The Exact Same NC/R Discussion We Always Have... Once More.

[TheRedChamber]

Regarding self-sacrifice, people like to insert themselves into all kinds of stories.

There's a not-quite-joke about a husband, wife and small children being out and about, and the wife saying 'You're looking very pensive. What is on your mind?' For once the guy doesn't reply with his usual 'Nothing. You know. Work stuff' but tells the truth. 'I'm thinking about how I would fend off a tiger attack on my family using only the tools available in this section of the mall.'

Now, the more realistic day-dreamer will admit that going one-on-one with a tiger isn't going to end well (although if I can get to that janitors trolly, get the lid of the detergent and blind it before...) so it then becomes how can I buy my family enough time to escape and maybe morphs into his daughter in the playground proudly fighting back the tears to say her daddy died taking on a tiger for her. Am I the kind of guy who would make the ultimate sacrifice and become kitty chow for my family? Of course I am! (Less bothered about my country TBH)

And face it, it's probably a better way to go than having a heart attack on the golf course at the age of sixty-three having been an accounting middle manager all your life. Although from a more practical standpoint, if any tigers are reading, please make the epic last battle one where I'm saving, say, my sixth great-grandchild from peril.

But I'm not thinking about any of that myself, obviously. I'm just here thinking about work.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Regarding self-sacrifice, people like to insert themselves into all kinds of stories.

There's a not-quite-joke about a husband, wife and small children being out and about, and the wife saying 'You're looking very pensive. What is on your mind?' For once the guy doesn't reply with his usual 'Nothing. You know. Work stuff' but tells the truth. 'I'm thinking about how I would fend off a tiger attack on my family using only the tool available in this section of the mall.'

Now, the more realistic day-dreamer will admit that going one-on-one with a tiger isn't going to end well (although if I can get to that janitors trolly, get the lid of the detergent and blind it before...) so it then becomes how can I buy my family enough time to escape and maybe morphs into his daughter in the playground proudly fighting back the tears to say her daddy died taking on a tiger for her. Am I the kind of guy who would make the ultimate sacrifice and become kitty chow for my family. Of course I am. (Less bothered about my country TBH)

And face it, it's probably a better way to go than having a heart attack on the golf course at the age of sixty-three having been an accounting middle manager all your life. Although from a more practical standpoint, if any tigers are reading, please make the epic last battle one where I'm saving, say, my sixth great-grandchild from peril.

But I'm not thinking about any of that myself, obviously. I'm just here thinking about work.

If I ever choke to death on a Gummi Bear just tell everyone I was killed by a bear... they don't need details.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...-his-wife-bobcat-grabbing-hurling-it-n1264459

Anytime this guy's wife is upset with him all he's gotta do is say, "bobcat".

 

[AlinaX]

“She was killed by a bear…”
“I always said it would be a thought experiment that would get her in the end.”
“That was her hypothesis too.”

 

[OverconfidentSarcasm]

Well, I've read the thread, and don't see anyone addressing what these two things have in common. Ideas anyone?

I believe, psychologically, it's a combination of unchecked romanticization and what's known as the "Call of the Void", which is commonly hypothesized to be a misinterpreted safety signal by our brains. It's meant to make you move away from danger, but, instead, because of the low intensity, it's interpreted as excitement.

There are multiple studies that prove women consume a lot more porn and erotica dealing with rape themes than men do. But what's often omitted is that the type of rape-porn women consume is the kind where nobody gets beaten, nobody cries, nobody gets traumatized, and nobody has to deal with PTSD or other consequences afterwards. It's mostly Fifty Shades Of Gray kinda crap. It's a simple play with the strange feeling of excitement one might experience when imagining being overpowered. This, by the way, is (probably) the same mechanism that makes men enjoy cuckolding/humiliation porn.
They don't fantasize about pain. They just fantasize about the power dynamic. In most cases, that is. And while they do, they know it could be a bad thing, but since they're just fantasizing, they also know they're perfectly safe, so they can freely enjoy the excitement that comes with it.

With the self-sacrificing hero, it's essentially the same. Just look at movies. I'm thinking Tony Stark snapping his fingers to save half the universe, or the second Terminator lowering himself into the pool of molten steel to stop Skynet from being created, or Bruce Willis blowing himself up with a goddamn nuke to destroy the asteroid heading for earth. Movies frame it as this noble, grand thing that makes the "hero" a legend, worshiped by all, and there are countless examples of this.
What people don't think about is the part where they'd be dead after making said sacrifice, and wouldn't be able to experience any of the worship.

