WilliamButlerYeats (The other)

[twelveoone]

WilliamButlerYeats

I oppose the fasting for four reasons, - WBY

I have four reasons for this. It is called alliteration, assonance, rhyme and metre. Take "oppose" the long O, notice how many times in the first stanza of "Roman Holiday" it occurs This guy could give lessons. He has already did for me. So unless you feel you've mastered these four things, it will be worth your time to visit his seven poems.

He has a few other tricks, "fasting for four reasons" , the change of a letter has an important effect, glancing over one almost expects "seasons", the change takes it out of the realm of tired language,

One of the things about growth is the recognition someone does something better than you. These are four major things this guy does better than me. (and probably most)

As for our disagreements, WBY, I have my reasons, and with what I do, I am very good at.

Go, go check this guy out. It is always the poetry that counts, a major part of poetry is craft.

Was I right?

 

[GuiltyPleasure]

I'm already a huge fan.

 

[butters]

they're an elegant read. i hope to have time tomorrow, being sunday, to get stuck in to reads/comments. artfully done, the words make my mouth dance....

 

[WilliamButlerYeats]

While I'm flattered by the praise and criticism, I'm not sure what I can add to your thread, Twelveoone. I used to write in a calculated way where I could tell you the formula for each poem, but I'm too old to spend so many hours in dictionaries and thesaurii. I only have one or two tricks and an interest in meter.

Warm Regards,
WBY

 

[twelveoone]

While I'm flattered by the praise and criticism, I'm not sure what I can add to your thread, Twelveoone. I used to write in a calculated way where I could tell you the formula for each poem, but I'm too old to spend so many hours in dictionaries and thesaurii. I only have one or two tricks and an interest in meter.

Warm Regards,
WBY

The place does suffer much from lack of craft.
One of the biggest tricks is learning not to write what you feel, but to get the reader to feel.That entails thought and craft.
It is a little dismaying that two of the better writers respond, and none of those that need it most. A lot of your work looks like textbook cases of how to make it sound better, i.e. not that hard to pick out, just follow the vowels.
There are other things of course, they are harder to illustrate.
Thank you

 

[WilliamButlerYeats]

Maybe someone can help me. I've had this poem in my pocket for a long time now. It's one of those can't-get-right poems. The first stanza is the problem, it doesn't seem to fit with the second and third. I'm bothered, I feel as if the second and third stanzas are telling me this will be a good poem if their introduction was up to the same standard. Any suggestions?

{We press our faces to the glass,
and breathe upon the frozen frame,
together we can cloud the pane,
and obscure the outside masses,}

Isn't it rash for me to presume,
we can veil the past in a brume,
and reveal only the discreet,
to paint our present picture sweet,

Now we press the glass with fingers,
and there linger against the last
of our hopes we wished would surpass
our age, which seems of a different class.

 

[twelveoone]

be interested as to why you think it doesn't fit, is that the reason for the parens?

 

[WilliamButlerYeats]

be interested as to why you think it doesn't fit, is that the reason for the parens?

The parens just reiterated my unhappiness with the first stanza. The fourth line ending in 'masses' makes me cringe a bit, not just because it isn't a whole rhyme either. I guess it's like when you start out writing a poem and get sloppy in the ensuing stanzas, except this is in reverse, the first is sloppy and it became closer to what I imagined in the second and third.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Maybe someone can help me. I've had this poem in my pocket for a long time now. It's one of those can't-get-right poems. The first stanza is the problem, it doesn't seem to fit with the second and third. I'm bothered, I feel as if the second and third stanzas are telling me this will be a good poem if their introduction was up to the same standard. Any suggestions?

{We press our faces to the glass,
and breathe upon the frozen frame,
together we can cloud the pane,
and obscure the outside masses,}

Isn't it rash for me to presume,
we can veil the past in a brume,
and reveal only the discreet,
to paint our present picture sweet,

Now we press the glass with fingers,
and there linger against the last
of our hopes we wished would surpass
our age, which seems of a different class.

