Here is something to consider Re: The MN Tragedy That I Can Almost Guarantee You've Not Heard Discussed

[Hel_Books]

. . . , the "gun" argument is so silly to not even be worth addressing, but I will just say that at no time in history has a gun ever killed a human, as these are inert objects . . .

Some people from the USA still make this argument. But their country is the only one on the planet where these mass shootings happen so incredibly often (on a more than daily basis!). Other countries aren't drowning in a swamp full of firearms (failed states like Syria aside) so their citizens aren't always ducking bullets.

Visit another country some time. Watch the evening news.

 

[Bn2f]

You claim to be a scientist, then quickly prove you’re anything but

Place a super soaker in his hands
Same outcome?

Dude basically wrote a treatise explaining the scientific validity of saying ‘thoughts and prayers’ to gun victims.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Beto, Biden, Kamala, Obama, the list goes on and ALL OF THEM are on record about it.

Basically you're just lying now because your ignorance has led you down the path of democrat/socialist ideology without you realizing it's a one way trip to hell.

I followed Kamala and Obama pretty close and never heard them say anything remotely close to what you are claiming. Biden I didn't stay too up on since it really didn't matter at that point but maybe I missed something. Beto I'm fairly certain is not on record saying anything like that. I'm not lying, nor am I ignorant. I know that the Democrat/Socialist ideology is the only way to save this country from hell. We know how bad the opposite is and how terribly it failes each and every time any idiot tries it.

 

[Lazaran]

Gun or knife, does it really matter the method?

Um, yeah, it really does…

You can say what you want but religious institutions can play a big part in helping these people. People need something to believe in, a higher power, believe their lives are important, people around them are important. IMHO

Religious indoctrination & persecution contribute bigly to violence (and likely contributed bigly in the Minnesota shooting).



Hole that ^ helps.



ineedhelp1



We. Told. Them. So.

 

[HisArpy]

I followed Kamala and Obama pretty close and never heard them say anything remotely close to what you are claiming. Biden I didn't stay too up on since it really didn't matter at that point but maybe I missed something. Beto I'm fairly certain is not on record saying anything like that. I'm not lying, nor am I ignorant. I know that the Democrat/Socialist ideology is the only way to save this country from hell. We know how bad the opposite is and how terribly it failes each and every time any idiot tries it.

Kamala:

While at a campaign rally in Portsmouth, New Hampshire, shortly after the Apalachee shooting, Harris, the Democratic presidential nominee, renewed calls for an assault weapons ban, universal background checks and red flag laws.
https://washingtonstatestandard.com/2024/10/20/guns-where-do-trump-and-harris-stand/

Biden:

Obama:

President Obama will sign 23 Executive Actions today that will help keep our kids safe, he was clear that he cannot and should not act alone: The most important changes depend on Congressional action. The President is calling on lawmakers to pass some specific proposals, including the elimination of all loopholes and require a universal background check on anyone trying to buy a gun, restoring the ban on military-style assault weapons and a 10-round limit for magazines, and creating tougher penalties on people who buy guns with the express purpose of reselling them to criminals.
https://obamawhitehouse.archives.go...a-announces-new-measures-prevent-gun-violence

Beto:

Former Rep. Beto O’Rourke of Texas has made his position on assault weapons crystal clear. “Hell, yes, we’re going to take your AR-15, your AK-47,” O’Rourke said during Thursday’s Democratic presidential debate.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/14/politics/beto-orourke-assault-guns-confiscation-fact-check

Basically, it appears that either you're an ignorant fuckwit; or you're a lying asshole, when you say that you've never heard any of the above say anything about banning or seizing guns.

Fun fact, you get to pick which of the 2 options you are. There is no 3rd choice.

 

[Lazaran]

Kamala:


Biden:

Obama:


Beto:



Basically, it appears that either you're an ignorant fuckwit; or you're a lying asshole, when you say that you've never heard any of the above say anything about banning or seizing guns.

Fun fact, you get to pick which of the 2 options you are. There is no 3rd choice.