Another, less extreme example of unchecked romanticization would be all the people who would like to experience life in a medieval/fantasy setting, because life was easier back then, or the air was cleaner, or whatever other reason they have. Nobody thinks about digging a latrine in the middle of winter, or cleaning it in the summer.

 

[MediocreAuthor]

They don't fantasize about pain. They just fantasize about the power dynamic. In most cases, that is. And while they do, they know it could be a bad thing, but since they're just fantasizing, they also know they're perfectly safe, so they can freely enjoy the excitement that comes with it.

So I've talked to a lot of male NC/R fans because of my writing, and I've noticed that very few of the men admitted to enjoying painful fantasies.

Now there's a very real chance that many DO enjoy it, but refuse to admit it to me, because they think: "I can't tell this lady exactly how perverted I am; it'll freak her out."

But I have had them admit some pretty depraved stuff, and yet few seemed to be into pain. Then again, I never wrote about pain (at worst I wrote about discomfort) so maybe my writing just never drew in that crowd ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

 

[SimonDoom]

I suppose their are men who fantasize about dying heroically, but I think there are more who fantasize about being in an extreme, heroic situation and surviving. This would parallel the kind of nonconsent fantasy that OverconfidentSarcasm is talking about: extreme behavior without consequence. This is the essence of the nonconsent story fantasy. The "but she has to enjoy it" rule makes no sense in light of real-world experience, but it makes PERFECT sense in light of what people's fantasies are, and that, after all, is the whole point of this Site -- to offer the reader a few moments of erotic fantasy, without real-world consequence. It's not that different, in concept, from incest stories, or certain Exhibitionist & Voyeur stories, or other stories. People like to fantasize about extreme behavior that they get away with.

 

[AG31]

I believe, psychologically, it's a combination of unchecked romanticization and what's known as the "Call of the Void", which is commonly hypothesized to be a misinterpreted safety signal by our brains. It's meant to make you move away from danger, but, instead, because of the low intensity, it's interpreted as excitement.

There are multiple studies that prove women consume a lot more porn and erotica dealing with rape themes than men do. But what's often omitted is that the type of rape-porn women consume is the kind where nobody gets beaten, nobody cries, nobody gets traumatized, and nobody has to deal with PTSD or other consequences afterwards. It's mostly Fifty Shades Of Gray kinda crap. It's a simple play with the strange feeling of excitement one might experience when imagining being overpowered. This, by the way, is (probably) the same mechanism that makes men enjoy cuckolding/humiliation porn.
They don't fantasize about pain. They just fantasize about the power dynamic. In most cases, that is. And while they do, they know it could be a bad thing, but since they're just fantasizing, they also know they're perfectly safe, so they can freely enjoy the excitement that comes with it.

With the self-sacrificing hero, it's essentially the same. Just look at movies. I'm thinking Tony Stark snapping his fingers to save half the universe, or the second Terminator lowering himself into the pool of molten steel to stop Skynet from being created, or Bruce Willis blowing himself up with a goddamn nuke to destroy the asteroid heading for earth. Movies frame it as this noble, grand thing that makes the "hero" a legend, worshiped by all, and there are countless examples of this.
What people don't think about is the part where they'd be dead after making said sacrifice, and wouldn't be able to experience any of the worship.

Another, less extreme example of unchecked romanticization would be all the people who would like to experience life in a medieval/fantasy setting, because life was easier back then, or the air was cleaner, or whatever other reason they have. Nobody thinks about digging a latrine in the middle of winter, or cleaning it in the summer.

Excellent! Gotta research this "call of the void" thing.

 

[gunhilltrain]

With the caveat that I don't really get that kind of literature, I think it has more to do with a culture where women are more constrained in their sexual desires.
"Good girls don't do that..." and so forth. So there is a certain thrill to not being in control, because it means not being responsible, shedding the societal baggage.
In most of that literature there is more of a aspect of sexual gratification for the women than exists in real cases of sexual assault for the most part. It isn't about wanting to be assaulted, but about shedding the societal constraints.

For men, it isn't about wanting to die, but about wanting to die heroically.

The Alamo, Thermopylae, Roarke's Drift, Cameron, Shiroyama... those heroic last stands are the stuff of legends. We are still talking about them, writing books about them, making movies about them centuries afterwards.
There is a certain primal attraction to that.

There are so many digressions in this thread, so I'll go with warfare on this post. Most battles are not heroic, although perhaps they should give a medal to anybody who even steps on a battlefield. (Actually, the military does do such things with "campaign medals," which honor you for being there I think.)

