Am I really the only person who finds

[AngelaSaxon]

A couple of people have suggested or implied that I'm out of line being so seemingly harsh about the use of this quite specific spectrum of tropes (if tropes can exist in a spectrum), or that there's an unearned arrogance involved in 'attacking' actual writers, some with significant numbers of people enjoying their work and recognising their talents.

In defence of my own qualifications to make these critiques, however, I'd point out that just over seven years ago, Carnevil9 did what people sometimes do on these forums and offered to read and critique any story a writer wished to put forward for comment.

I proposed a story I'd written, and Carnevil9's response began like this:

"Oh my fucking God. That is just about the most unpleasant story I have ever read."

 

[Venefica]

To the beginning of the thread:

I hate such phrases, too.
It sounds always as a justification of rape. It intends to blurr the line between "YES" and "NO". Even I am aroused by something and say "NO", being aroused would be no permission to violate my will.

And some feelings are sometimes caused simply by mechanical movements. It is no sign that some want that feeling. I saw two scenes in which female pornstars seemed to really orgasm and that was not wanted by them. They immediately stopped and waited till it was over (if this was real and not faked).

 

[AprilTwenties]

I can't honestly comment on rape, boo, but forced/coercion, that has to happen with some form/spectrum of agreement from the girl, right? Things shouldn't be so black and white. There's spectrums of colour as well as emotions. The black and white cliché shit? That should just stay cliché shit.

Lazy writing, lazy understanding.

A xx

 

[AngelaSaxon]

To the beginning of the thread:

I hate such phrases, too.
It sounds always as a justification of rape. It intends to blurr the line between "YES" and "NO". Eveen I am arosued by something and say "NO", being aroused would be no permission to violoate my will.
And some feelings are sometimes caused simply by mechanical movements. It is no sign that some want that feeling. I so two scenes in which female pornstars seem to really orgasm and that was not wanted by them. They immediately stopped and waited till it was over (if this was real and not faked).

I'm also aware of a scene like that, in which they stopped shooting the scene of a scripted porn video and had to restart because of an unscheduled orgasm.

It was a fetish video about the protagonist in a fantastical job interview trying to prove her strength and commitment, by demonstrating her ability to stand in the one spot while holding an open container full of water on top of her head, not spilling a drop while another woman tries a series of ways of messing with her, from gently running fingertips over different parts of her body - arms, legs, thighs, stomach - to stripping off parts of her clothing, and then finally using a vibrator on the main character, eventually holding it directly on her clitoris.

The script had her successfully holding out, but before they made it to the end of shooting she doubled over in what definitely seemed to be a pretty strong orgasm.

They reshot what they needed to in order to get the video to follow the script, but they included her authentic orgasm as an extra at the end and the reactions of cast and crew.

Perhaps ironically, she did actually get through an apparently pretty overwhelming orgasm without spilling a drop of the water she was holding in the lidless container on her head.

It was a video in which all three actors were women, called 'A Test of Poise', put out by a now-long-defunct outfit called Fetish Auteur.

 

[Venefica]

@AprilTwenties

If you mean me.... yes, really, lazy understanding.


I wrote about the initial scenario in which a wet vagina is deeemd a "yes". And this is not neccessarily the case.

Your so called "grey" secenario is a case in which the mind of her changes from no to yes. That is something complete different.

 

[AprilTwenties]

@AprilTwenties

If you mean me.... yes, really, lazy understanding.


I wrote about the initial scenario in which a wet vagina is deeemd a "yes". And this is not neccessarily the case.

Your so called "grey" secenario is a case in which the mind of her changes from no to yes. That is something complete different.

I tend to mean in general, boo....not just an individual case. Maybe it works the narrative better? No idea. Maybe the story would drag...or maybe the reader would get more gripped?

A xx

 

[AngelaSaxon]

Incidentally, one of the things that had me starting this thread was that, because he wrote so many hundred stories, the works of Ashson kept appearing in the 'Random Stories' section of the NC/R section

So far as I could tell every single one of literally hundreds moved through the exact same path, where the woman being forced starts pushing up to meet his thrusts into her, usually uncontrollably, or 'instinctively', or without even realising at first, but certainly in every one I looked at.

