How do you think of AH? A community, or a place to talk only abut authorish topics?

[Kelliezgirl]

It's very rare that a true writing discussion takes hold. People avoid talking seriously about writing, maybe because they are reluctant to part with their tricks of the trade, I don't know.
Well, except when they can link a story of theirs. Then, many are shameless in advertising their work. So, summa summarum, threads with fruitful discussion about writing are quite rare.

I don't think it's because anyone is afraid of giving away their secrets, but rather that many of the authors here aren't terribly analytical about how and why they write.

Look at the Pantsers. What's their method? Sit at a keyboard and see what happens.
How do you really explore the craft from that perspective?

This isn't a criticism of them, just a recognition that for many people here their process doesn't lend itself well to a discussion about techniques that will be useful to other people.

Just because someone can do something, or even do it well, doesn't mean they can coach/teach it to someone else.

I've run several marathons, if you asked me to help you improve as a runner I'd be useless.
My "technique" was start running til I was out of breath then walk fast.
Keep doing that 4 or 5 times a week and pretty soon you can run a long ways, but an actual coach would probably be more helpful.

 

[ElectricBlue]

This isn't a criticism of them, just a recognition that for many people here their process doesn't lend itself well to a discussion about techniques that will be useful to other people.

Just because someone can do something, or even do it well, doesn't mean they can coach/teach it to someone else.

Very true. All we can really do is say to new writers, there is no one way to write, there's no right or wrong, there is no "correct" way; you have to find what kind of writer you are, by yourself.

I think it is helpful if folk say, "I write this way, and here's what you get, here's how I do it," because someone new might say, "You've just described me. That's fucking brilliant, knowing that. And knowing that it's okay to write that way. I didn't know that way even existed."

Your example of pantsers is a good one. I suspect we're rarer beasts compared to most writers here, the plotters and planners, but our method is no less valid than the next person's method. The problem that you get, though, is that most of the "writers' advice" you see on the blogs, the tutorials and so on, does start from the principle of plans and outlines and character sheets etc, as do the writing software packages that you get.

For me, Word is ideal, it's all I need. A blank page and a keyboard, and off I go!

 

[Voboy]

I don't think it's because anyone is afraid of giving away their secrets, but rather that many of the authors here aren't terribly analytical about how and why they write.

Look at the Pantsers. What's their method? Sit at a keyboard and see what happens.
How do you really explore the craft from that perspective?

This isn't a criticism of them, just a recognition that for many people here their process doesn't lend itself well to a discussion about techniques that will be useful to other people.

Just because someone can do something, or even do it well, doesn't mean they can coach/teach it to someone else.

I've run several marathons, if you asked me to help you improve as a runner I'd be useless.
My "technique" was start running til I was out of breath then walk fast.
Keep doing that 4 or 5 times a week and pretty soon you can run a long ways, but an actual coach would probably be more helpful.

This.

 

[NotWise]

I don't think it's because anyone is afraid of giving away their secrets, but rather that many of the authors here aren't terribly analytical about how and why they write.

Look at the Pantsers. What's their method? Sit at a keyboard and see what happens.
How do you really explore the craft from that perspective?

This isn't a criticism of them, just a recognition that for many people here their process doesn't lend itself well to a discussion about techniques that will be useful to other people.

Just because someone can do something, or even do it well, doesn't mean they can coach/teach it to someone else.

I've run several marathons, if you asked me to help you improve as a runner I'd be useless.
My "technique" was start running til I was out of breath then walk fast.
Keep doing that 4 or 5 times a week and pretty soon you can run a long ways, but an actual coach would probably be more helpful.

I wouldn't pick on pantsers. There are a lot of technique discussions they can contribute to. It isn't like it all boils down to planning.

There are still writing discussions cropping up: how to do this or that, what words to use, story vs stroke, comparing writing tools, and so on. I used to love those threads. At some point I realized that I was giving advice on writing in my own style and reading advice from others on how to write in their own style. That's usually what writing advice boils down to, because there are no hard rules in writing fiction.

Threads on writing should usually come down to "do it and see if it works," because other writers never know what you can make work. "Just write," is another bit of good advice, and one that doesn't warrant a lot of discussion.

 

[Voboy]

The Support Threads for the various contests and challenges are most definitely community-esque, and they often include discussions of writerly topics.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

I wouldn't pick on pantsers. There are a lot of technique discussions they can contribute to. It isn't like it all boils down to planning.

There are still writing discussions cropping up: how to do this or that, what words to use, story vs stroke, comparing writing tools, and so on. I used to love those threads. At some point I realized that I was giving advice on writing in my own style and reading advice from others on how to write in their own style. That's usually what writing advice boils down to, because there are no hard rules in writing fiction.