1. Major battles can be hugely costly in lives and suffering. Hue City (Vietnam), Stalingrad, Okinawa, the Somme, Gallipoli (the entire First World War in fact), Fredericksburg (the entire American Civil War) and so forth endlessly. At one point I think the average life span of each new Soviet soldier entering Stalingrad was something like twenty-four hours.

2. What was the war about? Roarke's Drift was the day after a major British defeat. But the British started the war with the Zulus; it was their country and the Zulus were defending it. The Alamo was inside Mexico at the time. The Americans there were immigrants that the Mexican government had invited in. When rebellions broke out in various Mexican states, the Texans decided that was a chance to make a break for it.

That's a start.

 

[AG31]

There are so many digressions in this thread, so I'll go with warfare on this post. Most battles are not heroic, although perhaps they should give a medal to anybody who even steps on a battlefield. (Actually, the military does do such things with "campaign medals," which honor you for being there I think.)

1. Major battles can be hugely costly in lives and suffering. Hue City (Vietnam), Stalingrad, Okinawa, the Somme, Gallipoli (the entire First World War in fact), Fredericksburg (the entire American Civil War) and so forth endlessly. At one point I think the average life span of each new Soviet soldier entering Stalingrad was something like twenty-four hours.

2. What was the war about? Roarke's Drift was the day after a major British defeat. But the British started the war with the Zulus; it was their country and the Zulus were defending it. The Alamo was inside Mexico at the time. The Americans there were immigrants that the Mexican government had invited in. When rebellions broke out in various Mexican states, the Texans decided that was a chance to make a break for it.

That's a start.

What's your point? The question was about fantasies.

 

[gunhilltrain]

What's your point? The question was about fantasies.

The thread started out about fantasies of both rape and war (the OP specifically mentions World War I) and some posters here talked about the differences between fantasy and reality. People also discussed why fantasies about these things are liked by consumers of fiction of different types. I think writing and movies were among the ones mentioned. The person I was responding to mentioned a number of battles that have appealed to the male desire to die heroically. So I think what I wrote about is relevant to this discussion.

 

[MediocreAuthor]

It's not that different, in concept, from incest stories, or certain Exhibitionist & Voyeur stories,

You know, that's an interesting point. As much vitriol as I've seen levied against NC/R, I've never seen similar anger against Voyeur, which is also super messed up in real life. In spite of the fact that both are nonconsensual interactions.

At least from my understanding, voyeurism is sometimes the first step before an attack, as a predator lurks and watches before making their move.

Ironically, the stalking scenes featured in some NC/R stories are really uncomfortable and disgusting to me as a reader, and far more unnerving than the actual attack (again, at least to me, personally).

I know this is off topic from my original point, but you just got me thinking.

 

[SimonDoom]

You know, that's an interesting point. As much vitriol as I've seen levied against NC/R, I've never seen similar anger against Voyeur, which is also super messed up in real life. In spite of the fact that both are nonconsensual interactions.

At least from my understanding, voyeurism is sometimes the first step before an attack, as a predator lurks and watches before making their move.

Ironically, the stalking scenes featured in some NC/R stories are really uncomfortable and disgusting to me as a reader, and far more unnerving than the actual attack (again, at least to me, personally).

I know this is off topic from my original point, but you just got me thinking.

It IS legitimately related, because when you really think of it the same kinds of things that make us uneasy about NC/R, taken to a sufficient level of abstraction, are troubling about other categories as well. And yet, they don't bother people the same way.

 

[Comshaw]

I believe, psychologically, it's a combination of unchecked romanticization and what's known as the "Call of the Void", which is commonly hypothesized to be a misinterpreted safety signal by our brains. It's meant to make you move away from danger, but, instead, because of the low intensity, it's interpreted as excitement.

There are multiple studies that prove women consume a lot more porn and erotica dealing with rape themes than men do. But what's often omitted is that the type of rape-porn women consume is the kind where nobody gets beaten, nobody cries, nobody gets traumatized, and nobody has to deal with PTSD or other consequences afterwards. It's mostly Fifty Shades Of Gray kinda crap. It's a simple play with the strange feeling of excitement one might experience when imagining being overpowered. This, by the way, is (probably) the same mechanism that makes men enjoy cuckolding/humiliation porn.
They don't fantasize about pain. They just fantasize about the power dynamic. In most cases, that is. And while they do, they know it could be a bad thing, but since they're just fantasizing, they also know they're perfectly safe, so they can freely enjoy the excitement that comes with it.

