Cuckoldry and humiliation: a thread for women as well as men

[policywank]

One of the things that I find interesting about the dynamics of cuckolding and humiliation is that it is almost always discussed from the perspective of male sexual power. If the cuckold feels humiliated it is in relation to what another man is doing to or for his wife, usually with the implication that the other man is superior. But the underlying premise is still that it is a man who is in control and a man who is providing sexual pleasure to the woman.

But when we step back and look at sex more broadly it is fairly clear that women are in charge. Even when we "let" the men play their preferred role it is quite clear that we are the gatekeepers and we decide who gets to play. The real power dynamic is therefore often between husband and wife. The wife easily attracts sexual partners while the husband is a cuckold in part because he cannot. The other man isn't the one with the power. She is. The unicorn in this situation is the hotwife, by comparison "would be" cuckolds and studs are abundant.

This is how it works between my husband and I. It isn't quite that he cannot find other women. He can. But it is nothing like my ability to find other men. And that isn't just a matter of numbers, but also a matter of the terms of engagement. Whereas many other men are more than happy to go along with whatever I desire, the other women he found (when we had an open relationship) were more constrained and conditional. He came to the conclusion that he quite literally prefers to play the role of cuckold (and lover when the other men leave) for me than to spend time seeking other women. So for us the power play is between him and I - "look what I can have with ease while the best you can do is watch and we both know you love to watch you dirty little pervert."

 

[liqueur]

One of the things that I find interesting about the dynamics of cuckolding and humiliation is that it is almost always discussed from the perspective of male sexual power
[...]
for us the power play is between him and I

This is exactly how I see it, and why it's so erotic to me. The stud is nothing but a tool for the wife’s pleasure— and for whatever pleasure she may experience in humiliating her husband. The whole thing is an expression of her power, and the upending of traditional power dynamics.

Those studs who make it so all about them (“lookitmee!”) and dominate both the wife and husband— certainly that has its place if the wife is into that. But it does nothing for me, personally, because there's no power reversal.

And those men who state (often proudly) that they feel no humiliation at all, they just like to see their wife have fun— in my language, that's not a cuckold dynamic at all, it's a hotwife dynamic.

Often, when I talk about this, certain men get offended, accuse me of gatekeeping, ask what business it is of mine to try to dictate how the language is used. But I'm not trying to dictate anything— I'm just trying to remind people of what the words meant traditionally, and why the term “hotwife” was coined in the first place, as something distinct from cuckolding. Language is so much more useful (and interesting) if we don't let the internet constantly blur the meanings of words.

 

[policywank]

This is exactly how I see it, and why it's so erotic to me. The stud is nothing but a tool for the wife’s pleasure— and for whatever pleasure she may experience in humiliating her husband. The whole thing is an expression of her power, and the upending of traditional power dynamics.

Those studs who make it so all about them (“lookitmee!”) and dominate both the wife and husband— certainly that has its place if the wife is into that. But it does nothing for me, personally, because there's no power reversal.

And those men who state (often proudly) that they feel no humiliation at all, they just like to see their wife have fun— in my language, that's not a cuckold dynamic at all, it's a housewife dynamic.

Often, when I talk about this, certain men get offended, accuse me of gatekeeping, ask what business it is of mine to try to dictate how the language is used. But I'm not trying to dictate anything— I'm just trying to remind people of what the words meant traditionally, and why the term “hotwife” was coined in the first place, as something distinct from cuckolding. Language is so much more useful (and interesting) if we don't let the internet constantly blur the meanings of words.

I do feel as though hotwife and cuckold aren't exactly the flip side of the same coin. I think of a hotwife as any woman who dates men other than her husband with his knowledge while the husband remains exclusive. How the husband feels about the situation and how she interacts with him are beside the point. Humiliation isn't necessary for her to be a hotwife.