Threads on writing should usually come down to "do it and see if it works," because other writers never know what you can make work. "Just write," is another bit of good advice, and one that doesn't warrant a lot of discussion.

I'm not picking on pantsers, for the most part I am one.

 

[Cagivagurl]

So if there are responses to the second kind of post, wouldn't that qualify is addressing your first interest?

I guess it depends on your views.
The annoying posts are the ones full of self interest and ego.
OK, I get it, the Uni bombers hurt, but. If somebody doesn't like something posted, so be it. You cannot please everybody.
In my mind, if you're writing for scores, you're in it for the wrong reasons...
It's the bruised egos that irritate me, as if they're shocked somebody disliked their story... Get over it, and move on. (My philosophy)

I like the threads that discuss helpful tips. I dislike some elements of what is discussed in here. Most have probably noticed my triggers... The place can be quite toxic, a lot of inflated egos.
Each of us have valid opinions, and shouldn't be afraid to voice them.
I do not mean to stifle others opinions, but If I feel strongly, I always offer my voice.

Male dominated platforms can be testosterone fuelled pissing contests...
It is a matter of realising that you are only one voice among many.

Cagivagurl

 

[Voyeurkenneth]

I think of AH as a community, in the sense that I know no other erotica writers in real life. And not that I truly “know” anyone here, but just to know a place like this exists is enough for me to feel like I’m a part of some community. That the ”adult” or pornographic things I’m writing isn’t just weird little me.

And yes, I do enjoy hearing all the varied perspectives on authorly topics. It feels more human than if I were to learn it from an article or book.

 

[AwkwardMD]

Stop taking complicated subjects and breaking them down into a false binary

 

[SimonDoom]

Stop taking complicated subjects and breaking them down into a false binary

Is it a complicated subject, or is it a simple subject?

Drink, and discuss.

 

[AwkwardMD]

Is it a complicated subject, or is it a simple subject?

Drink, and discuss.

I'll do one of those things.

 

[ronde]

How do you see it now?

What I see every day are things that don't relate to good writing but are just general conversation or a poster's attempt at self-gratification or to solicit praise from other authors. I don't mean this as a criticism of the OP's or posters, but most of the threads have little to nothing to do with helping new or experienced authors improve and would fit better in the "General" forum. As far as authors already knowing "the way that works for them", anybody can improve at any stage of the game.

I began writing after reading some stories and then reading the comments. Then I started looking at the "Author's Hangout" and discovered there were a lot of really good writers there who were more than willing to share their methods. I can't say that of today's forum.

The first five threads as I write this are:

Chain Story - Matchmaking for the Shy - This is a continuous story with the authors limited to six people. Nothing here to help a newby get started writing or an experienced writer get better.

Overused words - The OP and most contributors speaking about words they overuse. One comment gives some advice to writers about how to find and avoid overused words.

What to write next? - This thread has some good content that any author should at least read.

Is men crying still a no-no? - The OP wants to know if a man crying can fit into a story. A few meaningful comments with a lot of ,"I never do" and "He can under the right circumstances".

How do you think of AH? A community, or a place to talk only abut authorish topics? - This is the thread you started and I can understand why you put it here. A discussion about what the "Author's Hangout" is for does belong here, but I don't see how discussing how the forum monitors do their job belongs here, nor do the "How can I violate the site rules and still have my story published" threads and threads complaining that a story was rejected for AI content when the OP usually admits they used some form of AI to proofread their story.

These continue to pop up in a thread every so often. My thought is if you have an issue with a forum monitor or the site publishing guidelines, plead your case directly to Laurel. She's been running this site for at least 25 years and she's figured out what works, so I doubt she's going to change, but I've always found her to be a resonable person.

Her site rules are established based on the simple fact that it's a world wide site and there are topics that are legal in some countries but illegal in others. In the EU as we speak, site owners can be found personally liable for displaying copyright protected content on their sites. It's doubtful that the EU is going to arrest a US citizen for violation of an EU law, but the possibility is still there, as is the possibility that some country could block the site. That would decrease the income the site generates. The story side of Literotica and the forum we enjoy are not only free, but also ad free, except nothing is ever free. These are free because of the income generated by other parts of the site.

If you don't get the response you want from Laural, there are other sites to write for. They won't have the same readership, and there will be pop-up ads all over the place, but maybe that's worth it if you get to publish whatever you feel like writing.