Derpy just can’t stop conflating sensible gun control laws with "THEY WANT TO ELIMINATE GUNS!!!" and "THEY WANT TO BAN GUNS".

NONE of the proposed legislation suggests anyone wants to "ELIMINATE GUNS!!!" or "BAN GUNS!!!

The ammosexual incels would / will still have endless choices of "GUNS!!!" (steel penis substitutes in the case of the ammosexual incels) in the event that sensible gun laws are passed into laws. Maybe not ridiculously overpowered weapons with ridiculous ammo capacities & ridiculous mass murder capabilities, but still…



Derpy



We. Told. Them. So.

 

[HisArpy]

Derpy just can’t stop conflating sensible gun control laws with "THEY WANT TO ELIMINATE GUNS!!!" and "THEY WANT TO BAN GUNS".

NONE of the proposed legislation suggests anyone wants to "ELIMINATE GUNS!!!" or "BAN GUNS!!!

The ammosexual incels would / will still have endless choices of "GUNS!!!" (steel penis substitutes in the case of the ammosexual incels) in the event that sensible gun laws are passed into laws. Maybe not ridiculously overpowered weapons with ridiculous ammo capacities & ridiculous mass murder capabilities, but still…



Derpy



We. Told. Them. So.

dudly, contrary to what you want to believe in your fucked up head, an Assault Weapons BAN is IN FACT a gun ban.

And of course, specific words of "you bet we're coming for your guns" usually mean exactly that.

 

[Lazaran]

dudly, contrary to what you want to believe in your fucked up head, an Assault Weapons BAN is IN FACT a gun ban.

And of course, specific words of "you bet we're coming for your guns" usually mean exactly that.

Derpy just keeps derping.



Question:

If assault weapons, high capacity magazines, bump-stocks, ghost guns, , Glock switches, etc, are banned, and sensible requirements for the sale & ownership of guns are established, will there still be guns for sale, and will people still be able to keep and bear arms??



Answer:

Yep.



Derpy



We. Told. Them. So.

 

[Sean Renaud]

There’s an important catalyst to these type of murders that those of us who comment on them seem to ignore and that’s the mental state of these individuals. Low self worth and low self esteem which inevitably leads to their own self demise. Most who commit these heinous acts usually kill themselves afterwards.

Most of these mentally disturbed and unstable individuals choose a slow death by using drugs or alcohol as demonstrated by the thousands of homeless individuals that exist on our streets. Every so often one of these mentally disturbed individuals gain access to a firearm and will take it up a notch, impose his pain on others before destroying him or herself. Gun or knife, does it really matter the method? Mental health facilities are far and few. We desperately need to expand our mental health services, rebuild our long lost medical facilities that deal with mental health and start caring for these people. I guess you could call it medical incarceration for their own sake.

You can say what you want but religious institutions can play a big part in helping these people. People need something to believe in, a higher power, believe their lives are important, people around them are important. IMHO

Show your work. There doesn't seem to be a lot of evidence supporting that that most of these people choose a slow death via drugs or alchol (which is damn hard to kill yourself with) that seems to largely be a myth the right has primarily fabricated to get us to stop thinking of them as people. Especially over the last few years how many people do we hear about living out of cars who have jobs?

Yes it absolutely matters gun or knife and even what kind of gun. Though we really shouldn't be talking JUST or even primarily about 'these sorts of things' which I assume you mean are mass/school shootings. As much as the media speaks about them they aren't the majority of deaths or shootings. The majority once you factor out suicides are homicide. Usually male on female. Go check the FBI stats for any random year. The most dangerous thing a woman can do is be romantically involved with a man, especially in a red state. IT should be added to the X-games.

Religious institutions will do more harm than good and I wouldn't dare give them an iota of power they don't already have and would do everything we can get what they still have away from them. I'm 100% for improved health care but we live in a pretty toxic society and I fear that's an absolute dead end.

Again if we look at the stats I would start with first responders and military getting a mandatory psych eval every year on the state. No you don't get a choice in the matter. Nobody is accusing you of anything, we're just checking up on you because we've done the math. And obviously make it mandatory more often if they experience trauma. Death of a family member, separation from spouse separation from their job.

