What details of an author's style annoy you?

[Bramblethorn]

Oooo, just thought of another! When the writer tries to write pseudo-archaic English. Thees and thous, wouldst and prithee, and worst of all "an" (or "and" - yes, I'm looking at you, David Eddings) instead of "if".

Unless the story is set in a very poorly programmed historical simulation, there's no excuse for it.

I can deal with accurate period English (to the limits of my ability to understand it!) or even with "hybrid" style that's largely modern English with a few archaisms thrown in for flavour. But what irks me greatly is authors who use "thee"/etc. without understanding how those work grammatically.

"Thee has offended me" is the sort of thing that has me shouting NO NO NO NO NO at the author. Do it right or don't do it at all.

What would valid archaic English sound like?

I don't know that it's possible to give a useful answer here. There have been many historical versions of English and describing the features of any one of them would probably take more space than the post limit here allows. (If any of us has the linguistic chops to do that, which I don't.)

But if history/fantasy authors just understood things like noun forms (thee/thou/thine/etc.) and made an effort not to use glaringly anachronistic expressions, that'd be a big help.

 

[OverconfidentSarcasm]

But...but,....

Just last week, I read a story about [Snip: The same rules apply to the forums, and that was far too graphic. While I understand it was to make a point, apply the same dry standard that's allowed in stories to forum posts. AH Mod]

Both stories vanished within six hours of me hitting the report button (after the story I just described had been on the site for close to a decade). Just goes to show that not every story posted is actually being read before publication. But I appreciate the quick action that follows when someone points it out.

 

[Comshaw]

I have a long series involving siblings who were separated at a young age and both severally abused. One suffered from mental illness due to it, the other an addict. 39 chapters spanning 20 years of their life and twisted taboo love/lust affair and I never let up. Even when she was clean for several years and he'd gotten on medication, their trauma never completely left them.

Was told by many they dropped the series for being too 'stark'

I recall one person sending me feedback saying "you're beating a dead horse, sooner or later you get beyond it at some point, especially if you turn your life around"

I'll be 57 next month and still deal with night terrors on occasions-usually during times of high stress in life-I wake up and swear I can smell beer and puke.

But hey, who knows better? People like myself or Mr Anon fuckwit?

Beyond my own, I've had a lot of close people around me who suffered from PTSD. My sister's father-in-law was captured on Corregidor by the Japanese and spent 3 years in a Japanese prisoner-of-war camp. When he was captured he was 220 lbs. When he was released he weighed 90 lbs. To the day he died, he had to fight the urge to hoard food. He kept a diary and told me that it got to the point that the deaths were so numerous he quit keeping track of names and only entered the number of those who died.

Another friend was a gunner for a 5" gun on the battle ship USS Alabama. Even in his 70's he would occasionally wake screaming from the nightmare of a kamikaze headed for him.

Another person I know was severely abused in her teens. It caused a split in her personality that she is still dealing with in her 70's. So yeah I get it.

People who have led a relatively safe secure life have no idea how severe trauma affects a person. It screws up your head and your perspective to the point it's difficult to readjust to a "normal" life.

Comshaw

 

[YmaOHyd]

But if history/fantasy authors just understood things like noun forms (thee/thou/thine/etc.) and made an effort not to use glaringly anachronistic expressions, that'd be a big help.

Gonna plump again for Jacqueline Carey's Kushiel's Legacy series, as I always do, which does a very good job sounding like historical fantasy while also reserving thee/thine for characters who sound archaic to the people they're talking to.

A pretty sight; it would have surprised me, if my capacity for surprise wasn't flattened. We entered the reception hall, and found a neat company of servants turned out to await us, ordinary men and women -- islefolk, I guessed them -- clad in simple linens.

"Thy shipmates are well-tended, thy horses stabled," Gildas said to us, and the stilted formality of his courtesies seemed sincere. "No harm will come to thee in this place. By thy leave, we offer the Master's hospitality. Warm baths, dry clothes, wine and supper."

