Historical period piece writing, any advice?

[MillieDynamite]

Deadwood, watched, loved it, rewatched, loved it more, rinsed and repeated every other year. Oh, it's time to watch Deadwood again!

As others have said, research is key. But bear in mind, most of your readers will have learned more about "history" from popular culture than from more academic sources. For example, by the 1920's most American referred to "cars", not "automobiles." But automobile persisted in movie dialogue much longer and if you set your story in the '20s, "car" may seem like the anachronism to many people.

Small errors of fact are easily overlooked, but bad vocabulary choices can knock your reader right out of the story. There are tons of online glossaries for slang of different eras and cultures. When I wrote a story set in the American West in the 1880s, I searched for colloquial alternatives for even common words. When I found one that sounded "period" but was easily understandable, I replaced the more common term. (And I watched a lot of Deadwood)

A tip for anyone writing 20th century period pieces: My WIP is about a Hollywood actress whose career stretched from the 1920 to the 1970s. That's an enormous amount of research needed, with tremendous social change and the changes in language that go with it. I formatted the narrative as being her memoirs, written around 1980. So, while she recounts tales of the silent movie era, the depression, World WarII, the sixties, etc., it is her subjective memory of those times, told in a sort of patois of period vocabulary and more modern speech.For the most part, I render dialogue close to as it would have actually been spoken, but the narration is generally in her modern voice. So far, this seems like an effective way of writing a period piece without getting too wrapped around the axle on vocabulary or syntax.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

I think the thing to remember is that while clothes, means of transportation, customs, slang, etc are all good and are ‘capturable’ via research, the essential qualities of H. sapiens don’t vary much. The fundamental nature of boy-meets-girl was essentially the same a hundred years ago as it is now. (Or will be in a hundred years from now, for that matter.) Don’t let the basics get lost amidst what is in the end really window-dressing and stage-setting.

BTW, nice to have you aboard. Good questions!

 

[Strixaluco]

Well... The chemistry and biology were the same. But culture wasn't. And so you can have stories where it's a reluctant arrange marriage - which turns out to be very much an enjoyable one, etc. Settings that you aren't believable in today's western countries.

Or if so inclined, stories were husband indeed takes his right.

 

[DeMont]

Good err... morning, darn, I missed the entire evening...

I want to write a historical period piece for Literotica. I searched and searched for prior references here but couldn't find any. It is going to be in the style of Edgar Allan Poe but, of course, I am not that most excellent gentleman. I believe, as much as the imagery and world building description is important that since the bulk of the story takes place within a Victorian era mansion then I need to embrace the language forms of the time in order to make it believable and give it the right "impact", if that makes sense.

What traps, pitfalls and/or problems can you see arising?
I would much rather get this nailed down with respect to the "audience" I am writing for than take off like a rocket sled on rails and have it fall flat on its face. This is a tale I have wanted to write for a long time now but could never really find the right venue for.

Any advice welcomed and appreciated.
Deepest respects,
D.

My dear colleagues, friends, I address this to ALL who have stopped by and offered advice.
I have several collected works of Poe's. He is, far and away, my favourite author. I deeply appreciate all the suggestions you have given and I will take ALL under advisement. I believe this tale is going to require a synopsis (assessment) prior to beginning. I have the opening paragraph which sets the "situation" up. Now the hard work starts. It's going to be a while before this one arrives here I think.

Bless your l'il cotton socks... (did they have socks in 1899? - good question)
Deepest respects,
D.

 

[TheRedChamber]

There's a relatively small audience for period porn.

Not sure how true this is. I'm definitely in that audience whatever its size and judging from the responses a lot of other AHers are too.

 

[Bramblethorn]

View attachment 2552682

So you'd like to bring this discussion to a...full stop?

 

[Bamagan]

Not sure how true this is. I'm definitely in that audience whatever its size and judging from the responses a lot of other AHers are too.

That's fair. It's the impression I've received more than an objective fact. My own few personal examples are among my least-viewed, and they aren't set all that long ago, but there may well be confounding factors with anyone's personal experiences. Categories that are already low-view might amplify the impression that no one is interested.