The role of the husband of a hotwife can vary quite a lot. Some want to be humiliated by the other man. Some want to be humiliated by their wife. Some don't want to be humiliated at all. Meanwhile many want to be submissive in one way or another yet feel no humiliation from being submissive. For some a term like stag might be more appropriate. Others refer to the term wittol but I think that is just a subset of cuckold. All that said, while it is not for me to say I tend to always think of the husband of a hotwife as being a cuckold (though I will happily refer to him otherwise if he prefers).

It is true that when we think of the historical use of the word cuckold we often associate it with humiliation. But I think that is at least in part because in those times it was simply assumed that the husband would feel humiliated. But I think of humiliation as something you feel, not something others can impose upon you. Kind of like being embarrassed. If a cuckold doesn't feel humiliated the way society thinks he should feel, is he less of a cuckold? We can look at examples like the husband in Anna Karenina or the real life experience of royalty/nobility who had to marry other royalty/nobility but openly kept lovers (i.e Catherine the Great, Lady Mountbatton). In those cases the husbands knew of their wife's infidelity and accepted it as an imperfect work around in a time when divorce wasn't viable. To my knowledge everyone kept things as quiet as possible and those men went on with their lives otherwise. They didn't demonstrate any evidence of feeling humiliated yet were nonetheless referred to as cuckolds.

To argue the opposite way Merriam-Webster refers to a cuckold as being the husband of an unfaithful wife, while unfaithful is defined as someone who does not abide by her marriage vows. Assuming she never vowed to be exclusive or the couple mutually agreed to change that later then her fucking other men on its own does not make him a cuckold because that is not a violation of their marriage commitment. In that case the modern usage of the term has evolved away from unfaithfulness in a world of consensual non-monogamy and it would seem that at best is not resolved. The more reputable scientific or journalistic sources seem to use the modern usage of the term simply refer to a man who gets pleasure from his wife being with other men whereas bloggers and lifestyle enthusiasts tend to inject further elements such as humiliation.

I think of it as coming back to the idea of how the husband feels and the fact that he cannot be compelled to be humiliated. Whether or not he is a cuckold seems to me to be more a function of a fact pattern than how he feels about it. But at least as it relates to the modern slang application of the word it would seem that some judgment is still being applied.

Back to the topic of power transfer and humiliation I would be curious to know just how the majority of such couples engage in this alternative lifestyle. So much of what we see online portrays a submissive woman and her cuckold being dominated by a third-party male in circumstances where it is the cuckold husband who is clearly at greatest risk of suffering psychological or emotional harm. Regardless of one's preferences I simply cannot imagine ceding that kind of power to a third-party without a major long-term build up of trust. To me it would be like a dominant party in an intimate Dom/Sub dynamic just handing off their Sub to some unknown 'wanna be' Dom to do with as they please. That would be completely violating the trusting relationship they have with their Sub. The license I have to dominate my husband was established between us and is strictly non-transferable.

Now he can choose along with me to give a relatively unknown third-party the 'right' to dominate him (or us). But that seems to be to be very risky. And as the partner least likely to suffer emotional or psychological distress I would be very worried about my partner even if he did appear to be up for it.

 

[amx99]

being humiliated by her . has always been the kink and the thing that I like the most

 

[SPARTAN047]

https://www.redgifs.com/watch/thesedarkseagreenkitten#rel=user:hotwifealice;order=new

 

[EliseElise]

I’ve had one partner that I tried this with and it started just out of us talking and exploring the idea of each of us being with someone else. I enjoyed the idea of watching him with someone else, but he loved the idea of me with someone else much more, and it grew over time and we’d fantasize about it more and more.

Eventually there started to be more humiliation elements, like fantasizing more about guys bigger than him. But it definitely wasn’t like that to start, and it wasn’t like he had that kink beforehand according to him. It was just something that we both grew into and found out we enjoyed with each other. So I guess for us it was more about the general process of pushing the boundaries and generating tension through that rather than some deep need for humiliation or something like that.

 

[MerWilh]

I’ve had one partner that I tried this with and it started just out of us talking and exploring the idea of each of us being with someone else. I enjoyed the idea of watching him with someone else, but he loved the idea of me with someone else much more, and it grew over time and we’d fantasize about it more and more.

