Where are the happy, chill lesbians?

[lovecraft68]

Only... he didn't do that. He didn't "diss" anyone.
He made observations based on his reading of the stories that they tended to feature certain patterns.
No one here has claimed that the patterns he noted aren't accurate.
So, it's okay for these patterns to exist, but to notice them is "dissing" people?
That's absurd.

I don't want to jump into the middle of this thing, a few posts in and my head already hurts. I do want to say I agree with you and support your argument.

Some people here are hyper defensive and like to play perpetual victim.

I notice trends in many categories, there's nothing wrong with that and like anything else, it's never all and its never none, but sometimes when you see enough of something it does tend to validate it in a statistical way.

This thread is not insulting and shouldn't be that big of a deal

But of course, it has become one.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Cheat code may be overstating the case.

As the one who introduced the term "cheat code", I should say that it was an obvious joke at the expense of how easier it is to get empathy when a character suffers loss or tragedy. The character and the story still need to be written competently, of course, but it IS easier. And that's all I meant to say.

We've had lengthy discussions about popular tropes and stories in IT many times. We basically roasted the backseat mom trope. We had discussions about other categories too, so I don't understand some of the overreactions here. These should always be legit topics for discussion.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

If you want to know the problem.
Look in a mirror.

Cagivagurl

That's a lot of mental and emotional attention to try and prove how much you don't care

 

[AwkwardlySet]

I don't want to jump into the middle of this thing, a few posts in and my head already hurts. I do want to say I agree with you and support your argument.

Some people here are hyper defensive and like to play perpetual victim.

I notice trends in many categories, there's nothing wrong with that and like anything else, it's never all and its never none, but sometimes when you see enough of something it does tend to validate it in a statistical way.

This thread is not insulting and shouldn't be that big of a deal

But of course, it has become one.

I'd say he was somewhat crude about the way he talked, not about the authors, but about that particular type of story. I understand that it drew some ire. But it wasn't a big deal, and I believe it was unintentional, and I believe this is a legit topic.
Surely, it would be interesting to discuss what's popular in every category on Lit. As you said, there's no need for defensiveness when it comes to discussing these things. That's the purpose of this bleeding forum, for Christ's sake.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Sadly, it will never be as valid as it should be.

Unfortunately you are right.
I'd never really looked into it until The Lobster brought it up, but according to both the DOJ and CDC here in the US women in same sex relationships suffer domestic violence at significantly higher rates than women in hetero relationships.
The experts also think that there is an even bigger problem with under reporting in the same-sex community for a variety of reasons.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

As the one who introduced the term "cheat code", I should say that it was an obvious joke at the expense of how easier it is to get empathy when a character suffers loss or tragedy. The character and the story still need to be written competently, of course, but it IS easier. And that's all I meant to say.

We've had lengthy discussions about popular tropes and stories in IT many times. We basically roasted the backseat mom trope. We had discussions about other categories too, so I don't understand some of the overreactions here. These should always be legit topics for discussion.

I took it as short hand as you described, but I can understand some people not liking the word "cheat" in this context.
Not something worth getting your knickers in a twist of course.

 

[lovecraft68]

I'd say he was somewhat crude about the way he talked, not about the authors, but about that particular type of story. I understand that it drew some ire. But it wasn't a big deal, and I believe it was unintentional, and I believe this is a legit topic.
Surely, it would be interesting to discuss what's popular in every category on Lit. As you said, there's no need for defensiveness when it comes to discussing these things. That's the purpose of this bleeding forum, for Christ's sake.

It's an opinion. People come here all the time with them. All manner of threads along the lines of "I hate this type of story" and the infamous "What are your pet peeves or what trope makes you stop reading." The majority of the time people don't see that as an attack and will join on it.

But let's be real there are people here who like to play 'the card' and any opinion about certain topics that disagree with theirs leads to the "you don't have the right" and we know how this goes and its tiring.

Everything should be up for discussion as long as it can be reasonable and not get personal. But some make it personal, go on the attack, then pull the "No one is allowed to have a say except them because no one understands." Passive aggressive at its finest.