I'm not really a fan of period pieces as a reader, which may well be coloring my lenses also. Or at least, not so much a fan of it in erotica. I like reading character studies, but I'm not into reading an extra 5k words or whatever providing context for why the author needed to set the story where and when it is so that the character acts or thinks in a way that would be implausible in a contemporary setting. From the ones I have read here, I also get the impression that they often fall into the buckets of either slapdash 'research' or such meticulous attention to detail that it becomes a bit of a burden for me to get very far. I believe someone upthread likened period pieces to stories set in other cultures, and I think they're right. It can be easy to miss the forest for the trees if it's outside one's lived experience, or reconstructed in the case of the past.

 

[Bramblethorn]

More for older settings than for Poe, but: if using archaic language (thees and thous etc.), please research the grammar. It's not as straightforward as simply replacing every instance of "you" with "thou", and for at least some readers getting it wrong is worse than just using modern English.

Any good dictionary will provide information about when words came into use, and Google Ngrams is useful both for this and for checking phrases. (Be aware that it's not 100% accurate; if you see a word in common use from 1950 and one solitary use from 1800, it's quite possible the 1800 use is mis-dated or an OCR error or some such.)

 

[onehitwanda]

So you'd like to bring this discussion to a...full stop?

Interrobang and colon.

 

[8letters]

This thread has made me think of the movie "Nanny McPhee". I've not watched it, but I've watched trailers and read up about it. It strikes me as if someone decided to create a mash up of "Mary Poppins" and "Sound of Music", but without the songs. "Mary Poppins" is set in 1910, "Sound of Music" is set in 1938, and "Nanny McPhee" is set in the mid-1800's England. I've read a lot of novels set in Victorian England, and attitudes towards children, nannies, women, marriage, etc. seem much different than what "Nanny McPhee" seems to present. In mid-1800's England, class is incredibly important, and the most important part of a nanny's job was to teach the children how to act as a member of their class. People took quite some time to hire a nanny and would get references for candidates. Victorian England was very much "Spare the rod, spoil the child". If kids acted like they did in the movie, they'd get thrashed.

 

[DeMont]

My dear colleagues, friends, I address this to ALL who have stopped by and offered advice.
I have several collected works of Poe's. He is, far and away, my favourite author. I deeply appreciate all the suggestions you have given and I will take ALL under advisement. I believe this tale is going to require a synopsis (assessment) prior to beginning. I have the opening paragraph which sets the "situation" up. Now the hard work starts. It's going to be a while before this one arrives here I think.

Bless your l'il cotton socks... (did they have socks in 1899? - good question)
Deepest respects,
D.

I am, my Lit colleagues, following this thread and I intend to keep doing so... I am going to pick your brains until your ears bleed...!!!
Most respectfully, naturally...

 

[OralAllOver]

2 PDFs that may interest

https://fau.digital.flvc.org/islandora/object/fau:9933

https://www.jstor.org/stable/30029902

 

[Tio_Narratore]

It could work. Ten thousand years ago, arguing that this new "fire" thing is causing the glaciers to melt and sea levels to rise, and what will happen to animal migration if Doggerland disappears?

And a clear illustration of the dangers of inadequate research. Some nit-picking Anthropologist is likely to point out that "this 'new 'fire' thing" ten thousand years ago had already been around for at least five hundred thousand years!

 

[Kumquatqueen]

This thread has made me think of the movie "Nanny McPhee". I've not watched it, but I've watched trailers and read up about it. It strikes me as if someone decided to create a mash up of "Mary Poppins" and "Sound of Music", but without the songs. "Mary Poppins" is set in 1910, "Sound of Music" is set in 1938, and "Nanny McPhee" is set in the mid-1800's England. I've read a lot of novels set in Victorian England, and attitudes towards children, nannies, women, marriage, etc. seem much different than what "Nanny McPhee" seems to present. In mid-1800's England, class is incredibly important, and the most important part of a nanny's job was to teach the children how to act as a member of their class. People took quite some time to hire a nanny and would get references for candidates. Victorian England was very much "Spare the rod, spoil the child". If kids acted like they did in the movie, they'd get thrashed.