"And the rest of my folk?" Drustan asked when I had translated for him. "Does this ... this priest stand surety for their safety?"

The narration is just fancy enough to sound like the character's from Old France, and the thees and the thys are put in the mouth of someone who's speaking an old dialect not heard for hundreds of years and making an effort to be formal to the first new people he's seen in his entire life. And, critically, it doesn't go so far in the direction of periodicity that it's hard to read and comprehend.

 

[SinclairGroupLLP]

I'll be 57 next month and still deal with night terrors on occasions-usually during times of high stress in life-I wake up and swear I can smell beer and puke.

But hey, who knows better? People like myself or Mr Anon fuckwit?

This is something that I always scratch my head at. Sure, a lot of what we write is fiction, but I think many of us, if not all, try to write things we are familiar with, or that we’ve got experience with, at least a little. It’s funny to see commenters be like “this isn’t realistic” when you’re literally fictionalizing something you saw or did or had first hand experience with.

 

[XerXesXu]

The narration is just fancy enough to sound like the character's from Old France, and the thees and the thys are put in the mouth of someone who's speaking an old dialect not heard for hundreds of years and making an effort to be formal to the first new people he's seen in his entire life. And, critically, it doesn't go so far in the direction of periodicity that it's hard to read and comprehend.

Nevertheless, incorrect. Addressing we/us it would be ye/you/yours. It sounds archaic, but it's fantasy archaic.

 

[YmaOHyd]

Nevertheless, incorrect. Addressing we/us it would be ye/you/yours. It sounds archaic, but it's fantasy archaic.

It's slightly less incorrect than it appears in the quoted portion. While it's addressed as 'to us,' the us is the narrator translating for a singular leader, whose shipmates and horses they are. Not an ideal example, to be sure.

 

[SimonDoom]

I'm tolerant of a lot of different writing styles, and of authors bending the "rules" to achieve a desired artistic effect. What bugs me is carelessness in writing: inconsistent and sloppy punctuation, unknowing tense shifting, unknowing POV shifting, the failure to abide by the most basic guidelines for writing dialogue, things like that. One can learn the basics in a fairly short period of time, and if the author hasn't done at least a LITTLE homework in this area, then what it tells me is the author doesn't respect their readers, and that's a turn off.

My plausibility bar is fairly easy to jump over. But even I have limits. If the author treats their characters like they are plastic dolls to put through the paces for erotic effect, with no attention to motivation, then the author loses me. It doesn't take a lot to persuade me, but I need a little something.

I don't mind some sentence fragments, but I don't like to see too many.

Mindfulness, that's the key. I can put up with a lot of deviations in style if I see some evidence that the author has thought about what they're doing. Often, that's not the case.

 

[TheWritingGroup]

Oooo, just thought of another! When the writer tries to write pseudo-archaic English.

How do you feel about period English, such as Billie used here? Or Cockney rhyming slang, ditto?

Still Picture

-Annie

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Overly dramatic prose.

This is an excerpt from one of my roleplay partners. It's his opening paragraph. I'm not really outing them since this was 6 years ago on another site.

The scene was northern California. The old boy had never been quite fond of larger cities like this... too many people, and too much traffic. There was just simply too much commotion to really focus, to let one's mind be at ease and think.
Unfortunately for him, however, most of his business took place in areas much like the one he was in now.

San Francisco.

This is sooo overwritten, it totally distracts from the narrative. He refers to his main character as 'the old boy', that is just cringe. Then he uses the horribly pretentious technique of summing up the previous paragraph with a single line paragraph (and yes, usually this line is a fragment) for emphatic dramatic effect. What the writer is telling me here is, my actual story and characters are boring, so I'm spicing it up - or it says shouts, I'm really fucking snobby about my craft, "I'm so cool!"

The rest if it was chock full of jive like this.

