A few words in praise of E&V

[StillStunned]

I love writing fantasy and sci-fi, and a fair chunk of my oeuvre here is either in the SF&F category or else contains some supernatural elements.

But my other Lit love is Exhibitionist & Voyeur, and specifically the voyeur side. Today I was struck by a new reason for that - beyond the usual, i.e. describing the voyeur's thrill, the conflict between desire and guilt, the opportunity to describe sexy women being sexy, and of course the very welcoming readership in the E&V category.

Here it is: it's fast. I don't need to spend time building and explaining a world (as much fun as that is), I can get away with barely any character, and mostly I can get right into the juicy bits. That's not to say I haven't done all that in E&V stories (The Walled Garden and A Quiet Woman being prime examples), but a voyeur story works perfectly well with just a description of why the narrator is where he is, and then what he sees. That is, after all, basically the essence of a voyeur story. Put the reader in a position to sneak a peek at something they shouldn't.

All this is to say that my new story should be finished very soon. E&V - but of course with supernatural elements.

 

[AG31]

I love writing fantasy and sci-fi, and a fair chunk of my oeuvre here is either in the SF&F category or else contains some supernatural elements.

But my other Lit love is Exhibitionist & Voyeur, and specifically the voyeur side. Today I was struck by a new reason for that - beyond the usual, i.e. describing the voyeur's thrill, the conflict between desire and guilt, the opportunity to describe sexy women being sexy, and of course the very welcoming readership in the E&V category.

Here it is: it's fast. I don't need to spend time building and explaining a world (as much fun as that is), I can get away with barely any character, and mostly I can get right into the juicy bits. That's not to say I haven't done all that in E&V stories (The Walled Garden and A Quiet Woman being prime examples), but a voyeur story works perfectly well with just a description of why the narrator is where he is, and then what he sees. That is, after all, basically the essence of a voyeur story. Put the reader in a position to sneak a peek at something they shouldn't.

All this is to say that my new story should be finished very soon. E&V - but of course with supernatural elements.

Let's hear it for simple erotica!!!!

 

[SimonDoom]

E&V is one of my favorite categories. It makes up the second highest number of my stories. I like the voyeurism element, too, but I enjoy female exhibitionism even more. I've always enjoyed those stories and I enjoy writing them.

It's a topical category, as well. The rise of social media has turned us into a culture of voyeurs and exhibitionists, with fascinating results and implications. The rapid success of OnlyFans and similar sites has created unlimited opportunities for would-be exhibitionists, a theme I've explored in my stories, such as my last one. Personal Chef.

I agree, too, that it's a relatively "nice" and forgiving readership. It's tolerant of a lot. Since so many of my stories have themes of exhibitionism it's a go-to category for me when I'm not sure where else to put the story.

As you say, as well, it's fairly easy to do. Not only is significant setup not required, in many cases it's better off if there is none. A man looks out his window and sees a woman undressing through a window. No explanation of why or how is needed; the mystery of what she's doing and why is part of the fun and eroticism of the story.

The bottom line, for me, is that E&V is the best venue for celebrating the beauty of the female body.

@StillStunned , what's your favorite of your E&V stories? I'll check it out.

 

[StillStunned]

As you say, as well, it's fairly easy to do. Not only is significant setup not required, in many cases it's better off if there is none. A man looks out his window and sees a woman undressing through a window. No explanation of why or how is needed; the mystery of what she's doing and why is part of the fun and eroticism of the story.

Yup. It's a situation almost every man can relate to, I think. Who's not going to be at least tempted to watch, even if they have the discipline not to? And it's not just men, at least not if you stretch the definition of voyeurism to include listening. I've known plenty of women who enjoyed listening to their neighbours, and in my mixed dorm at uni would linger in the corridor outside a particular room...

The bottom line, for me, is that E&V is the best venue for celebrating the beauty of the female body.

And it gives you the chance to let the woman be natural, as if there are no eyes on her.

@StillStunned , what's your favorite of your E&V stories? I'll check it out.

That's like asking me to pick my favourite cat! But I'll stick to just one, and say Pas de Trois.

 

[AG31]

As you say, as well, it's fairly easy to do. Not only is significant setup not required, in many cases it's better off if there is none.

Yup!!!! Again, let's hear it for simple erotica.

 

[Dearelliot]

My wife was in the hospital and when I visited, she told me she had a very attractive and nice male nurse...While there, he came in to help her and I noted she carelessly exposed her dark nippled breasts in front of him, something she could have easily avoided. And I realized she wanted to do that.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

I do like writing E&V. While it can be as simple as somebody undressing in the window, it offers the potential for delightful and challenging complexity as well.