With the self-sacrificing hero, it's essentially the same. Just look at movies. I'm thinking Tony Stark snapping his fingers to save half the universe, or the second Terminator lowering himself into the pool of molten steel to stop Skynet from being created, or Bruce Willis blowing himself up with a goddamn nuke to destroy the asteroid heading for earth. Movies frame it as this noble, grand thing that makes the "hero" a legend, worshiped by all, and there are countless examples of this.
What people don't think about is the part where they'd be dead after making said sacrifice, and wouldn't be able to experience any of the worship.

Another, less extreme example of unchecked romanticization would be all the people who would like to experience life in a medieval/fantasy setting, because life was easier back then, or the air was cleaner, or whatever other reason they have. Nobody thinks about digging a latrine in the middle of winter, or cleaning it in the summer.

And this is what gets overlooked or ignored in discussions of fantasy vrs reality. As far as war, having seen it from both sides, I can say with certainty one is nothing like the other, at least for the vast majority.

As a boy I had many WWII vets in my life. I looked up to them, idolized them. I fantasized about going to war and doing all those heroic things that boys and men build in their minds. I had a view of war as just that, that I would go to war, win metals, come home a hero and strut my stuff to the accolades and applause of everyone. It gave me hours of pleasure making all those heroic things happen in my head, or playing at war with my friends. That was my fantasy, until I went off to war. The fantasy and reality of such things aren't even close to the same. And it's a damn hard crash when the fantasy is replaced with reality.

While I can't say from experience it's the same with rape and rape fantasies, to me it feels like it should be. A woman who has been told all her life she needs to be "a good girl" and not give in to those base sexual desires coursing through her, reads an NC story and fantasizes about being taken by a handsome man, or two even, forced to do those things her body is telling her she wants, but society has stomped into her are evil. And in the end in her fantasy it's always pleasurable for her. She can enjoy it because in that fantasy, she is free to do whatever she desires and enjoy it. However, she is still in control even as she fantasizes she isn't. For many it's an end run around those things that society has conditioned her to believe are evil or at a minimum despicable.

The reality of rape is far different. It's always brutal and never enjoyable for the woman even if she climaxes from it. And most times the trauma (like that from war) lasts a lifetime. No woman would ever want that, ever.

All those who don't understand the difference are either not intelligent enough, compassionate enough, or mentally flexible enough to understand the difference between fantasy and reality.




Comshaw

 

[AG31]

I believe, psychologically, it's a combination of unchecked romanticization and what's known as the "Call of the Void", which is commonly hypothesized to be a misinterpreted safety signal by our brains.

I'd never warmed to the notion that women's rape fantasies are rooted in the need to have permission to let go in a way that society prohibits. One of the main reasons this never rang a bell for me is that the part of my brain that gravitates to BDSM overlaps significantly with the part of my brain that is drawn to stories of heroic sacrifice (Nathan Hale, Arthurian legends, etc.) And about four years ago my fantasies morphed from female MCs to male MCs, same BDSM themes.

So I did a little Googling of Call of the Void. It's clear there's something going on there, but it's not clear to me that we've pinned down the whys of it. I do think it's the closest thing I've come upon, though, to explaining my own predilections. So thanks again.

 

[OverconfidentSarcasm]

And this is what gets overlooked or ignored in discussions of fantasy vrs reality. As far as war, having seen it from both sides, I can say with certainty one is nothing like the other, at least for the vast majority.

As a boy I had many WWII vets in my life. I looked up to them, idolized them. I fantasized about going to war and doing all those heroic things that boys and men build in their minds. I had a view of war as just that, that I would go to war, win metals, come home a hero and strut my stuff to the accolades and applause of everyone. It gave me hours of pleasure making all those heroic things happen in my head, or playing at war with my friends. That was my fantasy, until I went off to war. The fantasy and reality of such things aren't even close to the same. And it's a damn hard crash when the fantasy is replaced with reality.

While I can't say from experience it's the same with rape and rape fantasies, to me it feels like it should be. A woman who has been told all her life she needs to be "a good girl" and not give in to those base sexual desires coursing through her, reads an NC story and fantasizes about being taken by a handsome man, or two even, forced to do those things her body is telling her she wants, but society has stomped into her are evil. And in the end in her fantasy it's always pleasurable for her. She can enjoy it because in that fantasy, she is free to do whatever she desires and enjoy it. However, she is still in control even as she fantasizes she isn't. For many it's an end run around those things that society has conditioned her to believe are evil or at a minimum despicable.