Do you want this to have some sort of specific rhyme pattern? At the moment what I see is abba/aabb/--aa

 

[greenmountaineer]

Maybe someone can help me. I've had this poem in my pocket for a long time now. It's one of those can't-get-right poems. The first stanza is the problem, it doesn't seem to fit with the second and third. I'm bothered, I feel as if the second and third stanzas are telling me this will be a good poem if their introduction was up to the same standard. Any suggestions?

{We press our faces to the glass,
and breathe upon the frozen frame,
together we can cloud the pane,
and obscure the outside masses,}

Isn't it rash for me to presume,
we can veil the past in a brume,
and reveal only the discreet,
to paint our present picture sweet,

Now we press the glass with fingers,
and there linger against the last
of our hopes we wished would surpass
our age, which seems of a different class.

I liked the narrative flow in the poem and the first stanza, so I'm guessing your dissatisfaction stems from the sound of it. I would have had 9 syllables in the last line. I also don't think "obscure" and "outside" alliterate well because of the harsh consonants in "obscure." I'd replace "obscure" with a three syllable word, perhaps "falsify" unless you think it changes the meaning too much from what you intended.

We press our faces to the glass.....
x / x / x / x /
and falsify the outside masses
x / x / x / x / x

 

[butters]

for me, the rhythm you use in the first verse sets up expectations for it to continue that don't follow through. reading 2 & 3 alone, my ear picks up quite a different beat which affects the mood of the poem as i read it. perhaps you need to first decide how you want this rhythm to work, 'cos the two aren't sitting side by side at all comfortably, imo.

the word-choices can be tinkered with, but there's not much awry - i really do think it's a rhythm thing that's the issue here. not to mention the rhyme pattern is different for each verse.... is that intentional, and related to the narrative's point?

{We press our faces to the glass,
and breathe upon the frozen frame,
together we can cloud the pane,
and obscure the outside masses,}

Isn't it rash for me to presume,
we can veil the past in a brume,
and reveal only the discreet,
to paint our present picture sweet,

Now we press the glass with fingers,
and there linger against the last
of our hopes we wished would surpass
our age, which seems of a different class.

 

[WilliamButlerYeats]

Thanks for commenting chip, uys, greenmountaineer.

Going from abba to aabb was intentional, so was rhythm change from second to third stanza. I think I might need a stricter meter in the first stanza, maybe force a perfect rhyme on the fourth line.

Here's a second try, tell me what you think. Your previous comments nudged me through a long running logjam, so thanks again, even if I end up changing it again and again.


We press our faces to the glass,
With breath upon the frozen frame,
Together we can cloud the pane,
And unify each opaque mass,

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Thanks for commenting chip, uys, greenmountaineer.

Going from abba to aabb was intentional, so was rhythm change from second to third stanza. I think I might need a stricter meter in the first stanza, maybe force a perfect rhyme on the fourth line.

Here's a second try, tell me what you think. Your previous comments nudged me through a long running logjam, so thanks again, even if I end up changing it again and again.


We press our faces to the glass,
With breath upon the frozen frame,
Together we can cloud the pane,
And unify each opaque mass,

It isn't a forced rhyme IMHO if it fits as this does but having got into the rhythm for the first stanza you put me out of kilter going into the second, not because of the change of rhyme pattern but because of the number of words. Sorry if this doesn't make sense lol I don't have the right words to explain I just know how it 'feels' reading it through

 

[WilliamButlerYeats]

It isn't a forced rhyme IMHO if it fits as this does but having got into the rhythm for the first stanza you put me out of kilter going into the second, not because of the change of rhyme pattern but because of the number of words. Sorry if this doesn't make sense lol I don't have the right words to explain I just know how it 'feels' reading it through

There's also the difficulty of pronunciation of words like isn't reveal and veil. I wanted each stanza to be distinct from the previous but still maintain an easy read.

 

[bogusagain]

Am I allowed to be a heretic and say I can't stand WBY. Does that make me a poetry ignoramous or a blasphemer?

After saying that, I suppose I should give a reason so I'm going to spend sometime and think about why I can't stand him.

In the meantime I'll leave a superficial reason, I hate rhyme and WBY reminds me of architypal poetry that used to be taught in school where your eyeballs used to roll up into your head and longed for someone to shoot you or you drifted off, looking through the window on a sunny day and eyed the senior girls in their gym knickers playing netball.