 

[StillStunned]

I do like writing E&V. While it can be as simple as somebody undressing in the window, it offers the potential for delightful and challenging complexity as well.

A Quiet Woman is about watching a woman through her window, but it's actually a story of a battered wife finding her identity. And about being on the outside and looking in.

Not that I expect readers picked up on the last theme.

 

[StillStunned]

And The Walled Garden flips the usual scenario, because it's two women watching a handsome young man get all sweaty. With character development and blah blah.

 

[StillStunned]

Maybe we can turn this thread into a general discussion of writing E&V stories.

Does anyone remember the first Writing Exercise I posted here? Jack and Jill go for a hike and spy on a couple having sex. My snippet has been in my WIP folder all this time, and recently I decided to write some more of it.

It was all going great, until I realised that I'd slipped into 1P, instead of 3P - just about the time Jack, as the POV character, joins Jill in spying on the other couple.

I went back and changed it all to 3P, and continued writing. And guess what? A paragraph or two later I'd slipped back into 1P.

Now I'm wondering whether this is inherent in voyeur stories. All my other voyeur stories have been in 1P, regardless of the narrator's gender, and regardless of the story's tone. (I've written one exhibitionist story, written in 3P from the perspective of the female protagonist.)

It seems to me that there's something about the voyeur mindset that works best in 1P. Something about being inside the narrator's mind makes the voyeurism more immediate. When I changed back to 3P for Jack, the thoughts and feelings and reactions felt out of place. More contrived, perhaps.

Does anyone else have any thoughts on this? I'd love to hear them!

 

[TheLobster]

My experience with E&V is limited to just one story, but coincidentally it is also my only 1P story so far. Perhaps there is some plausibility then, to this theory that the genre pretty much requires a direct first-person perspective.

If I were to speculate as to why, I'd say that 3P inherently puts the narrator, and thus the reader, slightly outside of the character's experiences. No matter how close the 3P narration is, the point of view is always external. But what is this external point of view looking at, then?

Yep, that's right -- a character watching another, more sexy character. Surely it'd be nicer if we could just look at the sexy one directly, while getting into the head of the voyeur to enhance our experience of watching?

 

[ElectricBlue]

Does anyone else have any thoughts on this? I'd love to hear them!

I think you're probably right, about first person intrinsically suiting the voyeur's point of view. It's not necessarily an automatic choice, but if you keep ending up there, why fight it?

I'm not sure (and I'm too lazy to check) whether I've written any E&V stories as such, but I've written closely observed watching scenes many times. My favourite exhibitionist scene is probably this one:

"Do you mind if I'm more comfortable? This skirt...." She unzipped two-thirds of the zip, revealing the top of her stockings and the pale flesh of her thighs. "Ahh, that's better." She eased her long thighs comfortably apart, revealing a shadow and a hint of her sex.

"More perfection?" Adam carefully asked, with a glint of pleasure in his eyes.

"Oh, yes, don't you think so?"

Maddy eased her body back further, relaxing even more into the comfort of the pod and the caress of his eyes. The hem of her skirt crept higher, revealing a longer hint of her sex and a creamy shadow between her thighs.

Adam watched as Madelyn exhibited herself before him, her fingers slow in her cunt as she came. She looked at him watching her, closing her eyes only in the final shuddering quiver of her orgasm.

"I'm not going to get your personal number, am I?" Adam asked.

"Oh no, Mister Cain, I don't do that. But can I have your tie?"

 

[Britva415]

The concept of “point of view” becomes more charged when the subject-matter of the story is inherently about point of “view.”

EV is probably easier to write in 1pPOV than other categories, which are already easier to write in 1p than in 3p.

One could take this as “making the lazy shortcut even lazier,” or, one could take it as “well, there’s a better reason for 1p in this category (on the whole) than for the other categories (on the whole).”

One could also take it as a challenge: Write a 3p EV story which exploits the non-default pov.

I think one could get mileage out of using 3p pov to voyeurize someone else’s voyeurism.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

I haven't read a ton in E/V but what I have read, it seems that exhibition (ie a girl with no inhibitions) is a lot more popular than voyeur.

 

[RetroFan]

I've heard it said that E & V is one of the easiest categories to satisfy, and that you frequently get high scores, lots of favourites and positive comments with plenty of praise from readers.

However, my one attempt from writing in the category was a disappointing experience, with the story rating poorly and negative reactions. I've never been able to figure out what I did 'wrong' with my story, set in the late 1940s and about a young woman who gets off teasing the mama's boy who lives next door, such as by undressing with her window shades wide open, and didn't receive any helpful feedback positive or negative to ascertain this either.

 

[MrStill]

I've heard it said that E & V is one of the easiest categories to satisfy, and that you frequently get high scores, lots of favourites and positive comments with plenty of praise from readers.