 

[73Seahawks]

Big question is whether Minnesota Governor Tim Walz will seek reelection to a third term in 2026?

 

[icanhelp1]

Show your work. There doesn't seem to be a lot of evidence supporting that that most of these people choose a slow death via drugs or alchol (which is damn hard to kill yourself with) that seems to largely be a myth the right has primarily fabricated to get us to stop thinking of them as people. Especially over the last few years how many people do we hear about living out of cars who have jobs?

Yes it absolutely matters gun or knife and even what kind of gun. Though we really shouldn't be talking JUST or even primarily about 'these sorts of things' which I assume you mean are mass/school shootings. As much as the media speaks about them they aren't the majority of deaths or shootings. The majority once you factor out suicides are homicide. Usually male on female. Go check the FBI stats for any random year. The most dangerous thing a woman can do is be romantically involved with a man, especially in a red state. IT should be added to the X-games.

Religious institutions will do more harm than good and I wouldn't dare give them an iota of power they don't already have and would do everything we can get what they still have away from them. I'm 100% for improved health care but we live in a pretty toxic society and I fear that's an absolute dead end.

Again if we look at the stats I would start with first responders and military getting a mandatory psych eval every year on the state. No you don't get a choice in the matter. Nobody is accusing you of anything, we're just checking up on you because we've done the math. And obviously make it mandatory more often if they experience trauma. Death of a family member, separation from spouse separation from their job.

To a dark heart knife or gun doesn't make a difference. The evil is the same. It's obvious that there are differences between a knife and a gun, guns = volume but guns don't kill... people do! It's the hate inside one's heart that leads to killing. Killing one person is just as heinous as killing 30. With 30 it's obvious more people are affected but the hate is the same. To a dark heart killing one or killing 30 is more about opportunity, they kill till they can't kill anymore and in most cases they end their own life. imho

 

[icanhelp1]

Show your work. There doesn't seem to be a lot of evidence supporting that that most of these people choose a slow death via drugs or alchol (which is damn hard to kill yourself with) that seems to largely be a myth the right has primarily fabricated to get us to stop thinking of them as people. Especially over the last few years how many people do we hear about living out of cars who have jobs?

Yes it absolutely matters gun or knife and even what kind of gun. Though we really shouldn't be talking JUST or even primarily about 'these sorts of things' which I assume you mean are mass/school shootings. As much as the media speaks about them they aren't the majority of deaths or shootings. The majority once you factor out suicides are homicide. Usually male on female. Go check the FBI stats for any random year. The most dangerous thing a woman can do is be romantically involved with a man, especially in a red state. IT should be added to the X-games.

Religious institutions will do more harm than good and I wouldn't dare give them an iota of power they don't already have and would do everything we can get what they still have away from them. I'm 100% for improved health care but we live in a pretty toxic society and I fear that's an absolute dead end.

Again if we look at the stats I would start with first responders and military getting a mandatory psych eval every year on the state. No you don't get a choice in the matter. Nobody is accusing you of anything, we're just checking up on you because we've done the math. And obviously make it mandatory more often if they experience trauma. Death of a family member, separation from spouse separation from their job.

So, Samaritan's purse is some kind of evil empire?

 

[Bn2f]

Ican: Lemme explain to ya bout killing. I’ll use a gun and a knife as examples, but remember, in the case of a gun, it’s the dark heart of the individual that’s doing the killing - not the gun.

 

[Rightguide]

Again if we look at the stats I would start with first responders and military getting a mandatory psych eval every year on the state. No you don't get a choice in the matter. Nobody is accusing you of anything, we're just checking up on you because we've done the math. And obviously make it mandatory more often if they experience trauma. Death of a family member, separation from spouse separation from their job.

Show us the math.

 

[Bn2f]

Show us the math.

Relating to the murder of a praying congregation in a church in Charleston - Did those black lives matter?

 

[HisArpy]

Derpy just keeps derping.



Question:

If assault weapons, high capacity magazines, bump-stocks, ghost guns, , Glock switches, etc, are banned, and sensible requirements for the sale & ownership of guns are established, will there still be guns for sale, and will people still be able to keep and bear arms??