If I go further down the list, there are always several "games" or challenges that are probably enjoyable for some, but in my opinion would be better done in the General Board. Often during the week days, those threads occupy the top spots for days. It's usually only threads started or commented on during a weekend that apply to what to write, how to write it, and how to get readers to like what you write.

 

[TheWritingGroup]

The story side of Literotica and the forum we enjoy are not only free, but also ad free, except nothing is ever free.

The story side of Literotica is in no way ad-free. What do you mean? I picked a random story from the Stories page and got this:

 

[BobbyBrandt]

If you don't want to see those never ending threads, just put the thread starter on Ignore and they disappear.

Doesn't that put the person who started the thread on ignore?

You wouldn't see any of their posts if that is the case, not just the particular thread that they started.

 

[Candy_Kane54]

I come here to relax from the stress of writing. If there are threads about the art of writing, I consider it a treat and occasionally learn something from it, but I'm not here to discuss writing.

 

[MelissaBaby]

Doesn't that put the person who started the thread on ignore?

You wouldn't see any of their posts if that is the case, not just the particular thread that they started.

Yes. But a great many of those threads were started by people who don’t even post here anymore, so what’s the loss?

 

[SimonDoom]

While many threads at least touch on something related to erotica or writing, most are fun-oriented and end up being swarmed with memes and puns, even those that seem more serious at first glance. It's very rare that a true writing discussion takes hold. People avoid talking seriously about writing, maybe because they are reluctant to part with their tricks of the trade, I don't know.
Well, except when they can link a story of theirs. Then, many are shameless in advertising their work. So, summa summarum, threads with fruitful discussion about writing are quite rare.

Of the 40 non-permanent story threads listed on page 1 of the Author's Hangout story list, about 9 are, by my count, related more or less to the "art of writing." That seems, to me, like a pretty decent share of the threads. If you are genuinely interested in learning how your fellow Literotica authors "do it," then there is, if you want to use it, a veritable treasure trove of information and ideas about how to write erotic stories. I'm a fairly motivated and active seeker of information here, and I don't mind separating the wheat from the chaff, so I've found the Author's Hangout to be rather useful for me. If you prefer a more passive approach to learning, it's not the ideal place, because there's a lot of the "here's how I do it, but I don't care how others do it" attitude. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it's not the ideal attitude for creating a useful learning environment, and it's an environment that forces passive learners to do more work than they want to.

I think Literotica, including its forums, is, to a great extent, what you make of it. That's why I like it. I can overlook the weaknesses and inconsistencies and the useless noise and acts of rudeness because none of them interfere in any way with my being able to achieve what I want to achieve here, which is to publish stories and have them read by as many people who enjoy them as possible. The rest is mostly noise.

You can find a community in the Author's Hangout if you want to. Some may not want to. That's OK.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

If you don't want to see those never ending threads, just put the thread starter on Ignore and they disappear.

That is probably valid advice in general, but not for me. I've never put anyone on ignore here or anywhere else that I can remember, and I don't think I ever will. I don't mind seeing opposing, even malicious posts. I like having a choice to ignore them by pure will.

Also, I don't want to be misunderstood here about all those threads. They seem to be a fun place for many AH people, so I really don't mind them, even if they aren't my thing. Their existence doesn't annoy me at all, except maybe when a thread that starts with some serious topic gets derailed into a meme thread.
I just wish there were some more serious and fruitful ones too, although, judging by Simon's post, we don't all agree on what a serious and fruitful topic about writing is. Where he sees nine, I see zero. Well, maybe a few in the grey zone, but that's it.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

I don't think it's because anyone is afraid of giving away their secrets, but rather that many of the authors here aren't terribly analytical about how and why they write.

Look at the Pantsers. What's their method? Sit at a keyboard and see what happens.
How do you really explore the craft from that perspective?

This isn't a criticism of them, just a recognition that for many people here their process doesn't lend itself well to a discussion about techniques that will be useful to other people.

Just because someone can do something, or even do it well, doesn't mean they can coach/teach it to someone else.

I've run several marathons, if you asked me to help you improve as a runner I'd be useless.
My "technique" was start running til I was out of breath then walk fast.
Keep doing that 4 or 5 times a week and pretty soon you can run a long ways, but an actual coach would probably be more helpful.

I don't agree with that.
No one here is purely a pantser or purely a plotter. We are all a combination of those two, in varying amounts. And from what I've seen here, most experienced authors can articulate their process very well when they want to. They just don't want to do it, with some rare exceptions.

 

[SimonDoom]

That is probably valid advice in general, but not for me. I've never put anyone on ignore here or anywhere else that I can remember, and I don't think I ever will. I don't mind seeing opposing, even malicious posts. I like having a choice to ignore them by pure will.