Eventually there started to be more humiliation elements, like fantasizing more about guys bigger than him. But it definitely wasn’t like that to start, and it wasn’t like he had that kink beforehand according to him. It was just something that we both grew into and found out we enjoyed with each other. So I guess for us it was more about the general process of pushing the boundaries and generating tension through that rather than some deep need for humiliation or something like that.

That sounds like a healthy relationship.

 

[OralAllOver]

Actual humiliation only happens when you pretend to be other than you are, when the mask tears

Me: I like sucking dick, and, frankly, can be a lil slutty about it. So calling me a "cocksucking slut" is fun, not hurtful

 

[SexyAruna]

Something about a man eating my creamy pussy after a stronger, larger one has cum deep inside me always gets me excited!

 

[switchersm]

Something about a man eating my creamy pussy after a stronger, larger one has cum deep inside me always gets me excited!

That's my caged cuck hubby's business every weekend.

 

[switchersm]

I do feel as though hotwife and cuckold aren't exactly the flip side of the same coin. I think of a hotwife as any woman who dates men other than her husband with his knowledge while the husband remains exclusive. How the husband feels about the situation and how she interacts with him are beside the point. Humiliation isn't necessary for her to be a hotwife.

The role of the husband of a hotwife can vary quite a lot. Some want to be humiliated by the other man. Some want to be humiliated by their wife. Some don't want to be humiliated at all. Meanwhile many want to be submissive in one way or another yet feel no humiliation from being submissive. For some a term like stag might be more appropriate. Others refer to the term wittol but I think that is just a subset of cuckold. All that said, while it is not for me to say I tend to always think of the husband of a hotwife as being a cuckold (though I will happily refer to him otherwise if he prefers).

It is true that when we think of the historical use of the word cuckold we often associate it with humiliation. But I think that is at least in part because in those times it was simply assumed that the husband would feel humiliated. But I think of humiliation as something you feel, not something others can impose upon you. Kind of like being embarrassed. If a cuckold doesn't feel humiliated the way society thinks he should feel, is he less of a cuckold? We can look at examples like the husband in Anna Karenina or the real life experience of royalty/nobility who had to marry other royalty/nobility but openly kept lovers (i.e Catherine the Great, Lady Mountbatton). In those cases the husbands knew of their wife's infidelity and accepted it as an imperfect work around in a time when divorce wasn't viable. To my knowledge everyone kept things as quiet as possible and those men went on with their lives otherwise. They didn't demonstrate any evidence of feeling humiliated yet were nonetheless referred to as cuckolds.

To argue the opposite way Merriam-Webster refers to a cuckold as being the husband of an unfaithful wife, while unfaithful is defined as someone who does not abide by her marriage vows. Assuming she never vowed to be exclusive or the couple mutually agreed to change that later then her fucking other men on its own does not make him a cuckold because that is not a violation of their marriage commitment. In that case the modern usage of the term has evolved away from unfaithfulness in a world of consensual non-monogamy and it would seem that at best is not resolved. The more reputable scientific or journalistic sources seem to use the modern usage of the term simply refer to a man who gets pleasure from his wife being with other men whereas bloggers and lifestyle enthusiasts tend to inject further elements such as humiliation.

I think of it as coming back to the idea of how the husband feels and the fact that he cannot be compelled to be humiliated. Whether or not he is a cuckold seems to me to be more a function of a fact pattern than how he feels about it. But at least as it relates to the modern slang application of the word it would seem that some judgment is still being applied.

Back to the topic of power transfer and humiliation I would be curious to know just how the majority of such couples engage in this alternative lifestyle. So much of what we see online portrays a submissive woman and her cuckold being dominated by a third-party male in circumstances where it is the cuckold husband who is clearly at greatest risk of suffering psychological or emotional harm. Regardless of one's preferences I simply cannot imagine ceding that kind of power to a third-party without a major long-term build up of trust. To me it would be like a dominant party in an intimate Dom/Sub dynamic just handing off their Sub to some unknown 'wanna be' Dom to do with as they please. That would be completely violating the trusting relationship they have with their Sub. The license I have to dominate my husband was established between us and is strictly non-transferable.