The reality of rape is far different. It's always brutal and never enjoyable for the woman even if she climaxes from it. And most times the trauma (like that from war) lasts a lifetime. No woman would ever want that, ever.

All those who don't understand the difference are either not intelligent enough, compassionate enough, or mentally flexible enough to understand the difference between fantasy and reality.




Comshaw

I 100% agree... with most of what you wrote. But since you mentioned the "reality of rape", I feel compelled to add three little points:

It's always brutal

The vast majority of rape happens to victims that are passed-out drunk, nonfunctionally drugged-up, being blackmailed, or groomed minors. Only a fraction of rape contains acts of physical violence.

No woman would ever want that, ever.

The problem is that there actually are women who want that. They aren't exactly healthy individuals, but they exist, and they're often used as anecdotal scapegoats by people who like to blame the victims of rape in such discussions.

[...] and never enjoyable for the woman even if she climaxes from it.

"Rape victim" should not be a synonym for "Female". As I wrote above, the majority of rape victims are of questionable awareness, to put it mildly. And that happens to men and boys almost as often as to women and girls.

 

[OverconfidentSarcasm]

I'd never warmed to the notion that women's rape fantasies are rooted in the need to have permission to let go in a way that society prohibits.

That's actually not what I meant to say with my post, either. I think there was another, similar thread a few weeks (months?) ago, where the question was raised why people enjoy writing NC/R stories. And, back then, I also posted that the answer is pretty simple: Fantasizing about doing outrageous shit can be extremely exciting.

It's the excitement that plays the biggest part here, but what that excitement is rooted in will vary from case to case. It can emerge because one comes from a place of repressed sexuality. Or it's the excitement of exposing yourself to danger (like the famous "This is better than sex!" called out by someone who just jumped out of a plane with a parachute). Or it can simply be the next-highest taboo-thing after getting bored with regular porn.

So I did a little Googling of Call of the Void. It's clear there's something going on there, but it's not clear to me that we've pinned down the whys of it. I do think it's the closest thing I've come upon, though, to explaining my own predilections. So thanks again.

I highly doubt you could possibly find some kind of universal explanation for this. If this is about you... you'd have to examine your own actions and habits more closely.

 

[Statius]

And this is what gets overlooked or ignored in discussions of fantasy vrs reality. As far as war, having seen it from both sides, I can say with certainty one is nothing like the other, at least for the vast majority.

As a boy I had many WWII vets in my life. I looked up to them, idolized them. I fantasized about going to war and doing all those heroic things that boys and men build in their minds. I had a view of war as just that, that I would go to war, win metals, come home a hero and strut my stuff to the accolades and applause of everyone. It gave me hours of pleasure making all those heroic things happen in my head, or playing at war with my friends. That was my fantasy, until I went off to war. The fantasy and reality of such things aren't even close to the same. And it's a damn hard crash when the fantasy is replaced with reality.

While I can't say from experience it's the same with rape and rape fantasies, to me it feels like it should be. A woman who has been told all her life she needs to be "a good girl" and not give in to those base sexual desires coursing through her, reads an NC story and fantasizes about being taken by a handsome man, or two even, forced to do those things her body is telling her she wants, but society has stomped into her are evil. And in the end in her fantasy it's always pleasurable for her. She can enjoy it because in that fantasy, she is free to do whatever she desires and enjoy it. However, she is still in control even as she fantasizes she isn't. For many it's an end run around those things that society has conditioned her to believe are evil or at a minimum despicable.

The reality of rape is far different. It's always brutal and never enjoyable for the woman even if she climaxes from it. And most times the trauma (like that from war) lasts a lifetime. No woman would ever want that, ever.

All those who don't understand the difference are either not intelligent enough, compassionate enough, or mentally flexible enough to understand the difference between fantasy and reality.




Comshaw

Well put.

 

[Comshaw]

I 100% agree... with most of what you wrote. But since you mentioned the "reality of rape", I feel compelled to add three little points:


The vast majority of rape happens to victims that are passed-out drunk, nonfunctionally drugged-up, being blackmailed, or groomed minors. Only a fraction of rape contains acts of physical violence.

While you may be right about the anatomy of rapes (I have no facts on that aspect) are "brutal" and "violent" the same? While all violence is brutal, not everything that is brutal is violent. The repercussions from a rape like the ones you describe can be brutal.