This reminds me of one of your favorite terms.

 

[SmilingLez]

Unfortunately you are right.
I'd never really looked into it until The Lobster brought it up, but according to both the DOJ and CDC here in the US women in same sex relationships suffer domestic violence at significantly higher rates than women in hetero relationships.
The experts also think that there is an even bigger problem with under reporting in the same-sex community for a variety of reasons.

interesting stats

https://www.breakthecycle.org/blog/...elationships-and-dating-abuse-lgbtq-community

 

[Kelliezgirl]

interesting stats

https://www.breakthecycle.org/blog/...elationships-and-dating-abuse-lgbtq-community

Tragic stats, and it doesn't help that so many people are in denial about it. As we've seen in this thread.

 

[Cagivagurl]

That's a lot of mental and emotional attention to try and prove how much you don't care

Never said I didn't care....
Perhaps you should learn to read?????

Cagivagurl

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Never said I didn't care....
Perhaps you should learn to read?????

Cagivagurl

My, we're getting snippy now, aren't we.

 

[Cagivagurl]

My, we're getting snippy now, aren't we.

Nah, not me....
LOL... Remember the mirror....

Cagivagurl

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Nah, not me....
LOL... Remember the mirror....

Cagivagurl

Yes, you should definitely remember the mirror.

 

[Statius]

interesting stats

https://www.breakthecycle.org/blog/...elationships-and-dating-abuse-lgbtq-community

Fucking hell.

 

[EmilyMiller]

https://www.cdc.gov/nisvs/documentation/nisvsReportonSexualViolence.pdf [2016 - 17]

 

[EmilyMiller]

 

[EmilyMiller]

On the stats of sexual assault as it pertains to lesbian couples. I can’t find the survey questions or a statement of the 2010 IPSVS methodology used.

But I have seen various people state that the figures could relate to what percentage of people currently in a lesbian relationship have experienced sexual assault by an intimate partner in their lifetime. It has been mentioned that some people who were in a lesbian relationship in 2010 maybe have been assaulted by a previous (non lesbian) partner.

From how the stats are worded it’s not easy to tell what they mean. However it does seem likely that assaults pertain to the individual not the relationship.

One interpretation is that some people might have established a lesbian relationship in response to assault in a prior heterosexual relationship. But I can’t find anything to better substantiate any of the above.

I would caution people to try to understand the source data and questions asked in surveys when findings are later presented in an ambiguous manner.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6113571/

Life-time prevalence of IPV in LGB couples appeared to be similar to or higher than in heterosexual ones: 61.1% of bisexual women, 43.8% of lesbian women, 37.3% of bisexual men, and 26.0% of homosexual men experienced IPV during their life, while 5.0% of heterosexual women and 29.0% of heterosexual men experienced IPV. When episodes of severe violence were considered, prevalence was similar or higher for LGB adults (bisexual women: 49.3%; lesbian women: 29.4%; homosexual men: 16.4%) compared to heterosexual adults (heterosexual women: 23.6%; heterosexual men: 13.9%) (Breiding et al., 2013).

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Messinger (2011) highlighted that all forms of abuse were more likely to occur in homosexual and bisexual couples than in heterosexual ones.

https://scholar.google.com/scholar_...3&pmid=20829231&doi=10.1177/0886260510383023&

 

[Kelliezgirl]

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-29994648

"There is a belief that sexual violence is about sexism, but it's not," says Rogers.

"A woman can perpetrate against a man, a man can perpetrate against a woman and it can happen between same-sex couples as well."

This experience prompted Rogers to set up his own Boston-based organisation to provide help, education and advocacy for members of the lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and queer (LGBTQ) community who are facing domestic abuse.

But when he first started there was a feeling in the same-sex community that speaking out about domestic abuse was "airing our dirty laundry".