In case anyone thinks I'm exaggerating, this is one quote from each of the Ashson NC/R stories I read, from my notes:

I was moving with him, pressing up against him in time to the way he came crashing in

It only took a couple of strokes and Nat was responding, pressing up to meet me,

Those sweet little motions you're feeling are you own hips pressing up to try to get better acquainted

she found herself pressing up to meet him when he pushed in

If I was pressing up to meet him it wasn't deliberate and I'm sure he knew it

Against my will I could feel my body starting to squirm under his touches, my mound pressing up against his intrusive hand

She had the rhythm now, her hips pressing up to meet my strokes

Elizabeth was starting to move with him now, pressing up to meet him as he drove home.

Her response was immediate, pressing up to meet me

It didn't really take long before she was rocking to my pace, gently pressing up to meet me

She gave a slight yelp as her virginity fell by the wayside but that didn't stop her as she kept pushing up against me

It was easy, just pushing up against him, feeling him go deep into me

Instead of just lying there while I stuck her, Mildred was pushing up against me as I went in

As soon as I felt his cock coming in I gave a soft squeal (of protest, naturally) and lifted my lips, pushing up to meet him

it finally dawned on her that I was not only fully inside her but she was cooperating while I took her, her hips pushing up firmly to meet my thrusts

and then he was driving in forcefully. Patti screamed and arched her back, pushing up hard to take him

Despite what she might have wanted Terri found herself responding, pushing up to meet him

Slowly but surely I increased my speed, pulling right back and then plunging in, feeling her pushing up to take me

Instinct is a wonderful thing. A couple more strokes and she was pushing up to meet me

I was doing my own share of bouncing, arching my back and pushing up to meet him

Every time he thrust in my whole body seemed to come alive, pushing up to meet him

She gasped, pushing up just as hard as she eagerly met my thrust

If I hadn't been pushing up to meet him I'm quite sure he'd have left an imprint of my bottom in the floor

From then on it was a case of, "Oo, ah, yes, wow, oh my god, yes, yes, yes, etc." I was liking it just fine, pushing up to meet him

I have to admit that I was pushing up to meet him every time his cock thundered into me

I noted with some approval that she was now pushing up to meet me

Still moving nice and easy he pulled back and returned, with Maria giving a small mew of a sound, pushing up to meet him

(as an additional note, don't ever use the word 'mewing' to describe any sound a woman makes you disgusting fucks lol)

After I'd performed this simple but pleasurable act a few times Tania started moving with me, pushing up to meet me when I drove in

I adjusted, pushing up to meet him, desire burning quite fiercely inside me

I started push-ups of my own, heaving my hips violently upwards every time he came down on me

"Bend your legs and push up against me," I told her, and she did

I'd been lying there, enjoying it, legs outstretched, not really having to do anything other than push up to meet him

I started pressing more firmly, sliding deeper into her, not totally surprised when her instinctive reaction was to push up against me

.... and that's where I stopped taking notes on Ashson NC/R stories. Yes one involved pushing against his hand, and I couldn't be bothered going back to check if she also pushed up to meet his cock - I'm honestly taking that for granted.

In any case, after that point I started assuming that I'd probably got a reasonably reliable sense of the five or six tropes animating the five or six hundred NC/R stories he's written... so to preserve my own sanity I had to stop...I kept having this urge to offer him fifty bucks if he'll write just one that doesn't involve any version of that trope... just so we can know it exists... to maintain the illusion...the lie, that something else is possible...

 

[Audiflex]

Am I really the only person who finds all capacity to enjoy a story disappears the moment I get to the bit where someone writes the central female character as thinking:

"Ohmygod I'm being betrayed by my body, I'm getting wet against my will/when my ideas of my own sexuality say I shouldn't, am I a slut who wants to be dominated, who wants to obey this person growling manly instructions at me? I do! I am! I'm joyfully subservient and obedient!" etc...

I'd mention a particular story but in all honesty it feels like hundreds, and not in the BDSM section...

I know some women write broadly similar things, but I feel like the massive misinterpretation of the meaning of a vagina lubricating has to be a manifestation of something guys think or pretend to believe, surely?

I don't know, maybe it's a convenient short-hand in erotic writing, like implicitly pretending people don't have teeth whenever writing a blowjob scene.

But it feels closer to the ones that aren't just convenient for writing but convenient for fitting into particular... views.

Like some guy read that some women orgasm while being raped and ever since that's been a shorthand for whatever they wish - she loves being treated that way/discovers she's a sub, or proving a woman is a 'slut' (a creature more fictional than a futa) - and of course the orgasm forced upon a woman is always the most mind-blowing and sexuality-changing of her life. (Comparison with the actual experience of women who have had this happen would distinctly suggest otherwise but comparison would also be in bad taste. Like comparing superheroes getting powers from radiation to the actual experiences of people living around Hiroshima at the end of WW2...)