So far, things have been panning out fairly well for the rambling son. Just after two days of scouting for a new gig, and trying out several all night bars and clubs, William had come across a highly attractive nightclub on the far side of the city called 'The Wine House'. It was certainly a rougher part of the city, to say the least. However, the club was immaculate and obviously quite popular. It was there he'd come across a band that rocked so hard, so heavy, no one in the crowd would let them leave after their set was finished. 'Temptress', was their name. Even the follow up acts had left the building out of intimidation, so he was told. To put it simply, the boy had never seen or heard so many encores. Their audience just ate it up, as did he. As for the band? The ghoulishly attractive foursome themselves were enough eye candy alone to convince him to offer his services as the lead guitar player. It was obvious he'd just stumbled upon the band that he'd need to join in order to break into the San Francisco scene. Unfortunately, William could see that position was already secured by one very talented lass.

His recollections of the band are completely over the top. Other bands left the building (which never happens) "... or so he was told." (eyeroll) And a very talented "lass." A bit much.

William had collected his remaining earnings from his now former bandmates, and was now sitting on a bench along a busy downtown San Francisco street, waiting for the Greyhound. The sun was setting low over the horizon, behind the tall skyscrapers in the distance. A few clouds dotted the pink and orange sky to paint a beautiful picture in an otherwise hideous place. A red trolley loaded with tourists and flashing cameras glided slowly along the track, making a continuous loud squeak and almost blinding him. Hundreds of people milled about from all around, causing him to become increasingly more and more anxious for that rusty blue bus's arrival. His only other company was his worn out Less Paul guitar, seated upright beside him. What once was a shiny, eye-catching piece of musical equipment, had long since faded into an almost smokey-grey color, which was also peeling away in some spots. William didn't mind. This guitar had been the closest thing to a friend he'd had since...well, his entire life, really. It had lived as long, and seen just as many miles as he had.

I'm all for descriptions but the sky and the tourists really aren't necessary here (since I know all the stuff that I'm leaving out). They're just an excuse for juxtaposition and to make his character too cool for school. Again, "... that rusty blue bus," ... you know that bus, that wonderful thing, you know the one (eyeroll) ... overwritten.

I could paste another couple dozen bits. It goes on and on.

Hate this. Leave the drama in your plot and characters.

 

[SinclairGroupLLP]

I was about to say "Oh, PSG, I don't think it's that bad..." and then I saw he said "Less Paul guitar" and now I'm with you - burn this shit to the ground

 

[YmaOHyd]

Maybe it's because he's less Paul, more Ringo.

 

[Trionyx]

"Thee has offended me" is the sort of thing that has me shouting NO NO NO NO NO at the author. Do it right or don't do it at all.

Just between he and I, thou hast offended me.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Maybe it's because he's less Paul, more Ringo.

George-Ringo was the coolest Pope. ; )

 

[SouthByWest]

When an author refers to a woman's top with buttons down the middle as a "shirt." It's a blouse. For those writers attempting to write in a woman's voice, this is a dead giveaway that you're not.

When an author refers to "yoga pants." That makes you sound old and outdated. They're called leggings.

 

[Erozetta]

When an author refers to a woman's top with buttons down the middle as a "shirt." It's a blouse. For those writers attempting to write in a woman's voice, this is a dead giveaway that you're not.

When an author refers to "yoga pants." That makes you sound old and outdated. They're called leggings.

Not necessarily.

A blouse is often considered a much softer and more flowy top, while a button-up shirt is more likely to be a heavier fabric with straighter lines.

I'd say "blouse" for things like drapey silk and tops with a pussy bow, and "shirt" for basic long-sleeved cotton button-ups or flannel shirts, whether that shirt is worn by women or men.

 

[mrs_mackenzie]

When an author refers to "yoga pants." That makes you sound old and outdated. They're called leggings.

Not sure if this is a UK thing but I would call athletic clothing intended for exercise 'yoga pants' and any other kind of skin-tight bottom-half outerwear 'leggings'. So I wouldn't wear yoga pants under a dress, but would wear leggings. Equally, I wouldn't wear leggings to the gym.