 

[Kelliezgirl]

https://www.hrc.org/resources/understanding-intimate-partner-violence-in-the-lgbtq-community

Why are LGBTQ+ people at risk of IPV?
IPV, like all forms of abuse, is about maintaining power and control, be it through physical, sexual, financial, or emotional threats and violence. IPV can occur regardless of a victim or perpetrator's sexual orientation, gender identity or relative strength, and any type of person can be a victim or perpetrator of IPV regardless of their identity. However, people from marginalized groups are at an increased risk for experiencing IPV.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

https://bjs.ojp.gov/library/publica...orientation-and-gender-identity-2017-2020#0-0

The Bureau of Justice Statistics’ (BJS) National Crime
Victimization Survey (NCVS) is an annual data
collection carried out by the U.S. Census Bureau. The
NCVS is a self-report survey that is administered
annually from January 1 to December 31. Annual
NCVS estimates are based on the number and
characteristics of crimes that respondents experienced
during the prior 6 months, excluding the month in
which they were interviewed.

Domestic violence was eight times as high among
bisexual persons (32.3 victimizations per 1,000 persons
age 16 or older) and more than twice as high among
lesbian or gay persons (10.3 per 1,000) as it was among
straight persons (4.2 per 1,000).



Remember, they only measured the last 6 months, so that pretty much blows the "maybe they are referring to when their boyfriend abused them 20 years ago" out of the water.

 

[PennyThompson]

Woah dude, who are you even talking to in here?

 

[Euphony]

On the stats of sexual assault as it pertains to lesbian couples. I can’t find the survey questions or a statement of the 2010 IPSVS methodology used.

But I have seen various people state that the figures could relate to what percentage of people currently in a lesbian relationship have experienced sexual assault by an intimate partner in their lifetime. It has been mentioned that some people who were in a lesbian relationship in 2010 maybe have been assaulted by a previous (non lesbian) partner.

From how the stats are worded it’s not easy to tell what they mean. However it does seem likely that assaults pertain to the individual not the relationship.

One interpretation is that some people might have established a lesbian relationship in response to assault in a prior heterosexual relationship. But I can’t find anything to better substantiate any of the above.

I would caution people to try to understand the source data and questions asked in surveys when findings are later presented in an ambiguous manner.

Lost my institutional access months ago but got these breadcrumbs from a BBC article

Last year, the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention released figures showing people in same-sex relationships experience levels of domestic violence just as often as those in heterosexual relationships.

But the conclusions of another study this year by the Northwestern University Feinberg School of Medicine in Chicago - a review of data from four earlier studies, involving 30,000 participants - go further.

"One of our startling findings was that rates of domestic violence among same-sex couples is pretty consistently higher than for opposite sex couples," says Richard Carroll, a psychologist and co-author of the report.

Carroll's study seems particularly interesting as it reviews four studies of statistical significance.

https://news.northwestern.edu/stori...nce-likely-more-frequent-for-same-sex-couples

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/0092623X.2014.958792

 

[DeMont]

Hey everyone, it's clear this post was a bad idea. I'm still trying to figure out exactly where I went wrong and what is I can do to make amends (happy to take suggestions on that) but it's clear I've pissed off a bunch of people including some I quite respect. So I'm sorry for that and I'll just drop this line of inquiry.

@joy_of_cooking,
My dear colleague, I am most certain that we have ALL heard the old maxim that, "The only dumb question is the one you don't ask." As I mentioned in my previous response no matter the "intent" behind the question you still had a question to ask. We can all do that. Naturally we don't wish to get anybody offside but the problem that tips the scales is when you single out a section of a population for attention, that is what polarises opinions. And we're all entitled to those.

I have a proposal, I have, in the past, had many friends of all "orientations". I was the MC at a boy/boy wedding for a friend, we used to go clubbing (wayyyyyyy back in the eighties and nineties) and we would usually end up in the , please pardon my use of the obsolete term, "gay" clubs, why, because they were far more fun and less "pick up joint" than the "regular clubs" - thus I would fall into the writing category of "perception" that I used.

I wonder what would happen if I, built as an Alpha male that's seen and done a lot, attempted, as a "Writer's Challenge" to myself to give you exactly what you asked for, "a happy, chill lesbian story". What do you think?
Most respectfully to all the wonderful ladies ladies here,
D.