I tried to bring back the Kink with my wife. She didn't respond so well. What do you think?

[LMWM321]

Maybe she's entering her menopause, or she has passed through it and you did not notice? So she could be feeling challenged or annoyed that you are wanting the old days but she can't enjoy that sort of thing anymore? If she's that age then talk to her after reading around it, rather than asking men on Literotica what they think about people they do not know. Hug her lots and be amorous, rather than horny!

Exactly... Many guys think that as their wife's libido wanes from menopause, the way to bring it back is to turn up the heat with porn-fueled dirty-talk, role-playing, sex-toys, sex positions, etc.. I made that mistake myself. I thought I'd show my wife, who was struggling with low-libido from menopause, a group sex video. Instead of making her horny, she started crying and said,, "All this does is make me feel worse about my body and how I'm feeling about sex these days!"

..So fucking stupid of me. My heart was in the right place, but not my brain.

 

[trucker6142]

Exactly... Many guys think that as their wife's libido wanes from menopause, the way to bring it back is to turn up the heat with porn-fueled role-playing, sex-toys, sex positions, etc.. I made that mistake myself. I thought I'd show my wife, who was struggling with low-libido from menopause, a group sex video. Instead of making her horny, she started crying and said,, "All this does is make me feel worse about how I'm feeling about sex these days!"

..So fucking stupid of me. My heart was in the right place, but not my brain.

Nothi g hurts a husband more, than his wife who tells him she's not interested in sex anymore.
Talk about a huge fucking kick in the balls.

 

[TonyF862]

Nothi g hurts a husband more, than his wife who tells him she's not interested in sex anymore.
Talk about a huge fucking kick in the balls.

- and sadly it’s often the case that it’s not that she’s not interested in sex - it’s that she’s not interested in sex with HIM.

See it all the time. Women/couples who haven’t had sex in months or sometimes years and then you find out she’s cheating. I’ve never understood that.

For some reason I hate to sound chauvinistic, it’s easy to understand why a man would cheat if a woman cuts him off. But it seems rare that a woman is cheating because a man is cut her off.

 

[Britva415]

she started crying and said,, "All this does is make me feel worse about my body and how I'm feeling about sex these days!"

I'd go ahead and apologize for doing something thoughtless and intrusive, but I'd also cry right back and tell her what the repeated, perpetual lack of success at getting her interested does, and how her inability to come up with ideas about what she/we could try, makes ME feel worse about sex these days.

I would never (again) make myself a martyr to a spouse's disinterest in sex. I hid what it was doing to me for years until I changed my mind and stopped doing that, "fOr HeR sAkE." There are two people in this marriage, both with valid needs.

 

[trucker6142]

- and sadly it’s often the case that it’s not that she’s not interested in sex - it’s that she’s not interested in sex with HIM.

See it all the time. Women/couples who haven’t had sex in months or sometimes years and then you find out she’s cheating. I’ve never understood that.

For some reason I hate to sound chauvinistic, it’s easy to understand why a man would cheat if a woman cuts him off. But it seems rare that a woman is cheating because a man is cut her off.

No, she doesn't play around. She's faithful.

 

[LMWM321]

I'd go ahead and apologize for doing something thoughtless and intrusive, but I'd also cry right back and tell her what the repeated, perpetual lack of success at getting her interested does, and how her inability to come up with ideas about what she/we could try, makes ME feel worse about sex these days.

Well said, Britva.. And a very relatable sentiment.

If you don't mind my asking, how does your wife feel about herself? ..Does she have a positive body-image, does she believe she's attractive? I think for a lot of women, their interest in sex is predicated on having a positive self-image. Also, did she ever thoroughly enjoy sex? If so, what was going on when her attitude toward it began to change?