Anyway, like I say I didn't want to name a particular story for including that initial paragraph, but...am I the only one who is wrenched out of a story every time that paragraph appears?

Yeah, I totally get where you’re coming from. That trope can feel super jarring and reductive, like it’s pushing a fantasy that doesn’t align with how real people (or bodies) work. It’s one thing if it’s part of a consensual kink dynamic, but when it’s thrown in as a lazy shorthand for “she secretly wants it,” it can really pull you out of the story. It’s frustrating how often it pops up, too like you said, it’s everywhere. You’re definitely not alone in feeling that way!

 

[AngelaSaxon]

I just read a story in the NC/R section in which the author writes, without the slightest hint that it's supposed to be a joke or even just an opinion as opposed to him stating a fact, that:

"The best part of a blowjob for a woman is for a man to cum on their face."

The main character also writes about the central woman having a sexually unadventurous and unsatisfying marriage and literally the key statement is that he can't believe she'd got to forty without having someone cum on her face.

So either he thinks porn is real life, or he thinks all guys have an idea of sex.so determined by porn that it's a sign of some lack not to have, well, the best part of a blowjob for a woman ("most women are natural cocksuckers" is another statement).

I know these stories aren't really written for women, on the whole, and they're fantasies many guys don't confuse with reality, but you know, lol.

I'm pretty sure the most sexually adventurous people I've ever known, the bisexual, group sex, double penetration, fisting on occasion people, have never had the slightest personal interest in having a guy cum on their face - that they're divided between the people who have never had that happen because it's primarily a really specific, porn-taught fetish that's not actually fun or interesting, and the women who've done it, let a guy do it, just because a guy wants to and they're being good sports and overlooking the degree to which it's related to fantasies of control or power or humiliation (as opposed to the realities of boredom and indifference and having to get a washcloth...)

 

[Venefica]

Yes, the "pornification" of the society is an importan area where fakenews rule ...

 

[StillStunned]

"The best part of a blowjob for a woman is for a man to cum on their face."

Perhaps he asked a woman what she liked best about giving a blowjob, and she answered, "When it ends." And then he jumped to a conclusion.

 

[AlinaX]

It’s a visual kink. Plus, less to swallow.

 

[subdudeme13]

Incidentally, one of the things that had me starting this thread was that, because he wrote so many hundred stories, the works of Ashson kept appearing in the 'Random Stories' section of the NC/R section

So far as I could tell every single one of literally hundreds moved through the exact same path, where the woman being forced starts pushing up to meet his thrusts into her, usually uncontrollably, or 'instinctively', or without even realising at first, but certainly in every one I looked at.

In case anyone thinks I'm exaggerating, this is one quote from each of the Ashson NC/R stories I read, from my notes:

I was moving with him, pressing up against him in time to the way he came crashing in

It only took a couple of strokes and Nat was responding, pressing up to meet me,

Those sweet little motions you're feeling are you own hips pressing up to try to get better acquainted

she found herself pressing up to meet him when he pushed in

If I was pressing up to meet him it wasn't deliberate and I'm sure he knew it

Against my will I could feel my body starting to squirm under his touches, my mound pressing up against his intrusive hand

She had the rhythm now, her hips pressing up to meet my strokes

Elizabeth was starting to move with him now, pressing up to meet him as he drove home.

Her response was immediate, pressing up to meet me

It didn't really take long before she was rocking to my pace, gently pressing up to meet me

She gave a slight yelp as her virginity fell by the wayside but that didn't stop her as she kept pushing up against me

It was easy, just pushing up against him, feeling him go deep into me

Instead of just lying there while I stuck her, Mildred was pushing up against me as I went in

As soon as I felt his cock coming in I gave a soft squeal (of protest, naturally) and lifted my lips, pushing up to meet him

it finally dawned on her that I was not only fully inside her but she was cooperating while I took her, her hips pushing up firmly to meet my thrusts

and then he was driving in forcefully. Patti screamed and arched her back, pushing up hard to take him

Despite what she might have wanted Terri found herself responding, pushing up to meet him

Slowly but surely I increased my speed, pulling right back and then plunging in, feeling her pushing up to take me

Instinct is a wonderful thing. A couple more strokes and she was pushing up to meet me