Answer:

Yep.



Derpy



We. Told. Them. So.

This isn't the question. The question was that you fuckups hadn't heard of anyone saying they were going to ban and/or confiscate guns.

Yet I posted links to the FACTS.

Which you now conveniently ignore in your desperate attempt to switch to your alternate reality.

 

[Lazaran]

This isn't the question. The question was that you fuckups hadn't heard of anyone saying they were going to ban and/or confiscate guns.

Yet I posted links to the FACTS.

Which you now conveniently ignore in your desperate attempt to switch to your alternate reality.

Derpy seems to forget that DONOLD TRUMP is the one who said he was in favor of confiscating gums WITHOUT DUE PROCESS (DonOld really is a corrupt, traitorous, one-"man" constitutional crisis):

https://www.law.gwu.edu/president-trumps-take-guns-first-remark-sparks-due-process-debate



Derpy just can’t stop derping up.



Derpy



Side note to Derpy:

Banning a limited subset of guns & gun accessories, confiscating guns from a limited subset of individuals AFTER it has been determined to a reasonable certainty that they pose a threat to themselves or others, and establishing a background check / registration system for gun ownership is NOT radical OR extreme (I’m actually pro-gun ownership within reason: A ten shot pistol, shotgun, or rifle is MOAR than enough to satisfy my or anyone else’s needs AND the 2nd amendment; full stop).





We. Told. Them. So.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Show us the math.

Veteran suicides are 58% higher than the general population.

First responders, specifically Law Enforcement are also at elevated rates of suicide than the general population. In fact First Responders are more dangerous to themselves than the job directly is. I'm not seeing a breakdown of how many are criminals shooting law enforcement vs vehicle accidents, fire deaths or miscellaneous absolute bullshit. Even though its a bit of a joke statistic that more people are killed by vending machines each year than by sharks. I reckon that the number of idiots shaking vending machines for that bag of Cheetos that didn't fall is greater than the number of people who go to the beach any given year. I digress. What I mean is I'm sure there is a fire fighter who got electrocuted by downed wire. An EMT who didn't put the parking break on and was hit by their own vehicle.

The overall point is any job that is claimed to be dangerous but you're more likely to punch your own ticket than get killed doing it is one where maybe we would be wise to look into what can be done to help.

My uneducated purely from observation is that twelve hour shifts are brutal even when you have a low stress job which they do not. In the case of LEA they are inadequately trained to handle many of the situations they are called into handle. They are not social workers and maybe some guy who is outside screaming naked needs someone who has training in mental illness, not in how to safely disarm a perp. I imagine there is guilt from the ones they couldn't save or have seen.

End of the day I'm not qualified to judge that. What I am qualified to say is that what we are doing is failing the people who we claim to back. The Right worst of all are the first to scream back the blue or the troops but the last to put money into programs to help.

 

[Rightguide]

Veteran suicides are 58% higher than the general population.

First responders, specifically Law Enforcement are also at elevated rates of suicide than the general population. In fact First Responders are more dangerous to themselves than the job directly is. I'm not seeing a breakdown of how many are criminals shooting law enforcement vs vehicle accidents, fire deaths or miscellaneous absolute bullshit. Even though its a bit of a joke statistic that more people are killed by vending machines each year than by sharks. I reckon that the number of idiots shaking vending machines for that bag of Cheetos that didn't fall is greater than the number of people who go to the beach any given year. I digress. What I mean is I'm sure there is a fire fighter who got electrocuted by downed wire. An EMT who didn't put the parking break on and was hit by their own vehicle.

The overall point is any job that is claimed to be dangerous but you're more likely to punch your own ticket than get killed doing it is one where maybe we would be wise to look into what can be done to help.

My uneducated purely from observation is that twelve hour shifts are brutal even when you have a low stress job which they do not. In the case of LEA they are inadequately trained to handle many of the situations they are called into handle. They are not social workers and maybe some guy who is outside screaming naked needs someone who has training in mental illness, not in how to safely disarm a perp. I imagine there is guilt from the ones they couldn't save or have seen.