Now he can choose along with me to give a relatively unknown third-party the 'right' to dominate us. But that seems to be to be very risky. And as the partner least likely to suffer emotional or psychological distress I would be very worried about my partner even if he did appear to be up for it.

Now he can choose along with me to give a relatively unknown third-party the 'right' to dominate us

I would never allow a lover to dominate me or my husband.
My husband isn't able to fuck me to orgasms. But my lover does it very well. My hubby wants me to have these experience and to be satisfied that way. So he agrees to me fuck with another man. Hubby is sexual submissive and loves to watch and serve. I'm domme to him in ways we have talked and in consent. That's between hubby and me. My lover has no say on my husband and has to respect him. I'm on eye level with my lover. I don't need domination from him, only his magnificent cock, that makes me so happy .
That's how our cuckolding functions.

 

[NakedCanadian]

Something about a man eating my creamy pussy after a stronger, larger one has cum deep inside me always gets me excited!

That sounds like a perfect evening or weekend, would love to do that

 

[lordfarquat]

I am someone with an interest in hotwifing but not for humiliating others. If anything, I would like to be the one degraded. It’s so hot if both men act like they own me & that I’m there to share for their enjoyment.

To what extent have you found someone who has been able to own and ravage you?

 

[NakedCanadian]

I am someone with an interest in hotwifing but not for humiliating others. If anything, I would like to be the one degraded. It’s so hot if both men act like they own me & that I’m there to share for their enjoyment.

I agree with you. The humiliation is a separate kink altogether, and not by necessity a part of the hotwifing or vixen lifestyle. It may or may not be, which is why it's always better to discuss beforehand so there is no confusion.

 

[lordfarquat]

I have yet to find someone to own me and then pass me around like a party favor.

@spoiledwetbrat
That's a shame. Sounds like you need to find the right party.

 

[Ed_Sumner]

I want to give this thread a bump, so I'm going to restate my OP:

1. Women: is the potential humiliation factor an important part of what makes cuckoldry attractive to you? (Guys, please don't jump in and answer for the women. That's not attractive.)
2. Guys (and queerfolk like me): does the cuckold experience cause you to feel humiliated? If so, does that add to the experience for you?

And then there's cheating, which has been described as nonconsensual cuckoldry. Except that it's clear from these threads that a lot of men are turned on when they find out. And it also seems that at least some women want their partner to find out. So:

3. Cheaters and cheatees: does the potential humiliation factor intensify this experience for you?​

As a cheatee, the humiliation of finding out about my wife's long-term cheating and the fact that the object of her lust was a tall, good-looking, muscular single stud with a huge cock, and that she cheated mainly for sexual satisfaction, and that she became addicted to it (and him), has brought me the most intense, sublime sexual pleasure and gallons of cum spilled.

 

[liqueur]

Actual humiliation only happens when you pretend to be other than you are, when the mask tears

Not entirely so...

Me: I like sucking dick, and, frankly, can be a lil slutty about it. So calling me a "cocksucking slut" is fun, not hurtful

I think what I'm going to say here is at least partially true within most forms of BDSM. But I can only speak for myself, in this situation. Psychiatrist/theorist Stan Grof used the term ”double bookkeeping” to describe situations in which one part of the mind is deeply involved in a situation, experiencing the full range of emotions that that situation invokes, while another part of the mind is sitting up on a platform like a tennis referee, detached, observing the action, not involved in any way except perhaps to make sure there is no foul.

Grof might be dismayed to hear me use his term in this context, but it applies here as well as in any other situation. In situations like you describe (cocksucking) or like i used as my starting point (cuckolding), the observer part of my mind can watch the cuckolding scenario unfold, or the name-calling happen, with pleasure, amusement, and a good sense of fun— as you do when you're called a cocksucking slut. And simultaneously, the guy on the ground is wholly involved in the embarrassment, the humiliation, of that situation, *and* the masochistic pleasure they deliver. It would be difficult for either part to derive much pleasure from the situation if they didn't share that balance of power.