I was doing my own share of bouncing, arching my back and pushing up to meet him

Every time he thrust in my whole body seemed to come alive, pushing up to meet him

She gasped, pushing up just as hard as she eagerly met my thrust

If I hadn't been pushing up to meet him I'm quite sure he'd have left an imprint of my bottom in the floor

From then on it was a case of, "Oo, ah, yes, wow, oh my god, yes, yes, yes, etc." I was liking it just fine, pushing up to meet him

I have to admit that I was pushing up to meet him every time his cock thundered into me

I noted with some approval that she was now pushing up to meet me

Still moving nice and easy he pulled back and returned, with Maria giving a small mew of a sound, pushing up to meet him

(as an additional note, don't ever use the word 'mewing' to describe any sound a woman makes you disgusting fucks lol)

After I'd performed this simple but pleasurable act a few times Tania started moving with me, pushing up to meet me when I drove in

I adjusted, pushing up to meet him, desire burning quite fiercely inside me

I started push-ups of my own, heaving my hips violently upwards every time he came down on me

"Bend your legs and push up against me," I told her, and she did

I'd been lying there, enjoying it, legs outstretched, not really having to do anything other than push up to meet him

I started pressing more firmly, sliding deeper into her, not totally surprised when her instinctive reaction was to push up against me

.... and that's where I stopped taking notes on Ashson NC/R stories. Yes one involved pushing against his hand, and I couldn't be bothered going back to check if she also pushed up to meet his cock - I'm honestly taking that for granted.

In any case, after that point I started assuming that I'd probably got a reasonably reliable sense of the five or six tropes animating the five or six hundred NC/R stories he's written... so to preserve my own sanity I had to stop...I kept having this urge to offer him fifty bucks if he'll write just one that doesn't involve any version of that trope... just so we can know it exists... to maintain the illusion...the lie, that something else is possible...

Be still my heart!

 

[AngelaSaxon]

Be still my heart!

lol

 

[yowser]

I just read a story in the NC/R section in which the author writes, without the slightest hint that it's supposed to be a joke or even just an opinion as opposed to him stating a fact, that:

"The best part of a blowjob for a woman is for a man to cum on their face."

From one of my tales:

The one thing that guarantees I will never suck you again is the hand on the back of my head. I do not fucking know why so many guys think this is a brilliant move, maybe they have seen it in porn or something and they think it is manly or who knows. But if you put your hand on the back of my head and try to force me onto your dick you are done.

<snip>

I also don't like the sperm in the face thing, and have gotten pretty good at just not having that happen. Most of the time it is not hard to keep a guy's cock in your mouth if he is about to explode, but every so often one of them gets the idea that they want to see sperm all over your face. I don't know if the handsome girls get this more or not, but you can have it. Sperm in the eyes is a pain in the ass.

 

[VerbalAbuse]

Am I really the only person who finds all capacity to enjoy a story disappears the moment I get to the bit where someone writes the central female character as thinking:

"Ohmygod I'm being betrayed by my body, I'm getting wet against my will/when my ideas of my own sexuality say I shouldn't, am I a slut who wants to be dominated, who wants to obey this person growling manly instructions at me? I do! I am! I'm joyfully subservient and obedient!" etc...

I'd mention a particular story but in all honesty it feels like hundreds, and not in the BDSM section...

I know some women write broadly similar things, but I feel like the massive misinterpretation of the meaning of a vagina lubricating has to be a manifestation of something guys think or pretend to believe, surely?

I don't know, maybe it's a convenient short-hand in erotic writing, like implicitly pretending people don't have teeth whenever writing a blowjob scene.

But it feels closer to the ones that aren't just convenient for writing but convenient for fitting into particular... views.

Like some guy read that some women orgasm while being raped and ever since that's been a shorthand for whatever they wish - she loves being treated that way/discovers she's a sub, or proving a woman is a 'slut' (a creature more fictional than a futa) - and of course the orgasm forced upon a woman is always the most mind-blowing and sexuality-changing of her life. (Comparison with the actual experience of women who have had this happen would distinctly suggest otherwise but comparison would also be in bad taste. Like comparing superheroes getting powers from radiation to the actual experiences of people living around Hiroshima at the end of WW2...)