As to your other remark, I agree that after a couple years of pleading with my wife for intimacy and her declining to even discuss it with a therapist or her doctors, etc.. there would definitely come a time when I'd tell her, "I will continue to love and care for you and keep you at the center of my life, but I will NOT go the rest of my life without sex. You've made it clear that you no longer desire it and you're not interested in getting that desire to come back. And that's your decision to make. ..But it matters a great deal to me. Going without sex the rest of my life is as inconceivable to me as never laughing again. ..I can't do it. So, I will seek it out with other women. What rules can we agree upon to minimize how much pain this will cause you?"

Make no mistake, having sex outside of your marriage is breaking a marital vow. ..But so is going years of not having intimacy with your spouse and not caring enough about it to address it.

 

[LookN2Talk]

Make no mistake, having sex outside of your marriage is breaking a marital vow. ..But so is going years of not having intimacy with your spouse and not caring enough about it to address it.

Thumbs UP!!!

I see the last half of your statement in friends marriages more than anything.

What are their options? They've tried about everything... Sad to see marriages falling apart.

Sad that both parties do not see what they are doing and work to fix it in some manner.

There has to be a solution that is agreeable.

 

[Noor]

Taking the pressure off helps. Helping the other person feel better about sensual things in general also can.
Non sexual touch like getting weekly or monthly professional massages can help people start feeling. Great food, soft things next to their skin, clothing, sheets, great French soap, spa days.
Time off from daily life. A walk in the evening, art dates, stupid silly funny things, do non sexual things you both liked to do when you were young and poor. Dance, listen to music..,
Guys don’t get that when women shut down, it’s not just to them and sex, it’s to everything. There is so much pressure to be whatever at work, home, in public, society that it gets to be too much. It’s expectation overload.
I personally hate washing dishes, and ironing. A guy who will do those things well for me, would be a big start.
Whatever you do, don’t push because when you do, Youre just one more expectation, let her come to you.
Also be more active yourself, fix those things you were planning to but hadn’t got around to, try new things, make room for her to join you if she wants, be clean, personally and in the house and car. Picking up after another person who’s over the age of childhood can be exhausting.

 

[WhiteL0tus]

It's definitely worth having a conversation about if she is open to it and I'm so sorry that it's been difficult to feel like you're on the same page. I have a similar issue with my husband but it isn't so much that our kinks aren't currently aligning it's that his drive has lowered due to medication and so we have a lot of conversations about how to still have me be satisfied because I am kind of insatiable.. like all the time, and he knows and loves it but just can't always be helping. He knows that i often masturbate when I am out or at work, etc because it's a need for me and if we hadn't had the conversations about it all it may not be working out as well.

 

[Britva415]

how does your wife feel about herself? ..Does she have a positive body-image, does she believe she's attractive? I think for a lot of women, their interest in sex is predicated on having a positive self-image

For her, it isn't about any of this. Sometimes libido just vanishes. She's fine with her appearance and body.

did she ever thoroughly enjoy sex? If so, what was going on when her attitude toward it began to change?

Only for very short periods. We fucked three times on our wedding night! But she has always had difficulty with pain, with arousal and with libido mis-matches with her partners. Between myself and her, it was one of those classic "we did it all the time at the beginning" things, before it tapered off sharply and forever.

She identifies as asexual now. That was the turning point, for us, the point when we really got real and committed to working together to figure out what the fuck we were supposed to even do.

When a person doesn't care about not having sex, doesn't miss it, doesn't want to fix it, then none of the other psych mumbo-jumbo about self-esteem or whatever matters. One has to just let her have it her way and figure out what one is going to do about it as a result. With or without the partner's cooperation.

after a couple years [...] there would definitely come a time when I'd tell her

I don't know how long it has been or whether this time has already come, but don't wait forever, even if you are already discussing it.

It is not going to "get better" as far as the sex goes. Though the relationship overall definitely can get better when the pair gets real, gets honest and gets practical about what it's going to take to stay together without senseless suffering.

Or not: Nobody owes another person sex, and nobody owes them a relationship. And if both people can't be real, honest and willing to talk, then, what are they even doing together at all.