However, my one attempt from writing in the category was a disappointing experience, with the story rating poorly and negative reactions. I've never been able to figure out what I did 'wrong' with my story, set in the late 1940s and about a young woman who gets off teasing the mama's boy who lives next door, such as by undressing with her window shades wide open, and didn't receive any helpful feedback positive or negative to ascertain this either.

However, get a bunch of women stripping off in an office to go round all day delivering messages...

 

[StillStunned]

The concept of “point of view” becomes more charged when the subject-matter of the story is inherently about point of “view.”

EV is probably easier to write in 1pPOV than other categories, which are already easier to write in 1p than in 3p.

One could take this as “making the lazy shortcut even lazier,” or, one could take it as “well, there’s a better reason for 1p in this category (on the whole) than for the other categories (on the whole).”

One could also take it as a challenge: Write a 3p EV story which exploits the non-default pov.

I think one could get mileage out of using 3p pov to voyeurize someone else’s voyeurism.

My stories explore a range of different voyeur scenarios. Plain watching, but also being tied up and being made to watch, or being forced to watch instead of joining in because of other obligations, and often combined with being watched by outsiders. And of course listening in on other people's conversations.

I'm trying with 3P voyeurism, but it's taking a different mindset. If I can't make it work, then so be it. There's a reason why 1P works so well, and deliberately going against it just to prove a point is a bit pointless.

I haven't read a ton in E/V but what I have read, it seems that exhibition (ie a girl with no inhibitions) is a lot more popular than voyeur.

My voyeur stories do well enough.

 

[Britva415]

deliberately going against it just to prove a point is a bit pointless

One, that wouldn’t be the point. The point would be if there were a good story in it.

Second… this was a little surprising to read, as I honestly thought that was the point of You Know You Shouldn’t. Which did turn out to be a decent story, but did it really come about without any “see if we can prove a point” as the impetus?

 

[StillStunned]

One, that wouldn’t be the point. The point would be if there were a good story in it.

Second… this was a little surprising to read, as I honestly thought that was the point of You Know You Shouldn’t. Which did turn out to be a decent story, but did it really come about without any “see if we can prove a point” as the impetus?

Fair enough. Maybe it's because I'm approaching this one as a story I want to write, rather than an exercise in writing technique. I'll need to think some more about the effect of the different perspectives.

 

[StillStunned]

Here's a thought: how far can we stretch the concept of "voyeur"?

So far my stories have included 1) straightforward voyeurism, 2) the narrator watching and/or listening but unable to join in, 3) a blind character secretly listening and later watching with her mind, 4) two women masturbating on opposite sides of a river, 5) two women both watching the same man and talking about him over the phone.

Now I'm thinking of a story where male POV character watches a female non-POV character spying on a sexual act. Probably with her bent over and describing what she's seeing, with him lifting her skirt and... Well, you know. Scene quite possibly inspired by Emmanuelle 2.

 

[HeyAll]

E / V is a great catagory and I used to write there a lot, but sadly readership there has decreased.

People are more reliant on Hubs and E/V isn't a premiere destination.

 

[SimonDoom]

E / V is a great catagory and I used to write there a lot, but sadly readership there has decreased.

People are more reliant on Hubs and E/V isn't a premiere destination.

Why would this be? I have written 15 E&V stories, starting in March 2017, and I have noticed that my more recent EV stories have received nowhere near the same number of views as the earlier ones I wrote. My story from March 2017 has over 380,000 views, despite never having achieved a "red H." The more recent EV stories I've written have nowhere near that level of success, and based on the daily views they get they never will.

 

[HeyAll]

Why would this be? I have written 15 E&V stories, starting in March 2017, and I have noticed that my more recent EV stories have received nowhere near the same number of views as the earlier ones I wrote. My story from March 2017 has over 380,000 views, despite never having achieved a "red H." The more recent EV stories I've written have nowhere near that level of success, and based on the daily views they get they never will.

IMO people favor the Hubs, especially after the recent re-design.

Winners are Taboo, Gay/Lesbian, Mature, Scifi/fantasy.

E/V is not a catagory people think to click.

 

[StillStunned]

Now I'm thinking of a story where male POV character watches a female non-POV character spying on a sexual act. Probably with her bent over and describing what she's seeing, with him lifting her skirt and... Well, you know. Scene quite possibly inspired by Emmanuelle 2.

I should really be working, but this story is suddenly forming in my head. Featuring Allie, from The Code and Flesh for Another Fantasy. Mostly because I can't be arsed to think of a new name.

She finds the narrator's binoculars in his spare room, and he confesses that the house nearby is rented out to tourists. A new couple just arrived, and she wants to see what they're up to...