Also, I don't want to be misunderstood here about all those threads. They seem to be a fun place for many AH people, so I really don't mind them, even if they aren't my thing. Their existence doesn't annoy me at all, except maybe when a thread that starts with some serious topic gets derailed into a meme thread.
I just wish there were some more serious and fruitful ones too, although, judging by Simon's post, we don't all agree on what a serious and fruitful topic about writing is. Where he sees nine, I see zero. Well, maybe a few in the grey zone, but that's it.

This reminds me of the parable about the two brothers, one an optimist and one a pessimist. Christmas is coming, and the father wants to "equalize" their experiences, so he makes sure that the pessimist son receives every gift he has asked for, while he fills the optimist son's gift boxes full of manure. The kids wake up Christmas morning. The pessimist opens his presents and glumly says, "They're just going to break in a day or two." The optimist opens his boxes full of shit and joyfully cries out, "Where's the pony?"

 

[yowser]

This discussion reminds me of my union, of which I am a member and for which I have a small but important role.

The union drives me nuts sometimes and does stupid things, but it is a group with a mission and does a lot of good most of the time. Lots of times folks complain - why doesn't the union do this? why don't they do that better? Sometimes the complaints are valid, but you know what? It is a group, and lots of times there is nothing to prevent you (the complainer) from taking action and doing something about that which is causing your complaint. As a group it only works because of its membership.

Here, with a few (sometimes ridiculous and hysterical) exceptions, the thread horizon is wide open for all manner of discussion. Nothing prevents someone from posing an interesting question or starting a topic.

Like the union, there's always going to be old timers saying it was way better in the days of yore, but like the union, there's always going to be somebody new who can do some kindling or rearrange the furniture, start up a new feature.

So we're a writers union, with all the bliss and warts that come with that: touchy folks with hyper-egos and those itchy to start a fight, but also thoughtful souls who speak up when it makes sense to do so, and call out plain idiocy. The writing tent is a big one. I take what I can get out of the mess here that reflects human activity everywhere else.

This place reminds me of my union.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

This reminds me of the parable about the two brothers, one an optimist and one a pessimist. Christmas is coming, and the father wants to "equalize" their experiences, so he makes sure that the pessimist son receives every gift he has asked for, while he fills the optimist son's gift boxes full of manure. The kids wake up Christmas morning. The pessimist opens his presents and glumly says, "They're just going to break in a day or two." The optimist opens his boxes full of shit and joyfully cries out, "Where's the pony?"

Well, if you give me your address, I'll make sure to send you a Christmas gift you'd like.

 

[SimonDoom]

Well, if you give me your address, I'll make sure to send you a Christmas gift you'd like.

That's very kind of you. But I'm at an age where I've comfortably settled into the perspective that I don't want to spend any more of my life dealing with animal shit. No cats, no dogs, and for G--'s sake no horses.

 

[SimonDoom]

And how do you plan on living out your favorite verse, Ezekiel 23:20?

Hmmm. I'm going to have to find another place for that. That pesky "no bestiality rule" and all that.

 

[AG31]

Just because someone can do something, or even do it well, doesn't mean they can coach/teach it to someone else.

Too true!

Male dominated platforms can be testosterone fuelled pissing contests...

I suspect there are more males here than females, but I've not bumped into many that seemed overloaded with testosterone. They seem pretty rational and supportive for the most part.

Stop taking complicated subjects and breaking them down into a false binary

You said this exact same thing about one of my other OPs. In that case I pointed out that I had clearly declared my interests to be on a spectrum. In this case, I stated it as a binary. Of course people are free to land in the middle. But you cause me to wonder whether your interest is in avoiding binary questions, or whether you're just out to get me? (Joke...sort of).

if you have an issue with a forum monitor or the site publishing guidelines, plead your case directly to Laurel. She's been running this site for at least 25 years and she's figured out what works, so I doubt she's going to change, but I've always found her to be a resonable person.

This is an attitude I just don't understand. Just because someone has sole discretion on how an organization operates doesn't mean, in my opinion, that the members of that organization shouldn't make their feelings known. Sometimes they might raise persuasive arguments. Sometimes the critical mass may bubble up and that someone may just cave to the pressure.

I've never put anyone on ignore here or anywhere else that I can remember, and I don't think I ever will. I don't mind seeing opposing, even malicious posts.

Me either. It's all interesting.

No one here is purely a pantser or purely a plotter. We are all a combination of those two, in varying amounts.

Don't forget recorders.