As a practical example: in the situation you describe: if a person calls me be a cocksucker, and their intention is to be hurtful and derogatory, the observer part of my mind takes charge, and experiences amusement, and maybe thinks “if only he knew!”— or depending on the situation, might say aloud “Yes? And your point is...?” —— But, if the person doing the name-calling is involved in a scene with me, whether it's pre-arranged or spontaneous, then the response is very different, although no less valid: a slow burning sense of simultaneous embarrassment and arousal.

 

[17_spicyfun]

Not entirely so...

I think what I'm going to say here is at least partially true within most forms of BDSM. But I can only speak for myself, in this situation. Psychiatrist/theorist Stan Grof used the term ”double bookkeeping” to describe situations in which one part of the mind is deeply involved in a situation, experiencing the full range of emotions that that situation invokes, while another part of the mind is sitting up on a platform like a tennis referee, detached, observing the action, not involved in any way except perhaps to make sure there is no foul.

Grof might be dismayed to hear me use his term in this context, but it applies here as well as in any other situation. In situations like you describe (cocksucking) or like i used as my starting point (cuckolding), the observer part of my mind can watch the cuckolding scenario unfold, or the name-calling happen, with pleasure, amusement, and a good sense of fun— as you do when you're called a cocksucking slut. And simultaneously, the guy on the ground is wholly involved in the embarrassment, the humiliation, of that situation, *and* the masochistic pleasure they deliver. It would be difficult for either part to drive much pleasure from the situation if they didn't share that balance of power.

As a practical example: in the situation you describe: if a person calls me be a cocksucker, and their intention is to be hurtful and derogatory, the observer part of my mind takes charge, and experiences amusement, and maybe thinks “if only he knew!”— or depending on the situation, might say aloud “Yes? And your point is...?” —— But, if the person doing the name-calling is involved in a scene with me, whether it's pre-arranged or spontaneous, then the response is very different, although no less valid: a slow burning sense of simultaneous embarrassment and arousal.

Eloquent, interesting analysis - love it, thanks for the post

 

[RoanMtn]

But I think of humiliation as something you feel, not something others can impose upon you. Kind of like being embarrassed.

I wouldn't feel any humiliation at all being a sissy cuckold.

 

[SPARTAN047]

https://www.redgifs.com/watch/soreelaboratequeenslandheeler#rel=user:klops123;order=new

 

[KinkStevens]

Wrong. What you accuse me of is exactly what you are doing.
Humiliation involves the lowering of esteem and status. Pretending or pretending not to be humiliated does not make it a choice, within or outside the fetish world.

I’m genuinely amused by your peacock like confidence in asserting your point. I hope someone else triggers you to share more.

 

[lily_wall_]

Okay y'all be my therapist...

My fantasies go wild and dark and I've opened up about it in a few in other threads. One of them is cucking my husband. And cuck him hard. I want to humiliate him, degrade him, deny him pussy and when he gets desperate, I want to give him a choice of tasting me on my luver's cock. I want him to take that choice, hesitatingly at first, then be okay with, then eventually crave my pussy juice on another cock. I want him to feel weird about the idea of tasting me directly, it must always be from another cock. When my luver is away, and my husband wants a taste of me, I want him to go try find a man to fuck me. I want him to ask his friends, and I want his friends to laugh at him as they take turns in me. I want our neighbors to know, and the whole street, and people at grocery checkout, that my husband is a cuck. I want others to question maybe he really just likes cock, maybe he's bi, or gay, sissy. Yes and no. He's not any of them, but if a cock is covered in my juices, then he's all of them... My fantasy wanders on and on, and gets more and more humiliating for my husband.

All that will remain a fantasy. My wonderful husband is not into it and I will never want him to do something just for me. It has to be for both of us. But now that you have an idea of what I like, here's a real life situation that happened a few years ago.