I came close to leaving (or, ready to get told to leave) a couple of times. It wasn't over sex. It would have been over refusal to communicate. But she came through and did become willing to talk, with zero off-limits topics. There was a lot we didn't agree on, but there was nothing we didn't talk about.

There was no time at which I ever used willingness to end it as any kind of a threat or manipulation. She knew what the stakes were for me, but I didn't ever use that as leverage. Coercion can't work - it would just be trading one person's suffering for the other person's suffering.

having sex outside of your marriage is breaking a marital vow

Meh, who cares, besides the two people involved. If the two of them agree to it, it's not infidelity and it's not like they're doing it in front of all their family and friends. If it's a religious thing, I don't know what to tell you. God save them, I guess, though I have always believed in a God who helps those who help themselves.

I don't want extramarital sex because I don't love my wife, I want it because I do. And she's on board with it too. Anyone who would point a finger at us and judge our vows is a Puritanical inquisitor who can go fuck themselves.

 

[TonyF862]

No, she doesn't play around. She's faithful.

Doesn’t mean she doesn’t have desires or fantasies.

 

[LMWM321]

I don't want extramarital sex because I don't love my wife, I want it because I do. And she's on board with it too. Anyone who would point a finger at us and judge our vows is a Puritanical inquisitor who can go fuck themselves.

Couldn't agree more.

Sorry for what you're going through Britva415. Not that it will help you now, but I truly believe there WILL come a day - maybe 10, 20 , or 30 years from now - when seeking sex outside of a primary relationship isn't so fraught with guilt or shame. In such a world those who seek it will do it honestly, and openly and they will be regarded not as villains but as people who are simply tending to their emotional health, of which sex is a significant component. Just think of how far we've come in our acceptance of those who are gay, or bi. Someday, those who need sex outside of their marriage will be perceived with the same acceptance.

Meanwhile, we need to start raising kids to understand that extra-marital sex, under the right circumstances, is a form of personal fulfillment instead of a marital crime that precipitates the ending of the partnership. Of course, for this to happen, people need to eschew the religion-based notions of sex and marriage.

 

[LMWM321]

There is so much pressure to be whatever at work, home, in public, society that it gets to be too much. It’s expectation overload.

Lot's of wisdom in your entire post @Noor , including the above comment. All well said.

 

[Britva415]

Sorry for what you're going through

Oh, it's MUCH better than it was.

It's not ideal for either of us but it's do-able. And even if it had turned out not to have been do-able, our split almost certainly would have been completely amicable. But it didn't come to that, so

 

[write_or_wrong]

Well said @Bi4Older84

Some times guys think that when their partner's interest in sex begins to wane a bit, it's time to ratchet up the "kink" but in reality, the opposite may be the better plan.

When my wife's interest in sex began to plummet during menopause, I had the brilliant idea of convincing her to watch some porn with me - something she never does. I cued up a video of two couples having group sex. I'll never forget how her eyes welled with tears as she looked at me and said, "why on earth would you think watching four gorgeous, tight-bodied 30-somethings writhing and moaning in ecstasy would do anything but make me feel worse about my changing body and my struggle to enjoy even basic masturbation?" UGH!!! I felt like such an idiot. She wasn't truly angry with me as she knew my intentions were good, but I clearly missed the mark.

If I were you @CuriousEdge I'd take a several week break from ANY kind of kink, and show her you're fine with just basic sex. ..Or better yet, go a step further and limit your next several sessions to just you giving her a sensual massage with NO expectation of sex afterwards. ...Make it your goal to make her feel loved and adored even when sex is off the table.

I believe this is wonderful advice for the OP's situation, and probably many more. Very insightful.

 

[Akpervert]

I believe this is wonderful advice for the OP's situation, and probably many more. Very insightful.

This is probably not bad advice for some. But my wife just takes it as a deeper degree of disinterest from me and it further erodes my hope of resuming even occasional normal sex.
She’s at three times since, I think, March now and it’s not looking better on the horizon.