 

[Tio_Narratore]

Am I allowed to be a heretic and say I can't stand WBY. Does that make me a poetry ignoramous or a blasphemer?

After saying that, I suppose I should give a reason so I'm going to spend sometime and think about why I can't stand him.

In the meantime I'll leave a superficial reason, I hate rhyme and WBY reminds me of architypal poetry that used to be taught in school where your eyeballs used to roll up into your head and longed for someone to shoot you or you drifted off, looking through the window on a sunny day and eyed the senior girls in their gym knickers playing netball.

You don't have to like poetry or any poets at all, but don't reject it because you heard from people who didn't know how to read it. No, bogusagain, it really isn't read in a sing-song fashion, slavishly following its meter and rhyme. Listenen to an audio sometime, or even try a live poetry reading (the girls may not wear their gym knickers, I'm afraid, but, as a postive note, I've known them not to wear their knickers at all).

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Am I allowed to be a heretic and say I can't stand WBY. Does that make me a poetry ignoramous or a blasphemer?

After saying that, I suppose I should give a reason so I'm going to spend sometime and think about why I can't stand him.

In the meantime I'll leave a superficial reason, I hate rhyme and WBY reminds me of architypal poetry that used to be taught in school where your eyeballs used to roll up into your head and longed for someone to shoot you or you drifted off, looking through the window on a sunny day and eyed the senior girls in their gym knickers playing netball.

Does that mean you hate me too then? My Survivor win was built on forms and I enjoyed it immensely. I don't particularly like Haiku but I'm willing to read and see the words for what they are rather than dismissing it completely

 

[bogusagain]

Does that mean you hate me too then? My Survivor win was built on forms and I enjoyed it immensely. I don't particularly like Haiku but I'm willing to read and see the words for what they are rather than dismissing it completely

Hate is a strong word as I'm always open to seduction.

 

[greenmountaineer]

Thanks for commenting chip, uys, greenmountaineer.

Going from abba to aabb was intentional, so was rhythm change from second to third stanza. I think I might need a stricter meter in the first stanza, maybe force a perfect rhyme on the fourth line.

Here's a second try, tell me what you think. Your previous comments nudged me through a long running logjam, so thanks again, even if I end up changing it again and again.


We press our faces to the glass,
With breath upon the frozen frame,
Together we can cloud the pane,
And unify each opaque mass,

Better. Another suggestion, although feel free to file it under "trivial" if that's what you think of it: I'd delete the comma in line 3 and substitute "To" for "And" that begins line 4. I think that would imply more intent and link with the next stanza better, suggesting the attempt to cloud the pane was even more "rash," the key image for me that begins the 2nd stanza. It also might suggest some impatience because lines 3&4 would read a bit faster.

 

[twelveoone]

Thanks for commenting chip, uys, greenmountaineer.

Going from abba to aabb was intentional, so was rhythm change from second to third stanza. I think I might need a stricter meter in the first stanza, maybe force a perfect rhyme on the fourth line.

Here's a second try, tell me what you think. Your previous comments nudged me through a long running logjam, so thanks again, even if I end up changing it again and again.


We press our faces to the glass,
With breath upon the frozen frame,
Together we can cloud the pane,
And unify each opaque mass,

Well that shifts it. Now how interested are you in an act of discovery, of what I perceive is an often fatal flaw in your work? In the opening statement, I gave you four major pluses.

One of the things about growth is the recognition someone does something better than you. These are four major things this guy does better than me.

It is called alliteration, assonance, rhyme and metre.

But with what I do, I am very good at. It does have to do with audience perception. It will take time, and I don't feel like wasting it. Now how interested are you in an act of discovery?
Or have you begun to glean it already?

 

[WilliamButlerYeats]

Well that shifts it. Now how interested are you in an act of discovery, of what I perceive is an often fatal flaw in your work? In the opening statement, I gave you four major pluses.

One of the things about growth is the recognition someone does something better than you. These are four major things this guy does better than me.

It is called alliteration, assonance, rhyme and metre.

But with what I do, I am very good at. It does have to do with audience perception. It will take time, and I don't feel like wasting it. Now how interested are you in an act of discovery?
Or have you begun to glean it already?