But it's also entirely possible that I'm old and outdated.

On the original topic of the thread, a particular annoyance of mine is overuse of dashes or brackets to convey additional thoughts in a sentence.

Example: Her tits - 36DD and tanned - were spilling out of her top (which also showed her taut stomach). She looked at Rita's 34F boobs (think of the fun she had with those) and - in a friendly way without seeming creepy - told her she had a great rack.

 

[Erozetta]

As for writer styles that annoy me:

When an author throws in big words for seemingly no reason other than to showcase their vocabulary. It comes across as pretentious and desperate, not cheeky and clever. If it's part of the character's job or something, I'm perfectly fine with that, but just in casual conversation? It's annoying unless the conversation is "What's the most pretentious word you know?"

Also when authors hold their reader's hand through the story. Every single step and detail doesn't need to be laid out. Some things can and should be inferred or left up to the reader to work out.

Outside of scientific-like journal entries, exact measurements have no place in a story. Eyeballing a person's measurements are the same. Unless your character has been a tailor for forty-five years and they're an untouchable genius in their field or they have a robotic eye that measures people from afar against the user's will, just don't.

 

[Justplainjeff]

Here's an example of the kind of thing I mean.

It annoys me when an author gives a character a name with ambiguous pronunciation and gives no clues as to what we're supposed to say in our heads. An example is Cormier. Is it Cormi-ay? or Cormi-air? Annoy, annoy, annoy.

A pet peeve of mine. When a writer uses a character's first and last name, over and over and over.

 

[THBGato]

My pet peeve is when writers feel the need to list the height, weight, cup size, eye colour etc of every character practically the first time they introduce them.

1. It's a shallow assumption that a character's physique is going to be the most attractive thing about them.
2.It makes the story read like a witness statement. Maybe that's somebody's kink, but to me it usually takes me out of the story. When I meet somebody I'm not immediately assessing their vital statistics. Hell, my wife and I have bern married for over a decade and I've no idea how much she weighs and if you asked me her height I'd say "up to my chin".

 

[SinclairGroupLLP]

On the original topic of the thread, a particular annoyance of mine is overuse of dashes or brackets to convey additional thoughts in a sentence.

I am 100% guilty of this, and I know it.

 

[StillStunned]

A pet peeve of mine. When a writer uses a character's first and last name, over and over and over.

It really annoyed me in "Night Watch" by Sergei Lukyanenko, until I realised it must an idiosyncrasy of Russian, that you show respect by addressing people by their full name.

 

[StillStunned]

Example: Her tits - 36DD and tanned - were spilling out of her top (which also showed her taut stomach). She looked at Rita's 34F boobs (think of the fun she had with those) and - in a friendly way without seeming creepy - told her she had a great rack.

Hey, if you're going to quote my stories, at least credit me!

 

[StillStunned]

As for writer styles that annoy me:

When an author throws in big words for seemingly no reason other than to showcase their vocabulary. It comes across as pretentious and desperate, not cheeky and clever. If it's part of the character's job or something, I'm perfectly fine with that, but just in casual conversation? It's annoying unless the conversation is "What's the most pretentious word you know?"

Also when authors hold their reader's hand through the story. Every single step and detail doesn't need to be laid out. Some things can and should be inferred or left up to the reader to work out.

Outside of scientific-like journal entries, exact measurements have no place in a story. Eyeballing a person's measurements are the same. Unless your character has been a tailor for forty-five years and they're an untouchable genius in their field or they have a robotic eye that measures people from afar against the user's will, just don't.

Quoting this because it's so true, it needs saying twice.

 

[TheLobster]

Hate this. Leave the drama in your plot and characters.

He's trying to make a character out of a city, which is hardly damnable thing and has been done successfully by many great writers.

That doesn't mean he is succeeding, of course, but I would not go as far as condemn the attempt alone.