 

[Noor]

This is probably not bad advice for some. But my wife just takes it as a deeper degree of disinterest from me and it further erodes my hope of resuming even occasional normal sex.
She’s at three times since, I think, March now and it’s not looking better on the horizon.

I don’t understand your last sentence.

 

[Akpervert]

I don’t understand your last sentence.

She’s given me the opportunity to have sex with her/ put out for me - versus just a cold shoulder.

 

[PierceDe]

This is an awesome thread holy cow.

 

[DeMont]

My wife and I have a fairly active sex life, once or twice a week. Nothing crazy sexual beyond missionary, her on top or me from behind. It's second marriage for us both and her first husband was not very sexual. I've gotten her to open up a lot about her fantasies of being with other men (double penetration) and being with a women. She absolutely explodes when I tell her stories while we are having sex. However, she will not talk about it unless in the bed or she's had a few glasses of wine. She travels every few months and recently was in Vegas for a conference. When we were having sex before she left town I told her I had an idea for a super fun sexy game. While she was out of town, I wanted her to look for a man she'd like to fuck or a woman she'd like to be with. Then, when she was back at her hotel pleasure herself thinking about him/or and tell me all about it. She's masterbated on the phone with me before so it's nothing new. She promised me "while we were in bed" that she'd do it and would be fun. She leaves town the next day for a five day conference. She doesn't bring it up again so I remind her of our fun game. She agrees to keep an eye out, then noting. Didn't bring it up again the entire time. When she was in the airport coming home I asked her how come she didn't go through with it. Her response was to blow it off an not address it. Fast forward a few days later and I asked her if we can bring some toys back in the bedroom, like we used to do just after getting married. I used to fuck her with a XL dildo and she pretended she was fucking another guy while I watched her. She literally would squirt every time we used it, but then she lost interest. A few days after she got home from the conference I went to the Hustler Store and picked up some fun toys and a large dildo, though not quite as large as the last one she used. Days went by with out her wanting me to break them out. I told her I'd really like to play with her with the toys. She got angry ,combative and told me I was clearly not happy with her in the bedroom. I explained that was totally not the case and loved her, her body and being with her. I told her I thought it would be super sexy, fun and she knew it was something that I liked. Plus, she used to play with toys. As a side note, when we first got married she would film herself with the dildo and text it to me at work. It would drive me crazy. All that has stopped, except the normal sex, normal positions on her terms. Her response made me feel guilty and a bit dirty. I don't know why she would all of a sudden change and not be the same person in the bed. One of my college buddies told me I should just be happy because my wife is fucking me.

I would really appreciate hearing what y'all t think especially the ladies. Thanks!

@CuriousEdge,
Good morning my dear colleague. If you do get back this way I have a suggestion. One that may, or may not, work.

have you ever heard of "Boudoir Photography"? It's a style of black and white portraiture in which the lady of the house is photographed, in her boudoir, wearing sexy clothing and taken in sensual, not usual out-and-out sexual, positions. There are numerous companies that offer the service, all professional and above board. It may serve to remind her just how attractive and desirable she is instead of simply having you tell her and try and bring back "the good old days".

It's just a thought you understand, it would need to be discussed between you two. Show her some examples on the internet and see if she is interested. It may rekindle her self-assurance (a major part of a woman being comfortable with sex I believe)

Other than that, follow your college buddy's advice Sir.
Deepest respects,
D.

 

[Akpervert]

@CuriousEdge,
Good morning my dear colleague. If you do get back this way I have a suggestion. One that may, or may not, work.

have you ever heard of "Boudoir Photography"? It's a style of black and white portraiture in which the lady of the house is photographed, in her boudoir, wearing sexy clothing and taken in sensual, not usual out-and-out sexual, positions. There are numerous companies that offer the service, all professional and above board. It may serve to remind her just how attractive and desirable she is instead of simply having you tell her and try and bring back "the good old days".

It's just a thought you understand, it would need to be discussed between you two. Show her some examples on the internet and see if she is interested. It may rekindle her self-assurance (a major part of a woman being comfortable with sex I believe)

Other than that, follow your college buddy's advice Sir.
Deepest respects,
D.