I'm not familiar with that film, but was going to mention rigid class structures up until the 1960s at least in the UK (and still there in the background, even now) - something many authors ignore. And if you're going to write about the aristocracy, do a pile more research for the time period (Georgette Heyer and Austen will mostly get you through the Regency, Dorothy Sayers for the 1920s). In particular, don't make your MMC of marriageable age a Duke.

There's four to six non-royal dukes around at any given moment, and mostly they inherit when their fathers die, so they don't get the title until middle age. Any who wasn't married would have been the most desirable chap in the country the minute he (as a Marquess, or an Earl if his grandfather was still alive) hit his majority, and have had a suitable wife forced upon him pronto - perhaps especially if he was prone to dallying with anyone unsuitable.

Underestimating the labour of laundry and the wealth it took to have multiple sets of clothing beyond everyday, rough work wear, and Sunday best, is another one.

 

[onehitwanda]

There's four to six non-royal dukes around at any given moment, and mostly they inherit when their fathers die, so they don't get the title until middle age. Any who wasn't married would have been the most desirable chap in the country the minute he (as a Marquess, or an Earl if his grandfather was still alive) hit his majority, and have had a suitable wife forced upon him pronto - perhaps especially if he was prone to dallying with anyone unsuitable.

I'm having flashbacks to the thread where the author was insistent that he understood UK nobility enough to write a story involving "Lord Bearington". I wish I'd favourited it, it was screamingly funny and sad, in equal measure.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

I'm having flashbacks to the thread where the author was insistent that he understood UK nobility enough to write a story involving "Lord Bearington". I wish I'd favourited it, it was screamingly funny and sad, in equal measure.

I remember trying to explain that 'bear' just isn't a first syllable for English surnames and that everyone would assume it was a parody of Paddington Bear and a furry fic...

If you need a non-boring surname for a British character, get up Maps and pick a small town from the area their family are from. If it's an aristo, double-check it isn't being used by anyone in the current House of Lords...

 

[StillStunned]

I'll add to the "don't do this" list. Don't use a historical setting and then write what's essentially an American soap opera.

I started reading a published novel once, set in Bronze Age Greece. About 1500BCE, if I'm not mistaken. The main character wandered down to the docks and went on board a ship belonging to her father, the king, and said, "Take me to Atlantis." Ten minutes later they were on their way.

Then there are loads of costume dramas where the Crown Prince of France and his fiancee will go for a ride from Paris to the coast, just to have a picnic. Or where kings and dukes drop by to visit each other without a massive entourage, just to have a private chat, before heading back from Florence to Milan.

The whole thing gives me the impression that the writers have no understanding of unmotorised travel, or logistics, or anything from more than fifty years ago.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

I remember trying to explain that 'bear' just isn't a first syllable for English surnames and that everyone would assume it was a parody of Paddington Bear and a furry fic...

If you need a non-boring surname for a British character,

Which all reminds me of my regular rant that the UK isn't just a Disney Land of Quaint, and is in fact an actual real and functioning country (OK, functioning is debatable but it's doing better than some I could mention!)

If you want to set a story here, chat with a Brit (hi!) before making your whole plot center round switching majors at Oxbridge or driving a RV through Cornwall or not having a pub in walking distance in London...

 

[onehitwanda]

I remember trying to explain that 'bear' just isn't a first syllable for English surnames and that everyone would assume it was a parody of Paddington Bear and a furry fic...

If you need a non-boring surname for a British character, get up Maps and pick a small town from the area their family are from. If it's an aristo, double-check it isn't being used by anyone in the current House of Lords...

Lord Penistone being my go-to example.

 

[onehitwanda]

or driving a RV through Cornwall

Not quite Cornwall but I did this in Scotland once.

Once.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

Lord Penistone being my go-to example.

Perfect!
Probably a friend of Lady Fingringhoe and Lord Cockermouth, with a butler called Mr Twatt.

They don't speak to the Shittertons...

 

[onehitwanda]

Perfect!
Probably a friend of Lady Fingringhoe and Lord Cockermouth, with a butler called Mr Twatt.

They don't speak to the Shittertons...

But are best friends with Tatty aka Lady Snugbottom of Upperdown Bennet.