Me and two of my girlfriends were having brunch and the conversation led to one of them telling us about the new guy she hooked up with. She kept comparing him to her boyfriend. The more she kept insulting her boyfriend, the more irritated I got. I wanted to slap the grin off her face. Sitting there, I was disgusted at her. On my walk back, I kept thinking about it, and as I calmed down, I was confused as to why I was feeling that way. Cucking a man is clearly my fetish, I should have enjoyed it. I have slept with men who understood this side of me and we would talk about my husband in a way that drives me crazy (her boyfriend being one of those men, she doesn't know). And still when someone else does this, I fucking hate it.

Amateur therapist of lit, explain that please lol

 

[Eyelevel]

Okay y'all be my therapist...

My fantasies go wild and dark and I've opened up about it in a few in other threads. One of them is cucking my husband. And cuck him hard. I want to humiliate him, degrade him, deny him pussy and when he gets desperate, I want to give him a choice of tasting me on my luver's cock. I want him to take that choice, hesitatingly at first, then be okay with, then eventually crave my pussy juice on another cock. I want him to feel weird about the idea of tasting me directly, it must always be from another cock. When my luver is away, and my husband wants a taste of me, I want him to go try find a man to fuck me. I want him to ask his friends, and I want his friends to laugh at him as they take turns in me. I want our neighbors to know, and the whole street, and people at grocery checkout, that my husband is a cuck. I want others to question maybe he really just likes cock, maybe he's bi, or gay, sissy. Yes and no. He's not any of them, but if a cock is covered in my juices, then he's all of them... My fantasy wanders on and on, and gets more and more humiliating for my husband.

All that will remain a fantasy. My wonderful husband is not into it and I will never want him to do something just for me. It has to be for both of us. But now that you have an idea of what I like, here's a real life situation that happened a few years ago.

Me and two of my girlfriends were having brunch and the conversation led to one of them telling us about the new guy she hooked up with. She kept comparing him to her boyfriend. The more she kept insulting her boyfriend, the more irritated I got. I wanted to slap the grin off her face. Sitting there, I was disgusted at her. On my walk back, I kept thinking about it, and as I calmed down, I was confused as to why I was feeling that way. Cucking a man is clearly my fetish, I should have enjoyed it. I have slept with men who understood this side of me and we would talk about my husband in a way that drives me crazy (her boyfriend being one of those men, she doesn't know). And still when someone else does this, I fucking hate it.

Amateur therapist of lit, explain that please lol

I dont know if I am qualified to be your therapist since I want to explore your fantasy and not move you towards a cure.

 

[liqueur]

My fantasies go wild and dark... One of them is cucking my husband. And cuck him hard. I want to humiliate him, degrade him, deny him pussy and when he gets desperate, I want to give him a choice of tasting me on my luver's cock. I want him to take that choice, hesitatingly at first, then be okay with, then eventually crave my pussy juice on another cock.

Will you marry me?

Me and two of my girlfriends were having brunch and the conversation led to one of them telling us about the new guy she hooked up with. She kept comparing him to her boyfriend. The more she kept insulting her boyfriend, the more irritated I got..... I was confused as to why I was feeling that way. Cucking a man is clearly my fetish, I should have enjoyed it. I have slept with men who understood this side of me and we would talk about my husband in a way that drives me crazy (her boyfriend being one of those men, she doesn't know). And still when someone else does this, I fucking hate it.

Amateur therapist of lit, explain that please lol

I think maybe it's less complicated than you think. All of us (to varying degrees) have multifaceted minds. I'm guessing there's a portion of your mind — a more conventional and socialized part — let's call that part Miss Morals — that is uncomfortable with these things you — the darker, earthier you —have done, and even more so, with the things you want to do. Talking with your friend, seeing your own apettites externalized, sort of confronts Miss Morals with those things, with uncomfortable results. All of us project sometimes. In this case, it looks to me as if Miss Morals is projecting the anger she feels toward Darker Earthier You outward at your friend. Doing that makes it at least somewhat more comfortable.

 

[lily_wall_]

I dont know if I am qualified to be your therapist since I want to explore your fantasy and not move you towards a cure.

Basically a therapist. You help me explore without curing so you could tell me to schedule more sessions