D.

Thanks for the message and suggestion. Obviously your luck and your partner are far different than mine.
Your idea is wonderful and I'd LOVE to do that. But - dammit, there's always that "but".

My wife does not own ANY dresses, skirts or anything that might 'show legs.' She owns NO lingerie - all basic bras (most even without any print/pattern on them; likewise with her Haynes Your Way cotton, plain-jane panties. She refuses to own or wear anything that might look sexy - I've bought any number of dressing gowns, slips, negligees or other 'sexy things.' None have been worn; most have been discarded. I don't think she even owns a pair of pantyhose - I haven't seen her in any in over five years.
Her 'sexiest outfit' (and, believe me it is NOT, nor is it intended to be sexy) is cotton panties (no print/pattern, lace, frill, style), with a cotton/flannel 'dressing gown/nighty' over it, usually topped with a fluffy robe. And sometimes that's what she'll wear for a couple of days - showering and changing the items occasionally.

She has NO 'sexy gene' in her.

If there is a chance of 'going to bed to mess around', she'll tell me "I'll meet you upstairs", then go up, strip, and lay in bed nude, with the lights out and the covers pulled up. This lady has NO 'sexy gene' in her body.

I can play with her tits (42LONG - her belly sticks out further than her breasts when she's standing or sitting) and pussy. She will get nice and wet. She might tug on my a bit. She'll probably suggest that I "put on my (cock) ring", then...she'll want me to get on top of her.

At this point in her life, she's morbidly obese. At 5'2" she's topped out at 250# and averages 215-220#. It's reached the point that I am not long enough, or I can't get enough of her belly flab out of the way to fuck her normally. I have to get her on her side and fuck her from the bottom/back.

I'm a horn-dog. I'd LOVE to do whatever it takes to improve, enhance, or advance our sexual relations. She doesn't like talking about it; I can broach the subject about once a month and get a few sentences. She'll almost always promise to change - then always stay the same. Right now, we're at (I'm pretty sure) five times this year. Now, truth be told, she had a sore shoulder, then shoulder surgery in June. But...before and since - nothing. I've reminded her that there are two of us in this and the she's got three holes that could be used. She doesn't have to stand/sit/lay/move/perform - she can lean against the bed and I'll be happier. She can give me a hand job and I'll be happier. She could give me a bit of a blow job and I'd be ecstatic. But it has had NO positive effect.

Oh, and pictures...in general. Not only FORGET IT! But FUCK YOU, NO WAY, FORGET IT!!!

Yep, not the happiest camper here. But I love her and stick around. I'd love for her to tell me to get my jollies off somewhere else, with someone else - just don't fall for them. but that ain't happening either.

 

[DeMont]

D.

Thanks for the message and suggestion. Obviously your luck and your partner are far different than mine.
Your idea is wonderful and I'd LOVE to do that. But - dammit, there's always that "but".

My wife does not own ANY dresses, skirts or anything that might 'show legs.' She owns NO lingerie - all basic bras (most even without any print/pattern on them; likewise with her Haynes Your Way cotton, plain-jane panties. She refuses to own or wear anything that might look sexy - I've bought any number of dressing gowns, slips, negligees or other 'sexy things.' None have been worn; most have been discarded. I don't think she even owns a pair of pantyhose - I haven't seen her in any in over five years.
Her 'sexiest outfit' (and, believe me it is NOT, nor is it intended to be sexy) is cotton panties (no print/pattern, lace, frill, style), with a cotton/flannel 'dressing gown/nighty' over it, usually topped with a fluffy robe. And sometimes that's what she'll wear for a couple of days - showering and changing the items occasionally.

She has NO 'sexy gene' in her.

If there is a chance of 'going to bed to mess around', she'll tell me "I'll meet you upstairs", then go up, strip, and lay in bed nude, with the lights out and the covers pulled up. This lady has NO 'sexy gene' in her body.