 

[HordHolm]

I'm not familiar with that film, but was going to mention rigid class structures up until the 1960s at least in the UK (and still there in the background, even now) - something many authors ignore. And if you're going to write about the aristocracy, do a pile more research for the time period (Georgette Heyer and Austen will mostly get you through the Regency, Dorothy Sayers for the 1920s). In particular, don't make your MMC of marriageable age a Duke.

There's four to six non-royal dukes around at any given moment, and mostly they inherit when their fathers die, so they don't get the title until middle age. Any who wasn't married would have been the most desirable chap in the country the minute he (as a Marquess, or an Earl if his grandfather was still alive) hit his majority, and have had a suitable wife forced upon him pronto - perhaps especially if he was prone to dallying with anyone unsuitable.

Underestimating the labour of laundry and the wealth it took to have multiple sets of clothing beyond everyday, rough work wear, and Sunday best, is another one.

These are all very good points. What I would add, is that there was a blind eye sometimes turned to transgressing the class structure if the person doing the transgressing was a man, usually, (though we're as dealing with fantasy here a little female transgression should be forgiven). If the people were same sex class transgression would be more common, one suspects - lots of unmarried upper-class women had 'companions' of respectable, but lesser middle-class status, whilst events such as the Cleveland Street Scandal revealed upper-class men using working class young men for sex.

But this comes with a big 'however'... 'happy ever after' is going to be unattainable except in the most fortunate and unlikely circumstances, and the class structure will likely be maintained throughout any intimate interactions, whilst if there are any 'accidents', then the poor housemaid/waitress/lady of the night will be left to deal with the consequences.

Thus, the duke's heir, Viscount Snotnose, will be banging the housemaids at the Big House in Middleton-on-the-Wold, but if the girls get pregnant, they're out. As Viscount Snotnose gets older and the housemaids are now chosen in part for their bad looks he might well have a suitable bride effectively forced on him, but then he might turn his attention to his children's governess if his wife isn't careful. But again, discretion is key, and the reality is he is more likely to be visiting an expensive house of ill-repute or waiting at the stage door to the music hall (and getting regularly treated for the clap) than promising the unattainable to Miss Proudface the governess in the event he finds himself able to contract a second marriage.

Once we get past World War 1 things loosen up, but only by a small degree - the dalliances might be more likely to have a blind eye turned to them but the marriages still aren't going to happen. And now Viscount Snotnose is more likely to turn to young women from modelling agencies and the like (or supplied through his doctor - see Profumo), given the relative lack of servants available to exploit. Or he will simply use sex workers from the get go.

 

[Tio_Narratore]

On British characters' names, let's not forget Dickens' "Mr. Squeers" of "Dotheboys Hall." (Or was that Mrs. Queers of Do the boys Hall?)

 

[MelissaBaby]

Underestimating the labour of laundry and the wealth it took to have multiple sets of clothing beyond everyday, rough work wear, and Sunday best, is another one.

The level of filthiness in even the most developed countries prior to the 20th century is almost unimaginable. We were watching the HBO series The Gilded Age recently, and my husband remarked that all the rooms seemed to be decorated with dark colored wallpaper. I pointed out to him that there was soot everywhere. The dark colors hid it, and wallpaper is easier to wipe clean then painted wood walls.

An interesting fact I learned in a Sociology class was that in most cities in the eastern USA, the east side was traditionally the poor part of town and the richer you were, the further to the west side you were likely to live. For example, in Maine, where I grew up, there are still many cities that were established along rivers, because lumber was the main industry and the logs would be floated downstream to the mills. Those mills were always located on the east side of the river, and the workers lived nearby. The upperclass lived on the west side of the river.

The reason for this? Think of a 19th century industrial city. Horses everywhere. Horse shit everywhere. Open sewers.Most homes without indoor plumbing. People heating their homes and cooking their meals with coal or wood. Even in town, many families kept chicken or pigs, even a milk cow here and there. And, of course, the smoke and stench from the factories and mills and slaughterhouses.

In most of North America, the prevailing winds blow from west to east. So, the rich people built their stately homes as far on the west side, where the air was fresh and clean, while the poor were stuck downwind in the stink.