End of the day I'm not qualified to judge that. What I am qualified to say is that what we are doing is failing the people who we claim to back. The Right worst of all are the first to scream back the blue or the troops but the last to put money into programs to help.

You said you did the math. Let's look at the niumbers.

 

[Sean Renaud]

To a dark heart knife or gun doesn't make a difference. The evil is the same. It's obvious that there are differences between a knife and a gun, guns = volume but guns don't kill... people do! It's the hate inside one's heart that leads to killing. Killing one person is just as heinous as killing 30. With 30 it's obvious more people are affected but the hate is the same. To a dark heart killing one or killing 30 is more about opportunity, they kill till they can't kill anymore and in most cases they end their own life. imho

To a dark heart a knife or gun does make a difference. This isn't Power Rangers or My Little Pony. A dark heart does not grant super powers. Numbers fucking matter. Killing thirty people is by definition thirty times worse than killing one. That's how numbers work. You're also as conservatives do hyper focused on one aspect instead of the big picture. Mass shootings are grand scheme of things rare. Most of the time we're talking arguments that got out of hand and without a fire arm easily at hand the victim would at the very least have a better chance of escaping or defending themselves. We like guns specifically because they facilitate killing.

 

[Sean Renaud]

You said you did the math. Let's look at the niumbers.

I apologize for being less than precise with my language. I meant that we know that the numbers are greater in specific areas, not that I had an actual equation. I tend to forget that you are a very literal person.

 

[icanhelp1]

To a dark heart a knife or gun does make a difference. This isn't Power Rangers or My Little Pony. A dark heart does not grant super powers. Numbers fucking matter. Killing thirty people is by definition thirty times worse than killing one. That's how numbers work. You're also as conservatives do hyper focused on one aspect instead of the big picture. Mass shootings are grand scheme of things rare. Most of the time we're talking arguments that got out of hand and without a fire arm easily at hand the victim would at the very least have a better chance of escaping or defending themselves. We like guns specifically because they facilitate killing.

You missed my point.

 

[Sean Renaud]

You missed my point.

Then what was it? Because you seem to not believe that the number of lives lost is important. Or that its more difficult to defend yourself against a fire arm than a melee weapon.

 

[icanhelp1]

Then what was it? Because you seem to not believe that the number of lives lost is important. Or that its more difficult to defend yourself against a fire arm than a melee weapon.

My point is not whether the dark heart has a 50 cal machine gun, frag grenade, bayonet or a vehicle, they all can be used to kill people. Those are just mechanisms. The root of the problem is mental illness, environmental, loss of family values, proper upbringing, internet poison, lack of mental health access, peer pressure, internal conflicts due to societal pressures and substance abuse. Guns are inanimate objects and don’t need fixing, dark hearts do. In the mean time, we, as a society have to have the resolve to harden soft targets such as schools and places of worship.

 

[HisArpy]

My point is not whether the dark heart has a 50 cal machine gun, frag grenade, bayonet or a vehicle, they all can be used to kill people. Those are just mechanisms. The root of the problem is mental illness, environmental, loss of family values, proper upbringing, internet poison, lack of mental health access, peer pressure, internal conflicts due to societal pressures and substance abuse. Guns are inanimate objects and don’t need fixing, dark hearts do. In the mean time, we, as a society have to have the resolve to harden soft targets such as schools and places of worship.

This is spot on but he, and most of the other anti-gun zealots, won't understand.

He, and they, not only normalize mental illness, they embrace it as a wholesome lifestyle even while knowing that it is not. I believe they do this not out of compassion or consideration, but because they themselves are also mentally ill yet cannot see or admit how destructive it is to not only themselves but to the larger world around us. Nor do they care because like most zealots the only driving factor is to soothe the mental illness which drives them to the insanity of thought and deed.

And while I agree with hardening soft targets, the true solution lies in pacifying those who would attack such targets as we did with native Americans who would not live in peace with their new neighbors and instead chose to go to war against children because it was easy since they couldn't fight back. At least until they learned the hard way that their fathers would and could.