I can play with her tits (42LONG - her belly sticks out further than her breasts when she's standing or sitting) and pussy. She will get nice and wet. She might tug on my a bit. She'll probably suggest that I "put on my (cock) ring", then...she'll want me to get on top of her.

At this point in her life, she's morbidly obese. At 5'2" she's topped out at 250# and averages 215-220#. It's reached the point that I am not long enough, or I can't get enough of her belly flab out of the way to fuck her normally. I have to get her on her side and fuck her from the bottom/back.

I'm a horn-dog. I'd LOVE to do whatever it takes to improve, enhance, or advance our sexual relations. She doesn't like talking about it; I can broach the subject about once a month and get a few sentences. She'll almost always promise to change - then always stay the same. Right now, we're at (I'm pretty sure) five times this year. Now, truth be told, she had a sore shoulder, then shoulder surgery in June. But...before and since - nothing. I've reminded her that there are two of us in this and the she's got three holes that could be used. She doesn't have to stand/sit/lay/move/perform - she can lean against the bed and I'll be happier. She can give me a hand job and I'll be happier. She could give me a bit of a blow job and I'd be ecstatic. But it has had NO positive effect.

Oh, and pictures...in general. Not only FORGET IT! But FUCK YOU, NO WAY, FORGET IT!!!

Yep, not the happiest camper here. But I love her and stick around. I'd love for her to tell me to get my jollies off somewhere else, with someone else - just don't fall for them. but that ain't happening either.

@Akpervert,
Good evening my dear colleague. Granted, it does sound as though the cards are stacked against you. It is, however, just possible that there may be a way to "save the situation" and, as you say, "But I love her and stick around"... that speaks to a genuine commitment. let her know that at every opportunity and, if I may suggest, take out an exercise regimen, perhaps just walking at first and then perhaps something more like a gym membership. Encourage her to bring back the "used to be'. Perhaps that will re-instil her desire to 'want to be'. The very fact that she is still willing to 'meet you upstairs' is a sign for hope and optimism, perhaps the suggestion that you don a 'cock ring' indicates she wants it to last.

Obviously I don't know the entire dynamic of your situation but I can see signs of hope. Don't give in Sir and, if you are going to give in, do so wholeheartedly... however, I suspect that is unlike you. In reality, you and I both know that a man does not need permission to "go elsewhere". I have loved, and lost, two long-ish term partners that way and that's not really the way it works, in general, I have found.

Whatever the case is, whatever happens and whatever transpires at the end of your deliberations I wish you all the luck in the world.
Deepest respects,
D.

 

[Akpervert]

@Akpervert,
Good evening my dear colleague. Granted, it does sound as though the cards are stacked against you. It is, however, just possible that there may be a way to "save the situation" and, as you say, "But I love her and stick around"... that speaks to a genuine commitment. let her know that at every opportunity and, if I may suggest, take out an exercise regimen, perhaps just walking at first and then perhaps something more like a gym membership. Encourage her to bring back the "used to be'. Perhaps that will re-instil her desire to 'want to be'. The very fact that she is still willing to 'meet you upstairs' is a sign for hope and optimism, perhaps the suggestion that you don a 'cock ring' indicates she wants it to last.

Obviously I don't know the entire dynamic of your situation but I can see signs of hope. Don't give in Sir and, if you are going to give in, do so wholeheartedly... however, I suspect that is unlike you. In reality, you and I both know that a man does not need permission to "go elsewhere". I have loved, and lost, two long-ish term partners that way and that's not really the way it works, in general, I have found.

Whatever the case is, whatever happens and whatever transpires at the end of your deliberations I wish you all the luck in the world.
Deepest respects,
D.

D.

Thanks for the encouragement. I highly doubt that things will EVER get as better as I'd hope - even once a week would be a few-hundred-percent improvement.
I'm a little bit lucky in that I've got an occasional friend who enjoys what I do and how I do it. And we've done it more in the last two weeks since my wife has been gone, than the wife did it with me in the last two MONTHS.
D.