Anyway, like I say I didn't want to name a particular story for including that initial paragraph, but...am I the only one who is wrenched out of a story every time that paragraph appears?

yeah, well. What then do you think of Story of O? Is O nothing but a dumb bitch eager to be branded like a cow in public? I don't think Story of O is great literature, but it has its fans. Some actually think quite well of themselves surprise, surprise!

 

[subdudeme13]

I just read a story in the NC/R section in which the author writes, without the slightest hint that it's supposed to be a joke or even just an opinion as opposed to him stating a fact, that:

"The best part of a blowjob for a woman is for a man to cum on their face."

The main character also writes about the central woman having a sexually unadventurous and unsatisfying marriage and literally the key statement is that he can't believe she'd got to forty without having someone cum on her face.

So either he thinks porn is real life, or he thinks all guys have an idea of sex.so determined by porn that it's a sign of some lack not to have, well, the best part of a blowjob for a woman ("most women are natural cocksuckers" is another statement).

I know these stories aren't really written for women, on the whole, and they're fantasies many guys don't confuse with reality, but you know, lol.

I'm pretty sure the most sexually adventurous people I've ever known, the bisexual, group sex, double penetration, fisting on occasion people, have never had the slightest personal interest in having a guy cum on their face - that they're divided between the people who have never had that happen because it's primarily a really specific, porn-taught fetish that's not actually fun or interesting, and the women who've done it, let a guy do it, just because a guy wants to and they're being good sports and overlooking the degree to which it's related to fantasies of control or power or humiliation (as opposed to the realities of boredom and indifference and having to get a washcloth...)

I don't think I know a woman that wants a guy to come on her face. My guess would be that there are some. I did have a Domme that wanted me to masturbate and cum on her breast at the end of a session and I was told to make sure I had a load for her.
So I am sure you don't want to make sweepting statements about women and humiliation and I am on the other side of the coin. I crave humiliation and love it when a woman squirts on my face.

 

[AlinaX]

yeah, well. What then do you think of Story of O? Is O nothing but a dumb bitch eager to be branded like a cow in public? I don't think Story of O is great literature, but it has its fans. Some actually think quite well of themselves surprise, surprise!

It’s a difficult story to like. I enjoyed the bondage elements a lot, but being submissive to the point of being branded is confusing without some sort of balance. There’s an almost total abnegation of self that isn’t erotic.

 

[VerbalAbuse]

It’s a difficult story to like. I enjoyed the bondage elements a lot, but being submissive to the point of being branded is confusing without some sort of balance. There’s an almost total abnegation of self that isn’t erotic.

mind you, the story was written by a woman.

 

[AngelaSaxon]

mind you, the story was written by a woman.

Indeed, she wrote it for her bf Jean Paulhan because he was a big fan of de Sade. People into dom-sub fantasy obviously exist. They've even got a whole section here.

 

[VerbalAbuse]

Indeed, she wrote it for her bf Jean Paulhan because he was a big fan of de Sade. People into dom-sub fantasy obviously exist. They've even got a whole section here.

ah. I did not know she did not mean it. Makes sense, if you think about it.

 

[AngelaSaxon]

ah. I did not know she did not mean it. Makes sense, if you think about it.

I don't know if she meant it or not, or in what ways or to what degrees - just that she said she chose particular content because JP - himself an extremely influential French intellectual, editor of possibly the most influential French literary-political journal of the period between the wars - was very much into de Sade.

The attached image is of a book written by Jean Paulhan, for whom she said she wrote The Story of O - she certainly wasn't making up the degree to which de Sade loomed large in his interests.

 

[AngelaSaxon]

I don't know if she meant it or not, or in what ways or to what degrees - just that she said she chose particular content because JP - himself an extremely influential French intellectual, editor of possibly the most influential French literary-political journal of the period between the wars - was very much into de Sade.

The attached image is of a book written by Jean Paulhan, for whom she said she wrote The Story of O - she certainly wasn't making up the degree to which de Sade loomed large in his interests.

Incidentally, the attached is a letter that appeared in the 1 December 1966 edition of The East Village Other.

 

[lovecraft68]

Its obvious women being abused here is the norm, but anything towards men is met with squealing and mass hysteria.

 

[ElectricBlue]

So either he thinks porn is real life, or he thinks all guys have an idea of sex.so determined by porn that it's a sign of some lack not to have, well, the best part of a blowjob for a woman ("most women are natural cocksuckers" is another statement).

When you get 50% of people in a survey thinking choking is an okay thing to do, are you surprised?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-02-08/young-people-choking-during-sex-research-safety/104909998