Thing is, I've only revealed failed poems, the unloved and weeded out from the past I've managed to polish a bit. Each of the poems of mine you've read have glaring errors to me. You invited me here, I thought it was to reveal my shortcomings, that which my namesake did very well that which I do poorly. I'm certainly interested in being a better poet.

 

[bflagsst]

Thing is, I've only revealed failed poems, the unloved and weeded out from the past I've managed to polish a bit. Each of the poems of mine you've read have glaring errors to me. You invited me here, I thought it was to reveal my shortcomings, that which my namesake did very well that which I do poorly. I'm certainly interested in being a better poet.

1201's just a frigid cock blocker. I like your Yeatsian poems, and it seems you accept that you're only derivative of the Great One(WGretzkyYeats)

"Teenage Candy Striper" is a good poem, "Language of my Friends" is your best, the others have little content, mostly just flowery well written shells. The end of the goose poem doesn't seem to flow right, here's my revision:

If I hadn't a single friend but a goose,
I'd choose to [tie] a noose, and let it hang;
since there's nothing friendly in a goose,
who's made to choose between a single friend,
and their brood.

 

[bflagsst]

Am I allowed to be a heretic and say I can't stand WBY. Does that make me a poetry ignoramous or a blasphemer?

After saying that, I suppose I should give a reason so I'm going to spend sometime and think about why I can't stand him.

In the meantime I'll leave a superficial reason, I hate rhyme and WBY reminds me of architypal poetry that used to be taught in school where your eyeballs used to roll up into your head and longed for someone to shoot you or you drifted off, looking through the window on a sunny day and eyed the senior girls in their gym knickers playing netball.

I can't stand your poems because they're crafted in an entirely lazy fashion. Not trying to be an overt hater, but you don't know meter, metaphor, how to tell a story, and you certainly don't know how to use surrealism. Read Joyce Mansour, any of the poems of Maria Martins, Bin Ramke. If you're honestly into prose-poetry there's Oni Buchanan, Richard Siken, not much else.

 

[bogusagain]

I can't stand your poems because they're crafted in an entirely lazy fashion. Not trying to be an overt hater, but you don't know meter, metaphor, how to tell a story, and you certainly don't know how to use surrealism. Read Joyce Mansour, any of the poems of Maria Martins, Bin Ramke. If you're honestly into prose-poetry there's Oni Buchanan, Richard Siken, not much else.

Oooo I have upset you haven't I?

You ought to read your own recommendations or if you have, read them again because your own shortcomings are obviously due to inability, not rejection of certain styles or laziness.

I can't stand your poems

You're prerogative.

But do I care?

I don't think so.

 

[twelveoone]

I can't stand your poems because they're crafted in an entirely lazy fashion. Not trying to be an overt hater, but you don't know meter, metaphor, how to tell a story, and you certainly don't know how to use surrealism. Read Joyce Mansour, any of the poems of Maria Martins, Bin Ramke. If you're honestly into prose-poetry there's Oni Buchanan, Richard Siken, not much else.

Oh, you're coming out of the closet now?
What you are is a lazy fucking moron who thinks the world revolves around you, that doesn't pay attention, but likes to call for jihads.
Read Dale Carnegie " How to win Friends and Influence People"
I quote you.
etc etc

I don't understand the question you're asking, 1201. I make a couple comments a year, I get a couple comments a year. I've no interest in being the comment queen of lit poetry. It looks like most of your 52 card pickup group has pulled up stakes and left new poems.

Otherwise read as: unless I get the maximum amount of attention on a thread[/I]. Now some set of lads has been working overtime to insure this 52 card pickup group (which isn't mine, I am not even a part of it) will not work, by mysteriously de-Hing everyone that got one in the past month or so and a wee timorous bit of ghosting with anon comments.

1201's just a frigid cock blocker.

I can understand you confusion here, predicated by the fact that I didn't fall down and worship the ground because of your so-called "promotion" of the one poem I wrote worth remembering, which didn't even have a comment for you on
I am a bit of a dick head buster. And you've been a bit of a real dick head.

And I like the odds, you don't have the number ( I count two, I'm assuming some of you are alts.) nor the intelligence.

You're move.