Two steps forward, one step back. Sometimes a dozen steps back and start the climb again.

The suicide rate among men has risen. My own opinion about it (and I have no facts to back it, just my opinion) is that I believe that most of those suicides are by men from comfortable middle-class and up families who have been raised in a setting of peace and plenty. They never had to struggle for anything. Humans aren't geared to live that way, as cattle gently grazing their way through life. From the time Lucy walked the African plains, we have had to fight and struggle to survive. Now, these men drift through a life without that, devoid of challenges and any kind of real struggle.

And I am not talking about just a physical fights. In the early part of the last century and the last part of the one before, we were fighting to expand the nation and settle new land. In the 1920s and 30s the Union movement was taking off. Men were fighting for a bigger piece of the economic pie.

WWI and WWII were actual fights. But the males of our society walked into it. And the ones that came home wanted peace, so we got the peaceful expansion of the 50s. The 60s came and the Vietnam War consumed us. Some were given rifles and had to do the fighting, while at home the college kids fought to put a stop to it because they believed it was wrong. When the dust settled, we got the 70s and a generation chasing fun.

We aren't geared to peacefully meander through life. Human animals have struggled for our entire existence. It's part of our being, part of our makeup, part of who we are. Without it we are lost, adrift, aimless. Many can find or manufacture something to struggle against. But there always are and will be those who can't. And those are the ones who get lost and left behind.


Damn, I think I've pontificated enough. NEXT!


Comshaw

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

First, let me see if I can put into words what I see you trying to say. If I'm wrong, correct me. The gist of your post is that this Black New World Order porn is an indicator of the decay of society. You are using a fetish that is microscopic in comparison to the field and saying it represents a mine canary for society as a whole.

Not my kink either, but why would it be seen as a sign of decay? Is that saying what it seems to be? That one race or gender is lesser than another and a switch to that one being more prevalent or dominant is a sign of decay? Perhaps, if it is happening, it may be inevitable evolution?

If so, would/should/could this be a thread better served in the sewer?

Now, if it's just a variation on the BBC kink, white women being featured at parties attended only by black men, then maybe it's OK here.

 

[DEFCOM5]

This is a minefield so I will try not to get blown up.

I do not really know about the BNWO as Black Male / White Female (why isn't it the opposite?????) is not something that turn me so I do not watch at all.

What I notice as higher ed instructors is that over the last 10 years and especially since the pandemic, young male (18-22) treat women like shit and as a result have a trouble getting laid and of course blame the women.
I would like to ask them "How is it working for you being an asshole?" but they will get back to me saying I am a beta and they want to be alpha.

How about you treat other with respect and dignity?

Click ...... Fuck .... BOOM!

 

[TheLobster]

since the pandemic,

This is the key phrase. Three years of lockdowns have retarded everyone's social skills, but young people's in particular as they didn't have them properly developed yet. It afflicts men and women alike.

 

[DEFCOM5]

This is the key phrase. Three years of lockdowns have retarded everyone's social skills, but young people's in particular as they didn't them properly developed yet. It applies to men and women alike.

What I noticed about the female students is that they either are in the "We don't need men" camp or "let's play dumb not to be alone" camp.

Neither are great developments.

 

[Bazzle]

Perhaps these ideas would serve better in an essay format, but I feel compelled to share them here.

A lot of the porn I’ve consumed is BNWO themed—“Black New World Order” for the uninitiated—and some of it is actually rather dark. I can’t help but notice it as a reflection of social ills. There’s been a lot of hay made about “male loneliness epidemic” and there are facts to back it up. Male suicide rates and drug overdose rates are higher than they were 20 years ago. A google search will tell you that much. These are often called “deaths of despair” in social sciences.

The BNWO porn can often veer into the territory of sexualized defeat and degeneration. To be more precise, people are getting off on the idea of being replaced, left behind, and unwanted by society as a whole, not just being unwanted by women. It’s like if you twist the ‘incel’ crowd’s feelings of abandonment or the white nationalist crowd’s neurosis about ‘replacement’ into a “fetish.” A lot of it openly praises things that the far-right fears, like feminism and anti-racist politics, for leading to the proliferation of black male-white female interracial relationships leading to the projected extinction of the white race.

I think this kind of extreme pornography only arises out of a society that is generally in decay, not to say the porn itself is a social ill, rather that it only makes sense and has sway in the context of a society that is riddled with social ills which may appear unrelated at first glance. Also, it seems the “western male archetype” in particular is essentially dead in the water. I’m open to anyone else’s thoughts and observation on the matter, but I’m not here for a political debate.

Also, these are waters I’m happy to swim in when it comes to my own writing, because (1) it’s timely, (2) it’s theoretically interesting to me, and (3) there’s an aesthetic appeal. So, please don’t twist what I’m saying into an anti-pornography argument. I happily produce what may be considered “pornography” that is generally akin to what I’m referring to.

It has been promised to cause demise ever since the "conservative" Victorian era.

Have a quick Google for Victorian porn...it was produced as soon as cameras were used.

Conservatives are scared of sex.

But I bet they are the biggest consumers!