The problem is that there actually are women who want that. They aren't exactly healthy individuals, but they exist, and they're often used as anecdotal scapegoats by people who like to blame the victims of rape in such discussions.

Granted. I should not have said all. There are few things that are absolute and this isn't one of them.

"Rape victim" should not be a synonym for "Female". As I wrote above, the majority of rape victims are of questionable awareness, to put it mildly. And that happens to men and boys almost as often as to women and girls.

I understand intimately that rape victims can be male. I will also go so far as to say it's much more traumatic for a male than a female because it puts the male in a position to doubt their identity and sexuality.

I doubt though that it happens as often to males as females. That is unless you can provide me with some supporting facts?

If you can, one thing I'm an expert at is the statement, "Well damn! I was wrong!"


Comshaw

 

[OverconfidentSarcasm]

While you may be right about the anatomy of rapes (I have no facts on that aspect) are "brutal" and "violent" the same? While all violence is brutal, not everything that is brutal is violent. The repercussions from a rape like the ones you describe can be brutal.

You are absolutely correct in pointing that out. My problem here is... if I phrase it in a clearer way, I can already see finding myself on the other side of new accusations thrown around. So, let me preface what I'm about to write next with this:

The following is a purely clinical way of looking at a sensitive topic, and please do not misunderstand this as an attempt to justify heinous acts. It is merely an attempt to explain what goes on in some assailants' heads during the act.

Now, as I wrote above, the vast majority of rape victims isn't necessarily aware they are getting raped. That means there is no crying, pleading, or any need on the rapist's part to subdue their victim. The empathetic reflex any functional human should have when forcing themselves on another sentient being is less-likely to kick in if there isn't anything to emphasize about. To put it bluntly, the emotional hurdle to commit such an act is much lower if the victim is, essentially, a living doll, so to speak.

In that state, there is only the assailant enjoying themselves while giving in to their base desires, with no sign or reminder that their victim isn't sharing that sentiment. And in that specific case, it's hard to call it "brutal", as the assailant isn't necessarily acting cruel, harsh, or ruthless. At least not in their actions, as they aren't applying any force, but also not necessarily in their mentality, as they often never even think about how their victim could feel bad afterwards.

 

[FrancesScott]

Stepping into this area again with some trepidation. My own views seem to be at variance to many.

I keep seeing references to a majority of women having ‘rape fantasies’ (if ever there was an oxymoron). I find this incredible based on my girlfriends and women relatives. (yes I do talk openly about sex with a subset of them). Can anyone provide a link to a study supporting this claim published in a reputable, peer-reviewed journal?

If it is survey based, the precise wording of relevant questions would be useful.

 

[AG31]

Stepping into this area again with some trepidation. My own views seem to be at variance to many.

I keep seeing references to a majority of women having ‘rape fantasies’ (if ever there was an oxymoron). I find this incredible based on my girlfriends and women relatives. (yes I do talk openly about sex with a subset of them). Can anyone provide a link to a study supporting this claim published in a reputable, peer-reviewed journal?

If it is survey based, the precise wording of relevant questions would be useful.

So are you doubting that women have rape fantasies?

 

[Britva415]

If it is survey based, the precise wording of relevant questions would be useful.

And a description of the surveyed population.

 

[AG31]

I highly doubt you could possibly find some kind of universal explanation for this. If this is about you... you'd have to examine your own actions and habits more closely.

Yes, it's about me. I thought that was clear, but maybe not. I find this thread (or some posts in it) very insightful and helpful.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

Stepping into this area again with some trepidation. My own views seem to be at variance to many.

I keep seeing references to a majority of women having ‘rape fantasies’ (if ever there was an oxymoron). I find this incredible based on my girlfriends and women relatives. (yes I do talk openly about sex with a subset of them). Can anyone provide a link to a study supporting this claim published in a reputable, peer-reviewed journal?

If it is survey based, the precise wording of relevant questions would be useful.

I don't have peer-reviewed links, but if you look at Nancy Friday's collections of women's sexual fantasies, the first volume (I think early 70s), My Secret Garden, has rape fantasies as the majority - the women interviewed mostly couldn't admit even to themselves that they wanted sex.

Two decades and books later, Women on Top showed a huge shift - the rape fantasy was much rather though the 'I wanted to be Swept Away' one was still very common, along with a substantial bunch of fantasies where the women sought out satisfaction.

I think you'll have a huge difference in fantasies depending on age and background.

 

[big_cane_sugar]

I assume we all know about Atwood's story "Rape Fantasies" but worth a mention just in case.